Fall of the Matrix: Game Over!

[vezokpiraka]

Can I answer that too?

I don't listen too much to my partners when I am scum, unless they are Fate.

Check Mafia on Holy orders the first to see what I am talking about.

[MrBuddyLee]

The Vezo and Furc wagons are full of opportunistic scum looking to get easy lynches on notorious players.

Have been on the "bad" wagons: 14

SensFan

, DeathNote, Surye, Albert B. Rampage, Medicated Lain,

Porochaz

, Yosarian2, Furcolow, Amrun

SensFan, Porochaz (on both "bad" wagons)

, Toon Fighter, BrianMcQueso, Cogito Ergo Sum, LlamaFluff, AGar

Not on bad wagons: 8
Kison, Primate, CPE, Hez, IS, vez, Zindy (FOSed Furc), MBL,

not voting: 3

Bamboomancer, fuzzy, GummyBear (not voting)

Approximate number of scum in this game: 6

Prediction:
1-2 non-voters are scum
2-3 people on the "bad" wagons are scum
2 people not on bad wagons are scum.

Confirmation of hypothesis:
Checked several vezopiraka D1 townclaim games. Found one with LlamaFluffscum in it. 3/4 scum staunchly defended townclaiming townie vezopiraka. From their Quicktopic:

Just a heads up, I will probably be strongly opposing the idea of a policy lynch throughout the mid part of the day.

Also, can I mildly oppose the policy lynch idea in-thread?

Im still pushing policy lynches hard.

Revising hypothesis:
Scum who know this guy are no more likely to be on his D1 wagon if he is townclaiming town. Scum who have never played with the guy before--tough to say. Odds of most scum bandwagoning a townclaiming townie vezopiraka: slim-to-none. They are worried about how it will make them look come future days.

@Vez, have you ever claimed VT D1 as scum?

[Amrun]

I haven't been on either wagon... I tried to get on vez wagon real quick, but forgot to unvote and changed my mind anyway. Thanks for the misrep, MBL.

[MrBuddyLee]

You seem to have missed the point of my post--that scum are more likely to be image-conscious on the vez issue if he's townclaiming town.

[Amrun]

I didn't. I just. Didn't like my name being associated with actions I didn't take. I openly flip flopped about vezok, and I don't care about that, but I'm not on the furc wagon. I just wanted to correct it for the record.

[MrBuddyLee]

Your image-consciousness has been noted.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

You're not listed as being on the furcwagon, Amrun.

[SensFan]

MBL, are you arguing that you think both of the wagons are bad, or are you just compiling data to examine IS' point?

[Amrun]

Not wanting to be misrepresented isn't being overly image cautious, MBL, and I did misread your list to begin with. If anything, I say my public flip flop on vezok shows that I am not overly concerned with image, but whatever. I'll leave you to your unspecific and vague attempts at scumhunting.

[DeathNote]

Unvote

Finals are over monday.

Dislike Furc wagon but also dislike Furc so torn on if he is a good lynch. I unvoted Vez because there is a lot of action going on right now and I need to check up on everyone to make sure that I am still wanting a vez lynch.

[Porochaz]

Just a reminder I'll be gone over the next few days.

[Kison]

Could we get a prod on Bamboomancer.

Surye: Who do you even suspect. You claimed a few posts back that you've been trying to contribute to scum hunting, yet this entire game day your focus has been on the Vezo issue. With twenty pages of content, who looks bad to you?

[GummyBear]

First things first.

VOTE: Vezokpiraka

This is The Patented Quadz-Says-Lynch-VIs-First Method. We do NOT want Vezok around for the rest of the game, mudding up everybody's reads, distracting us from real scumhunting (see: 19 pages of bullshit and nothingness, almost entirely caused by his claim), and otherwise screwing us over. Scum wants Vezok around, for precisely these reasons. And besides, I DEFINITELY don't want Vezok left alive until lylo, and if we don't lynch him now, when WILL we lynch him? Answer: never. He needs to die, today.

Apart from that...

Furc is scummy because of the timing of his posts, as previously mentioned. However, his posting has been pretty decent since he started posting regularly, so he's a middling scumread for now.

AGar is reading as scum to me. I'm honestly not sure why; it's partially his insistence on leaving Vezok around, but there's more than that, I think. It's a pretty strong gut feeling, I suppose. We'll be paying particular attention to him as the game progresses.

We're not really seeing the Surye wagon based on a read-through of the thread and a brief look at his ISO. However, we also don't remember the case on him terribly well, so that's an alterable read, awaiting more info.

Sorry it took us so long to get in here.

Also, as a brief descriptor of how our hydra works, about 99% of our posts are either jointly written or checked by the other person. Unless a post specifically says that we haven't gotten approval from the other head, assume that we've both seen and / or written the post.

-quadz

[Medicated Lain]

Wow this game gets a lot of content... and this week worked opposite of my planning. As of tomorrow, I am back on a regular schedule! For now, I made some notes earlier of some pages two days ago, and suddenly there were about 5 new pages since then.. which have been briefed, but not thoroughly scanned. So if you pretend that this post was about 5 pages into the past, with some glimpses into the future, then it makes perfect sense.

FoS:AGAR -- Very strong defense on Vek, and the reasons aren't really making sense. I also feel like his posts have been very spastic in trying to just stir up anything possible. This would be my second choice for most suspicious, but it seems smarter to lynch Vek, and see if he is scum. If vek is scum, AGAR is my #1 choice for tomorrow.

How much of this relies on your belief that vezokpiraka is scum?

Wow, did you not read that post at all? This current vote is nearly entirely based on the belief that Vez is scum, and 100% on the fact that if Vez is alive, I have come to realize that it will be detrimental to the town. The #1 scummy thing, which I mentioned there, and saw VERY little mention of when it happened, is Vez's more in depth claim on role. Could I get some response from folk on this to make sure people aren't just skipping over this?

Townie Role PM wrote:You are a normal human, and you're not really sure what you're doing here. All you know is that people are dying, and you don't intend to be one of them. You win when all anti-human factions have been eliminated.

Post #2 of the game. Common knowledge for all of us to take in, about the rules, before any confirmations, and any information. However, many people just brief over this. I didn't even realize until pointed out elsewhere. We all know what the role for townie says, there's no variation.

My win condition says I win if all the threats to the town are dead.

Why would Vez say threats to town, and not anti human factions? Saying anti human factions would have made it easier to trust him, and maybe even perhaps bring it up as something to focus on... as in the idea anti human factionS, meaning that we know we are dealing with multiple groups to kill. Maybe you could consider that common knowledge in a game this big, but the point is, that rather than this being a post that clears him, and gives us something new to think about, it tells us that he stated something that goes against common knowledge to the game, in attempt to clear himself, and not really attempt to produce any new information. The biggest problem is,

this disagrees with what has been stated about the game, and if was stated properly would have been relevant to helping the game.

On top of this, he's claimed townie. The more I have thought about this, the more I realize, it's just going to harm us in the end. We have a few choices as town in this situation.
#1: Ask a cop to investigate/a cop investigates. This is what Surye did, and look what happened to him? Granted, it's a bad idea, but it was thrown out as a possibility, and got him under the prime spotlight. a cop investigating him in general seems like a waste. In the future, our cop could be used for verifying power roles, as well as catching scum, so why should he investigate a supposed townie? It's a waste of resources if it is wrong.
(side note on Surye) But our options for what to do with Vez are limited. I think it's absolutely stupid to attempt allocate cop power to check a possible TOWNIE role, and ask them to come out.. well that certainly is a bit scummy.. Just a side note on Surye. Honestly I think it's more stupidity though, because I don't think anyone would be willing to consider that a decent plan... and I find it far less scummy than Vez and some other players actions.
#2: Trust him. I was more willing to consider this at first, but as time has gone on, I have come to realize it is very bad for us. I specifically stated this after the cop choice, because I want everyone to consider what has to be done to truly clear him. The problem is, this is a blind trust. We have no way to know if this is true, and it leads to two scenarios:
A. He is scum, and day after day, he does not die. This looks normal to us, because why would anyone go after a townie when there are more powerful roles?
B. He is townie, and does nothing else to help, and has already given us reason not to trust him.
#3: Lynch him. I was willing to give him a chance, but he used that chance, and continued scummy actions, and no matter what, I cannot trust him for that. Making the claim of townie was scummy in itself, and now there is a second, I think very huge factor to consider. This is all the information we are gonna get from him folks, and he took his chance to clear himself, and provide something, and instead dug himself in deeper.

I am curious what you all think of this?

@amrun, thank you for the compiled list of people not contributing, because this is a serious concern that also needs to be thought about. I am very concerned about first day lurkers right now, as well as people lacking in content of posts, which is mainly mozami/cog.

I came in after Furcolow issues, but based on my briefing over, I also feel that these actions are very scummy... especially for:

The inactivity isn't the problem. It's the selective activity.

But I will read more over and make further decision later. Right now, I believe that lynching Vez is #1 best option.

Also in my back notes:

There are so many scum on that Vezo wagon that its bordering ridiculousness. If nothing materializes on Surye or someone else on that wagon soon though, ill vote Vezo myself just to keep things moving and hopefully go after the other bandwagoners tomorrow.

I really don't like think this post produces anything positive, and is quite scummy itself. Didn't notice anything else that stood out yet.
Also still

fos:agar

Because I have yet to see anything that makes me think less in that direction.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Wow look at all the scum come buzzing around the easy lynch targets. Irony

Can you please be more specific?

Furcolow

[vezokpiraka]

The Vezo and Furc wagons are full of opportunistic scum looking to get easy lynches on notorious players.

Have been on the "bad" wagons: 14

SensFan

, DeathNote, Surye, Albert B. Rampage, Medicated Lain,

Porochaz

, Yosarian2, Furcolow, Amrun

SensFan, Porochaz (on both "bad" wagons)

, Toon Fighter, BrianMcQueso, Cogito Ergo Sum, LlamaFluff, AGar

Not on bad wagons: 8
Kison, Primate, CPE, Hez, IS, vez, Zindy (FOSed Furc), MBL,

not voting: 3

Bamboomancer, fuzzy, GummyBear (not voting)

Approximate number of scum in this game: 6

Prediction:
1-2 non-voters are scum
2-3 people on the "bad" wagons are scum
2 people not on bad wagons are scum.

Confirmation of hypothesis:
Checked several vezopiraka D1 townclaim games. Found one with LlamaFluffscum in it. 3/4 scum staunchly defended townclaiming townie vezopiraka. From their Quicktopic:

Just a heads up, I will probably be strongly opposing the idea of a policy lynch throughout the mid part of the day.

Also, can I mildly oppose the policy lynch idea in-thread?

Im still pushing policy lynches hard.

Revising hypothesis:
Scum who know this guy are no more likely to be on his D1 wagon if he is townclaiming town. Scum who have never played with the guy before--tough to say. Odds of most scum bandwagoning a townclaiming townie vezopiraka: slim-to-none. They are worried about how it will make them look come future days.

@Vez, have you ever claimed VT D1 as scum?

I see you didn't quote the names of the scums. One of them was llamafluff. And you also didn't say that the game had a special lynching mechanic and they were deciding who to save. It was against me, ani and gandalf. Gandalf was scum and Fate wanted him dead. Llama wanted ani dead just because of policy and he saved me over gandalf to make Fate like him.
I really don't like the fact you quoted that but didn't give the context.

As for claiming VT as scum. I don't I ever did that in a game that wasn't open, or semi-open.
There may be a game where I claimed VT as scum just because it was late game and I was on the chopping block, but I don't remember any examples.

[Zindaras]

Wow look at all the scum come buzzing around the easy lynch targets. Irony

Can you please be more specific?

Furcolow

What the hell is up with the rampant abuse of the plural?

Albert, what do you think of Yosarian, DeathNote, Surye and Lainy?

[AGar]

AGar, please clarify the exact reason behind your vote on Furcolow. Also, do you still think Surye is scum?

Yes, Surye is stull scum.

Furc vote is because he comes in, responds poorly to pressure in a "convenient" manner (although don't believe it was necessarily intentional) then pulls the Vezok wagon equal with his own with shit shit reasoning.

@AGar, Primate and LlamaFluff:
If you were scumpartners with vez in this game, would you advise him to claim vanilla town right off the bat?

Likely no. It automatically reduces the usefulness he has to the scumteam. Should he survive that long on the VT claim to be the last scum, one track or watch well placed ruins him. A town RB suspicious of him later on can nail him as well. If he's a scum PR, he's useless now, as again - watch/track/etc is now instantly ending his lifespan. He's too confined throughout the game. Should I choose to bus him, he can't fakeclaim to draw a counter/buy a night of usefulness. The only upside is abusing the meta, but that won't last forever.

---

Hey Gummybear,

Quadz's VI lynching policy is the most retarded fucking thing I've ever read. Please be to making an actual case on someone here instead of opting for the easy "lolwecancoastd1" vote. It makes finding your scumbuddies easier.

-AGar

[Albert B. Rampage]

Albert, what do you think of Yosarian, DeathNote, Surye and Lainy?

Who the hell is Lainy?

[Zindaras]

Albert, what do you think of Yosarian, DeathNote, Surye and Lainy?

Who the hell is Lainy?

There's only one Lain here, and she's Medicated.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'd rather

vote: Vezokpiraka

d1 vanilla townie claim
- hurts % of power roles not being hit
- if he's town, he will not scumhunt or lynch correctly

*smack*

No!

unvote
Vote Furc

^ This.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Furcolow

Furc needs to die.

What is this garbage posting?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Albert, what do you think of Yosarian, DeathNote, Surye and Lainy?

Who the hell is Lainy?

There's only one Lain here, and she's Medicated.

I like them all. I like everyone who is voting for vezok. Vezok needs out of this game.

[MrBuddyLee]

I see you didn't quote the names of the scums. One of them was llamafluff. And you also didn't say that the game had a special lynching mechanic and they were deciding who to save. It was against me, ani and gandalf. Gandalf was scum and Fate wanted him dead. Llama wanted ani dead just because of policy and he saved me over gandalf to make Fate like him.
I really don't like the fact you quoted that but didn't give the context.

I said three of the four scums defended you, which is correct and is the point--IS is incorrect to state that the obvious scum play is to be on your wagon when you townclaim, and in fact, scum in the past have postured on this exact topic to make themselves look better.

[Zindaras]

Albert, what do you think of Yosarian, DeathNote, Surye and Lainy?

Who the hell is Lainy?

There's only one Lain here, and she's Medicated.

I like them all. I like everyone who is voting for vezok. Vezok needs out of this game.

Except Furcolow, apparently. And all the scum buzzing around the easy lynch targets turned out to be quite the anticlimax.

And, seriously, way to just avoid saying anything. For all the claimed "scumhunting" you're doing, you're being about as useless as you claim vezok is.

[Albert B. Rampage]

You got it wrong boy. Furcolow

is

the easy target scum are voting for.