Team Mafia: White Flag Mafia

[Klazam]

/confirm

[Klazam]

vote of respect: mith

[Klazam]

Whoever is scum chose to be, so:
Why did each of you choose this game / why should I believe you're town?
Who are your teammates?

I chose this game because I wanted a simple game, with no power roles.
I am not team claiming.

Equinox/Thor: The only possible “scumtells” I can see about IP at the time you guys voted him is that he was the second to last to confirm, and he didn’t post a regular confirm.

Sorry for being dense, but I think Mith is just as good a wagon as IP is.

-----
PEdit:
@IP because I respect him enough to vote him.

BUT, I think sarcasm is a valid scumtell. So Equinox/Thor: congrats. You get your vote.

unvote, vote InflatablePie

[Klazam]

Vote Equinox

Very unrandom. There is no backing to an IP wagon as herp-derping is not a scumtell, just a competence one. Equinox is pushing it more then "random wagon" on something like this being a tell.

Other good votes are marble and Klazam.

Why am i a good vote?

3. Question for you: Why focus on IP and not other players with strong scumgames who Llamarble mentioned? Sotty, DGB, Thor and mith (from what I recall) all have strong scum games and you hadn't really focused on talking about them.

How do I say this... It wasn't so much InflatablePie's preference for scum games -- as I wasn't aware of that -- but

more something I picked up that led me and my team to conclude he may be scum in this game.

I chose to not mention people with strong scum games like Llamarble because I do not play like him, and I'll eventually get reads on those people without naming them.

Cold you enlighten us all to what the underlined above may be?

[Klazam]

I made that post because i did not see what reason they had. I hit preview, and then i saw a scummy post from IP, so i voted him for that. Completely different reason than Equinox/Thor.

Equinox- I'm not sure how useful team meta information can be because you cannot discount the possibility for a team getting all town or all scum.

--

Why sarcasm is scummy: Sarcasm is a basic psychological mechanism for deflecting attention off oneself. Something pretty useful in mafia, and one i see in IRL mafia all the time.

--- (I'm slow)

PEdit: IP self voting? that is scummy, indeed. I'm starting to like where my vote is.

PEdit 3: GAAH STOP POSTING

[Klazam]

Nice and concise?

Sarcasm is a way to deflect attention when youre not sure what the reason why you are being voted are. Scum doesn't like attention.
Self voting is scummy because IT OPENS UP A HUGE CAN OF WIFOM.

Thats it.

[Klazam]

LlamaFluff: A weak reason is better than none. IP is the scummiest person, so far in this game for me. Therefore i vote him.

[Klazam]

OH GOOD.

Unvote

Vote: Klazam

This game feels really familiar.

How so?

[Klazam]

Sotty: My vote was on mith, because he's mith. I addressed the secret tell in my next post. I dont think that's called "completely ignoring the tell".
Also, from Equi’s words and reading other team mafia games, I believe it’s supposed to be a team meta tell, which I am not sure how to process, because I don’t see it myself.

LLamaFluff- To answer your question- I can see a RVS selfvote. Seen it happen so didn’t read too much in it, but a selfvote after pressure is a bit meh.

unvote

, though. Explanation down below.

Chris B- Null, I don’t have much on Chris. Needs time.
Sotty7- Null. Not enough too. Initial nonrvs post feels townish.
Thor 665- Feels strongly town. Selfmeta is kinda useless, but posting makes me feel he is town.
DrippingGoofball- Null. Questions: What favorite scumtells do you see in sotty’s post? It’s obvious you think that Socio would take a scum role, regardless of game. True or false?
SocioPath- scummish, jumping on me without stating reasoning. Not posting much content too.
Equinox-Very aggressive on “The Tell”, due to wanting to get out of RVS, seems like. Jumps off IP due to IP’s self vote putting him at L-1. Does not explain why the LlamaFluff vote was made, until a bit later. I’m leaning town on equinox due to his early play. I want to hear more about the Sociopath vote. Is it only because of the misrep you talk about?
InflatablePie- I don’t like his posting, but the scumtells he gives off is weak, though. That’s why I’m unvoting him. Null-slightly scummy
mith- metascearching in ISO 2, then an abstract pairing thrown out about Thor/Lmarble in 3. Summarizes the LlamaFluff case against Equinox. Not enough to glean alignment.
DemonHybrid- feels town (mostly gut)
Llamarable- looks very meta-focused. I cant really read him. Null.
LLamaFluff- Feels town- makes good posts, with obvious thought behind them.
Sevei- said she’ll post later today. NEEDS MOAR POSTING. Null.

So in summary:

Scummy:
Sociopath

Null/town:
Everybody else.

Based on this:

vote sociopath

[Klazam]

And i can assure you all I dont have a creamy nougat center.

(I have a honey-filled beehive, though)

[Klazam]

Nope. It's a tell of stupidness.

/Back to the game, could you answer my questions?

[Klazam]

Sotty- look at socio's posts. 7 posts, with no real content.

[Klazam]

'Null/not enough info/everything else', except those directly dealing with me.
Then concludes it must be me.
Cherry picking info for a silly "case".

Equinox + DGB being scum as well...well I hope its not that easy.
Would Klazam REALLY out his whole scumteam that easily in a town/scum list?
I didn't think he was THAT new.

Sotty- look at socio's posts. 7 posts, with no real content.

Yes, ISO me.
Don't look at context.

Point #1: I did ask questions and make comments. False logic. Why i vote you is because i find you scum, due to your minimal content.

Point #2: i dont see where you're coming from with that. Look at the relevant parts of my list, below:

DrippingGoofball- Null. Questions: What favorite scumtells do you see in sotty’s post? It’s obvious you think that Socio would take a scum role, regardless of game. True or false?

Equinox-Very aggressive on “The Tell”, due to wanting to get out of RVS, seems like. Jumps off IP due to IP’s self vote putting him at L-1. Does not explain why the LlamaFluff vote was made, until a bit later. I’m leaning town on equinox due to his early play. I want to hear more about the Sociopath vote. Is it only because of the misrep you talk about?

I said that i thought equinox was town. I also said DGB was null, and asked DGB questions to clear up a couple things about what DGB said. Nowhere did i say that DGB and equinox was scum.

Point #3: I never said to take you out of context. Here's what i see from you, taken in context:

Post 1,2: Confirm/RVS
Post 3: Answers Llmarble's question. Kind of decent here, but you try to create a elaborate reason why you're not scum.
Post 4: Refusing Equinox's comments and voting me because i voted IP
post 5: Pointing out two quotes of Equinox, without elaborating. What is this post even supposed to mean?
Post 6: Sarcastically complimenting Equinox for voting you.
Post 7: Basically says that my reason for voting IP was terribad, and revotes me. (This is unvoting me and voting me again, which serves no purpose.)

That is the entirety of your "contribution". Am i reading any of these wrong, or taking any of these out of context? I think not.

================
PEdit: I think that means that DGB apparently has a secret team meta read on socio. (I think reasonings like that is inherently flawed.)
PEdit 2: LOL. IP doesnt like a person being voted for basically the same reason that IP was voted by equinox.

[Klazam]

Equinox (about IP): It's risky for scum to put themselves at L-1, yes, but if scum did that, everyone might think he wasnt scum for that move, instead labeling him frustrated town and move on to someone else. It IS a weak tell, but still a bit scummy.

Sociopath is scum. Look at his responses to the people attacking him. What does it look like? It looks like he's trying to discredit the attacker, (DGB post for example, where he put DGB in a scummy light.) Socio tried to say that i was taking him out of context, and then when I posted what i felt his posts were made around, in context, he does not even comment on that, making him look like he's trying to ignore it.

Also:

I've been scum enough. Strong opening gambits are town tells. Weak entrances are scum tells.

Strong opening gambits are town tells...and yet...

Socio is town.

He's not. A player that jokes THREE TIMES that he's scum, is scum. In his brain, he is very nervous about the necessity to be deceptive, and he is releasing this tension by "jokingly" telling the truth.

So Sociopath is scum.

Apparently "strong opening gambits" don't include "claiming scum" as you keep saying that I did...and yet...

I'm a daycop.

In a way, DGB is a daycop though...

Then there was the first part again...

IHowever, some of the most successful scum teams I've seen have had aggressive players in them, especially early in the game. Is this particularly different on this forum, or are you just easily swayed by a strong opening gambit? This goes for both VCA and jumping in early.

I've been scum enough. Strong opening gambits are town tells. Weak entrances are scum tells.

Sounds like DGB is disagreeing with a player for selfmeta reasons...and yet...

@DGB - Self-meta is fairly useless in this game

Self-meta is a scumtell. You give your self-meta, then you do the opposite, WIFOM-gravy!

I don't self-meta because I am the worst possible judge of myself. I assume that is true of other people, and that the self-meta is a manipulative device, generally.

This section of Socio's wall doesnt make sense.

Let's break it down:

I've been scum enough. Strong opening gambits are town tells. Weak entrances are scum tells.

Strong opening gambits are town tells...and yet...

Socio is town.

He's not. A player that jokes THREE TIMES that he's scum, is scum. In his brain, he is very nervous about the necessity to be deceptive, and he is releasing this tension by "jokingly" telling the truth.

So Sociopath is scum.

Apparently "strong opening gambits" don't include "claiming scum" as you keep saying that I did...and yet...

I'm a daycop.

In a way, DGB is a daycop though...

In what way is claiming scum a strong opening gambit? You're twisting DGB's words around here. You kept on joking that you were scum. DGB interpreted that to be a nervous tell that you were scum, meaning that you basically are claiming scum to DGB.

NOWHERE DID YOU EVEN ONCE ACTUALLY CLAIM SCUM, MEANING NO "STRONG OPENING GAMBIT" FOR YOU. YOU'RE TRYING TO PUT YOURSELF IN A FICTIONAL POSITION WHERE DGB IS CONTRADICTING HERSELF. ALSO, YOU INSERT THAT QUOTE ABOUT DGB JOKING THAT SHE'S A DAYCOP, WHICH YOU THEN TRY TO MAKE LOOK SCUMMY. WHAT IS THAT?

All right, on to the second part.

Then there was the first part again...

IHowever, some of the most successful scum teams I've seen have had aggressive players in them, especially early in the game. Is this particularly different on this forum, or are you just easily swayed by a strong opening gambit? This goes for both VCA and jumping in early.

I've been scum enough. Strong opening gambits are town tells. Weak entrances are scum tells.

Sounds like DGB is disagreeing with a player for selfmeta reasons...and yet...

@DGB - Self-meta is fairly useless in this game

Self-meta is a scumtell. You give your self-meta, then you do the opposite, WIFOM-gravy!

I don't self-meta because I am the worst possible judge of myself. I assume that is true of other people, and that the self-meta is a manipulative device, generally.

DGB's use of the word "Selfmeta" in the reply to LlamaFluff obviously means trying to prove yourself as town due to your appartent preferences, as shown in your meta. You used self-meta reasons to try to prove yourself as town in your starting post. That's the usage that DGB obviously meant. Now.. The "I've been scum enough." line from DGB refers to her general mafia experience, in which she has formed that line of thinking. If DGB said "I used a strong opening gambit, so i'm town because when i'm scum, i tend to make weak entrances", that would be self-meta.

I would believe that you're twisting around the meaning of DGB's words. Therefore you are scum.

[Klazam]

AM I INVISIBLE, SOCIO? LETS TRY THIS:

SOCIO: ANSWERS.

[Klazam]

I'm giving up on ever getting anything useful from sociopath. 

Let's try a different line of questioning. 

MITH: can you answer the following questions:

If DH flips scum, what does that make Equinox?
If DH is town, what does that make Equinox?

If equinox flips scum, what does that make DH?
If equinox is town, what does that make Dh?

What do you think DH's stance (or lack thereof) on equinox means?

[Klazam]

All right. The buzz in my hive(My teammates, if its not being obvious) is telling me to look @ DGB.

I'm looking and i'm finding DGB very unreadable.

Am i correct in assuming that the main case on DGB is mainly about how DGB cannot say Sociopath is town? What else? If you all could clarify this, it would be awesome.

[Klazam]

Ugh. V/la until monday.

Sociopath is... Interesting.

unvote

[Klazam]

back.

Will post tonight

[Klazam]

First things first: My apologies for not participating in this day whatsoever so far. It was just a really difficult stretch of time for me. I’m here now, that’s what is important.

End of D1 things: My “vague” statement was supposed to mean that after I read more of Sociopath’s posts, I felt less and less sure that Socio was scum. I unvoted to reflect this. I was sure I would have time to elaborate, but I didn’t. Ah well. I know that my attacking Sociopath, and “chainsawing” DGB makes me look worse, but there’s nothing I can do about that, ha.

Team stuff: My teammate says that he has seen that “pathetic lurk” from Sevei before, and he was town in that game. So meta there.

MITH: I really don’t like the early defense of DGB, then the subtle retraction of that defense, at the same time “sponsoring” the case on DGB.
This is a very subtle defense of DGB, I believe.

Reading through SocioPath's DGB case... mostly seems to lack substance (and has that distinctive OMGUS feel), until the last two points (about DGB trying to negate a town read on SP by calling it a null tell; and the DGB/Equinox obvtown link). Of the leading wagons, I would still feel more confident switching to Llamarble.

Then Mith switches over to the DGBWagon gradually. In the post where Mith votes DGB, he attacks Socio. Hypothetical question, that cannot be answered: if people started to jump on Socio, would Mith have jumped off DGB, and tried to make the wagon die? He seems like he put himself in the postion where it was extremely likely for it to happen.

For this,

vote mith

I'll respond to other issues soon.

I'm working on possible pairs now.

[Klazam]

IPie.

Ythill being scum does NOT clear Mith. A team could be all town or all scum, or 2,2, or whatever. it's not all 1 out of 4.