Mini 1159 - Powerrox93's Mini Normal I (Game Over)

[tarsonisocelot]

Well simply, and you're going to love this, because I'm town. Those first two sentences are what Yabba was doing and they are what you were ignoring in the middle of your misrep. It's only a connection if he gets lynched. When I say use the stall I mean derail the wagon and get someone else lynched. If I remember correctly TO had some votes on him too. If [L] had been scum like I thought he was then waiting could've caused the wagon to die and a townie would've gotten lynch. You can push me for information all you want but I don't have any information I can give you. I'm just saying if you really wanted to catch scum it might help if you look elsewhere because, here it comes again, for those of you with the benefit of flash photography, I'm town.

I'm female, as is [L].

If you want anyone to believe you are town stop trying to defend by yelling "I'm town!". Actually, properly scumhunt. If you started actin like the townie you claim to be we might begin to believe you. (But after your quickhammer and generally scummy play yesterday plus your terrible defense today you'd have to be amazingly obvtown from now on for that to happen.)

I'm willing to hammer C-Worl, but not until much nearer the deadline. Also, I think we should avoid putting him in the position to quickhammer himself.


PEdit: Thanks yabbaguy. Wouldn't GroupThink providing a reasoning for their unexplained vote have been helpful though? The main reason I wanted you to state that case is because you said you were going to but then didn't, so I wanted to check you actually did have a case.

I'm trying to be more useful, but I'm not great at analysing small amounts of information.

[C-Worl]

Actually, properly scumhunt.

I am scum hunting. How do you not see that? It should be obvious who my top suspect is.

[yabbaguy]

^Now stop. Does this sound like scum talking? No- shut up. Is this scum talking? Really ask yourself.

[redtail896]

And then there's redtail - who I'm willing to gander is trying to slam that andrew wagon a bit too roughly. There was one post where it was all "to me" in a defensive sort of way - and I have a niggling suspicion that he's playing defensive against no perceptible threat.

I would very much like to see my "playing defensive against no perceptible threat.

Was the hammer bad? Yeah, I admit I probably should have waited. But, I thought he was scum and figured waiting would have made the wagon stall and fall apart. I take full responisibility that my decision was bad and hurt town a lot but mislynching me, very quickly, won't help town.

The hammer was incredibly bad, as noted by multiple people. Jase's posts at the end of D1 give the best summary.

You're quoting where I admit that the hammer was bad. You're arguing a point that I'm not arguing against. So, is Jase. However I AM TOWN. Lynching me won't help town out.

The way that first post was worded, it sounds like you're unsure just how bad the hammer was. You're trying to justify a scummy action with "I thought he was bad, so I chose the lesser of two evils." I'm unwilling to accept that, because it wasn't really the lesser of two evils. You hammered when it was bad for town. I'm glad that you accept that, but understand it.

C-Worl has not made a real defense against the hammer-case. I have no problem lynching.

Actually, properly scumhunt.

I am scum hunting. How do you not see that? It should be obvious who my top suspect is.

Can you give us some information based on D1 play as well?

[crazypianist1116]

Will post within a day, just been exceptionally busy with schoolwork.

[Empking]

Votecount 2.4

Updated as of post #337

C-Worl (4) - crazypianist1116, redtail896, Uncle Pain, Prox
tarsonisocelot (2) - Me=Weird, yabbaguy
redtail896(1) - Zdenek

Not voting (4) - Jase, C-Worl, tarsonisocelot, imaginality

If there's a mistake let me know.
11 Alive == 6 to Lynch && 6 to No-Lynch

C-Worl

will be lynched at deadline if votes doesn't change

V/LA

Powerrox93: May 12 - 15. Back-up mod Empking will look over the game while I'm away

Deadline

May 30 17:00 CEST

[Uncle Pain]

I’m sorry I haven’t had the time to do anything besides my usual working schedule. I will now read through Day 2 and write replies as I read your posts.

Do you think we should lynch C-Worl already, right now?

No, I want(ed) to apply pressure. I want a good explanation why he hammered despite the lack of necessity.

@Uncle Pain: I don't think your criticism of my playstyle is warranted. I make these extreme attitudes to prove points that idiotic points are being made, and I try to convey it as such. So no, sarcasm is not uncalled for and I will continue to act like a maniacal egotist until you lot get it right.

After some thinking, let me put it this way: I sincerely hope that you’re just experimenting here and that in reality you’re a nice guy.

Was the hammer bad? Yeah, I admit I probably should have waited. But, I thought he was scum and figured waiting would have made the wagon stall and fall apart. I take full responisibility that my decision was bad and hurt town a lot but mislynching me, very quickly, won't help town.

I don’t think a good, reasonable wagon falls apart. It would have been either [L] or tarsonisocelot, both lynches that most of us would have been happy with. Quicklynching you actually

can

help town – namely if you flip scum. But this is not “an eye for an eye”, I prefer checking out all possibilities before deciding.

tarsonisocelot

: So far you’ve FoSed C-Worl for his hammer and lack of suspicions. What are

your

suspects beside him? Your (current) reads aren’t too clear to me.

There was this post,

I don't understand this. Can you clarify please? What exactly did I take too far? And why do you suspect my slot?

Yabbaguy noted the issue with it:

"wababa what the crap accusation, wait that's not clear, excuse me while I put on good Townie face and ask politely as possible 'Just why exactly, good madam, have you decided to accuse me on an otherwise perfectly fine day? Could you be bothered to explain the inner meanings of your grievances about me?'"

Criminey. Scummy scum Mcscum.

I admit I still don’t understand what yabbaguy’s problem with redtail896’s simple questions was. This may be another yabbaguy attitude thing but he takes it further by calling redtail896 scum. Scum for stating a question that yabbaguy isn’t keen on answering to. In consequence, I don’t understand why Zdenek uses this to incriminate redtail896. The part with the prepared escape from the C-Worl wagon is far more substantial.

The argument between Jase and C-Worl is interesting. Jase focuses on him and looks thoroughly for every clue that points to scum; C-Worl calls Jase on the tunnelling and insists on being town that made a mistake on Day 1. I think Jase’s case is justified and I support squeezing out reactions from C-Worl. One thing I found interesting to read:

If you wish to gain more out of today why don't you target other players that are not me

since the wagon on me apparently isn't going anywhere.

(bold by me)
Note that a lot of us could easily put you to L-1. And to be honest, currently I wouldn’t mind if it weren’t for gaining more information during this Day. You’re not reading obvious scum to me but your hammer is just too large a stain on your slate.

Oh, and that case tarson-scum really wants me to state: Carcinogen's ISO is fluffing mostly, especially with stupid advice like this:

GroupThink, you need to explain yourself. A person doesn't make their first post on page three and make it a completely blank, wordless vote. That's just not groovy.

So you think GroupThink should have just gone along with his unexplained vote? By the way, I said something similar in #71, is it fluff as well?

I still don't know about ocelot. She needs to actually contribute something useful. I'm seesawing between her and redtail right now. That's where I'm at.

So your case against redtail896, which reads to me basically as gut feeling, is more convincing to you that the C-Worl wagon? Plus, why are you suddenly not so sure any more about tarsonisocelot-scum?

[imaginality]

Will post within a day, just been exceptionally busy with schoolwork.

This minus the school- bit.

[C-Worl]

If you wish to gain more out of today why don't you target other players that are not me

since the wagon on me apparently isn't going anywhere.

(bold by me)
Note that a lot of us could easily put you to L-1. And to be honest, currently I wouldn’t mind if it weren’t for gaining more information during this Day. You’re not reading obvious scum to me but your hammer is just too large a stain on your slate.

I didn't say that to make it sound like I wasn't going to get lynched. In fact I was stating that due to my stupid hammer I doubt my wagon will disappear. However, it's also not building up until y'all decide it to (anyone who hammers would be put in my same position tomorrow) which probably won't be until deadline. I'm not saying it to be an ass either. If Jase WERE town then as town I'm giving him the advice of using this time to explore other avenues. Squeezing me of information won't work because I don't have any information to give. I'm Vanilla, that's all I know.

@Yabba, sorry for ignoring where you told me to stop but people were ignoring your question and posting things that I felt the need to answer to.

@Redtail896, I don't understand what you want from me. You want me to understand that the hammer was bad for town. I understand it now. However, you also want me to make a proper defense for the hammer-case. If I now understand that what I did was bad, how am I supposed to argue the case that what I did was bad?

Also, the reason I want Jase to focus on other people is that while he's tunneling me other people (like crazypianist1116 and Imaginality) can actively lurk by just saying things like, "Busy dudes I'll catch up later."

You've created an environment where townies can be lazy and scum can hide among the lazy townies.

[Uncle Pain]

C-Worl

: You gave only one reason so far for your early hammer: you feared that

“waiting would have made the wagon stall and fall apart”

in #326. I hope you realize that this is a weak reason. If there really is nothing else, I think you can’t do anything beside accepting our scumdars pointing to you, possibly leading to a lynch.

[Zdenek]

I admit I still don’t understand what yabbaguy’s problem with redtail896’s simple questions was. This may be another yabbaguy attitude thing but he takes it further by calling redtail896 scum. Scum for stating a question that yabbaguy isn’t keen on answering to. In consequence, I don’t understand why Zdenek uses this to incriminate redtail896. The part with the prepared escape from the C-Worl wagon is far more substantial.

The problem with Redtail's post is exactly what Yabbaguy suggested it was:
he's complaining the he doesn't understand the post, asks for specifics about what he took to far, and for a case to be presented against him. It reads like scum trying to suck up to town while muddying the waters of why he might be suspicious. I included when I listed my reasons for voting Redtail because it was one of them, and I agree completely that him preparing as escape from the C-Worl wagon is a better reason to find him scummy.

Ocelot's IIoA posts make her likely town despite the fact that they could be easily fabricated by scum. She reads to me like she is trying to play the game, and as scum she could probably just lurk the people off of her, but that's not what she's doing.

[Me=Weird]

I finally read through c-worls ISO.
First off, he votes L for a gut read. Generally if I have a gut read, I don't just say that, I look for a few scummy actions. Scum won't want to fake as much.
Later on, he seems incredibly dense about L's claim. Not sure if it's scummy, but it's dumb.
278 looks really bad, because he unvotes saying he isn't convinced on anyone, reads to me like scum waffling. Town should just vote their highest suspect. Then he accuses me and imaginality of staying off big wagons when we didn't, and anyway big wagons doesn't mean scum wagons.
Then the bad hammer, where he acts as though L said he was SK hunting, when he was saying that the SK hunting wasn't what he said.
Then the thing about giving replacements more to work with, well, suppose they get NK'd. We wouldn't had a chance to know their thoughts.
I have no idea why he thought the wagon would fall apart, it was a good strong wagon.
Most recently, he's been insisting that he's town just by saying that.
Also, his hesitance about voting doesn't sit right with me.

I'm happy to

Unvote, Vote: C-Worl

[tarsonisocelot]

Will someone please temporarily unvote C-Worl before they have the chance to self-hammer and cut the day short by 17 days?


Uncle Pain: I have class in a few minutes, so I don't have time now to make a post of my current views/reasons, but I will do so before the end of Saturday. I'm not going to do a plain scummiest to towniest, because I feel that that allows you to avoid justifying most of your reads. As town that could lead to mistakes in some players placement, and as scum the benefits of being able to suspect someone without providing proper reasoning are obvious.

[C-Worl]

If there really is nothing else, I think you can’t do anything beside accepting our scumdars pointing to you, possibly leading to a lynch.

I considered that but I figured dragging a few scum down with me might be more helpful. Jase was my top read but Me=Weird just won the lottery for trying to do exactly what y'all are mad at me for doing.

[redtail896]

Uncle Pain: I have class in a few minutes, so I don't have time now to make a post of my current views/reasons, but I will do so before the end of Saturday. I'm not going to do a plain scummiest to towniest, because I feel that that allows you to avoid justifying most of your reads. As town that could lead to mistakes in some players placement, and as scum the benefits of being able to suspect someone without providing proper reasoning are obvious.[/quote]

The problem is that we aren't at all clear what your other suspicions are. It fells like you're looking for reasons to avoid giving us reads, and that's scummy. Your posts have mostly been IIoA and basic suspicion; nothing too in depth. That's why I (and others) are suspicious of you.

[Empking]

Prox will be prodded.

[Uncle Pain]

C-Worl

: You’re not dead yet. The one hammering you too quickly will most likely follow your destiny.

tarsonisocelot

: Why do you find it possible that a self-hammer occurs? A sensibly playing townie should never do this. Scum could do this to shorten the day but by doing so it’d be one scum fewer, bringing us closer to our aim.
I’m eager to read your elaborate reads.

The problem with Redtail's post is exactly what Yabbaguy suggested it was:
he's complaining the he doesn't understand the post, asks for specifics about what he took to far, and for a case to be presented against him. It reads like scum trying to suck up to town while muddying the waters of why he might be suspicious.

I’d see your point if redtail896 had done this all the time – but it was only for one single statement from [L]. Why is it scummy to ask for clarification? Actually, I’m asking

you

for clarification right now, too, doesn’t this also count? Look… player A says something, player B replies that he doesn’t understand what A meant, player C calls OMGWTFscum on this. Seriously?!
Just to prevent misunderstanding: I’m not defending redtail896 here, I’m curious why you and yabbaguy use such a flimsy idea as a serious argument.

[C-Worl]

If there's no way for me to be forgiven for my mistake then I'll accept it, but I implore you that when I flip as town please go after Jase, Me=Weird, and, depending on when the hammer occurs, whoever hammers me. (If it happens right before deadline then they're most likely town who realizes mislynch > no lynch in this situation)

[Me=Weird]

C-Worl, I obviously did

not

try to hammer you, and even if I did, I thought it out and gave reasoning. Other than that, do you have any reasons to find me suspicious?
I don't like the constant "I'm town! This is a mis-lynch, don't kill me I'm town because I say I'm town!".

Also don't like how TIO is paranoid about C-worl self-hammering, and not wanting a lynch because deadline isn't for a while. Would you want to wait for the last minute to lynch someone a cop got a guilty on?

[crazypianist1116]

Will someone please temporarily unvote C-Worl before they have the chance to self-hammer and cut the day short by 17 days?

Oh my reason, that sounds so scummy.

Yeah I read and my vote's staying where it is. TO you're next.

[C-Worl]

C-Worl, I obviously did

not

try to hammer you, and even if I did, I thought it out and gave reasoning. Other than that, do you have any reasons to find me suspicious?
I don't like the constant "I'm town! This is a mis-lynch, don't kill me I'm town because I say I'm town!".

It's a good reason and honestly I'm VT. What other reasons do I have to offer at this point. What I did was bad. I understand why you people want to lynch me. I'm just saying mislynching me won't solve anything.

[redtail896]

Also don't like how TIO is paranoid about C-worl self-hammering, and not wanting a lynch because deadline isn't for a while. Would you want to wait for the last minute to lynch someone a cop got a guilty on?

This. In spades.

@crazypianist: any other thoughts? You've posted very little today.

[Jase]

Also don't like how TIO is paranoid about C-worl self-hammering, and not wanting a lynch because deadline isn't for a while. Would you want to wait for the last minute to lynch someone a cop got a guilty on?

No. You do not wait to lynch when a COP CONFIRMS scum. Yes. You do wait to lynch non-confirmed scum. Goofy and I'm not sure if it's intentional wrongness to advance a scum goal or just plain wrongness. I swear to god if we quick lynch I'm going to see that every last person who was on the wagon at the end winds up on the gallows!

I’d see your point if redtail896 had done this all the time – but it was only for one single statement from [L]. Why is it scummy to ask for clarification? Actually, I’m asking you for clarification right now, too, doesn’t this also count? Look… player A says something, player B replies that he doesn’t understand what A meant, player C calls OMGWTFscum on this. Seriously?!
Just to prevent misunderstanding: I’m not defending redtail896 here, I’m curious why you and yabbaguy use such a flimsy idea as a serious argument.

That quote (while I agree with the basic sentiment) points to a possible connection between red and UP. Specifically the final sentence. Defending red is exactly what's happening there, intentionally or not, and that's ok (like I said I agree that that point against red is silly). Problem I have is that he says he isn't defending red. That makes it look to me very much like he's trying to refrain from being connected to red (which is a sort of connection in itself). I wasn't particularly suspicious of either up to this point, but now I think a closer look is in order.

I haven't forgotten about you C-worl. I'll make a post for you in a little while. Just needed to get these thoughts out there.

[yabbaguy]

Will someone please temporarily unvote C-Worl before they have the chance to self-hammer and cut the day short by 17 days?

Oh my reason, that sounds so scummy.

Yeah I read and my vote's staying where it is. TO you're next.

That's called lining up lynches. If I called it tunnelvisioning, I'm equally guilty of presuming the flip, but that said, I think you're tunnelvisioning.

M=W's case basically calls him on poor play, it seems.

I like redtail more now.

Unvote, Vote: redtail

Reason is just that ocelot's play has been increasingly more and more Town.

Zonked right now. First thing I do next post is a redtail case explanation. The prolonged LA state of affairs is debilitating, I know, but... yeah.

[tarsonisocelot]

I'm paranoid about a self-hammer because in several of the games I've played then scum who considered their lynch inevitable have quickhammered themselves to cut short discussion. One did so in almost the exact situation C-Worl is in (they had quickhammered a townie on D1, then quickhammered themself as soon as they got to L-1 just 3 pages into D2).