Team Mafia: Pick Your Power (Game Over)

[SpyreX]

The "fact" mantra is also pretty swank.

What with me obviously saying in big bold letters those are facts and all.

ANYWHO, don't get sidetracked I want opinions about the claiming.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm uneasy about claiming. I feel like scum would gain more out of it than town would.

[Slaxx]

V/La until Sunday

[PranaDevil]

Scum would get more out of claiming at this stage, it's day freakin' two.

Also Spyrex, you presented analysis on things, and then presented the results as facts, despite them only being your opinions. Whether that was your intention I'm not sure, but that's exactly why I wanted to comment on it, as I hate that, and it always looks somewhat scummy to me.

It's like trying to claim that the information you have leads to the results you give being the results gained from the information, as opposed to you picking and choosing what to use based on your own viewpoints, which is what you did. That's what I don't like about it.

[SpyreX]

Now I could be missing something obvious but lets bounce this back and forth:

Pros:
- All claims are locked.
- Lying is a VERY risky business.
--- This means shenanigans (Kise picking Rolecop or something filled with moonbeams) is a KOS.
- Scum-possession of high PRs are watched (Vigs) neutered (RB's) because of said lying.

Cons:
- It gives scum a handy dandy kill chart.
-- This, however, is pretty much already there between either a.) having the roles they want or b.) not getting them and parsing above.

Let me know if I'm missing something.

P-Edit: Show me using the word "fact" anywhere in that post. Go ahead.

[PranaDevil]

My main issue would be that the JK'er can block the useful roles... but on second thoughts, that's instantly dismissed by the fact that the JKer would have to prove why they are doing something.

Also, pro-wise, you've missed a few.

Namely the goon cop knows exactly where to aim for, and who to completely avoid.
Any roles that somehow don't show up at all, but are known to end up used (like JKer for instance) are known to be in the vanilla groupings somewhere, and once we have naighborhoods eliminated we can narrow down where the vanillas will be.

So yeah, on second thoughts, claiming may work out well for town. I'm blaming my headache on that one.

And you haven't. But you're missing what I'm getting at. You've opened with the analysis of the votes and the picks, and are using that to make your judgement, which you're then skewing with your opinions before making them.

It would have been much more pro-town to have said "this is what that tells us as fact" and then ended with the "based on my opinions we can remove LLD from the line up based on X and Y, which leaves the following, which has myself removed for obvious reasons".

Surely you can see where I'm coming from there?

[SpyreX]

You mean the dead JKer?

None of that outside of the spoilers (unless you're using the fact people WERE on the wagons and I didn't make that up in a drunken stupor) is "fact".

"Fact" doesn't happen. "Fact" doesn't get you anywhere.

So, looking at THAT analysis and going "Ohhhhh he's painting it as facts" makes no sense ever in a mafia game.

[Kise]

I don't know, Spy. Last time I did that, it got me killed, and it got the guy asking for claims nowhere.

I had a thought that tonight's [possibly picked role] vig should claim (and not

just

to save my own skin tonight by putting the bullseye elsewhere), but then again, we'd need to know that the [possibly picked role] 3-shot RBer is on the town's side and would choose to ignore blocking that player. In fact, I think a 3-SRBer that blew their load last night should claim, as they're now VT or goon. Relatively speaking, they shouldn't be that good of a threat to NK. But the reason I think a spent 3-SRBer should claim today is in case any LIVING players were blocked, they can personally verify the legitimacy of being blocked. This, rather than the blocked players dying, and a mafia 3-SRB later claiming to have targeted them, but without the proper proof to verify.

Still, SSBF-lynch all day, every day.

[SpyreX]

Kise you are now officially an enigma.

But, we'll talk more.

[Slaxx]

omg you will never guess what role I pulledz

[PranaDevil]

You mean the dead JKer?

Derp. That solves that issue. Note to self: Open fucking eyes. Also: Learn to fucking read. Though the RB'er counts still in the same way, but my previous working out that it wouldn't work out well for scum isn't helpful for them either.

I'm still up for a claim though, so it doesn't change that.

With my stupidity out of the way, the second bit appears to be a playstyle difference then. But it's worth noting scum can be caught on facts. "Facts get you nowhere" is false when you consider I lead a town to victory solely based on facts when we hit 5 person LyLo, when I realized that the person I thought was pro-town all game could be nothing but scum when you looked at the lynch wagons. (I then was a complete bastard in the final 3 person LyLo, and went with a beauty of a gambit to secure the win, but the only fact there was what my role could do, as opposed to the end result, which was more done on chance. )

[SpyreX]

I'll be back later although this exchange has been... interesting.

And again we must be using Facts differently but that there last paragraph sure looks like its full of analysis and well-constructed opinions versus true facts. Because those are very few and far between.

[Kise]

Kise you are now officially an enigma.

I'm something like a superhero..

OH, yeah I was also thinking, in case the [possibly picked role] tracker is town, any player who is OR is in essence a VT should claim. That way, if you're seen moving at night, you can get your lip busted. Another thing I thought of was, hypothetically speaking, if someone like Prana or quadz tried to pick my same role (I thought about just being VT for teh WIFOM), confirming themselves as VT right now gives the two of them personal knowledge of what role I possess. It's not saying

what

role I have, therefore the mafia still do not know how to prioritize killing their threats. And, yeah, it cuts down on proper targets for the GC and tracker to follow - maybe even the RC - assuming those roles are town.

That reminds me.. I think one of you just slipped..

[Kise]

That reminds me.. I think one of you just slipped..

You're good.

Claim: Non-VT

Moxie.

[Slaxx]

Claim: Non-VT

[Kise]

Got damn but you were like #13!!!

[Slaxx]

I was born under a lucky star I suppose.

[Faraday]

Unvote, Vote: Faraday

No. Also how does your analysis factor in the 'hesitant' voters?

[Faraday]

I'm vt. Slaxx you lucky bastard.

[Faraday]

For Faraday and Slaxx; is it weird that Kise, quadz and Prana all weren't on the Grey wagon? Share your thoughts.

Well Prana expressed a town read of Grey, so I don't find that weird. I've no idea what quadz said about Grey or Kise for that matter. let me investigate, not that weird off hand.

[Faraday]

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go for a reminder of where your votes should be at.

I've been told to 'kill him with fire' too.

[PranaDevil]

Claim: Non-VT

No, if we're claiming, what's the role you've got? Also claim any actions you did last night.

Faraday, what role did you go for? Saying "I'm VT" is meaningless in this game, we need to know what role you went for as well so we can see if it was gone for above, so we can either believe you, or work out that someone further up is lying (Or is trying to hide a role).

[Faraday]

If we're claiming vt/non vt isn't it a good idea to NOT claim what I went for just yet? It narrows down what pr's are above (or in this case below me too).

[Slaxx]

Claim: Non-VT

No, if we're claiming, what's the role you've got? Also claim any actions you did last night.

Faraday, what role did you go for? Saying "I'm VT" is meaningless in this game, we need to know what role you went for as well so we can see if it was gone for above, so we can either believe you, or work out that someone further up is lying (Or is trying to hide a role).

I'm not doing that, sorry.

[Kise]

Now.. wait a minute.. let's not give scum ALL the info for them to manipulate.

I'm torn on this stance.. I think it works better if players from the BOTTOM portion of the draft list claim and it works its way up. NOT being selfish here. This way, if there's any scum down there, the top/town half won't reveal to them what roles aren't taken and good for them to fakeclaim.