Mafia MetaMafia ~ Game Over!

[VasudeVa]

He's refusing to back his vote up with reasoning. How is that 'sincere'?

[Nicki Minaj]

Mafia on Evil roles and Town on Chaotic

Please clarify for me if there's a typo here.

No typos. Mina asked Vi pre-game what we'd get on Chaotic Evil and she refused to tell us, if that's what you're wondering.

[Magua]

I do not think we should mass-claiming domains now. However, I think the possibility of mass-claiming if you worshiped N0 and what you worshiped should be considered.
Pro:
- Locks people into claims. We can compare with Faith results on N1 and narrow down if anybody lied.
Con:
- Scum might get an idea of people with power roles\good casts if they claim "Not worshipped on N0"

I'm leaning towards the info beating out the possible disadvantage.

Off the cuff, I don't think we get too much out of this.

Scenario 1: Three people claim to have worshipped Will, but Will turns out to have five faith tonight. Are any of these three people scum?

Scenario 2: Five people claim to have worshipped Will, but Will turns out to have four faith tonight. Obviously, one of those five is lying. However, the chance of lynching that 1/5 is less than a general lynch, all things considered, and there's no guarantee that the other four are clear.

In exchange, the scum know they're shooting someone who's casting tonight.

You *do* get a win in clearing groups of people if it's truthful -- three people claim Will, Will has three faith -- assuming that the scum went for a "everyone but one person worships the same domain" plan. How much of a win that is depends on how many people did not worship last night -- the more who didn't worship, the less win you get.

I don't think it's a good idea for D1.

He's refusing to back his vote up with reasoning. How is that 'sincere'?

How is it not?

[Gammagooey]

Hay VV-
Why do you like quadz lynch?
Is there anyone other than him and Parama that you think is particularly scummy?
Who would have you random voted for if you got here before AGM did?

[MagnaofIllusion]

He's refusing to back his vote up with reasoning. How is that 'sincere'?

Perhaps he's testing your reaction to assess you alliegence. That's totally valid, right?

[Katsuki]

lolol VV is scum, cute.

NEXT.

[Magua]

Mafia on Evil roles and Town on Chaotic

Please clarify for me if there's a typo here.

No typos. Mina asked Vi pre-game what we'd get on Chaotic Evil and she refused to tell us, if that's what you're wondering.

Yes.

Or what would happen if you targetted someone who was neither Chaotic nor Evil?

This ability is just so whacky I cannot help but believe it is legit.

[Nicki Minaj]

It's a cop inspect, Magua. I'm just naive toward chaos and paranoid toward evil. If I inspect someone who is neither chaotic nor evil, I get a sane result.
I dunno how this ability is useful as scum could just fakeclaim neutral as chaotic. If it were useful I wouldn't be claiming it. :\

[VasudeVa]

How is it not?

Do I really have to wall up on why not explaining votes is scummy/insincere ?

Hay VV-
Why do you like quadz lynch?
Is there anyone other than him and Parama that you think is particularly scummy?
Who would have you random voted for if you got here before AGM did?

VP's case. I like it. Plus quadztown isn't that twitchy. Actually, I wanna hear what SS says about him.

Don't really think Parama is that scummy anymore. His admitance to his hypocrisy is very odd. But then again, this is Parama we are talking about, hence I asked someone to look through the argument.

Perhaps he's testing your reaction to assess you alliegence. That's totally valid, right?

Last time I checked, you're not Faraday. But that's okay, you're probably buddies anyway.

Actually, this is one of the reasons why I'm voting for mothrax. I haven't explicitly said it, but I did imply it when I was explaining the vote. Why does he get a free pass and I don't?

lolol VV is scum, cute.

I

am

cute, but I'm certainly not scum.

Care give me reasons? Or are you gonna shut me down and break my heart?

[Faraday]

Do I really have to wall up on why not explaining votes is scummy/insincere ?

lmao

[Plum]

I dunno. I guess I'm probably just already stressed out from IRL stuff, but it was disorienting / confusing for me.

Ehhhhhhhh. I am underwhelmed by this back-off from the argument.

We can hold Mothrax's fate in the balance for a bit then. We lynch him first if he's scummy and we can be a little looser about how scummy he has to be to get lynched, but otherwise we hold our fire.

I am uninterested in getting into arguments about who everyone thinks would be the best choice for a policy lynch out of the playerlist. AGM's power could be scum or Town and I

do

dislike his defense to Hito's questions - too much 'with this power I

couldn't

be scum (because that's patently untrue but quite manipulative), too much 'in fact, you could be buddies with Mothrax.

Also: Your reason for voting Hito is a little . . . wonky? I'm down, sort of, with the 'he called Faraday Town for no good reason' thing (given that I can't check/refresh myself on the context I couldn't say myself whether it looked to be a Townish post for other reasons), but the assumption that he does believe Quadz is scum/should believe that is not a given and doesn't correlate. Hm.

@AGM

- If we lynch Mothrax first today, do we get a flip off of him as soon as he's lynched and go with the info to the second Day 1 lynch, or does he flip just before Night?

If AGM's policy-lynch picks aren't mine at all, neither are Hito's top three policy lynches. This tells me that

this sort of thing is highly subjective

. Which means that as far as I can see it's very unlikely we'll be able to reason out anything conclusive regarding AGM's alignment by arguing about who he should have picked (unless NS was actually horrid in the games he cited, I suppose).

Stupid school computer isn't interested in letting me acces Page 5 of the game but I've been messing around with the ISO function and at least got whatever Nicki M. responded to me thus far:

This is also to Plum, but are you saying you expected a serious answer to that question? I'm just curious, how do you think scum would react to that question, and how would town react?

If it makes you happy,

no

. I'm not scum. I feel ridiculous for even posting that.

Yes, I expected a serious answer. Town is more likely to answer quickly and definitively; scum is more likely to answer with a joke, with an attack on the question or the questioner, or to answer in longer or more equivocal ways. Scum are made to lie outright, and there

is

, in my own experience as well as reasonably strong heresay, psychological force acting which

does

influence reactions and answers such that an answer can be evaluated for scumminess. At this point your appeasement makes little difference to me, but yeah.

Picking back up on Page 6:

Plum has me paranoid with the big ol' wall post pointing out a how scummy Nicki is on page 3- It's page 3, and most of the points are pushed about as far as they can possibly be taken- it's like trying to make a case on someone and going through their whole iso to find every point instead of looking at the overall play to find out whether or not they're scum. And there's no mention of anyone else in the game except my domain thing being shiny.

Fair enough; Nicki posted quite a bit and caught my eye with much of her (their?) posting. Pushing the points as far as they could be taken didn't seem a bad option at the time (moreover, I was a little inspired by the scummer for whom I'm High Priestess, so that may have played in; take that for what you will). Most of the other interaction was not nearly as interesting to me as scumhunting material at the time.

The flavor is a passive ability called Trollspeak, this ability returns allegiance investigations as mafia and no result to all other investigations. We also can not be neighborized due to this passive ability.

Ninja? This is not just Miller, this is not being able to be accounted for by Watcher Tracker et al (and that besides the Neighborizer immunity). Hm. Not just a Miller claim indeed. Why didn't you mention the Ninjahood aspect of the power when you claimed Miller?

@DDD - what do you think is the optimal town strategy with the domains? Is there any advantage to mass claiming domains as someone (Seraphim?) suggested? Are we better randomly worshiping and casting? Same question goes to anyone that played in POWERFUL WIZARDS mafia...or whatever it's called.

If someone has a useful and falsifiable reason for domain and/or alignment claiming then I'd be in favor of it, but far too often you do something like that and people try to play outguess the mod isntead of scumhunting.

Goodposting.

I have a slight town read on Niki. I know Mina jumps all over the place as town and I'm not seeing scumMina asking about alignments like that. Plum's post on them makes me uneasy. I need to see that play out some more.

Gamma is town. Overly paranoid, but town. I can see where he is coming from and our info seems to match up.

Unvote, Vote: Plum

Yeah I like this vote

~Sotty

What changed between these two posts?

If no one played in Powerful Wizards mafia (did Plum? I thought she played all Spyrex games), then I guess I will have to look into it myself to see when and if domains were ever claimed in it.

Nope, sorry.

MoI - Fairly speaking I was making assumptions; that said, I don't think as mass alignment claim on either axis is a good choice at this point and Nicki's way of suggesting we do such a thing seemed shady for the reasons I discussed.

What response would you expect? There is one obvious answer to that question regardless of the player’s true Allegience – “No I’m not”

Unless you are anticipating a Lie Detector (which in a game like this is certainly possible) it’s at best a Null question with scum-hunting upside.

There is one obvious answer, and I'd consider "No I'm not" give or take null. As far as my personal experience and my education tells me, equivocal responses of any sort to this question are highly worth noting and much more likely Town than scum. Your theory stance on this may be different; I dunno. I do see a scum-hunting upside in that scum are more likely to react in certain ways than Townies are/if you get a certain type of response, it's more likely that the responder is scum than if he/she had given the enutral direct answer.

2) Tarhalindur. Being a Vi game, there's a Tarhalindur role out there, and I'm 99.9% that it will be significantly advantaged by having a massclaim of domains -- either because it has to eliminate everyone of a certain domain(s), or it wins if everyone alive has a certain domain(s), or something along those lines.

So instead of massclaiming domains, I would recommend that everyone name what domain they'd like worshipped. Which gives us nearly the same information for our purposes (what should I worship if I think X is town?), but hinders someone who needs to know what everyone's domains are.

1. Tarhalindur role has been all sorts of alignments as far as I can recall, even Town. There may or may not be a Domain-eating party/wincon of some sort, though, so point.

2. Your style domain claim is the one to go with.

I don't like either of Parama's posts.

I've only made one content post, so you starting out with this is a pretty good basis for me to discredit your posts.

You've never disliked someone's RVS vote-post?

I don't like someone who votes and then unvotes and then votes in the same post; has the feel of someone wanting to be careless and stream-of-consciousness without actually being either.

Your case on me: lol I voted twice in the same post
Uh okay.
That's not a case. I'll just put you on my "to-be-ignored-all-game" list now.

Wow this is

not

the Town-Parama I know and love. Telling the same guy twice in one post that you're going to ignore him? Strawmanning Magua's reason for voting you? What is this nonsense?!

Actually, no. I think there IS a problem with that beyond the stupidity of it.
7 pages into a game.
Your vote is "LOL THIS GUY VOTED TWICE IN ONE POST, SCUM SCUM SCUM"
And your only mention of quadz: "i don liek him"
what a blatant "fos: buddy vote: townie lolololol" post.
magua's desperately trying to avoid bussing at this stage in the game. but the only thing he can come up with to push is "uh double vote = scumtell i thik? lolz."
y'know what this means?
EVERYBODY under serious suspicion is very likely scum if Magua is scum, which he is.
there are too many of the scums.

In ten minutes you change from 'Magua's so lol that I'm going to ignore him' to 'MAGUA'S EVIL SCUM AND EVERYONE UNDER SUSPICION NOW IS PROBSCUM TOO!'. The only thing in between I'm seeing is . . . Magua finding your first post to fake-casual. Now it's 'I'll SHOW you I'm not fake casual! This isn't casual at all! This is serious scummy business!'. Or did you not see Magua's response before that post? I can't tell. But anyway.

No.

I don't care that VV has basically claimed scum. Magua basically just posted his role PM for us.

Um? No. Unconvinced of sincerity, too. Your Post #182 is all good and well, but if VV is so glaringly scummy, why vote Magua? For a mediocre attack on you (which I'm still surprised you're not at least seeing as quite plausibly sincere)? Because he didn't vote a different suspect of yours (in which case you'd probably better be voting Quadz)? I'm not seeing this from Town-Parama. Far, far from it.

Yet no vote in-sight for VV,

who has far more votes than Magua

.

Can't believe I didn't see that before, but yeah. THAT TOO.

Anyway Magua is probtown, etc. I'm not really feeling Mina's hito vote any more so I'm going to risk waking her dragon by voting for StretchyPlum.

Unvote. Vote: Plum.

Have you finished responding to me, or . . . ?

UNVOTE: Nicki

VOTE: Parama

Let's see.

[Gammagooey]

lolol VV is scum, cute.

NEXT.

Hay VV-
Who would have you random voted for if you got here before AGM did?

disagree
I never read games, I skim them and look for the valuable posts. It tends to work.

I'm referring all of you to my new avatar.

AUGH THIS NINJA WALL IS CRUSHING ME

[sottyrulez]

By all other investigations, I was assuming role related investigations. We need to get clarification on whether that means untrackable or unwatchable.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also I'll be replacing out in the near future. But not now.

No, do it now. The sooner you have bowed out the sooner your replacement can be active and actually read the game.

lolol VV is scum, cute.

NEXT.

And yet you aren’t voting for him. Sigh.

Do it. Call for replacement early. It’s the Pro-Town thing to do.

--

Soo yeah, don't be hatin bro if your own BS case gets used against you.

1. You claim the case on you is crap.
2. You then say “Dudz, don’t hate when someone uses the exact same crap on you” to Parama.

If you were intellectually honest you would think that Magua, using the same tactics you decry in those pressing you, would be scum.

But you have a Town read on him.

Inconsistent and scummy.

You really got that Best Town performance with play like this?

Other than either propping up your ego what scum-hunting do you expect to achieve throwing crap like this?

Why is it scummy? I've said my reason: AGM targeted him with his policy lynch ability, and now I'm using my vote to get a read on mothrax and see if it's worth pursuing the lynch.

1. You pop in the thread and go “Weeeeee, policy lynch Mothrax” and comment on nothing else.
2. You are claiming to be getting a read on him with this vote. Yet you aren’t questioning him about his posts.
3. Unless prodded with a pointy stick you’ve more or less avoided actively doing any scum-hunting (yes … I said it again) or giving solid reads.
4. Your scum suspicions more or less revolve around those pressing you. You can’t even claim Newb status to hide behind that.

Actually, this is one of the reasons why I'm voting for mothrax. I haven't explicitly said it, but I did imply it when I was explaining the vote. Why does he get a free pass and I don't?

You obviously missed the sarcasm.

Faraday didn’t make his first post and vote saying “Herp, Policy lynch”. You did. Continue to pretend that your votes are analogous though.

Furthermore your vote languishes on Mothrax while you’ve actively called others scummy. Faraday is at least moving his votes around to players he’s calling scum.

One shows Pro-Town intentions. One doesn’t. Can you figure out which is which?

--

@Nicki

– What do you think of VV?

--

i don't vv because magua is scummier the end bye

So there is something scummier than directly claiming scum in thread. Relational tell regarding VV noted.

--

He didn't really seem to comment much on what was going on and was concerned with being called scum. That's what I mean.

What do you think of VV?

--

@ooba

– I see you are also avoiding discussing any VV read. Your thoughts?

[sottyrulez]

What changed between these two posts?

Nothing, you're reading the first wrong, that or I worded it poorly.

I have a

slight town read on Niki.

I know Mina jumps all over the place as town and

I'm not seeing scumMina asking about alignments like that.

Plum's post on them makes me uneasy [about Plum]. I need to see that play out some more.

Your wall on Niki made me uneasy about you. Following it up with another huge wall isn't doing you any favors.

~Sotty

[Seraphim]

Magua is town.
Bad news: there is a distinct possibility of VasudeVa being town this game. He fucking sucked hardcore in the last game I played with him too and OMGUS'd the fuck out of everyone.

Um.

Hmmmmm. God I hate reading the game again but you guys are making me do it.

I hate going under the radar. Where's someone I can piss off?

VV, let's fight again, that was fun.

Can I ask for fewer walls please? Pretty please?

[Katsuki]

Also I'll be replacing out in the near future. But not now.

No, do it now. The sooner you have bowed out the sooner your replacement can be active and actually read the game.

My replacement doesn't exist yet though.

lolol VV is scum, cute.

NEXT.

And yet you aren’t voting for him. Sigh.

Do it. Call for replacement early. It’s the Pro-Town thing to do.

Since when did games consist of only a single scum?

[Gammagooey]

My replacement doesn't exist yet though.

There are 6-7 people on the replacement list.

[Katsuki]

My replacement doesn't exist yet though.

There are 6-7 people on the replacement list.

The person replacing into my slot isn't on the replacement list.

Enough talk about me though.


btw Plum is probably scum as well.

[Plum]

What changed between these two posts?

Nothing, you're reading the first wrong, that or I worded it poorly.

I have a

slight town read on Niki.

I know Mina jumps all over the place as town and

I'm not seeing scumMina asking about alignments like that.

Plum's post on them makes me uneasy [about Plum]. I need to see that play out some more.

Your wall on Niki made me uneasy about you. Following it up with another huge wall isn't doing you any favors.

~Sotty

I understand 'big wall focusing entirely on attacks on someone I'm getting a townread off'. I don't understand 'all wallposts are bed'. There were about 7 pages between my two posts, and I had plenty I wanted to comment on. My question is where/why you switched from 'Plum is uneasy-making but not worth switching my vote' to 'Plum is worth my vote' (especially given that you said you needed to see it - I assume the me/Nicki Minaj interaction, and I assume you meant you needed to see more to judge whether your uneasiness with me was worth acting on).

btw Plum is probably scum as well.

O RLY

[Katsuki]

Tainted fruit. <3

Will get an update on that read after class.

[Plum]

I'd love to see it, I'm sure.

[MagnaofIllusion]

The person replacing into my slot isn't on the replacement list.

Oh, so you are replacing in a Hyrda that you are a part of. Blarg.

Since when did games consist of only a single scum?

No one has asserted it does. Why respond to a point with irreveant observations? Why does observations about you not voting someone you claim is scum cause you to react in that manner?

I don’t see you doing much other than “Vote Quadz” to show why he’s viable scum. No real Pro-Town reason to just park your vote if you aren’t going to press said player.

--

Can I ask for fewer walls please? Pretty please?

Request denied.

Moving on – since you are ready to christen VV as suck-Town who is scum? You’ve got 10 pages to find someone.

--

@Plum

– You response is noted. You can come out of my scum-pool for the time being.

Can't believe I didn't see that before, but yeah. THAT TOO.

So what does Parama’s unwillingness to vote VV say to you about both of their potential alignments?

[Parama]

Don't really think Parama is that scummy anymore. His admitance to his hypocrisy is very odd. But then again, this is Parama we are talking about, hence I asked someone to look through the argument.

I haven't even posted since the last time you called me obvscum
And I admitted to the hypocrisy BEFORE anybody called it out.
And yo only just figured that out with you "o crap" moment there

yo Plum, I really think you're not reading into things enough.
Gamma I don't get it
Moai: Posting a scum role PM is scummier than claiming scum, yes.

oh and Kats is a cupcake. and cupcakes are very pro-town.

p-edit flying ninja cult

[Katsuki]

MOI you act as if you've never played with me before.

P-Edit: Said cupcake is also being drowned in walls of text.