Mafia MetaMafia ~ Game Over!

[quadz08]

First, you can't stockpile Faith. Checked with Vi on N0 on that one.
Second, yeah, which makes it more difficult for a) scum to pick a kill and b) for me to pick what their kill is.
Third, AGM, did you READ D1? Seriously. Almost every damn player called her town. And besides, like I said, she can read me better than anyone else on the site. You know this, you were in Mordor.

[hitogoroshi]

Magua's right on the money re: Quadz. Scum probably have one or two abilities they saved up to use N1, and then a killer. Scum quadz being one of these abilities, to neighborize someone who is probably the singular best person at reading him? yeahno.

N0 worship claim is probably fine, but I REALLY think town should be avoiding any other claiming, at least in the short term.

Also cool with Gamma's order, which puts VV next.

Magua, DDD:

Agree or disagree with this statement: "A player with over 3 faith N1 who worships one or both of Justice or Balance should claim their domains and N1 faith."

DDD is almost certainly town for reasons I'm not sharing. Just accept it.

Parama is still where the votes should go.

Vote: Parama

I also don't like the VPB side of the VPB-DDD interactions. Getting someone to seek your approval is a great way to get a sneaky town read from them, and his early "AH. ALREADY FEEL BETTAH ABOUT YA MATE" seems a little artificial.

some townies: Gamma, Faraday, DDD, quadz, Magua, ooba (unless the Faith totals say otherwise)
some maybetownies: MoI, NS, plum, agm, ray

some scums: parama, VPB
some maybescums: sottyrulez, vv

---

Shot/Pwned/Inexplicibly mutated

Inexplicibly mutated by far strikes me as the most likely third party kill flavor. Suggesting a non-chaotic sk. Sadly can't read much into it read-wise - I'd be nervous of a cop as an anti-town regardless of where I was on their reads list.

Pwned seems like the most likely town-aligned flavor of the three, but what the fuck kind've townie would kill Equinox? Duplicity is easily the most likely vig target, but even he was pretty town. Ugh. Maybe scum have an extra kill they all jumped on? If kills are cheap enough that they can grab them with little to no town influence (e.g without needing to fakeclaim a town pr to get worshippers) that is the baddest of news bears. I'm just gonna hope one of those was a vig I guess. (don't actually let me know if you are a vig >>)

Worth looking into both duplicity and Equinox's scumreads:

Null - MagnaofIllusion, Debonair Danny DiPietro, ooba, Plum*, VasudeVa, hitogoroshi, VP Baltar, Duplicity
Scum - quadz08, Parama*

VP Baltar: Fencesitting, lack of active attempts at scumhunting and extreme degree of fluff posting.
Hito: Excessive amount of setup specultion without any real conclusion reached from it, it reads as an attempt to seem contributive over anything else.
Plum: Has really only addressed a few players posts in the game, has shown intention to tunnel towards Parama without going into her reads elsewhere.
Quadz: Overdefensiveness when one vote was placed on him, lack of any real contribution.

Equinox seems the most likely scumkill of the three.

Oh. Hi, Parama.

[Gammagooey]

HITO WHAT THE HELL YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE MISGUIDED TOWN BUT YOU'RE NOT VOTING FOR QUADZ GODAMNIT

So I had to leave to take my friend home to their apartment so I couldn't express very LENGTHILY HOW SCUM QUADZ IS.

NEIGHBORIZING TO "SAVE A MISLYNCH"? NOT EVEN BOTHERING TO TAKE A SMALL RISK TO SAVE SOMEONES GODAMN LIFE? CLAIMING CHAOTIC GODAMN EVIL?

There is no reason why anyone should be voting someone that isn't quadz.
I think I'm more confident that he's scum than anyone I've ever played with, with the possible exception of that Amished/VPB hydra in Alliance Initiative.
not doccing anyone with a claimed cop around is beyond terrible, wanting to save a mislynch isn't town thought at godamn ALL.
Quadz is scum. There will be absolutely no other lynch and I don't even want to wait for the worships to be finished being claimed before he dies.

I don't think I have any more words.
wait.
GODAMN.
okay now I'm done.

[hitogoroshi]

so what, scum decided n0 "kay let's make sure quadz can get his neighborize off tomorrow. someone worship his domains"

???

if I was running serious chance of being a d2 mislynch I'd take the neighborize over the doc + possible jailkeep (and mina and ooba both smell lawful) if I thought it'd save me. I don't quite have a singer but Mina I've talked to on AIM enough.

I think maybe you're coming from the perspective of forgetting how fucking terrible it is being a groomed mislynch. when's the last time you've been misylnched?

[singersigner]

Honestly, I think he's telling the truth. I think he knew that if I could get a better read on him, it would benefit him in the long run. Plus, I mean, we know each other. If we really are on the same team, we'd operate that much more cohesively, which works that much better for town.

[Faraday]

ITT we try to argue if quadz is a retard or if he's scum (protip it's the latter)

[Gammagooey]

No.
Fuck your setup speculation.
Scum VERY VERY EASILY could have decided to have 2-3 people worshipping spread out and 2-3 people not action and rely on the town to power them AND have the benefit of actually not fucking risking getting caught because of n0 shit.

I don't know what the hell you're smoking that you or ANYONE ELSE would think that trying to save yourself over OTHER TOWNIER PEOPLE would be a good idea.
I've been mislynched exactly once, in powerful wizard mafia.

Also, there's something else pointing to it being a fakeclaim but it requires him and someone else to be scum together. Which they are so it's all good.

[Gammagooey]

I will seriously trade every last town point I have for you two to vote quadz right now.

[Gammagooey]

Jesus plus he didn't even MENTION the chaotic evil stuff while Nicki Minaj was going on about that even though to him it would make PERFECT SENSE for some evil players to be town and for NM to be asking about it

[Faraday]

Jesus plus he didn't even MENTION the chaotic evil stuff while Nicki Minaj was going on about that even though to him it would make PERFECT SENSE for some evil players to be town and for NM to be asking about it

Calm down. He's not escaping the noose.

[Gammagooey]

Faraday I can't handle this.
quadz is screaming scum in every way possible and people all are SETUP SPECULATION SCUM DO THIS NO MATTER WHAT and AUGH.

[hitogoroshi]

No.
Fuck your setup speculation.
Scum VERY VERY EASILY could have decided to have 2-3 people worshipping spread out and 2-3 people not action and rely on the town to power them AND have the benefit of actually not fucking risking getting caught because of n0 shit.

Yes, this is what probably happened.

And the 2-3 no actioning are in all likelihood the GOOD prs. Guy with the permanent neighborize? Probably would be worshipping N0.

I don't know what the hell you're smoking that you or ANYONE ELSE would think that trying to save yourself over OTHER TOWNIER PEOPLE would be a good idea.
I've been mislynched exactly once, in powerful wizard mafia.

Obviously if Quadz knew 100% that he'd protect someone/not jailkeep them. Do you think you could call the shot N1? I know my guesses were wrong at any rate.

I've been mislynched recently (ongoing) and in the recently completed Storm of Swords I was a potential mislynch for a lot of the time. You don't just think "la de da just gonna herp around and hope for the best." You focus on showing that you're Town as quickly as possible.

quadz is screaming scum in every way possible and people all are SETUP SPECULATION SCUM DO THIS NO MATTER WHAT and AUGH.

Hypothetical. You have Quadz's claimed PM and you're scum who no-worshiped N0. What do you do N1?

[Gammagooey]

probably protect a non-lawful member of the scumteam and claim to have protected someone else. But I'm not quadz.

[Gammagooey]

Personally I think it's more likely that he DOESN'T have the doc ability and that's just part of the fakeclaim though.

[Gammagooey]

Also, let's say quadz has a redirect as his 4 faith ability instead of a vig.
Would you think it would be worth it as scum to have him no worship and hope that town give him enough to redirect, and if not he still has a neighborize backup action?

[hitogoroshi]

I actually would've aimed at Minaj (naive on chaotic strongly implies a lawful cop) as scumquadz but regardless.

The point is, pretty much fucking ANYTHING would be better than scum neighborizing. To call him scum you have to say "I think he's lying about any useful cheap abilities". And yet,

simultaneously

, he's on the waiting half of the scumteam instead of the worshipping. All to neighborize someone...who can probably read him extremely well?

Also, let's say quadz has a redirect as his 4 faith ability instead of a vig.
Would you think it would be worth it as scum to have him no worship and hope that town give him enough to redirect, and if not he still has a neighborize backup action?

First off, vig seems better than a redirect, so surely this line of thought works even better assuming it really is a vig? that's a pointless line of thought tho so whatever, just making conversation

Regardless, the one thing I DON'T see the scum doing is dealing in maybes. If scum have a sweet 4 faith ability, they had one no-cast and four worships. Especially with how learning about faith turned out to work.

[Gammagooey]

Okaaaay then let's say that quads shares a domain with the guy that has an awesome cast at 2-3. Assuming 5-6 scum would you have quadz no-cast since they'd both be able to get the benefits and it would make quadz look a little townier to neighborize someone?

MY POINT WITH ALL THIS silliness is that you're looking at one possibility and going that's what happened. When there are ALSO possibilities that could have quadz be a scum neighborizer who neighborized his wife for townpoints, and you're letting him off the hook despite his play being literally the scummiest in the entire game by a very very large margin.
I am not going to unvote him for a godamn POSSIBILITY, when every bit of his play looks like scum scumming it up with his scums who love scumming in the scumscum.

[Magua]

Gamma: You need to stop with the hyperventilation. Seriously. Now, riddle me this: is singersigner town or scum?

[Magua]

Magua, DDD:

Agree or disagree with this statement: "A player with over 3 faith N1 who worships one or both of Justice or Balance should claim their domains and N1 faith."

Erm. Are you trying to tell if Justice/Balance got juiced by scum? Because of ooba's claim?

I think a better way to go about that is, seeing as he's already claimed his domains, we should ask him:

@ooba:

How much faith did you have N1?

[Magua]

Doublepost: Scum almost certainly have daytalk because the neighbors have daytalk, and VPB's #681 is almost certainly a scumslip.

VOTE: VP Baltar

[Demonic Angel]

LOL NO WE ARE LYNCHING QUADZ

ALL OTHERS CAN COME AFTER
ESPECIALLY HITO

MAN THIS LINE IS GETTING LONG.

@Magua: I don't see how VP daytalk thing is a scumtell... Especially since he played in the other Vi games.

[RayFrost]

Quadz is town, the argument that he's scum is pitiful. The pushes on him are 90% "QUADZ IZ R SCUM, VOET HIM NAO" and 10% remotely valid stuff. I can guarantee you that scum are on this wagon. GUARANTEE.

[RayFrost]

Before I forget:

Vote: Faraday

[Demonic Angel]

I LIKE HOW ALL MY SCUMREADS ARE TRYING TO DIVERT THIS WAGON.

LOLOL NM IS MY ONLY TOWN READ AND I CAN PROTECT BUT NO IMMA GO AND NEIGHBORIZE SOMEONE INSTEAD

YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY SCUMCLAIM ANY HARDER THAN THAT.

IF THERE IS A VIG OUT THERE, HITO AND RAYRAY ARE BOTH VERY ACCEPTABLE SHOTS FOR TONIGHT.

[ooba]

For those of you who think Quadz is town just because of the neighbourize, you need to realize that Quadz-scum could have still worshipped N0 and neighborized singer N1 where neighbor is a Power role ability instead of a cast.

---

I think a better way to go about that is, seeing as he's already claimed his domains, we should ask him: @ooba: How much faith did you have N1?

If we're doing these claims - we're doing it properly.
We will have to do a faith claim followed by a domain claim (aka everyone first claims faith and then claims domain - Gamma's order is fine). Three possibilities:
1) Scum restricted to a few domains: They will have to fake the domain claims
2) Scum spread out across domains but concentrated faith in their most powerful-member's domain: They will have to fake the faith claims.
3) Scum spread out but worshiped their own domains instead of a concentrated approach: By claiming and attempting to discuss what domains were worshiped, you're putting the scum in a position where they will have to decide between concentrating faith and having the risk of town shunning that domain or spreading it out at a loss of power.

A player with over 3 faith N1 who worships one or both of Justice or Balance should claim their domains and N1 faith.

So why Justice and Balance alone - because I asked for worship in those domains? Ideally we should figure out the entire spread of faith for every night to see how people are worshiping.

Other scum: hito (policy lynch dealio yesterday), ooba (posting lots of IIOA, playing the town manager/setup-breaker to avoid scumhunting)

My posts talk about who I think are scummy - you might know that if you actually read the posts.