Cold War Mafia - GAME OVER!!

[PeregrineV]

Sorry guys, real life emergency stuff, resolved happily!

[PeregrineV]

Mikhail Bulgakov, Soviet Townie, Writer

- I have the ability to post as much as I want to in this thread. I can also write long and complex PMs to the mod regarding the game.

@Sathoris- Can you tell us why you are not the remaining Soviet scum player?

@Lowell- Passing the popcorn to you. Fullclaim please.

So, your role is basically a VT? Also, is that exactly what your role PM says for a name?

@bvoigt, I am a Vanilla Townie, but my guy was some writer. It says Mikhail Bulgakov, Soviet Townie.

[PeregrineV]

Ah, gotcha. (Do I take it when you said 'You are American with ThAdmiral' you were not in fact calling them scum buddies?) There's an outside chance of the situation being that Enigma is US Scum AS WELL AS Sathoris is Soviet (scum). The much more likely scenario is that one or other is American scum, and the other is town. When I say 'American' and 'Soviet' I'm talking about the mafia groups.

@TheFonz, ok that makes more sense then.

[PeregrineV]

You know what? I might as well just claim. Yuri Gagarin, Soviet Even-Night Vigilante. I killed Nacho and Steph. This shows that the game has at least some flavor symmetry, FWIW...one vig is an American astronaut, the other is a Soviet astronaut.

I saw this in the voting patterns, when I was looking the living players votes. The person you most voted for was the vig target the following night. I almost came out and said it, but then remembered the whole odd/even day thing.

[PeregrineV]

Enigma and PV are guarenteed scum, I can't see a scenario where they're not.

@Sathoris- Can you tell us why you are not the remaining Soviet scum player?

Stuff like this. How am I going to prove I'm not a Soviet scum? I could tell you I had no interaction with any of them. But you could read that as distancing. I could say I did have interaction with them and it would be bussing. Same can be said with any votes on them.

Besides if I get suspected of being mafia it's of being US scum. You're trying to find a scapegoat for the soviet scum spot. You've got better luck fixating on Engima, cause if you're not it, he is.

VOTE: PV

Well, I kind of think you are because of the Soviets claiming are me, bvoigt, Lowell (lying), TheFonz, and you. And I know I'm town and bvoigt are town, and I think Lowell is US scum, leaving TheFonz and you. That's where I went into behaviors, and have to go with town Fonz for now. Your best bet to convince me would be a great case on TheFonz, which you did not provide.

Not sure why we would think you are US scum. Unless you lied about your nationality. And are you saying I'm not soviet scum, then Enigma is? That he lied about his nationality?

[PeregrineV]

Scum List: Lowell, Sathoris, Thad.

VOTE: Sathoris

You notice that Lowell is voting you, but you haven't mentioned it or defended against it or anything. Just curious, why is that?

And why is your vote for Sathoris?

Why do you find ThAd to be scum?

[Enigma]

3 scum left, cross off the people who I have town reads on and the neutral reads become scum reads to fill the remaining spot.

I would hope it's pretty obvious why my vote is on Sathoris ... there is no point starting a counter wagon on any other players, and any other vote essentially guarantees I get lynched so yer..

[PeregrineV]

So Lowell is a neutral read who is promoted to scum because others are town? Does the same go for ThAd?

[ThAdmiral]

You know what? I might as well just claim. Yuri Gagarin, Soviet Even-Night Vigilante. I killed Nacho and Steph. This shows that the game has at least some flavor symmetry, FWIW...one vig is an American astronaut, the other is a Soviet astronaut.

I saw this in the voting patterns, when I was looking the living players votes. The person you most voted for was the vig target the following night. I almost came out and said it, but then remembered the whole odd/even day thing.

This more or less confirms peregrine as town in my mind. Surely he would have killed the vig if he was scum.

[Sathoris]

You know what? I might as well just claim. Yuri Gagarin, Soviet Even-Night Vigilante. I killed Nacho and Steph. This shows that the game has at least some flavor symmetry, FWIW...one vig is an American astronaut, the other is a Soviet astronaut.

I saw this in the voting patterns, when I was looking the living players votes. The person you most voted for was the vig target the following night. I almost came out and said it, but then remembered the whole odd/even day thing.

This more or less confirms peregrine as town in my mind. Surely he would have killed the vig if he was scum.

You know it's easy to say you knew who the vig was after he already claimed. Who would be the last soviet scum in your view?

[Sotty7]

8th vote count of day 6

Enigma - 3 -

Lowell, The Fonz, Sathoris

Sathoris - 3 -

ThAdmiral, bvoigt, Enigma

Not voting - 1 -

PeregrineV

• The deadline for the end of day six is Friday 27th May @ 9pm CST
  
• With
  7
  alive it takes
  4
  to lynch.

[bvoigt]

@Sathoris: That's not what I'd call "several scumtells," but oh well. I think I've made my point.

@Peregrine: So does it say "I can also write long and complex PMs to the mod regarding the game" in your role PM? (I don't mean those exact words, just the general ability.)

[Sathoris]

Well you can look at any one post of anyone and find something wrong with it to pounce on. And if you're making this decision based on that post alone than I can't help you.

[bvoigt]

I've made other points, and your play in general has been under the radar, especially earlier in the game.

[Sathoris]

This was my first game here. I had trouble adapting to the long day deadlines and the amount of posts. I mentioned this a few times earlier in the game. And if you have other other points then name them. I've explained my view on the things you already brought up.

I'll try and find some more evidence of why you should vote enigma tomorrow if work allows me, or if PV doesn't lock anyone by then.

[PeregrineV]

You know what? I might as well just claim. Yuri Gagarin, Soviet Even-Night Vigilante. I killed Nacho and Steph. This shows that the game has at least some flavor symmetry, FWIW...one vig is an American astronaut, the other is a Soviet astronaut.

I saw this in the voting patterns, when I was looking the living players votes. The person you most voted for was the vig target the following night. I almost came out and said it, but then remembered the whole odd/even day thing.

This more or less confirms peregrine as town in my mind. Surely he would have killed the vig if he was scum.

You know it's easy to say you knew who the vig was after he already claimed. Who would be the last soviet scum in your view?

Well, as per 2529, the last soviets are Lowell, Peregrine, bvoigt, Sathoris (albania), and TheFonz (poland).

I know me and bvoigt, leaving Lowell, Sathoris & TheFonz.

However, we also have 2 american scum left, as only two have been lynched so far.

The only American claims are Enigma & ThAd.

Since ThAd is town, that leaves Enigma as one of the last two American scum.

Which means, one of the "Soviets" is lying.

I pick Lowell to be lying, leaving Sathoris and Fonz.

TheFonz's play has seemed to be town, so that leaves Sathoris as the last Soviet.

[PeregrineV]

@Sathoris: That's not what I'd call "several scumtells," but oh well. I think I've made my point.

@Peregrine: So does it say "I can also write long and complex PMs to the mod regarding the game" in your role PM? (I don't mean those exact words, just the general ability.)

@bvoigt- Sorry, I'm just VT, but when I have Sathoris trying to confirm it prior to your claim, I didn't want to clarify the whole vanilla thing. But since you did claim, then it doesn't matter as much.

Anyone can write long and complex PMs to the mod regarding the game.

Actually, the details of my role have already been explored in the thread, surpisingly enough.

[Sathoris]

Well, as per 2529, the last soviets are Lowell, Peregrine, bvoigt, Sathoris (albania), and TheFonz (poland).

I know me and bvoigt, leaving Lowell, Sathoris & TheFonz.

However, we also have 2 american scum left, as only two have been lynched so far.

The only American claims are Enigma & ThAd.

Since ThAd is town, that leaves Enigma as one of the last two American scum.

Which means, one of the "Soviets" is lying.

I pick Lowell to be lying, leaving Sathoris and Fonz.

TheFonz's play has seemed to be town, so that leaves Sathoris as the last Soviet.

I believe you may well be right, except that I'm the soviet townie and you're the soviet mafia

[PeregrineV]

@TheFonz- Can you help me understand better why you are voting Engima, and then spend a page arguing math with him after trying to convince him to vote Sathoris? It's a little confusing.

[bvoigt]

I've changed my mind about Peregrine. His claim seems off.

[ThAdmiral]

You know what? I might as well just claim. Yuri Gagarin, Soviet Even-Night Vigilante. I killed Nacho and Steph. This shows that the game has at least some flavor symmetry, FWIW...one vig is an American astronaut, the other is a Soviet astronaut.

I saw this in the voting patterns, when I was looking the living players votes. The person you most voted for was the vig target the following night. I almost came out and said it, but then remembered the whole odd/even day thing.

This more or less confirms peregrine as town in my mind. Surely he would have killed the vig if he was scum.

You know it's easy to say you knew who the vig was after he already claimed. Who would be the last soviet scum in your view?

Yeah, but he did mention when he did the analysis initially that he thought he had worked out who the vig is, and he is able to explain fairly logically how he came to this conclusion.

I don't know which scumteams the remaining scum are on to be honest. People could be lying about their nationality. But you are a pretty good bet as the last soviet.

[Lowell]

At this point I'm pretty sure pere and enigma are the american scum.

Pere's claim makes no sense (as I mentioned earlier and then fonz explained), and given that he was planing on doing the green/blue soviet/american role analysis, he seems most likely to reverse his claim nationality to benefit from swithing nationalities. I read back to when the role comparisons started, and orginally pere had 11 americans and 13 soviet, meaning one american switched his claim. Then someone brought up that guevera could be soviet, and pere IMMEDIATELY changed his mind, and made it 10/14. That he was only too happy to do so makes me think he was protecting his partner (who he knew claimed "american" while he claimed "soviet") when given cover to do so with his role analysis. That he so naturally originally put che w/ the americans, giving a 11/13 split, makes me think it's what he

knew

the split should be, since he was assuming the mod balanced things at 12/12.

[The Fonz]

@ThAd: If you think flavour holds no value, then why are you voting Sathoris, the main argument against whom is the whole 'balance of numbers' thing?

@Fonz: Would you mind posting or reposting the case on Beasts/Enigma? I mostly understand your point, but would like to see it in one post.

Sure. Beasts says at the start of yesterday that he wants an Enigma or Fonz wagon. He white knights Smarg HARD, in a way that to me doesn't make a lot of sense for town - basically, a conspiracy theory like I said, and votes Enigma. My impression is that he was simultaneously distancing from a buddy, at the same time as distancing FROM a town lynch that looked very likely to go through due to the obvious strength of the case against Smargaret.

He first brings up Fonz/Enigma here:

The Fonz's most recent "pushing" on Enigma for his inability to vote for his strongest suspects without The Fonz actually voting is sending flags up as likely scumbuddies. The Fonz's argument looks to me to be a justified reason to vote someone.

My argument

was

a justified reason for voting someone. However, Smarg's behaviour was a justified reason for not even considering lynching anyone else, she looked like the most obvious scum I've ever seen. He votes Enigma, calling him my buddy. (So if Enigma ever flips, he's got the chance to scapegoat me).

Then read his ISO 32. At a point when a serious Enigma wagon is building, he, while still attacking Enigma (his first half of the post is dedicated to it) he unvotes and goes to PV, on a bullshit case involving a bogus 'scumslip' which he claimed

specifically implicated PeregrineV as Soviet

at a point where getting rid of the last Soviet was a clearly inferior course of action for town vs lynching an American, whilst still saying he thought Enigma was scum (and, by extension, American because he was calling PV Soviet).

I call his bluff on the 'Fonz is bussing Enigma' thing by voting Enigma. If he's town, or scum without enigma, he should have no problem voting for Enigma there. I call him out on this.

He replies:

You can quit with the melodramatics at any time, Fonz. I was on Enigma all day when it wasn't even a viable wagon. There were no viable wagons at the time (remember all the Feystalling, and the 'rainbow vote count' comments?). So, saying I'm pushing a counterwagon is not even close to true

See, this is just blatantly dishonest, and an attempt to play up the 'I genuinely suspect Enigma' angle as much as possible. As I said at the time, voting for the player most likely to be lynched in place of X is counterwagoning X. Once called out on it, of course, and with support for PV ebbing away, he has to go back to Enigma.
________________________________________________________________________________________

You know what? I might as well just claim. Yuri Gagarin, Soviet Even-Night Vigilante. I killed Nacho and Steph. This shows that the game has at least some flavor symmetry, FWIW...one vig is an American astronaut, the other is a Soviet astronaut.

I saw this in the voting patterns, when I was looking the living players votes. The person you most voted for was the vig target the following night. I almost came out and said it, but then remembered the whole odd/even day thing.

Yeah, I saw the same thing, hence my consistent defence of bvoigt. I mean, I wasn't sure, but it was pretty damn likely he was the vig.

__________________________________________________________________________________________

Since ThAd is town, that leaves Enigma as one of the last two American scum.

Which means, one of the "Soviets" is lying.

I pick Lowell to be lying, leaving Sathoris and Fonz.

TheFonz's play has seemed to be town, so that leaves Sathoris as the last Soviet.

Peregrine, this is important. One American mafioso must have claimed

Soviet

. Not Soviet satellite. There is a two-claim disparity between American claims and Soviet claims, the obvious explanation for which is precisely one American American claiming to be Soviet town. In the situation where you are town, Sathoris is Soviet and Lowell is American. For Lowell to be town, it would require me to have read you wrong, and you be American, while Sathoris is Soviet. I really don't think I'm that likely to be wrong, though.

Also: The Fonz. There is a space there.

@TheFonz- Can you help me understand better why you are voting Engima, and then spend a page arguing math with him after trying to convince him to vote Sathoris? It's a little confusing.

Yup. Arguing the math was simply a case of him trying to assert that it was not that unlikely a wagon of eight had no scum on it, and my counterargument was to try to demonstrate to the rest of the town that it really, really was.

I want him to vote Sathoris for the reasons that I outlined before all the math came up: I don't believe that anyone other than Sath or Enigma would be a reasonable vote today. I think you're Soviet, and therefore don't want to lynch you today, because lynching the Soviet mafia might actually be worse than lynching town. As I said, town will be in an unwinnable position unless either this lynch or Bvoigt's vigging hits American, and I'm basically certain that one of Enigma and Sathoris is American. I personally prefer Enigma, because I trust VCA and actual play more than I do setup guessing in this instance.
_______________________________________________________________
@Bvoigt: I think what you're getting at is this, no?

Mikhail Bulgakov, Soviet Townie, Writer

- I have the ability to post as much as I want to in this thread. I can also write long and complex PMs to the mod regarding the game.

@bvoigt, I am a Vanilla Townie, but my guy was some writer. It says Mikhail Bulgakov, Soviet Townie.

He appeared to claim that 'writer' was part of his actual rolename, but then went back on it. Couple this with the being dead during the cold war issue, this really, really looks like a fakeclaim to me.

__________________________________________________________________
Before anyone hammers, I want everyone to answer this: you do know what to do in a 2:1:1 endgame, right? Because it's possible we might face that tomorrow.

[The Fonz]

It's just occurred to me that I suppose lynching Soviet wouldn't be the end of the world. We would just need to insist that bvoigt not shoot unless he's 100% sure the target is mafia. That would give us a 3-2 lylo. I do think town's chances are much better if we hit American today, though.

[PeregrineV]

At this point I'm pretty sure pere and enigma are the american scum.

Pere's claim makes no sense (as I mentioned earlier and then fonz explained), and given that he was planing on doing the green/blue soviet/american role analysis, he seems most likely to reverse his claim nationality to benefit from swithing nationalities. I read back to when the role comparisons started, and orginally pere had 11 americans and 13 soviet, meaning one american switched his claim. Then someone brought up that guevera could be soviet, and pere IMMEDIATELY changed his mind, and made it 10/14. That he was only too happy to do so makes me think he was protecting his partner (who he knew claimed "american" while he claimed "soviet") when given cover to do so with his role analysis. That he so naturally originally put che w/ the americans, giving a 11/13 split, makes me think it's what he

knew

the split should be, since he was assuming the mod balanced things at 12/12.

Well, funny thing abou this is I never claimed anything really. When I took over, David Parker had already claimed everything. Hence, the reaosn for my links back to where my name and nationality were already posted.

I'm not really getting what your saying here- I really do assume the mod made it 12/12, but Che is part of the West only geographically, so at that point I don't really know if it's exactly 12/12, but it doesn't matter at this point.

For now, what matters is we know there is a Soviet mafia left, and 90% likely 2 american mafia left. Since I feel like I've pretty much identified the remaining town, that leaves you, Sathoris and Enigma. If one, two, or three of you are lying about your nationality, not sure it makes much difference, although Fonz posted something about it which I'm about to read.