Time Travel Mafia (Game Over)

[Doombunny9]

I'm sorry I have to do this but due to things out of my control, I won't be able to dedicate as much time to this game as I probably should and it would be best for me if I replace out.

[smargaret]

My list wasn`t random (it was a little rushed though).
Both amrun`s as grey`s stance on 1v1 tradeoffs seemed off to me, to the point they exeeded my initial case on doombunny(reactions to it helped, on all 3)
I believe(d) Kcda`s and Zingers claim
On top of the flavor-claim, the reasons for the lynch-hammer, the selfvote and the posts before seem to be consistent(wrong but consistent).
If the whole 'town should lynch me for info'thing was a trick not to get lynched(for 1 more day, as there`s no way he would have lasted longer) i doubt he would have selfvoted.

The whole (mis)lynch a VT or (mis)lynch a PR argument: agreed(was thinking the same thing)

As for Kcda`s roleclaim: 1 thing got my attention:
apart from the 'what`s so elite about a 1-shot' bodyguard, all attributes match his initial claim/joke: The Doctor (a regenerative(+/- bulletproof) JOAT with an unlimited timemachine).

This is some major fencesitting. He says they're both town and completely ignores the Amished tell - the only reason to lynch Zinger is the VT thing. This is especially weird considering that prior to Zinger claiming Trow had been very "Zingerscum!" and he just believed a VT claim? This looks like classic scum moving away from a mislynch - and while we don't know whether Zinger was a mislynch or not, we DO know that town would have no reason to back away from a lynch like this, regardless of Zinger's alignment.

RC, did you forget the Amished tell? That's why I'm pretty sure that Zinger was scum. Also, I'm pretty sure that this is a no-flip game as opposed to a lynch-janitor game because
1. I've never heard of such a thing
2. Say scum go back and nk relevant people to change the timeline so that Zinger is alive again, or say that I get nk'd tonight and a doc goes back in time to protect me n2 so I turn up alive day 4. The mod can't have flipped my alignment; that would break the game - so it must be no-flip. I asked to make sure my logic was right.

[Amrun]

Oooh, that's so fabricated. You said Trow was scum for "reasons being discussed," but now you go back and find your own reasons.

[smargaret]

Um, no. That post - and those reasons - were the source of the suspicion on Trow during the discussion phase. I just pointed out how they apply without knowing Zinger's alignment.

[Amrun]

Okay.

I re-read it, and I see what you mean. That was not clear at first and I thought you meant the actions currently in discussion. Do you understand what I thought?

[RedCoyote]

DB, you shouldn't. You should answer my question.

Amrun, smargaret has a point. I mean, we should be prepared for the very logical, if not probable, conclusion that this game is no flip.

I need to reconsider my strategy, because if that's the case then this game is going to be extremely taxing (more so than it already is), unforgiving, and emotionally draining.

2. Say scum go back and nk relevant people to change the timeline so that Zinger is alive again, or say that I get nk'd tonight and a doc goes back in time to protect me n2 so I turn up alive day 4. The mod can't have flipped my alignment; that would break the game - so it must be no-flip. I asked to make sure my logic was right.

This is very perceptive. I think I get where you're coming from, but I don't know if the full implications of this game are still sinking in for me. I mean, big picture, what do you think this means?

[Amrun]

I think we need to consider the fact that this game is no-flip, but if I really walked into that blindly, then I will be displeased.

Can people really be unlynched with nks?

[RedCoyote]

2.3.1 Each time an event changes the course of history, I will go back and revisit everything (votes and lynches, special and factional abilities; and whatever else might happen).

[GreyICE]

I'm sorry to do this guys, but I can't give a shit with no reveal. I tried, and I can't.

Replace out

[RedCoyote]

Shame on you.

[Tragedy]

Can't you answer my question first...

[Kcdaspot]

hey trag!

list?

[GreyICE]

Okay, I've decided to stay in, but I have to say quite honestly that I really wish I knew Zinger's alignment.

kcdaspot blatantly didn't follow instructions, and claimed to be using the vig tonight. Coincidentally, a scum kill is missing from day 1.

Now there'll be two kills N2? And this proves him town how exactly?

Blatantly not following instructions and this makes me want to lynch him immediately as lying scum, but I keep getting stymied by the fact that if Zinger was scum then kcdaspot is almost certainly town.

So I'm kind of fucking stuck.

kcdaspot, why the FUCK did you not vig someone night 1 like you were supposed to?

[Maxous]

RE: The Amished tell: I understand that this tell might be correct more often than not but it

does not confirm

Zinger as mafia.
It is a theory tell - possibly a succesful one in a lot of cases - but still a theory tell.

@Mr.Trow: Who

are

your main suspects as mafia in this game anyway?

[Tragedy]

1. MrTrow
2. Smarg

I'm still missing a #3.
Despite my question was left unanswered.

[Kcdaspot]

no.. i'd rather use it n2.

I felt that because of the other powers specifically my protect power, to do it n1 is useless.

in any case as of right now it is used. no matter what.

and no flips make zero sense with my protect power. I have to be sure that the person i save isn't scum. that alone implies a flip of some sort.

ffs i was counting on a flip to save another PR.

[Kcdaspot]

grey are you trying what i think you are trying?

because it's not funny.

srsly that last post does not sit right with me at all.

[GhostWriter]

no.. i'd rather use it n2.

I felt that because of the other powers specifically my protect power, to do it n1 is useless.

Why?

[GhostWriter]

Let me clarify: if you have the ability to use a time machine to go to any point in the game, I don't see how you could use your other powers as a defense for why you didn't confirm yourself as quickly as possible. Dragging it out does indeed look off.

[Kcdaspot]

... i guessed really...

I guessed that the maf who had the kill didn't have a time machine.

if i made it out... this confirms for me some things...

i have to mention... the setup itself... I have been dancing this issue for some time... but what does my role mean to town pr wise?... there has to be another PR other than me for town... I can't seem to shake the issue from my mind.

[Kcdaspot]

and that.. to not move out of the way to save my defense powers is stupid... that and there being no N0... that made my arguement for me...

craptastic i know but i thought and still think that my other powers are too powerful to just let die n1.

[imaginality]

Caught up, not yet written up - that's coming, but not 'til tomorrow.

I'm not scared off by no-reveal, if that's what we have. Admittedly, I haven't played no-reveal before so that might be foolish optimism on my part.

On this page 801 is good, 812 is good, and 819 looks a lot like fishing for PRs.

[GhostWriter]

I'm sorry, but you haven't answered a thing to me. Maybe I just can't understand what you wrote. There was a lot of pointless "..."-ing going on, in some misguided attempt to how hesitance in your thinking, or whatever, and it just seems contrived and forced. You'll live through today, but you're back to #4 on my list.

[Kcdaspot]

unfortunately that is how i think.

[MrTrow]

He says they're both town and completely ignores the Amished tell - the only reason to lynch Zinger is the VT thing.

It was mainly gut(as i wrote it last minute, while at a birthday party, so yes i missed a thing or 2) however:

Zinger: either fake claiming scum (for which VT is usually quite a weak claim (as, like you just stated, it made him a safe lynch(the outing the real thing purpose is not nearly as strong as the setup is closed, but still present)))
or a lost townie who actually believed his flip would provide usefull information(which his speach seemed to imply).
I gave him the chance to back up his claim and he did. (he self-voted, if he had saved himself by that stunt and not voting himself i`ll be after him day 2, more likely scenario though, he tries to save himself with it (fails and ends up nr2 on the lynch-block), securing (probably not only) my vote in the lynch-phase)


As for Kcda:
His quirks(pretty much every time i encountered the guy, and we shared a daytalk QT once) and his aspergur`s claim match.
His relucance to reveal this really feels like he would not do that as a scum-ploy. (if he`s scum he`s a quite powerfull one, as either vt or goon he would rather be lynched than reveal)

If i were to review this now:

grey are you trying what i think you are trying?

I agree to what i think this is supposed to imply (kcda correct me if i`m wrong on any of this)
grey`s 'displeasement' with the lack of (at least) 1 flip had better be real.
If at any point his attitute towards the no-flip is faked: his policy-lynch instantly becomes a serious consideration.
(I personally would like to add, if it doesn`t happen and a janitor-like-situation is revealed it gives him some serious town-cred, still not pleased with the tone though)
The first half applies double to Kcda: i won`t discuss it, i will push his (policy-)lynch in every game we happen to show up in together.

Currently he`s somewhat under fire for not confirming immediately: to be fair, multiple players(myself included) have advised against just going for the quick confirmation N1.

2. Say scum go back and nk relevant people to change the timeline so that Zinger is alive again, or say that I get nk'd tonight and a doc goes back in time to protect me n2 so I turn up alive day 4. The mod can't have flipped my alignment; that would break the game - so it must be no-flip. I asked to make sure my logic was right.

Good point, however:
- As every time-traveler (independent of other powers) is basically a commuter, asuming there is a doc is risky.
- Having a single confirmed townie isn`t that unacceptable (claimed innocent, by flipped cop isn`t that uncommon)
- scum pulling a similar stunt a day later to kill this doc n3(or in whatever time the doc would be hiding then) would also take you back into the grave
- a 'hidingtime' of the doctor (n2) would be revealed by that move. (asuming we`re talking about a corpse that didn`t/couldn`t timetravel)
- and last (but not least) during n2 you travel to n5, scum kills you n5(maybe they do this from n2 aswell): result, your corpse travels back(or you have 'mysteriously disappeared') and you are revealed to have died n2, the doc however will have to act n5 to get you back. It`s not that simple.

I see the reasons why a closed-flip-scenario would be 'reasonable', i disagree with the 'must be closed-flip'-conclusion.

Can people really be unlynched with nks?

Yes they can, changing who votes (by changing who is alive to vote) can change the lynch. (which is why you still have to keep sending in your lists after death (rule 1.2.1 and 1.3.3))It can`t possibly bring back zinger (as there is no N0) daykills might (but with the numbers involved are extremely unlikely, his 'unconfirmed alliance'+ best case if revived is VT, makes it not even worth considering).

As for the 'janitored zinger', independent of 'whether he was scum or not', we could really do without that polarisation of the town based on info we`re probably never going to get.