Mafia MetaMafia ~ Game Over!

[sottyrulez]

'sup?

We're a Miller.

All allegiance investigations will come back as mafia on us.

We are Troll.

Yes, we're not amused.

Vote: Seraphim

Gut twinges and he seems overly excited. Weird.

~Sotty

[sottyrulez]

Sotty, what's your alignment?

You've said there's a reason you're asking this, so please tell me it's going to be worth claiming it.

[sottyrulez]

Supah early reads: Gammagooey, Seraphim, and sottyrulez are probtown. On the other hand, Nicki Minaj is asking fluffy questions that I don't like.

WAGON TIME.

Unvote, Vote: Nicki Minaj

Show your work plz

[sottyrulez]

Argh.

Exact role name is High Priest/Priestess of Zorblag.

[sottyrulez]

OMGUS HOOOOOOOOOOO!

Farday and Equinox's quick vote-switches are bad. Equinox not answering my question makes it worse.

However, NM's recent post solidifies my position on them. Vote stays for now.

Nah, they're both town. Their votes on you make sense to me.

[sottyrulez]

Paraphrased, our flavor with being a miller is that Troll speak effects the reading of our Allegiance.

I was really feeling Equi town, but her coming out and saying double day is pointless unless Morthax is scum is a real stretch.

Hito really did over react to Almaster's lynch choice. I know he doesn't like how NS plays, but trying to paint Almaster as scum because he has a different policy lynch is really WTF. I agree that it links Hito+morthax much more than GM+NS.

I have a slight town read on Niki. I know Mina jumps all over the place as town and I'm not seeing scumMina asking about alignments like that. Plum's post on them makes me uneasy. I need to see that play out some more.

quadz “is this a serious vote” was horribad. I find myself somewhat agreeing with Parama about VV/quadz

Vote stays until I can chat with my other head.

~Sotty

[sottyrulez]

also vv just fucking claimed my phone so bad scum aint in prediction

?

[sottyrulez]

Eh?

The flavor is a passive ability called Trollspeak, this ability returns allegiance investigations as mafia and no result to all other investigations. We also can not be neighborized due to this passive ability.

[sottyrulez]

I paraphrased the passive ability in about the same detail as how it's written in the role pm.

[sottyrulez]

Gamma is town. Overly paranoid, but town. I can see where he is coming from and our info seems to match up.

Unvote, Vote: Plum

Yeah I like this vote

~Sotty

[sottyrulez]

Paraphrased, our flavor with being a miller is that Troll speak effects the reading of our Allegiance.

Hmmm. I don’t see anything remotely flavor related in my Role PM. In light of the sample Miller PM not having flavor and Gamma’s statement I’m finding this suspect.

The flavor is a passive ability called Trollspeak, this ability returns allegiance investigations as mafia and no result to all other investigations. We also can not be neighborized due to this passive ability.

Not sure that a description of an ability should be classified as flavor. Sottyrulez allegiance needs further examination.

I do like the Plum vote ... hmmmmm.

I'm not sure how the description of our passive ability Trollspeak doesn't look like flavor. You're picking on semantics and that's silly. We don't have lines and lines of flavor or anything. It's one line explaining to us we're a miller. Zorblag is known for Trollspeak, so it's a sprinkle of flavor.

Someone (Hito I think) asked what the flavor with our miller claim was. So.... I'm not seeing your problem here.

~Sotty

[sottyrulez]

Just thought of something. sottyrulez, any flavor as for why a Priest(ess) of Troll is a miller?

Paraphrased, our flavor with being a miller is that Troll speak effects the reading of our Allegiance.

[sottyrulez]

Do you mean this?

Eh?

The flavor is a passive ability called Trollspeak, this ability returns allegiance investigations as mafia and no result to all other investigations. We also can not be neighborized due to this passive ability.

So does it actually say in the ability something like 'due to lack of understanding you can't be neighborized & your allegiance will be seen as mafia' or is it just the ability name and then a description of what it means game-wise?

Because, yes we did. On the same page no less.

I paraphrased the passive ability in about the same detail as how it's written in the role pm.

We are getting way too close to quoting our role PM than I would like in post 129 so that's all you will get from us.

To be clear, I used Hito's word flavor in response to his question. I also think having a ability called Trollspeak is a little sprinkling of flavor into our PM seeing as Troll is known for that.

Rereading through Gamma's miller claim, it actually looks very similar to ours, and in light of him claiming alignment, I'm going to point out that our alignment is also lawful evil which is another reason we believe him to be town.

~Sotty

[sottyrulez]

@VP: No opinion on Gamma's miller claim? You were more than willing to share a reaction to ours, but your reaction to his... not so much of one.

As far as your exchange with Magna. Unless you think his position on Almaster and the double day makes him likely scum, I don't see this exchange doing much more than taking up pages and wasting space.

[sottyrulez]

I said I think gamma is town...that should be a pretty clear indicator.

re:talking to Magna - you think I'm asking him for any other reason than to figure out his alignment?

What have you figured out?

@Hito: Sotty said she didn't want to give hints to other roles.

Is there a reason it matters?

[sottyrulez]

Hito, would you neighborize a claimed Miller?

~Sotty

[sottyrulez]

Hito, would you neighborize a claimed Miller?

~Sotty

I certainly would consider it...why not?

Because I would expect them to eat a vig bullet.

Made late in the game if they are still alive, otherwise it would be a waste IMO.

~Sotty

[sottyrulez]

Hito, would you neighborize a claimed Miller?

~Sotty

I certainly would consider it...why not?

Because I would expect them to eat a vig bullet.

Made late in the game if they are still alive, otherwise it would be a waste IMO.

~Sotty

Made = Maybe

Twice I get ninja'ed. Bah.

[sottyrulez]

Hito, would you neighborize a claimed Miller?

~Sotty

I certainly would consider it...why not?

The real question is whether or not we'd be expected to claim this were we not a miller.

[sottyrulez]

Hito, would you neighborize a claimed Miller?

~Sotty

I certainly would consider it...why not?

The real question is whether or not we'd be expected to claim this were we not a miller.

Well, I am just speaking theoretically, but if I was a neighborizor and I potentially wanted to stop a miller-viggin or a-lynchin, pulling you in with some night talk and trying to find your alignment in an up close and personal way wouldn't be a terrible idea. I think the inverse of what you said is actually the better play...ie, pull the miller in early to get an alignment before the vig shoots you. Just my feeling on it.

Yeah, that makes sense to me.

Sotty's just more in the camp that it's not a good idea because it's generally good practice to vig a claimed miller more than anything else.

We're leaning town on Parama (Don't really see his Magua case but don't find it scummy either.)

We're also finding Vas to be unusually defensive, which in our experience in playing with him is very much unlike him.

[sottyrulez]

By all other investigations, I was assuming role related investigations. We need to get clarification on whether that means untrackable or unwatchable.

[sottyrulez]

What changed between these two posts?

Nothing, you're reading the first wrong, that or I worded it poorly.

I have a

slight town read on Niki.

I know Mina jumps all over the place as town and

I'm not seeing scumMina asking about alignments like that.

Plum's post on them makes me uneasy [about Plum]. I need to see that play out some more.

Your wall on Niki made me uneasy about you. Following it up with another huge wall isn't doing you any favors.

~Sotty

[sottyrulez]

I understand 'big wall focusing entirely on attacks on someone I'm getting a townread off'.

I don't understand 'all wallposts are bed'.

There were about 7 pages between my two posts, and I had plenty I wanted to comment on. My question is where/why you switched from 'Plum is uneasy-making but not worth switching my vote' to 'Plum is worth my vote' (especially given that you said you needed to see it - I assume the me/Nicki Minaj interaction, and I assume you meant you needed to see more to judge whether your uneasiness with me was worth acting on).

The bold is something I never said. I will wall from time to time so.... No.

It boils down to me agreeing with Gamma and what he posted in his assessment of you. On page three of a Vi game with lots of great players, you come right in, balls to the wall with a case on Niki. No random vote, no joking with whoever, no nothing, not even a hello before you get right down to business. Considering the point of the game your post read as total overkill.

Scums ultimate goal is to look town. How do they look town? One great way is by making cases. I think you saw something in Niki that you could twist and push and just jumped all over it. Your post doesn't read like you are trying to figure out their alignment. It's more like you had locked in on your lynch target. The tone didn't feel town at all.

At the time Niki was somewhat the focus of the game and since then that has shifted. Not surprising your vote has jumped off them and over to another soft easy place. Parama isn't endearing himself to the town at all, it's a comfy landing for you outside the major wagons.

Overall I don't like it one bit.

I moved our vote because placing it on you to see your reaction was better than keeping it on Seraphim at that point. I made the right choice.

~Sotty

[sottyrulez]

Parama, I'm not saying you're a easy vote because you are a bad player. It is because you are posting in a way that pisses people off. Mr big shot forum bully style. Most people react to that kind of posting negatively regardless of actual content. Plum attacking you after going after Niki isn't surprising in the least.

Sottyrulez: Without getting into your specific Role PM, do you think that perhaps every player's Role PM would share certain similarities? Why or why not?

Having played in nearly all of Vi's modded games, her role PMs have been very similar in the last few games. So yes, I do think the PMs would share certain characteristics. I'm not seeing the point of this question at all however. We are not going to talk in any more detail about the wording in our role PM.

I prefer a Vas lynch over a quadz lynch at this point. He appeals to the player list on Parama and pulls the old "waa waa waa, why me?” trick with him and mothrax. His vote on mothrax is super weak and I don't even know who he thinks he is scum at this point. That's not the town Vas I have come to love.

Unvote, Vote: Vas

Parama you should get back on this wagon seeing as your vote is so lonely. Lets rock some competing wagons.

Still very much like Plum scum but not a lot is happening there right now.

~Sotty

Preview edit: In this game right here, Vi said Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game and it basically did. Ability fits claimed name perfectly.

[sottyrulez]

Dammit, ninja'ed by Gamma. But if you look at the player list of that game you'll see a lot the scum were good policy lynches. Xyl pushed most of them though

[sottyrulez]

What's so bad about appealing? I'm not too confident in my ability to read Parama, so I'm asking other people. This is scummy, why?
I've already adressed the "why me" stuff, so don't give me that bull again.
I don't get why my mothrax vote is weak. Care to say why?

Appealing to the crowd like you did enables you to back down from what you think and go with the flow. It's one thing to listen to what people say about your case and take it into consideration, quite another to bow to the mass opinion like you were looking to do here. Looks like an easy out for you.

I'll answer your last question with another question; is mothrax scum? Also, who else is scum?

~Sotty

[sottyrulez]

Yo Hito, missing something?

~Sotty

[sottyrulez]

The explanation I post should be clear on why I found Plum's walls scummy and it wasn't because "OMG WALLZ R BAD". Are you really trying to dispute otherwise?

~Sotty

[sottyrulez]

Case in point, I haven't commented on other peoples walls making them scummy.

[sottyrulez]

I'd also like to know if he expected us to claim that even if we weren't a miller.

[sottyrulez]

Well see, Sotty explained why she disliked the wall, and then it was oh, you did it again, so it's grating on me even more now.

Which is the way I'm seeing it vs you not liking the phrase "isn't doing you any favors."

-Zach

[sottyrulez]

The flavor is a passive ability called Trollspeak, this ability returns allegiance investigations as mafia and no result to all other investigations. We also can not be neighborized due to this passive ability.

Ninja? This is not just Miller, this is not being able to be accounted for by Watcher Tracker et al (and that besides the Neighborizer immunity). Hm. Not just a Miller claim indeed. Why didn't you mention the Ninjahood aspect of the power when you claimed Miller?

Now that I have the passive ability aspect of our role clarified to my satisfaction I will address this.

It's important to make the distinction between always returning

a negative result, and getting no result.

Frankly I'm surprised that you failed to make that distinction, and I don't like it...

Now to clarify. Watcher/tracker results targeting us will yield no result. Any other investigative powers that are designed to investigate anything but our allegiance will get no result. We are effectively untrackable, and unwatchable. Here's the other side of the coin though. Actions can be tracked to us, and actions we hypothetically target others with can also be watched.

So no, not a Ninja.

[sottyrulez]

^ Zach btw, the signature didn't go for some reason.

[sottyrulez]

NS wins scum points for asking us a pointless question about our role PM and not following up on it.

Duplicity, do you have a strong scum read on Seraphim?

I was starting to think quadz might be town mostly due to Singers reaction to him and having a stronger scum read on her. His 455 is pretty bad though, making his early questioning of his votes ring louder in my head. “Triple D has done nothing” holds little weight when there are other players that are just as guilty (Katsuki, mothrax, RayFrost, plus others hovering around this level of content despite posting lots.)

Seraphim questioning our miller claim is ick, but that could just be bias on my part. The rest of his posting was somewhat good even if I don't agree with all his reads.

Plum+Hito are my top scum reads right now, but quadz is climbing up there fast. Need to speak to Zach about moving our vote. Expect it to go either back to Plum or onto quadz.

~Sotty

[sottyrulez]

Fair enough

[sottyrulez]

I also want to note that NS hasn't voted once this game.

~Sotty

[sottyrulez]

I'm saying lynching mothrax is a bad idea because A. it's impossible to get an accurate read on him and B. from what I can read he's town.

Errrrm, A is a pretty good reason to take the double day if it applies.

Stating B does not resolve against A. Color me confused.

[sottyrulez]

Also on catchup Quadz is looking much scummier. His points on DDD as accurate as they are, apply to many other players including himself at the point he made that vote. It's particularly the fact that he goes after DDD for something he's also guilty of doing that doesn't sit well with me.

Willing to vote him, but not ready to end the day at this point.

- Zach

[sottyrulez]

The thing I really dislike about Singer is the issue she made about the Mothrax PM which arguably lead to the modkill. I can't help but think that was deliberate.

Vote: Quadz

He's scum too.

[sottyrulez]

Quadz is def. scum - meta reasons - totally different vibe in another game

Vote: Quadz

---

Also we need to work out a method for revealing N0 worship and checking out yesterday's faith results. For this to give us the most info, we should have every player reveal N0 worship before we start talking about faith for various combinations on N1.

I suggest popcorn* since it's faster than combining different people's scum lists to come up with claim order. (Day has started at 50%)

*Meaning the first person is selected randomly and he chooses the next person to claim N0 worship

With 4 players now dead and unable to claim this, I'm not sure how you think this can be reliably accomplished.

[sottyrulez]

The thing I really dislike about Singer is the issue she made about the Mothrax PM which arguably lead to the modkill. I can't help but think that was deliberate.

Vote: Quadz

He's scum too.

Erm. What?

Singer didn't make a big deal: AGM, demonic angels, and myself, IIRC, were the main people discussing it at the time the mod team came to a decision. Singer at most paid lip service to the topic, while AGM and DA were pushing heavily on it having an impact on the game.

I fail to see why you don't find them suspect and choose to instead single out SS.

That's the whole point. In fact singer at first said the PM sent was null later changing her tune to say she wanted the PM posted in thread so they can judge it. It doesn't matter she wasn't doing much after that request, the fact she made it and than let others bicker over it is enough. Why would she think Vi would agree to post that PM anyway? It was just more fuel to a fire she had already called null.

ScummyMcScum.

~Sotty

[sottyrulez]

...

Hi equinox. How's the whole reading up on the game thing going? Got any reads to share with us? How about a list of people you think are scum? CAn you do that for me?

That's going to be a little difficult.

[sottyrulez]

She's dead man.

[sottyrulez]

Vas is still up there on our scum reads Magna, it's just that there hasn't been much to add to beyond what we've said already + there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of excitement for wagoning him either.

[sottyrulez]

Speaking of which...why aren't you voting quadz MoI? KILLKILLKILLKILL

Because I'm not enthused at all of the circumstances we are in.

Quadz is the OBV-lynch and surprise suprise we have a short day which raises the already strong likelyhood he takes the rope.

Throw in the fact that many of the people who I have scum to maybe scum reads are pushing him and I'm a big ball of meh.

If I'm wrong I'm wrong but I smell set-up.

Don't drink the wine.

That said, I wouldn't mind joining wagon on Vas or Plum should one form. I think they're both good lynches at this point too.

[sottyrulez]

Plum's post 728 has misquoted us. Probably a simple mistake, but I want that out there as people read the thread.

Ninja means unTrackable and unWatchable - that is, return no result/didn't go anywhere/visit anybody - in my book. Thanks for clarifying. Power is nice and scummeh, though, but not conclusive in any way. I see DDD later leans town on Sottyrulez because he thinks the power is too strong for scum to have - the heck? It's a very useful scum power, sure, but with a game where insane amounts of action and power have the possibility of going down Ninja is a very viable scumpower. Ninja is, heck, basically a role made to help scum out when there are lots of action-detection powers going around. The doubt comes out of whether a scumbag would be bold enough to claim Ninjahood given its reputation or not. And given that it absolves Sottyrulez from accountability regarding any actions he's charged by the Town to make, if that ever happens . . . yeah. Furthermore - I did make the distinction between negative result/no result, just to clarify. It's possible I was using a different terminology than you expected, I suppose, but as far as I know it's pretty standard.

Blah, blah, blah.

The point is hypo-visit someone and if that someone is being watched we will be seen. AKA we aren't a ninja no matter how you try to twist it.

If it's 'grating' as opposed to scummy I get it. If it's 'dislike it in a scummy way' I don't. Clarify?

This is getting ridiculous.

I have explained this a couple of times now and only you and Hito “don't get it” and honestly I expect much better from the both of you.

• You post silly over kill wall on Niki, I find you scummy for said early and over kill wall.
  
• YOUR VERY NEXT POST IS ANOTHER OVERKILL WALL
  
• I look at it and go “ewww another? Well this isn't doing you any favours since I already found you scummy for doing just this.”
  
• I felt you were going over board to prove your towness. It felt fake. I said as much.
  
• I do not find walls inherently scummy, but I did find your entrance into the game quite scummy.

This is the last time I am explaining this. You keep trying to talk me in circles about it when it is more than clear.

Sottyrulez -

did

you ever evaluate my Parama case for sincerity beyond your impression that my target was too 'easy'?

I haven't looked at it since my initial reading, no. I've put it on my list of ISOs I need to do though.

Excuse me while I barf all over your miscalculations.

Sequence of events:
I said it was completely null.
Everyone and their mother said "this totally makes him town for no gawddamned reason."
I did not see why and said, "fine, if you're making it a town tell, make it a town tell."

No one but Mothrax caused his modkill.
In fact, no one but AGM called for it.
(zomgz AGM must be scumz for getting Mothrax modkilled )
((except he's totally town so...))

How exactly does that "barf over our miscalculations", you repeated exactly what I said, no? You went back on your “lets not break the game with outside factors” post to “omg post the PM!”

It's scummy.

= = = = = =

I love Seraphim for Post 847

Not swayed by VP's notion that MoI was lurking scum. We are leaning town on MoI, he tastes different that scumMoI that's for sure.

The DA slip is pretty good. Defo filed away for later.

quadz needs to hang today. His claim is awful as many have said, we just can't get over the fact he didn't doc Niki. Vote isn't moving. 100% agree with gamma about this.

Vas is still very much scum, as is Hito and Plum.

~Sotty

[sottyrulez]

Doublepost: Scum almost certainly have daytalk because the neighbors have daytalk, and VPB's #681 is almost certainly a scumslip.

So I say scum probably have daytalk, which was pointed out in the rules, and you say I'm scum because I said that. This is probably the first dumb thing I've ever heard you say Magua. Congrats.

You say they *do* have daytalk, which is *not* pointed out in the rules. In addition to that, when it's pointed out that it's not in the rules, your reaction isn't "Vi games always have daytalk", it's "Vi games always have daytalk and I would never make such a mistake and you're being an idiot."

It's that last part that seals it.

So, anyways, I'm really not liking the quadz lynch. It's too many people just repeatedly saying "quadz is scum" over and over and any argument is responded to with "quadz is still scum".

That said, I'm not sure I like the DA wagon at this point any better. I'm getting flashbacks to MoCO here, with the scum just pushing after the weaker players and town not bothering to try to differentiate scummy behavior from actual scum behavior.

Claiming of worships/domains is bad. However,

@ooba

, you've already claimed your domains. So claim your N1 faith, please. Don't need actions, don't need anything else, just want the faith total.

DA's slip is basically in the same camp as VP's. Why is VP's scummier?

Quadz is scum because he's done nothing and that was also his reasoning for going after DDD. (so now he can look like he is doing something.) The only thing that makes going after him today different from d1 is that he has a nice shiny looking roleclaim with action to throw in to make people waiver on lynching him.

[sottyrulez]

As has been pointed out by a few others, I was referring to Demonic Angel's ISO 40.

[sottyrulez]

^

If you are a vig, I would really appreciate you sending a bullet in this direction.

[sottyrulez]

Vote: Plum

Yeah...

[sottyrulez]

If there was a busser on Quadz, my money is on Demonic.

Also... WHERE THE HELL ARE THE PLUM VOTES? Like... srsly.

[sottyrulez]

Hi sottyrulez, MoI revealed him as scum with his poo-wagon attempt on me. THINGS CHANGE.

Also, what are your thoughts on massclaiming today?

Did you notice Plum started a weak push on you as well before he did?

PLUM IS SCUM. SING IT LIKE A SONG MAN!

Massclaiming? Eh, IDK, is there an upside to it I'm not seeing right now?

[sottyrulez]

I guess I can't really see any real downside to a massclaim at this point. I think I've got a pretty comprehensive townlist at this point to where I'm pretty confident in lynching everyone who's not on it.

[sottyrulez]

Oh, and I probably didn't say it explicitly enough, but I really don't see VP bussing quadz.

[sottyrulez]

I guess I can't really see any real downside to a massclaim at this point. I think I've got a pretty comprehensive townlist at this point to where I'm pretty confident in lynching everyone who's not on it.

Where do VP, MoI, DA and NS stand on that list?

VP's town, Moi has fallen on the list a bit in light of the quadz lynch and the events that have followed. I see DA as a possible Quadz busser, and NS really hasn't done anything, and hasn't had a vote active on either lynch. My experience with NS is that as bad as people might think he is... he will actually DO SOMETHING as town.

Town list as it stands now:

Almaster
DDD
Faraday
Ooba
Parama
Serephim
VP

The rest:

Toward Neutral:

Magua
Magnaofillusion
Nobody Special
Demonic Angel
Rayfrost
Plum

You are scum:

[sottyrulez]

Yep.

All that bark already netted two scum, and soon to be a third.

You aren’t voting for VPB and are voting me. Are you planning on netting him with a Night action?

--

Harhar, real clever!
Yeah, no.
_______________________________

So sotty, we're scum for bussing quadz, hito, and plum??



Ooba laying down the base for lynching us end of D2, and pushing it now is lols, especially given the flips.


Apparently everyone's impression of Fatesuki is that we like to do nothing except bus our entire scumteam.

Excuse me while I laugh.

Call it a gut feeling coupled with the fact that there seemed to be a lot more interest in VP's "slip" than in yours and it leaves me feeling a bit uneasy about your slot.

Good news is if you're actually town, it's possible we'll run out of scum to lynch long before we get to a point of actually wanting to lynch you.

[sottyrulez]

Oh, and I probably didn't say it explicitly enough, but I really don't see VP bussing quadz.

Why not?

The method and style of his play in the way he went after quadz seems consistent from what I expect from VP town. Also he had plenty of opportunities to leave the wagon... and no matter how hard someone might bus as scum, in a roleclaim who's entire purpose is to seed doubt, you would think that if there was multiple scum on the wagon, one of them might unvote to fuel doubt in the town. So, I really don't see it. (Should actually bump Demonic up my OTHERS list thinking about it.)

[sottyrulez]

I'd like my town reads to say whether they want me to claim my N2 action as Magua is requesting.

@MoI - you may as well give up, cause as I said before, your empty points are empty and I don't really care.

If claiming it actually helps with anything I'd say yeah.

Otherwise I don't see a point, and it's just rolefishing for the sake of rolefishing.

[sottyrulez]

^ Unless we're massclaiming of course.

[sottyrulez]

Clearly Magua is intimating a track or watch, so if people really want to know my N2 action we may as well get it on the table.

Oh I missed that.

I guess claim then...

[sottyrulez]

Call it a gut feeling coupled with the fact that there seemed to be a lot more interest in VP's "slip" than in yours and it leaves me feeling a bit uneasy about your slot.

Good news is if you're actually town, it's possible we'll run out of scum to lynch long before we get to a point of actually wanting to lynch you.

Illuminate me about DA's slip.

The method and style of his play in the way he went after quadz seems consistent from what I expect from VP town. Also he had plenty of opportunities to leave the wagon... and no matter how hard someone might bus as scum, in a roleclaim who's entire purpose is to seed doubt, you would think that if there was multiple scum on the wagon, one of them might unvote to fuel doubt in the town. So, I really don't see it. (Should actually bump Demonic up my OTHERS list thinking about it.)

The only person who left the wagon was AlmasterGM, and I've got a pretty good townread on Almaster. I think it's more a matter of the scum on the wagon either deciding to bus it for all its worth, or, waiting to see if the wagon falls apart, rather than being the first one off of it.

If there were multiple scum on it to begin with. My feel of the wagon, it's formation, and the scum resistance to it is that there probably weren't that many bussers on it if at all.

Look at this from my perspective.

You: Voting VP
Plum: Voting VP
Magna: Voting VP

You know what you all have in common? You were all opposed to the quadz wagon to some degree.

[sottyrulez]

(Should actually bump Demonic up my OTHERS list thinking about it.)

Does this mean you're moving him up or down the scum meter?

Less likely scum. Wasn't clear enough on that before, sorry.

[sottyrulez]

Call it a gut feeling coupled with the fact that there seemed to be a lot more interest in VP's "slip" than in yours and it leaves me feeling a bit uneasy about your slot.

Good news is if you're actually town, it's possible we'll run out of scum to lynch long before we get to a point of actually wanting to lynch you.

Illuminate me about DA's slip.

Answered this already on day 2.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 8#p3036078

[sottyrulez]

@Plum: I find DA's slip scummier if we're going to nitpick at things like that, but the reality of it is that true scumslips aren't as common as people sometimes make it out to be. I could see DA's as poor wording, and VP's as making an assumption based on mod meta. (Being that to my knowledge Vi likes scum daytalk a lot.)

[sottyrulez]

That's a lot of vig kills for VP to be claiming... but then again it's so ridiculous it's hard NOT to believe.

We absolutely should do everything we can to fill his faith.

[sottyrulez]

Plum's VP is SK vote is ridiculously scummy.

[sottyrulez]

Even if he is an SK, why is lynching an SK preferable to lynching scum in this situation?

[sottyrulez]

Why'd you Worship one of your own Domains N0?

We worshiped our own domains on N0 and N1. We didn't even realize until recent discussions that it was even possible to worship outside of your own domain. (Which is something we are now willing to do now that it's being proposed... I guess.)

Solism isn't one of our domains for the record.

Also, we have been debating disclosing this, and we're going to do it now because it makes me uneasy about worshiping Justice, and without disclosing this it's hard to explain why.

Singer worshiped Justice the night she was killed, which leads us to believe that worshiping Justice as we're planning to may net scum some kind of benefit.

[sottyrulez]

Even if VP is an SK, I'm not seeing a path to victory for him. It's not something I'm concerned about today.

[sottyrulez]

@Sottyrulez:

Is singersigner worshipped Justice the only information you have?

Yes.

[sottyrulez]

Scum would want VP's role eliminated as soon as possible regardless of being town or SK at this point, they can't afford to have him killing as many times as he claims he can. If VP is lying SK playing to a wincon that is contrary to any town plan, it will very quickly become apparent to the town and VP likely won't make it through an endgame situation.

Even entertaining the notion of lynching VP today is something incredibly stupid that only scum would support.

[sottyrulez]

Scum would want VP's role eliminated as soon as possible regardless of being town or SK at this point, they can't afford to have him killing as many times as he claims he can. If VP is lying SK playing to a wincon that is contrary to any town plan, it will very quickly become apparent to the town and VP likely won't make it through an endgame situation.

Even entertaining the notion of lynching VP today is something incredibly stupid that only scum would support.

Sigh ... I don't even ...

At this point scum's numbers are GREATLY diminished. They likely have at most 3 members remaining, and more likely 2. The is a sizeable amount of Town out there waiting to get a bullet.

The scum are just as likely to want VPB-SK around to help clearly Town player quickly. Otherwise the lack of additional kill each Night extends the game and makes Town much more likely of PoEing them. Furthermore chances of them being killed by VPB-SK are limited just based on numbers alone.

Look at Return to Liten. ThAdmiral was a claimed Vig would could possibly have been a Serial Killer. He was outed basically Day 1. The scum team (which I was a part of) kept him around and didn't even Role-block him Day 2 on until we came down to a single member much later in the game. Even if he was a Serial Killer he was doing Scum's work for them ... he kept killing of Town players.

He turned out to be a Vig but we didn't know that until he died. He killed at least 4 Town players for the scum team an was helpful in getting scum to a 3-way LYLO (that we lost, but not the point) when scum had lost half of their 4 man team to lynches by Night 2.

So no ... your reasoning isn't good.

^ That sounds similar to an argument I made as scum in a mini game when I was all alone against a vig a long long time ago.

Vig shots are basically extra lynches for the town, there's no reason to cede control of the killing to scum at this point.

Consequently, VP's death benefits players like you, plum, magua, and rayfrost the most who may happen to otherwise manage to talk your way out of the rope. Forgive me if I'm not exactly comfortable with the idea of people arguing for an outcome that benefits their own self preservation.

[sottyrulez]

I'm not buying super powerful VP serial killer that can quickly win as SK with these insane powers he has claimed.

If anything, if he's a serial killer he's lying about the number of kills he can perform and is going to have to go a lot deeper into the game with a lot of excuses to the point where I can't see a situation where we wouldn't be lynching him eventually if he managed to live that long. (I simply don't accept that he would have access to abilities that would allow him to kill that many people as an SK)

As for redirects and being redirected. Is that really a possibility that you want to sell us on as a legitimate theory with no evidence that redirection exists thus far? Claims like this only make us like our vote on you more.

The fears, I am not buying into them.

[sottyrulez]

I'm not buying super powerful VP serial killer that can quickly win as SK with these insane powers he has claimed.

As for redirects and being redirected. Is that really a possibility that you want to sell us on as a legitimate theory with no evidence that redirection exists thus far? Claims like this only make us like our vote on you more.

Your choice.

Also, what the hell are you talking about redirects and legitimate theories about? Clarity is tech.

Read Plum's post.

[sottyrulez]

P-edit: @VP, @Magua: Nobody having Solism is probably a point for SK-Solism theory of mine.

Let's say he is the only one with Solism, that's like the mod pointing a big giant finger at who the SK is. Mods usually help SKs, not hinder them.

[sottyrulez]

More Plum votes for great justice.

Seriously needs to happen.

[sottyrulez]

1. Has anyone worshiped Austerity?

We did N0.

[sottyrulez]

We confirm that we will be worshipping a VP domain tonight.

We'd also prefer a Plum lynch lots more that a MoI lynch but that doesn't look like it is going to happen, so sadface.

[sottyrulez]

Not sure I quite believe Ray claiming the Vas/Dram kill. I don't see a mention of him in Ray's ISO.

As for who we would vig, Plum should be obvious by now. But if you take her and MoI off the table, NS would be next. He still hasn't voted once all game. But if we're lynching NS now, I like a Parama vig of the players left.

[sottyrulez]

don't vig the guy with the pristine Rayfrost case please.

What do you think about his claims?

And Ray.. That sounds fair enough I suppose. Several people did ask for a Vas vigging.

[sottyrulez]

It should be noted that at the rate of current battery decay, we've probably only got a little over a day left to decide a lynch, and the game doesn't really seem to look like it's going to reach one in that time, so it's starting to worry me.

Based on what I've seen in regards to claims and what not, I'd rather not lynch Magna today, but will join the wagon if we don't make any progress toward others.

I still would very much like to see Plum lynched today, and my next preference would be Nobody Special. Does anyone really have a good argument why he shouldn't go on the rope?

[sottyrulez]

Vote: Plum

Seriously.

[sottyrulez]

There's an easy solution to this low battery.

Lynching Plumscum.

[sottyrulez]

NO

Plum's play is not going to be given a pass due to weak vc analysis. It is wholly unacceptable.

UNACCEPTABLE

[sottyrulez]

I am really,

really

sorry for my sparse activity lately. Life/work got very busy unexpectedly, but I've cleared most of that up this past weekend. Activity should be normal from here on out. I'm caught up with the thread, and ready to win.

Vote: Plum

Question: Am I being voted solely for lack of activity, or something else?

Something else? You haven't

done

anything else.

So you're caught up, why not drop some of that knowledge on the town seeing as you're here. Inquiring minds want to know your scum reads ASAP.

[sottyrulez]

Zorblag

Asceticism / Austerity

Lawful Evil

Passive ability Trollspeak: Investigate as mafia to allegiance investigations. Return no result to all other investigations. Can't be neighborized

Casts:

Keen Eye (1) Learn who or what target targeted during that night.
Guiding Plan (3) Gives target player 3 faith for use the following night.
Mass Order (4) Finds out all players who were targeted by actions for that night.
Direct Minions (4) Players who give us faith for night are forced to worship target domain the next night.

N0: Worshiped : Austerity
N1: (Gained 3 faith) Worshiped : Asceticism
N2: (Gained 2 faith) Keen Eye: Singersinger (She targeted Justice)
N3: (Gained no faith) Worshiped : Will

Rayfrost next.

[sottyrulez]

Also: DDD's powers are like... 100% antitown but I can't really follow why scum would honestclaim here.[/quote]

RayFrost and DDD claimed the same Domains (hahahaha Ythill and I have the same domains or what I am

rolling

).

I'm not inclined to believe there are two Townies with identical domains.

The question becomes are you really less than half the mafia player I hear you are and are pathetically playing out guess the mod here or if you're just scum fishing for an easy lynch.

This post says hi

Vote: DDD

Eh?

[sottyrulez]

EBWOP: Not sure why it posted the way it did up there.

What about my claim made your night plum?

Also: DDD's powers are like... 100% antitown but I can't really follow why scum would honestclaim here.

RayFrost and DDD claimed the same Domains (hahahaha Ythill and I have the same domains or what I am

rolling

).

I'm not inclined to believe there are two Townies with identical domains.

The question becomes are you really less than half the mafia player I hear you are and are pathetically playing out guess the mod here or if you're just scum fishing for an easy lynch.

This post says hi

Vote: DDD

Since I'm posting it again it seems like you conclude that the claim makes DDD less likely scum, but then it kinda feels like you look for a way to vote him anyway. It comes off feeling forced to me.

[sottyrulez]

I really hate that post.

The name of "reaction fishing" can be invoked to justify almost anything.

If you want to know who we think is scum, why don't you read our posts? I mean it's all there before we went and started ZZZZZZ when massclaim started.

Though something we haven't yet mentioned, Demonic's claim stands out to us, and not in a good way.

[sottyrulez]

Ninjaed. Was referencing Ray's 1827.

[sottyrulez]

Argh.

Unvote:

Don't want to concede our case on Plum, but the odds of her being scum just dropped. NS is more than an acceptable lynch.

(I was going to move to NS, but I think it might be the hammer at this point which would cut off massclaim.)

[sottyrulez]

Uh DDD it's a cop inno and my cop can only return inno on town.

There is the possibility of investigation immunity or that scum have powers to return bad results, but those possibilities are less likely than the result being accurate.

[sottyrulez]

I could see him reading allegiance as alignment.

It's something he needs to clarify though.

[sottyrulez]

unvote

Vote: DDD

Plum is now most likely town; DDD is my best read for scum.

I'll skip the AtE; but I'm town. I'll leave it to the town, and apologize again for my lack of activity.

What are your reads? Seriously, how many times do we have to ask this question before you bother to answer.

Seaphim I think NS is at l-2 at this point. That's a good buffer until we get this mass claim done anyway. Faraday needs to get in here.

[sottyrulez]

<3 Vi.

Also NS jumps right from Plum to Triple D with no explanation, these are the only two wagons that have even a slightest chance of going though outside his own. All game we've gotten practically no reads from him. The sooner we get done with mass claim, the sooner we can lynch the dodging obvscum.

[sottyrulez]

ooba, it's Sotty.

S-O-T-T-Y

No C. Like anywhere.

Seriously.

[sottyrulez]

This depresses me more than you know.

[sottyrulez]

Pretty sure ooba hammered.

If not

Vote: NS

[sottyrulez]

It's pretty clear why it should be NS. Outside of his lurking all game he has provided no real content, his only votes all game have come today on the only two people that have been counter wagons to him. Plum and Triple D. He explained neither vote, just like he has explained little of anything else in the game despite being "up-to-date". With Parana's result on Plum we prefer an NS lynch over Triple D for these reasons.

[sottyrulez]

I'll take DA for 100

Vote: DA

I much prefer going on info that comes from a confirmed townie as opposed to a player that's unflipped, particularly when that player can vig Parama anyway.

[sottyrulez]

Epic WIFOM is epic.

[sottyrulez]

There's no WIFOM, I'm scum and outed our team out of spite.

Shouldn't have bussed me so fuckin hard. It was uncalled for

And I'm Santa Claus.

[sottyrulez]

Except investigations on us other than allegiance aren't supposed to return a result.

[sottyrulez]

Wut.

[sottyrulez]

Ask Vi if my hypothetical role would return a result if you want.

Waiting on reply.

[sottyrulez]

Now I'm sad I was paranoid about Ray.

[sottyrulez]

lol, I think you missed the mod confirmation there buddy.

[sottyrulez]

Faraday isn't scum either.

[sottyrulez]

Tbh, I think you're one of the tigers.

[sottyrulez]

There isn't scum in us and faraday, Mod error has cleared that up.

Right now I'm thinking Plum+Parama but there is no need to rush into this.

[sottyrulez]

faraday, I'm stuck on seraphim town mostly because of this post.

We had zero faith and worshiped Austerity

[sottyrulez]

Exactly. Parama claimed a cop result on Plum when we were pushing her hard and starting to get a little momentum towards her lynch. Right now, those two together are the only thing that makes sense to me. Why would Parama, as an SK protect Plum "unknown" like that? When she has been so scummy as well. It would have been an easy mislynch for him right?

[sottyrulez]

Yeah, regardless of what he says, trying to save his buddy there would be a key move for end game. If he felt confident enough he could pull it off. I have little experience with Parama but he does strike me as the kinda guy who thinks he can bend people to his will should he need to.

[sottyrulez]

Well Zach has left work and is on his way home now, so lets not start voting until I can talk with him some more and he can post some more.

I'm very tempted by a Plum lynch too. How likely is it that there are two tigers + the SK left? I'm not much for game balance and I know you design a lot of games.

[sottyrulez]

Hmm true... There have been a ton of vigs.

Argh.

[sottyrulez]

Faraday if you listen to Parama it will make me sad.

[sottyrulez]

Scotty rulez?

[sottyrulez]

Ok, so prior to this day phase all of the kills were accounted for right?

I'm having a hard time believing that scum would claim kills that weren't theirs or that the SK wouldn't kill any scum that tried.

We need to look through and see who claimed what kills again.

[sottyrulez]

And by all kills I mean the kills we had claimed, and the ones that were presumably done by the tigers.

[sottyrulez]

Ok, so prior to this day phase all of the kills were accounted for right?

nope. we're missing who killed nicki minaj night 1 still. we're also missing who killed magua iirc. parama = death note right?

Ok, let's make this simpler.

I just noticed the Justice domain is still in the game, and Parama initially claimed it. His retraction leaves Justice unclaimed, and that's just not possible. Thus he has to be a Tiger.

[sottyrulez]

Ok, so prior to this day phase all of the kills were accounted for right?

nope. we're missing who killed nicki minaj night 1 still. we're also missing who killed magua iirc. parama = death note right?

Ok, let's make this simpler.

I just noticed the Justice domain is still in the game, and Parama initially claimed it. His retraction leaves Justice unclaimed, and that's just not possible. Thus he has to be a Tiger.

I thought parama's domains are justice and something else?

He retracted his Justice claim when he claimed SK, and claimed a different domain. But as far as I can tell Justice still exists as a domain.

[sottyrulez]

Vote Count XVIII:

It's go time
Nobody Special (LYNCH) ~ AlmasterGM, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Faraday, ooba, sottyrulez, Plum
Debonair Danny DiPietro (L-3) ~ Parama, Nobody Special, Demonic Angel

Minimum (L-6)

Not Voting:

Seraphim,

Plum,

RayFrost

Battery power:

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

|

||||

(24%)

----

--- Nobody Special --- High Priest of Cyberbob, and

Town

--- Brutally Assassinated Day 4.

-The Domain of Solism has been removed from the game.

Night 4's deadline is pretty much whenever I get back from V/LA, probably Monday night.

I am Tarhalindur, SK.
Vi says the rolename is recursive, as in:
Tarhalindur, _____ over Mafia
where the _____ is Tarhalindur, _____ over Mafia
so I'm just gonna go with that ^_^

Domains: Logic, Solism

Alignment: Neutral Evil

[sottyrulez]

Busted scum is busted. More incoming....

[sottyrulez]

Okay, domains listed in the opening posts:

Asceticism
Austerity
Balance
Concision
Fervor
Justice
Logic
Solism
Syncretism
Verbosity
Whimsy
Will

Fevor and will are eliminated at the start of day four
Solism was eliminated day four (long after Prama is claiming to have switched to it)
Syncretism and Whimsy were eliminated at the start of today leaving:


Asceticism -us + Seraphim

Austerity -us + Seraphim

Balance -faraday

Concision - faraday

Justice ?? prob Prama

Logic - Plum

Verbosity -Plum

Prama is so obviously lying, justice is still in play and he has it. The fact that Seraphim doubles up with us makes us very weary of him now. If he is scum... Wow. Also noted is that there is a domian of doom that was apparently in mourning at the start of day four.

[sottyrulez]

Oh, I see what Parama claimed.

If he poly morphed like he claims, Justice shouldn't be in the game.

I find it easier to believe he still has Justice like he originally claimed and that he's actually a Tiger.

[sottyrulez]

Wait yeah, I have it backwards. Hold on.

[sottyrulez]

Yeah, he's claiming to have shifted his domain from Soilism to Justice... however, when he claims SK. He claims Soilism, not Justice.

Why would you claim the original domain you poly morphed from if you no longer are in that domain?

[sottyrulez]

Yeah, that's plausible, but meh.

Entertaining the notion that you're an SK. If you still have NK immunity shots, we'd basically be picking who wins the game at this point, and since there's a pretty good chance you're actually scum... well, you can see where I'm going with this.

But yeah, want to see what Plum has to say now.

[sottyrulez]

Plum says "ROAAAAR"

So you can look back on this and remember that you stopped her lynch from happening.

[sottyrulez]

yeah I did d(''d)

the problem with that?

Just enjoying the irony of the fact that you want her lynched now to save your sorry behind.

[sottyrulez]

Still need to hear from Plum, but I think Parama is the play today.

[sottyrulez]

Basically works out to this. Parama scum w/Serephim or Plum is the only real path I see to town victory.

Parama SK with Serephim/Plum scum is bleak no matter what we do.

[sottyrulez]

i aint hesitating. last time I did that in LYLO I lost, fuck that noise.

Basically what Seraphim and Plum do next will tell us everything we want to know about what Parama really is.

[sottyrulez]

though that comment only served to make me twice as nervous >_>

If he's SK we've almost certainly already lost.

And TBH I'd rather lose to Seraphim/Plum than to Parama anyway.

[sottyrulez]

While we wait... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Wi8Fv0AJA4

[sottyrulez]

you've almost certainly lost ^.^

that's mean though. you jerk.

Maybe if you had bothered to say Sotty's name right we'd be more inclined.

[sottyrulez]

i'm intentionally mispelling your name

just like i misspelled mispelling.

Yeah, that's the point.

[sottyrulez]

What?

You expect me to type with perfect grammar and spelling?

You ask too much of me, good sir.

Spelling her name Sotty instead of Scotty is not asking for perfect grammar and spelling. It's a perfectly reasonable request.

[sottyrulez]

Oh hey, we missed the action.

[sottyrulez]

And Faraday. DO NOT VOTE PLUM UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

I am pretty sure Parama and Serephim are trying to coordinate a quick hammer.

[sottyrulez]

We're doing some legwork on the claimed vigs and trying to pin down the scum kills in determining Parama's alignment.

[sottyrulez]

Serephim claimed kills on Duplicity and Singer on Nights 1 and 2 respectively.

The scumtranslocater 5000 has determined that the kill flavors

do not match.

3) Duplicity (Regfan+gorilla) - High Priest of Adel -

Town

- Shot Night 1...
20) singersigner - High Priestess of Fate -

T

I

G

E

R

- Embraced Destiny's Bond Night 2.

[sottyrulez]

Info dump up coming.....

Kills

Night one

Duplicity - shot -

Claimed Seraphim kill

Equi - pwned -

Claimed Parma kill

Nicki Minaj - Inexplicably Mutated -

Unclaimed

Night two

Gamma - went splat -

Claimed Parma kill

Hito - mowed down -

VP confirmed kill

singersinger - Embraced Destiny's Bond -

Claimed Seraphim kill

Dram - Struck by lighting

Ray frost confirmed kill

Night three

Magua - Inexplicably Mutated -

Unclaimed

VP - Suicided -

Claimed Parma kill

Night four

ooba - Suicided -

Claimed Parma kill

Night five

AlmasterGM - Embraced CHESSKID -

Claimed Parma kill

Ray Frost - Simply Rolled into Mordor -

Unclaimed

Triple D - Pressed flat -

Claimed Plum kill

Claimed vig abilities (Not including Parama)

Faraday - Weak vig (worship 13 times) - 1

Confirmed non flip

NS - Reactive vig (Kills whoever targets him) 3

Confirmed via flip

ooba - Grant vig (6)

Confirmed via flip

Plum - Restrictive vig (Chaotic only) 3

??????

Ray - Unrestricted vig (struck by lighting) 4

Confirmed via flip

Seraphim - Restrictive vig (Least votes) 2

??????

VP - Unrestricted vig (1 shot, 2 shot, 3 shot) 3, 7, 10

Confirmed via flip

[sottyrulez]

Notes

- There are only three unclaimed kills all happen on odd nights
- Night two all kills are claimed. If everyone is telling the truth, which is the scum kill?
- Same thing for night four
- ooba granted Parama and Seraphim tracks on night 2. We also strongly believe Plum's claim of a vig grant night 4
- Parama has never claimed his tracks
- Seraphim hasn't claimed a night 5 track
- Seraphim tracked dead townie VP night three and roleblocked Faraday night four. These are very convenient claims.
- Was Plum able to select her own vig kill flavor? What flavor came with her notice of vig power?
- Lots of vig abilities makes for a swingy game.
- Seraphim's vig ability costs the least amount of faith of all claimed vigs
- Seraphim's vig shots do not match in flavor

[sottyrulez]

Dear Faraday,

It is now... 3:38am and we have just spent the last two hours reading and talking ourselves though this thread. Please don't listen to anyone else who is trying to get you to vote, they are playing on your emotions. We are really close, we need to talk this though before settling on a plan of action.

We sleep now.

<3 sottyrulez.

[sottyrulez]

I could ask the mod but as far as I know, my kill flavor was random.

Not buying that, because as you said we have had repeated kill flavors.

"Inexplicably Mutated" happened TWICE as a kill flavor. Both of these kills are unclaimed. The only other repeated kill flavor is "suicided".

Also forgot that we have two "embraced" type flavors.

singersinger - Embraced Destiny's Bond -

Claimed Seraphim kill

*Snip*

AlmasterGM - Embraced CHESSKID -

Claimed Parma kill

Both claimed by two different people.

[sottyrulez]

Seraphim hasn't claimed a night 5 track

Cuz I worshiped Justice. Which turns out to have been a bad idea but I didn't expect RayFrost to die either. I am a full tracker.

I'm not sure why you would follow a busted night action plan at that point rather than track Parama for example. I didn't realize you couldn't use your track and your worship/casts in the same night. So that explains why Parama has no tracks.

Also Faraday very interested in hearing your plan. We have the workings of our own right now as well but we can wait for your glorious return before setting it out.

[sottyrulez]

You're really going to quote Parama's kill flavors as a get out of jail thing here? Yeah, no. I don't trust anything he says.

Let me check the AGM track and I'll get back to you.

[sottyrulez]

Okay you're right. But as I was saying to Zach last night, I think you're the possible scum roleblocker. I no longer think you killed singersinger and you could easily be the player who RB'ed Faraday which is why you claimed your result before he posted that day. Knowing there are trackers out there, hyposcum you would have had to have actually visited Faraday to make sure it all added up.

But yes, a lot of this is speculation and really when we break it down Parama is still the best lynch here. I'm not buying the argument of "random" kill flavors when we have repeating flavors here. How does that make sense? Wouldn't that be bastardy of Vi?

I still need to read some more as well... So yeah.

[sottyrulez]

While I remember, Seraphim can you paraphrase the tracking flavor/description you got for me?

[sottyrulez]

We're here now reading and catching up. Sotty wants to do an info dump which will contain a vote for Parama.

Another surprise to throw out there. We worshiped our own domain during the last night phase, so we'll be able to track tonight.

[sottyrulez]

Faraday you genius, that was pretty much the exact plan we came up with last night. The working title is “Everyone target Seraphim and profit”

We totally agree with your conclusions about Parama 2234 and that he has to be the lynch. Worse case scenario is that is telling the truth, he is the SK and Plum and Seraphim are the final scum. I can eat that loss.

What I feel is more likely is that there is no SK in this set up and instead scum get the chance for extra kills via faith. Zach has said since the start of the game that the flavour of the game doesn't suit an SK seeing as it is tigers v MS. But I said that Vi's last game didn't suit a SK either and look what happened there...

Anyway, upon further review I don't believe Seraphim killed both singer and Duplicity. The kills not matching is just too much for me to swallow. Random kill flavours while having others repeat is just too damming.

We also came to the same conclusion Plum did about the “embraced...” flavour in that it sounds a lot like it could match Parama's meta break. We know Singer was worshiping Justice night two, it is possible that she had that domain at some point. After ooba asked people to worship justice, hyposcum Parama saw this as a chance to possibly kill ooba but something happened and he ended up killing singer instead.

We basically think that Singers death was a mistake that scum have tried to use it to confirm Seraphim since he claimed it. The “Arms spread wide” theory is that scum wouldn't shoot scum and so the kill

must

be town. Using this logic, Seraphim should not be alive. Point blank, scum should have killed him the day he claimed to have shot scum. No one contested this shot, no one was really contesting Seraphim town other that AGM who has ended up dead. I don't think this was the plan like with Hascow, but I do think the scum have used what should have been a catastrophic night for them to their advantage.

Seraphim trying to pass singers kill flavour as a joke is just all kinds of wtf. He was also lurking when the game first opened today. Back when we had just been confirmed via mod error Faraday, and Parama was trying to get you to vote Plum. Seraphim was on the boards watching what was happening but doing very little posting. I noticed his name several times when I posted and the longer it went on the more I didn't like it.

I actually think Seraphim's kill flavor is the mutated one that is unclaimed. But now I am just totally speculating and letting my mind run off. So yeah...

But yes, we lynch Parama and then if the game is still happening and it's not Plum+Seraphim scum everyone aims at Seraphim tonight.

If he is the roleblocker like I suspect he cannot block us all and will have to block Plum and kill one of us or Faraday. But thankfully both of us have investigations that can be used tonight. Either Faraday will figure out he has a QT or we'll track him on his killing spree.

If Plum is scum

I will cry

with a double kill, then it was nice knowing you. Otherwise the game is still winnable.

I was skimming Seraphim's ISO and he was setting up his vig power up early so now I am becoming paranoid that singer was a cross kill and Parama's flavor over wrote Seraphim's? Ah fuck it.... We have to lynch Parama no matter who the other scum is so lets just do that already.

Vote: Parama

Dammit, I hope this works.

Didn't help Vi using a Lemmings theme as her VC music. ARGH.

LETS LYNCH FARADAY. IT'S BEEN AN HONOR.