Mafia MetaMafia ~ Game Over!

[VP Baltar]

We're boosting me because I'm going to win this shit for town. There is a limited few of us that have been dragging the rest of you kicking and screaming to victory, so I don't expect that to change. Also, I like how you keep moving the goalposts re: my domains ooba.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Scum would want VP's role eliminated as soon as possible regardless of being town or SK at this point, they can't afford to have him killing as many times as he claims he can. If VP is lying SK playing to a wincon that is contrary to any town plan, it will very quickly become apparent to the town and VP likely won't make it through an endgame situation.

Even entertaining the notion of lynching VP today is something incredibly stupid that only scum would support.

Sigh ... I don't even ...

At this point scum's numbers are GREATLY diminished. They likely have at most 3 members remaining, and more likely 2. The is a sizeable amount of Town out there waiting to get a bullet.

The scum are just as likely to want VPB-SK around to help clearly Town player quickly. Otherwise the lack of additional kill each Night extends the game and makes Town much more likely of PoEing them. Furthermore chances of them being killed by VPB-SK are limited just based on numbers alone.

Look at Return to Liten. ThAdmiral was a claimed Vig would could possibly have been a Serial Killer. He was outed basically Day 1. The scum team (which I was a part of) kept him around and didn't even Role-block him Day 2 on until we came down to a single member much later in the game. Even if he was a Serial Killer he was doing Scum's work for them ... he kept killing of Town players.

He turned out to be a Vig but we didn't know that until he died. He killed at least 4 Town players for the scum team an was helpful in getting scum to a 3-way LYLO (that we lost, but not the point) when scum had lost half of their 4 man team to lynches by Night 2.

So no ... your reasoning isn't good.

[VP Baltar]

How many scum have you been responsible for the death of, MoI? Thought so.

[MagnaofIllusion]

How many scum have you been responsible for the death of, MoI? Thought so.

Well had I been handed a killing role probably more ... but I got weeeeeeeeeeee balanced blandness.

But continue to flail around. You are losing this game as SK VPB. Just accept it.

[ooba]

We're boosting me because I'm going to win this shit for town.

There is a limited few of us that have been dragging the rest of you kicking and screaming to victory, so I don't expect that to change.

Also, I like how you keep moving the goalposts re: my domains ooba.

Is this a character flaw of yours - insult people whenever they're on to you? Dissed my reads earlier in the day when I had Magna\you listed on my scum reads. (For the record, while you had a useless quadz vote for the entire day and did nothing with it - I called hito-Quadz way before you did.)

Hell, I added Will to that cause there is no way I'm helping you when you're clearly scum who can't even keep his claims straight. Vi made it completely damn obvious that N0 worship means N1 no cast. With a vig at three cast, there is no way I'm worshiping to miss a chance at a shot on scum on N1.

[VP Baltar]

Again, don't care about my own death and it makes zero sense for me to have claimed anything if I were the SK. Believe it or not, I'm not terrible at this game MoI. If you believe I'm SK, then that's your choice and I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. It would be absolutely impossible for me to win as SK at this point. Therefore, I will shoot some scum and then die. That should be something you find agreeable if you're town. Yes?

@ooba - I've found your reads to be terrible throughout the game (Plum-town being the worst), but I wasn't giving you shit because you were innocuously wrong. At this point, messing up me shooting the rest of the scum is something I'm actively against. I'll play full ABR here and try to kill all the scum for my own glory and bragging rights. I'm a character actor if you'd like. Learn to see the big picture my friend.

[sottyrulez]

Scum would want VP's role eliminated as soon as possible regardless of being town or SK at this point, they can't afford to have him killing as many times as he claims he can. If VP is lying SK playing to a wincon that is contrary to any town plan, it will very quickly become apparent to the town and VP likely won't make it through an endgame situation.

Even entertaining the notion of lynching VP today is something incredibly stupid that only scum would support.

Sigh ... I don't even ...

At this point scum's numbers are GREATLY diminished. They likely have at most 3 members remaining, and more likely 2. The is a sizeable amount of Town out there waiting to get a bullet.

The scum are just as likely to want VPB-SK around to help clearly Town player quickly. Otherwise the lack of additional kill each Night extends the game and makes Town much more likely of PoEing them. Furthermore chances of them being killed by VPB-SK are limited just based on numbers alone.

Look at Return to Liten. ThAdmiral was a claimed Vig would could possibly have been a Serial Killer. He was outed basically Day 1. The scum team (which I was a part of) kept him around and didn't even Role-block him Day 2 on until we came down to a single member much later in the game. Even if he was a Serial Killer he was doing Scum's work for them ... he kept killing of Town players.

He turned out to be a Vig but we didn't know that until he died. He killed at least 4 Town players for the scum team an was helpful in getting scum to a 3-way LYLO (that we lost, but not the point) when scum had lost half of their 4 man team to lynches by Night 2.

So no ... your reasoning isn't good.

^ That sounds similar to an argument I made as scum in a mini game when I was all alone against a vig a long long time ago.

Vig shots are basically extra lynches for the town, there's no reason to cede control of the killing to scum at this point.

Consequently, VP's death benefits players like you, plum, magua, and rayfrost the most who may happen to otherwise manage to talk your way out of the rope. Forgive me if I'm not exactly comfortable with the idea of people arguing for an outcome that benefits their own self preservation.

[Plum]

meh, so I messed up with my N0 action. Regardless, I still killed scum and I'm still town. If another person vigged hito, I'm sure they would have countered me, yeah?

I'm not doubting your Hito kill. I never did. I think you as SK killed Hito and I've made that pretty clear. But if you planned to Worship yourself and Cast Night 1 (and you of all people I doubt wouldn't notice the bit the Mod put in bright red letters regarding Night Actions) you'd have noted that in your claimed actions and described that you went with a plan B Night 1.

Sotty - if that's the way you want to look at it, fine. But the risk of powering VPB-SK is too great. Furthermore VPB should not be made into a PGO with Casts or whatnot as the plan went (protect Ooba instead!). If you want to try to lynch scum and leave VPB for later at least

don't boost VPB for extra kills

. He's going to take advantage of it to kill anyone he can get away with. Given our relative amount of power compared to the number and power of scum left given their decimation over the last Day/Night cycle, though, letting VPB kill as many players as he can - and because he is SK he will be aiming for the players he actually thinks are Town of the viable Vig-kills, or claiming Redirect, or hell, getting Redirected (all distinct possibilities and moreso because he's SK) - is getting rid of Town power and Worship-juice quickly when it's more viable to put through the lynches as Normal and gain the benefit of the mechanics to confirm and solidify the Town's position. With only the Mafia kill to deal with in all likelihood (unless we screw up and mass-worship scum) and no SK to deal with, that's viable. With an SK given the freedom to kill as he pleases it isn't. Because the Mafia are weakened, cutting off chunks of Townies, even the ones who might be under lynch pressure anyway, is

not

the better option.

If you're SK you won't be shooting scum. You'll be gunning for Town. Hell, you've done a fai amount of trying to make me look like lolflailscum where I'm not. So please, don't patronize me by asking me to trust you to shoot scum and die as SK. I don't trust you to do either if you can avoid it.

[VP Baltar]

you are lolflailscum and have been all game? Your play here is basically identical to your scum play in Mafia Holographica. The idea of VPB will kill anyone he can get away with is dumb. Even if I managed to gain my triple vig tonight (which I wouldn't and suggested I only take the double to out more scumz), I'd never have the numbers to win. How are you incapable of understanding that?

Also, to ooba, you need to realize that even if you don't like the personality I approach this game with, that doesn't make me scum. Rise above such a narrow approach as likability = town.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Again, don't care about my own death and it makes zero sense for me to have claimed anything if I were the SK.

Believe it or not, I'm not terrible at this game MoI.

If you believe I'm SK, then that's your choice and I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. It would be absolutely impossible for me to win as SK at this point. Therefore, I will shoot some scum and then die. That should be something you find agreeable if you're town. Yes?

And you know what .. I'm not terrible at this game either. Yet all you've done is said that repeatedly.

Yes it would be impossible for you to win as a Serial Killer. Do I believe you will simply go quietly into the Night? Nope not at all. You'll do everything you can to work into a position where you can screw Town over. At least if you are playing to win. And that starts with not shooting the few scum we have left and thinning out Town.

I'm agreeable to you dying ... absolutely. But I'm not going to vote for myself and am not going to flail around desperately trying to find any old alternate wagon to save my own hide.

You in my mind are not Town. No reason for me to not push for your lynch.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Vig shots are basically extra lynches for the town, there's no reason to cede control of the killing to scum at this point.

Consequently, VP's death benefits players like you, plum, magua, and rayfrost the most who may happen to otherwise manage to talk your way out of the rope. Forgive me if I'm not exactly comfortable with the idea of people arguing for an outcome that benefits their own self preservation.

VPB's not a vig but continue to think that if you want.

Also continue to think I'm trying to flail to prevent my own death. It's far from the truth but once you see my flip you can reassess what your Confirmation Bias is telling you. I've said exactly what I believe.

[VP Baltar]

Also, I like the fear tactics, Plum ....here comes the redirect claim! Oh noez! I hear the Bush clan is looking for staffers to make a 2012 run, you should sign up.

I'm agreeable to you dying ... absolutely. But I'm not going to vote for myself

Then vote Plum...guarantee you I don't make it beyond tomorrow night. And I've been calling you terrible because your play the last two times I've seen you is atrocious...sorry, bro. It is what it is. I think you're in a slump and you've been playing p. badly and way too arrogantly lately. Like it or lump it. I just call it as I see it.

[ooba]

Also, to ooba, you need to realize that even if you don't like the personality I approach this game with, that doesn't make me scum. Rise above such a narrow approach as likability = town.

Really? It's a tell I noticed. Nothing about the
- Botched claims
- The fact that you'd rather lynch Plum over Magna after his claim set-up a 1:1 with you (sans a town-RB who didn't claim)
Nice try - trying to discredit all that with a "likability=town"

[sottyrulez]

I'm not buying super powerful VP serial killer that can quickly win as SK with these insane powers he has claimed.

If anything, if he's a serial killer he's lying about the number of kills he can perform and is going to have to go a lot deeper into the game with a lot of excuses to the point where I can't see a situation where we wouldn't be lynching him eventually if he managed to live that long. (I simply don't accept that he would have access to abilities that would allow him to kill that many people as an SK)

As for redirects and being redirected. Is that really a possibility that you want to sell us on as a legitimate theory with no evidence that redirection exists thus far? Claims like this only make us like our vote on you more.

The fears, I am not buying into them.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Then vote Plum...guarantee you I don't make it beyond tomorrow night. And I've been calling you terrible because your play the last two times I've seen you is atrocious...sorry, bro. It is what it is. I think you're in a slump and you've been playing p. badly and way too arrogantly lately. Like it or lump it. I just call it as I see it.

Just as I call you like I see it ... easily discovered scum with a personality based tell. Like it or lump it.

But I'm not voting someone I don't think is scum simply to because it is a more popular wagon. That's base survivalism. I'd rather go down swinging at the player I feel strongly is not Town and perhaps have my reads considered going forward.

[VP Baltar]

The idea of a botched claim is stupid. I claimed what I did. Turns out I messed up...it's not unheard of, nor would it have mattered for my abilities anyhow. Re: 1v1 - I've told you why I disagree on that. Finally, my point was that I do think you're getting confused because you don't like how I play. I understand I can be a bit rough around the edges when I'm trying to get people to wise up and make smart choices, but being aggressive and trying to win =/= scum traits necessarily.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm not buying super powerful VP serial killer that can quickly win as SK with these insane powers he has claimed.

As for redirects and being redirected. Is that really a possibility that you want to sell us on as a legitimate theory with no evidence that redirection exists thus far? Claims like this only make us like our vote on you more.

Your choice.

Also, what the hell are you talking about redirects and legitimate theories about? Clarity is tech.

[ooba]

Also finishing this. Would like others to claim.
"Solism" as one of their domains?
- Yes(1): VPB
- No(7): Magna, ooba, Demonic Angel, Magua, sottyrulez, Parama, Plum
- Unclaimed(6): AlmasterGM, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Faraday, Nobody Special, RayFrost, Seraphim

[sottyrulez]

I'm not buying super powerful VP serial killer that can quickly win as SK with these insane powers he has claimed.

As for redirects and being redirected. Is that really a possibility that you want to sell us on as a legitimate theory with no evidence that redirection exists thus far? Claims like this only make us like our vote on you more.

Your choice.

Also, what the hell are you talking about redirects and legitimate theories about? Clarity is tech.

Read Plum's post.

[VP Baltar]

I don't see the point in outting more domains now that you've got both of mine. There is no guarantee a two living players share any single domain.

[Magua]

Also finishing this. Would like others to claim.
"Solism" as one of their domains?
- Yes(1): VPB
- No(7): Magna, ooba, Demonic Angel, Magua, sottyrulez, Parama, Plum
- Unclaimed(6): AlmasterGM, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Faraday, Nobody Special, RayFrost, Seraphim

Given that VPB has claimed his other domain, I'm curious why you care about this?

[ooba]

The idea of a botched claim is stupid. I claimed what I did. Turns out I messed up...it's not unheard of, nor would it have mattered for my abilities anyhow. Re: 1v1 - I've told you why I disagree on that. Finally, my point was that I do think you're getting confused because you don't like how I play. I understand I can be a bit rough around the edges when I'm trying to get people to wise up and make smart choices, but being aggressive and trying to win =/= scum traits necessarily.

Don't worry - I am not the type of player who votes because of aggressive\abrasive behavior or playstyle. (Case in point: After the earlier barbs in the day, I believed you were town after the kill hito claim and didn't let anything else cloud my judgement. It was your reaction to Magna's claim which piqued my scum-dar)

P-edit: @VP, @Magua: Nobody having Solism is probably a point for SK-Solism theory of mine.

[VP Baltar]

Again, I reiterate, whether you think I'm SK or not is irrelevant. If I am, then you're simply going to have an easier time winning as town. I can't win if I was, and I have demonstrated I'm out to kill scum. Use common sense.

[sottyrulez]

P-edit: @VP, @Magua: Nobody having Solism is probably a point for SK-Solism theory of mine.

Let's say he is the only one with Solism, that's like the mod pointing a big giant finger at who the SK is. Mods usually help SKs, not hinder them.

[VP Baltar]

Also, I would have a fake claim better than Solism. derp. Trust the people who have played Vi games before.