Mini 1141 - Frogs Mafia 2 - GAME, SET, MATCH

[implosion]

Wait.

Unvote

Mod, I voted Bella. Is t a mistake that it isn't in the count?

[Apokalyptika]

Mod: I unvted Amrun a bit ago, ad my voes both reside on implosion.

[MrBuddyLee]

Amrun-Bella makes sense.

* Failure to critically analyze one anothers' play
* Amrun made efforts to tie me to Tuncali but not mozamis for coaching
* Amrun's been loose and sloppy with her play, accusing almost everyone at one time or another
* Amrun made overreaching efforts to draw attention to her "spat" with kunkstar
* Bella ain't done sheeeit
* this:

Yeah. You just ruled out minimum 2, maximum 1 people as non "important" PRs, narrowing the field for PR-huntig scum... I don't see any town motivation for that at all.

And you haven't even had time to talk to her yet!

(seemed to know bella's slot hadn't talked to meransiel yet (N0), though this could also imply amrun-meransiel)

* this hyperattentiveness:

You know, guys... I've been thinking for some time about the balance in this game... and, as close to the nightphase as it might be, I think Bella should die.

Why Bella, Merensial?

Outside chance of implosion being scum at this point.. his reasons for his votes thus far:
* Meransiel was illogical
* mozamis, for being tied to Meransiel
* nopoint, for MBL's case
* Bella, for this http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p2957125 post, says everything else she's said is null

Really weak performance by implosion. And his play and Amrun's play have been full of excuses, posturing about why they aren't posting. I especially like this:

Okay. I'm not going to give a full list of reads at this point because night is really soon and I don't want the scum having any extra information.

Amrun saw implo as null-to-town and never touched him again. implo-wishy washy townread on Amrun.

my gut also says that Amrun is town based on some of the logic that she's used.

Please explain.

implo clearing Meransiel the way he has (and me to an extent) makes less sense unless implo-Meransiel is the scumteam.
@implo, when and why specifically did you shift opinion on Meransiel? You wanted him lynched alongside mozamis, now you're so confident he's town that you don't need to reread him.

[Amrun]

We didn't have a n0 on this game, did we? Even so, I meant that we hadn't had a proper night yet.

I have been trying to scumhunt... That leads to accusing people.

Bella slot has been hard to read because it NEVER POSTS. Nevertheless, I have a town read on it, especially since I suspect Merensiel currently.

My schedule is going to clear up soonish and I plan to do some ISOs soon and report my findings.

[Meransiel]

We didn't have a n0 on this game, did we? Even so, I meant that we hadn't had a proper night yet.

I have been trying to scumhunt... That leads to accusing people.

Bella slot has been hard to read because it NEVER POSTS. Nevertheless, I have a town read on it, especially since I suspect Merensiel currently.

My schedule is going to clear up soonish and I plan to do some ISOs soon and report my findings.

It is true that both members of a neighbor team can't be scum (fucking DUH), but if I'm really scum, why do you even BELIEVE that statement? Do not forget that there are fewer scum than town, so BEST CASE scenario, in case I was scum, would be this:

*You guys lynch Bella.
*Flips town
*I get lynched

Comprendre?

[Amrun]

So is this your way of convincing us to lynch Bella?

[Meransiel]

No, I'm not even voting Bella. I was questioning your read on me from that perspective.

[Meransiel]

As a side-note, I forgot to explain that statement I made about there being more town than scum...which is relevant...so here's the point:

Town is more likely to mislynch for the mere sake of info than scum is to off their partners to keep themselves hidden, or gambit.

Which...exempts scotsmany, lest he's not THAT reckless, and, frankly, myself.

[Amrun]

I am not advocating a Bella lynch, so I do not understand.

I find you scummy so I want to lynch you.

[MrBuddyLee]

@Amrun, please make your complete case against Meransiel.

[Meransiel]

Amrun is playing the deaf card. I was defending MYSELF. Now go back and read what I have written.

[Amrun]

I read it again, and I think you are trying to say that "if I was scum, I would not have pushed for a Bella lynch."

That's a crappy defense, and stated in a convoluted manner at that.

I never listen to "I wouldn't have as scum.". Such WIFOM.

As I said, MBL, in the next couple of days I am going to do ISOs, build cases on my suspects, etc.

But not today. Today, I am travelling.

[Meransiel]

Ah, forget it, rest my case.

[MrBuddyLee]

build cases on my suspects, etc.

Doesn't this usually work in the opposite order? When you're town, at least.

[Shanba]

Apologies - fixing the vote count

Again, sorry for all the lack of activity and stuff. Prodding scot, ces and bella

[Amrun]

MBL, what do you mean? You all can't see into my head and I have to express myself clearly. I am too busy and scatterbrained (and on my phone) to express myself correctly and clearlly now, but I'll give it a go when I can.

I have already said that much f my suspicion of Merensiel relies on her having seeming foreknowledge of people's alignments (like Apok's).

[scotmany12]

I have fallen under the weather. Limited access for a day or two. Hopefully i'll feel better soon.

[implosion]

I should, at last, have a normal schedule. Yay.

* Meransiel was illogical
* mozamis, for being tied to Meransiel
* nopoint, for MBL's case
* Bella, for this viewtopic.php?p=2957125#p2957125 post, says everything else she's said is null

Second reason is completely wrong. I thought they were both scummy, but at the point when I changed my vote, I thought mozamis was scummier than Meransiel. If the only reason I thought someone was scum was because I thought someone else was scum, I wouldn't change my vote.

Really weak performance by implosion. And his play and Amrun's play have been full of excuses, posturing about why they aren't posting. I especially like this:

Okay. I'm not going to give a full list of reads at this point because night is really soon and I don't want the scum having any extra information.

You especially like it? Explain, please. And my activity has only been really bad recently because of finals - I should be active for at least the next 3 weeks. You're also drastically understating most of my reasons for voting - my votes aren't as "weak" as you are making them out to be when they are viewed in the context of my actual posts.

my gut also says that Amrun is town based on some of the logic that she's used.

Please explain.

Part of it is just the general way in which she's been arguing things, which is in most of her posts... a specific example would be ISO 25. Or ISO 51. The process of thought looks like it comes from town. It could be a meta thing similar to my gut townread on Tuncali, but I don't think so. I guess the thought process looks genuine.

@implo, when and why specifically did you shift opinion on Meransiel? You wanted him lynched alongside mozamis, now you're so confident he's town that you don't need to reread him.

I distinctly remember Meransiel's posts becoming less scummy at some point. Apparently around my ISO 16. Like post 409. Around there, his posts lose the terrible logic that they had before and start looking townish (like 409).

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Hey hey, let's lynch MBL.

[Apokalyptika]

Unvote: implosion, Vote: MBL

Also, I'm deeply sorry, but I will have to ask for replacement. If ever I'm on again and you're running a game, feel free to PM me asking to replace in.

[MrBuddyLee]

Second reason is completely wrong. I thought they were both scummy, but at the point when I changed my vote, I thought mozamis was scummier than Meransiel.

implosion, when I read your posts looking for reasons behind your votes, I didn't find much if anything. Which surprised me, because on the surface you seemed interested and engaged for much of the game. Then I looked more carefully and you actually didn't give much in the way of concrete reasons for votes.
On mozamis:

mozamis is also scummy

mozamis contradicts himself then justifies it by saying contradiction and bad logic isn't a scumtell.

Meransiel and mozamis are still both scummy as hell

I don't think that it's nearly as major as anything Meransiel and mozamis are saying

I'm definitely for a kill on either mozamis or Meransiel

I actually like Meransiel's vote on mozamis. It makes sense with how Meransiel's been acting, even if I still find it odd that Meransiel has been suspicious of mozamis without actually really calling him out until now. I still think they're both scum, but mozamis is climbing higher than Meransiel.

Incredibly thin on reasoning. Granted, that's how CES plays, but that's his MO, and you said a lot without saying much of anything about mozamis, and still managed to slide your vote on over to him.

I also wasn't able to find anything concrete when I looked for reasons why you shifted on Meransiel. You originally voted him for being illogical, which ain't a great reason.

If you had other reasons, they weren't ever stated, and scum benefits way more than town by being off the record on these kinds of things.

[MrBuddyLee]

Hey hey, let's lynch MBL.

Are you skipping what I'm posting because your mind's made up, or do you just not see any merit in it?

[implosion]

MBL, if you're only talking about my mozamis vote, then first of all - you're ignoring some of what I've posted. Second of all, it was common talk how and why mozamis was scummy; I looked at mozamis, saw nothing making sense, and voted. Everyone understood that mozamis was making no sense. I guess you could say that the reason for the mozamis vote was so obvious (and that there were very few if any disagreeing that mozamis was scummy) that there was little need for me to explain it in depth.

The shift in Meransiel was more of a feeling in his posts, that they were becoming less illogical. I guess I didn't really elaborate on it because he was just looking more like town, it was mostly a gut based thing at the time. I only recently looked back and found the specific reasons why he was looking better. It was also that his posts weren't as illogical.

Also, I explained a while ago why bad logic is beneficial to the scum (see my ISO 3).

[Meransiel]

Hey hey, let's lynch MBL.

Waiting for a punchline.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

The dude's scum.