Mafia MetaMafia ~ Game Over!

[ooba]

Hey.

I have a pretty sweet role. Used properly, I should be able to give the town an edge.

However for all this I need the Faith so that I can use my casts. I've thought about this and think coming out in the open and asking for worship would be the best strategy.

Please worship

Justice

(or)

Balance

.

---

I asked Vi when we'll get worship results and he said each person will know how much faith they received at the beginning of the night.

---

I cannot disprove the theory that Alignment is indicative of Allegiance.

[ooba]

We should lynch people because they're scummy - not because its free.

I would have rather you brought this discussion up towards the end of the day - aka after people had reads on mothrax. Anyway discussing this now is a waste of time and we can re-evaluate the lynch option close to the end of day.

For what its worth, I can see this as a power for both scum/town. But you go into my town books since reasoning/arguing seems genuine enough.

[ooba]

- Gamma is town.
- I would say sottyrulez is leaning town - (I'd expect Vi to be devious and add flavor for one miller while striping it from another) - but paranoia keeps me trusting SR totally ..
- Town read on Parama (Reactions)

Vote: hitogoroshi

- I did not like the push on AGM
- Particularly got a very bad vibe from the vote on Parama
- Spec in post.183 does not seem genuine

---

I do not think we should mass-claiming domains now. However, I think the possibility of mass-claiming if you worshiped N0 and what you worshiped should be considered.
Pro:
- Locks people into claims. We can compare with Faith results on N1 and narrow down if anybody lied.
Con:
- Scum might get an idea of people with power roles\good casts if they claim "Not worshipped on N0"

I'm leaning towards the info beating out the possible disadvantage.

[ooba]

@ooba – I see you are also avoiding discussing any VV read. Your thoughts?

Anger, OMGUS voting are all signs of VV town. It's been a year since I played him last so will have to read some of his more recent games to see if he's used his town meta to his advantage as scum.

---

Ooba: Do you think we *shouldn't* stay off whatever domain has the most worships tonight?

Thought about scum WIFOMing by not worshiping the domain(s) of the member who has the best casts. However, with 12 domains, the payoff of WIFOMing by worshiping Justice (hypothetically) just so that town won't worship in the future seems small. So yes, we should stay off whatever domain had the most worships on N0.

If you did worship N0, or you don't have enough faith to cast *anything*, you should worship. If your total faith is 3 or less, worship one of your own domains. If your total faith is 4+, you are best off worshipping one of your non-domains, and if your total faith is 6+, you're best off worshipping the opposite of one of your domains (this is under the assumption that no one has a domain and its opposite).

This is a good plan.

---

Agree with Duplicity's ISO 6 (Just remove Singersinger, Equinox from the Town list and add Scottrulez to it)

[ooba]

I can see a hito-Quadz pairing ..

Unvote. Vote: Quadz

L-2 ..

[ooba]

Quadz is def. scum - meta reasons - totally different vibe in another game

Vote: Quadz

---

Also we need to work out a method for revealing N0 worship and checking out yesterday's faith results. For this to give us the most info, we should have every player reveal N0 worship before we start talking about faith for various combinations on N1.

I suggest popcorn* since it's faster than combining different people's scum lists to come up with claim order. (Day has started at 50%)

*Meaning the first person is selected randomly and he chooses the next person to claim N0 worship

[ooba]

1) AlmasterGM
2) Debonair Danny DiPietro
5) Faraday
6) Gammagooey
7) hitogoroshi
8) Demonic Angel replacing Katsuki D1
9) MagnaofIllusion
10) Magua
13) Nobody Special
14) ooba
15) Parama
16) Plum
17) quadz08
18) RayFrost
19) Seraphim
20) singersigner
21) sottyrulez (Sotty7+zachrulez)
22) VasudeVa
23) VP Baltar

Original Roll String: 1d19

1 19-Sided Dice: (19) = 19

[ooba]

That's VPB ..

[ooba]

With 4 players now dead and unable to claim this, I'm not sure how you think this can be reliably accomplished.

We can try and guess on what they worshipped based on the gaps between N0 and faith.
(or)
We can
- Claim faith received first on N1 claim - followed by domain claim .. That way the dead players won't play a part in it ..

[ooba]

I'm confused about this whole reveal worship business. Can you explain it to me? How do we know what domains were worshiped so we can check them? I don't mind going first. I just haven't understood that part of the setup discussion really.

Ya hold on till more people weigh on this, but this is my proposal (junked the initial plan because of scotty's point):
- All players claim faith received yesterday (on N1)
- We then have players claiming their two Domains
Outcome:
- We will be able to narrow down how many individuals worships each domain got
-- That way we can avoid worshiping the domain with the most votes
- *Also if people lie, we may be able to narrow it down

P-edit:
In which case, I'll vote for Quadz to start the claiming ..

[ooba]

Post 5 - Thu May 05, 2011 7:04 am (100%)
Post 283 - Fri May 06, 2011 7:02 am (96%)
Post 438 - Sat May 07, 2011 6:48 am (90%)
Post 532 - Sun May 08, 2011 6:32 am (80%)
Post 657 - May 08, 2011 6:24 pm (73%)

4% = 1438 min, 45 vote changes, 278 posts
6% = 1424 min, 5 vote changes, 155 posts
10% = 1424 min, 1 vote change, 94 posts
7% = 712 min, 2 vote change, 125 posts

Battery usage proportional to time spent and inversely proportional to number of vote changes and posts.

Default reduction in percentage:
-11% for a day (1440 min)

Battery addition (or drainage reduction) for posting - Number of Posts between vote counts
50 - 99: +1%
100 - 149: +2%
>150: +3%

Battery addition (or drainage reduction) for voting - Number of vote switches between vote counts
5-9: +2%
9-24: +3%
>25: +4%

Works for all VC except the last (7%). I'll refine this as more VC's come up .. Therefore if I had to estimate from yesterday's usage - we have a week till deadline for 50% ..

[ooba]

We definitely need to do a faith claim + a domain claim ..

[ooba]

Did Duplicity have it right when he said {Quadz,Hito,Plum,VPB} - Not sure about VPB but the other three seem bang on ..

---

We need to claim do a faith + domain claim so that we can work in a plan for worships ..
- Need to figure out what the scum top domains are so that we can avoid them

[ooba]

For those of you who think Quadz is town just because of the neighbourize, you need to realize that Quadz-scum could have still worshipped N0 and neighborized singer N1 where neighbor is a Power role ability instead of a cast.

---

I think a better way to go about that is, seeing as he's already claimed his domains, we should ask him: @ooba: How much faith did you have N1?

If we're doing these claims - we're doing it properly.
We will have to do a faith claim followed by a domain claim (aka everyone first claims faith and then claims domain - Gamma's order is fine). Three possibilities:
1) Scum restricted to a few domains: They will have to fake the domain claims
2) Scum spread out across domains but concentrated faith in their most powerful-member's domain: They will have to fake the faith claims.
3) Scum spread out but worshiped their own domains instead of a concentrated approach: By claiming and attempting to discuss what domains were worshiped, you're putting the scum in a position where they will have to decide between concentrating faith and having the risk of town shunning that domain or spreading it out at a loss of power.

A player with over 3 faith N1 who worships one or both of Justice or Balance should claim their domains and N1 faith.

So why Justice and Balance alone - because I asked for worship in those domains? Ideally we should figure out the entire spread of faith for every night to see how people are worshiping.

Other scum: hito (policy lynch dealio yesterday), ooba (posting lots of IIOA, playing the town manager/setup-breaker to avoid scumhunting)

My posts talk about who I think are scummy - you might know that if you actually read the posts.

[ooba]

Yeah, we need scumlynches, but of course you know quadz is scum thanks to your telepathic knowledge, amirite? REASONING IS PRO-TOWN.

It's meta for me - a player plays distinctly different in two games - can't say more - please feel free to search for the game I'm referring to ..

[ooba]

@Ray - you've never played with a person simultaneously in two games and think "Hey, he's of different alignments in both?" - that's my reasoning .. Not saying more because I don't want to tempt another modkill ..

---

@Hito,

- While I think you have it right at 6 scum - I would wager that they are not in the same team. I have a kick-ass cast at 6 faith - assuming equal power ratios of {Cast usefulness/faith} for scum and town, 4-5 scum boosting would make it too unbalanced.

- And since we're discussing setup, I think scum might be split on these lines - the "pwned" kill makes me think of scummers who generally frequent scum chat - more into intuition, lightheartedness vs traditional scum who uses posts of logic to manipulate people.
Scum chat Mafia - Fervor, Concision, Whimsy, Will, Justice, Syncretism\Solism
Old school Mafia - Balance, Austerity, Asceticism, Verbosity, Logic, Syncretism\Solism
I just cannot work in the "Inexplicably Mutated" bit into this theory .. "Shot" seems more traditional but why would a vig kill Nikki Minaj?

- Also - just had a thought, I think each town domains will be composed of one domain in the first list and one in the second list because if town boosts a particular townie - say me (Justice + Balance) then both teams benefit to some extent, instead of it being lopsided

---

Claiming of worships/domains is bad. However, @ooba, you've already claimed your domains. So claim your N1 faith, please.

Hmm, I'd rather we figure out the worship/domain system sooner rather than later. Anyway,

Justice+Balance faith on N1=2

---

Speaking of Ooba, need to co-ordinate night actions and worships. As it is I bet everyone's just herp derping around horsewhipping (auto-correct lulz, I'll leave it) their own god becase they think their role is the sexiest, but then none of us have enough faith to do anything.

Good to see you in the game Fate - Think we'll work something out by the end of today.

[ooba]

- Plum is actually a town read for me after the re-read yesterday.
- Magua - Hito links plus Magua defending Quadz Looks bad but would scum be that blatantly obvious was the thought I had (then again Hito scum was obvious too)

Will reread again with the new flips. Brb.

[ooba]

I've now read the thread twice in the space of three days and have a pretty good grip on the game.

Strong town reads

Faraday
Magua (Refined earlier read after second run through)
- Also

Magua, were you neighbors with Hito?

Seraphim
Parama
AlGM* (Refer to NS case below)

Town reads

Plum - Vibe from posting + interactions. I would say Plum is definitely not a tiger.
DDD - Quadz case was lulzy but did not look like scum weak bussing
scottyrulez - Can't pin down to specifics but general vibe
Rayfrost - Weaker town read boosted by Sera's statement

Rest

This list follows from PoE. For and against points for each of them being scum listed at the side. I've arranged the player's in increasing order of scumminess.
VPB
- Against: Post 848 where he lists Quadz, hito and singer as scum reads
MoI
- For: Not voting Quadz
- Against: singer's attack on MoI for tunneling VV and ignoring quadz - does not seem like bussing
DA
- For: Baited the modkill on mothrax by dragging out RayFrost's "Lets not discussthe PM" post
- For: singer jumping on Kat for the hydra thing - this does look like scum on scum
- For: Quadz lists Katz as scummish as of 455

Strong scum read - NS

My strongest read - this is definitely the person who we should lynch today.
1) Scum linking AlGM and NS
Both singer and hito go out of their way to say that they would have chosen NS over mothrax. hito's push earlier in the day on AGM was weird. So was this statement by singer

OMG AGM WHEN YOU HAVE A POLICY LYNCH USE IT ON NOBODY SPECIAL. ALL. THE. TIME.
(but seriously...WUT...you're gunna have to explain that one)

My thoughts on this: singer\hito played up the "Why didn't you choose NS angle?" because they can go back and point fingers at AlGM once NS flipped scum.
2) I consider it a tell when scum go out of their way to mention someone - esp. when there is no substantial point that they are making

I want to call NS town, but... he NEVER seems town. Ffffffff. My scumpass is spinning everywhichaway on NS.

---

Long story short - I think NS and DA are scum.

Unvote. Vote: NS

[ooba]

@Sera, I really don't think it was to get AlGM lynched (that wasn't going to happen anyway) - If you have NS as your scum partner and AlGM chose a different target, then I pretty much would do what they did - Just drop that association there to be used later in case NS is lynched\vigged ..

(I could see them doing the same if AlGM was a scum partner who had that power - Let AlGM choose a different target than NS - then associate AlGM\NS so that you can lynch NS later in case AlGM is lynched\vigged .. In fact hito saying "NS policy" is a point for this .. But AlGM's arguing looked like it came from town)

@Faraday, it wasn't the fact that he mentioned NS which I have a problem with. It was hito going after AlGM when he was clearly town .. And that statement from singer was odd and out of place ..

---

P-edit: VPB, I clearly mention that it's from Poe there. I have town reads on everyone above you in that list. And I've listed that as a reason for you not being scum (hence Against) - which is why you find yourself at the top of that list.

---

Although I have a bad history of reading Plum in games of mine, gut tells me she is not a tiger this game. Plum is not the way to go today ..

[ooba]

Also, while I remember, seems to me like the setup could be something like 5 Tigers, 1 Tarhalindur, lots of town vigs. Just my thoughts.

I would guess its 6+1 SK. And I still stick by my earlier statement that 6 scum in the same team coordinating worship together would be too powerful. Now, I am guessing it is a single Mafia faction of 6 tigers but split into two groups of 3.

And they say there's a kernel of truth to every lie and Quadz might not have been lying when he said he neighbor-ized singer. After all if it is two groups of three, you'd expect scum to have some neighborizing powers to get in contact with the other team.

[ooba]

Anyhow, tl;dr, we can do much better than gut at this point.

This is a game of intuition - at the end of the day, you might build a big case-wall post but doesn't change the fact that everything stems from gut.

Do you see scum going "All eggs in one basket?" and using the entire team to protect Quadz. Whatever his power may be - scum wouldn't risk committing the entire team so that they can save one.

---

One of MoI and VV is probably scum, but I'm leaning the latter in this case.

Also what happened to this? MoI was already on your scumdar and did not vote Quadz. VV flipped town too.

[ooba]

Great, keep giving me the benefit. Also, random Q: would it be worthwhile for people to claim faith totals from last night? I've got thoughts that I want to share but am unsure about that regard faith stuff, so yeah.

I'd like to take a page from oGaM and suggest that the time is right for a massclaim ..

[ooba]

I'd support an MoI lynch but NS/DA are still superior lynches in my book ..

---

oGaM=Of Gods and Men.

And by massclaim, I mean everything.
- Rolename
- Domain
- Abilities
- Casts
- Faith + Night Actions

[ooba]

Your points are noted. I'd like to see what everyone has to say on the massclaim bit.

VP, what are your thoughts on DA and NS?

[ooba]

I was right that there's no way that quadz-scum would neighborize someone instead of doing something more productive with his time, like killing.

Split scum teams is an incentive to neighborize people you think are other scum.. Your thoughts on that theory?

[ooba]

Baltar is also a terrible vote.

Never voted Baltar. Nice work trying to play him up though.

---

Unvote. Vote: DA

- I think VP not claiming is a town-tell (as opposed to DA who claimed "HP of DDD" just for the lulz")
Join me peeps.

---

MoI, if you really believe that one of VP/DA are scum, then you should vote for DA. The Vig can take care of NS post DA flip after he sees that I've been right on all my reads this game ..

[ooba]

I guess I can't really see any real downside to a massclaim at this point. I think I've got a pretty comprehensive townlist at this point to where I'm pretty confident in lynching everyone who's not on it.

Where do VP, MoI, DA and NS stand on that list?

[ooba]

Laugh all you want Fate .. Don't see how you're going to survive till endgame anyway ..

And because Magua asked,

Justice

(or)

Balance

worships would be great if you can spare it..

[ooba]

(Should actually bump Demonic up my OTHERS list thinking about it.)

Does this mean you're moving him up or down the scum meter?

---

Actually no, not really. The vig's thus far have proven that they at least have a brain.

Putting quadz and hito on a scum list with town ray and plum does not equate to "bussing your entire scum team" ..

---

Sorry to repeat this but on the worship front, unless
- someone thinks I'm scum
- or wants to speak up saying they need it more (which I doubt - my casts are *that* good)
you should worship one of my domains. (

Justice

or

Balance

).

You should see immense tangible benefits of my actions from tonight.

[ooba]

@Plum: Farside ?

@VP: You've hinted at it. May as well claim the particular night action.

[ooba]

I'm debating if I should just claim both of my domains...that way town members can worship whichever domain helps themselves and me in the process. This is a precautionary measure in case I die, which is likely now. Additionally, since I have the target on my back, I will claim all my night actions if people think it's beneficial. I'll keep my abilities and alignment to myself for now.

Nothing common to Justice or Balance?

[ooba]

@Faraday

I am the High Priest of DrippingGoofball. My domains are Syncretism and Whimsy. My alignment is Chaotic Evil.

@VP
Damn it ..
Also the battery thing is a cast? What is the ability name?

[ooba]

Yeah, most Vi batteries end up at 2 week days normally given optimal posting conditions. So if we stay active, I would guess around a week too.

This post where VP replied to my battery spec is a sign that he's telling the truth about that. Anybody who screwed around with the battery would have commented on that.

[ooba]

VPB only requires 2/5 (who aren't him) to follow the plan to get 2 vig shots.
ooba's requirements are hazy, but I'm going to assume he requires 4/6 (who aren't him) to follow the plan to be useful, might be more.

I have good casts at 4/5/6 with increasing power levels.

Also since I am not going to get either of my lynches - I'll

Unvote. Vote: MoI

Preferable to Plum/Ray.

DDD, I saw what you saw but didn't see the need in pushing him to claim.

[ooba]

Just doing some reshuffling. (I'll claim why I did this during MC)

Team VPB: VP Baltar, Demonic Angel, RayFrost, sottyrulez, Parama, Seraphim
Team ooba: ooba, AlmasterGM, Faraday, MagnaofIllusion, Nobody Special, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Plum

Magua - Will go to team list in which a player is lynched today.

[ooba]

Just doing some reshuffling. (I'll claim why I did this during MC)

Team VPB: VP Baltar, Demonic Angel, sottyrulez, Parama, Seraphim, Faraday
Team ooba: ooba, AlmasterGM, MagnaofIllusion, Nobody Special, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Plum, RayFrost

Magua - Will go to team list in which a player is lynched today.

[ooba]

Since I only need two worships for my double vig, I wouldn't mind having two v. likely town and the rest v. likely scum on my team. That way the scum are either forced to worship Solism or build more incriminating data against themselves. Thoughts?

Keep in mind that townies who have useful abilities might be better off using that instead of worshiping - therefore if someone did not worship, they better be able to convince the town that the tradeoff was worth it ..

P-edit: Reading Magna's post

[ooba]

Magna's claim can be confirmed tonight - this part I mean:

2. Moderation – Any cast that takes more than 2 faith are blocked that Night.

N2 I used Moderation – my theory being that scum are more likely to have generated concentrated faith for themselves and thus were more likely to be benefited by large faith casts than Town.

I am pissed off at that action if you're town though ..

[ooba]

Also, I used an ability that cost four faith last night. It resolved just fine. Just caught up to the fact he's claiming to have use it last night.

Likewise, I used a cast>2 last night but will get to know if it resolves only tonight ..

[ooba]

So RayFrost used an ability and it went through, but ooba had his action delayed?

So that means either 1) RayFrost was specifically roleblocked or 2) Magna is lying an his ability only targets specific people and/or groups of people.

Obviously leaning towards the latter ... what a fucking good fakeclaim, though. It's so obviously fake, but you can't help second-guess the fact that if Magna is town, we're about to hand scum-VPB 10 faith, which could be a huge swing. Given there are three scum down, though, I doubt it would be game over, soo....CHOO CHOOOOOO.

My action resultion by definition is delayed - it has nothing to do with Magna. Whether it actually happens tonight will depend on if he's telling the truth or not..

Also, the simple workaround to that is to have 2 sets of worship plans - one if Magna flips town and one if he flips scum. Obviously, in the former, VP gets nothing.

[ooba]

Magna is def. the lynch for today. But want to clear something up - please don't end the day before this is discussed ..

---

grr, now that I'm thinking of it, I could see a town player blocking MoI after his shittiness on the quadz lynch. Bleh. He might be telling the truth. Maybe we should lynch Plum today.

The only problem with this logic is that town RB on Magna would have claimed by now ..

1) I hate VP's shift from "Let's lynch lying Magna" to "Let's lynch plum". Are you afraid he'll turn up town?

2) Also, the domain he's asked worship for + reluctance to share other domain ..

I've given my one domain,

Solism

. I'm not entirely sure if it's worthwhile revealing my other...though perhaps?

Solism - The class who works best when alone pays tribute to this domain. Its opposite is Syncretism.

Both point to a SK.

VP, I'd like you to claim your other domain. If anything, people should be worshiping that tonight.

Does any other player have "Solism" as one of their domains?

[ooba]

My reluctance to claim my other domain is because I don't want to give the scum more opportunity to worship themselves while hiding behind a worship of me. It's a tactical move that may catch people not following through on their worships. Not likely, but still a chance. Solism definitely fits with ABR if you've ever played with him. My understanding of the domains is that they are meant to represent character traits rather than anything to do with alignment.

Regardless, if a majority wants my other domain I'll gladly give it.

re: town RB claim - no, if I was town RB I definitely wouldn't claim. MoI needs to die at some point regardless of if he was blocked by town or not.

Well, you have my "Yes" for the other domain claim ..

Definitely disagree with a hypothetical town RB not claiming.

While I agree with the character trait bit being most likely - I'd like to get this checked -

Does any other player have "Solism" as one of their domains?

- Yes: VPB
- No: Magna,ooba
- Unclaimed: AlmasterGM, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Faraday, Demonic Angel, Magua, Nobody Special, Parama, Plum, RayFrost, Seraphim, sottyrulez

[ooba]

Unvote]/b]

[ooba]

...

Unvote

[ooba]

"Solism" as one of their domains?/b]
- Yes: VPB
- No: Magna,ooba, Demonic Angel, Magua
- Unclaimed: AlmasterGM, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Faraday, Nobody Special, Parama, Plum, RayFrost, Seraphim, sottyrulez

Plum? DDD?

[ooba]

VP-is-SK makes no sense with the abilities that VP has claimed.

You gain 5 Faith from draining the battery. 5 Faith gives you, with the claimed abilities, one kill. That's one kill every two Days. Assuming you can get two worship from other places, that's two kills which is one kill every Day.

Do you think that VPB killed N1?

Do you think that VPB killed N1 *and* was able to influence the battery? If so, why not do the battery thing again today?

Disagree on this.

One Factional kill for SK + one extra action (battery drain or cast for kill) makes sense.
N1: Kill + Use Battery for faith
N2: Kill + Use accumulated faith to cast a kill
Tell me why this does not make sense.

[ooba]

Singer worshiped Justice the night she was killed, which leads us to believe that worshiping Justice as we're planning to may net scum some kind of benefit.

I'll also claim that N2 faith for Balance+Justice was 5. I worshiped Balance the night before. Would prefer if people boosting me stuck to Balance.

"Solism" as one of their domains?

- Yes: VPB
- No: Magna,ooba, Demonic Angel, Magua, sottyrulez
- Unclaimed: AlmasterGM, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Faraday, Nobody Special, Parama, Plum, RayFrost, Seraphim

[ooba]

@Seraphim - can you make sure your PGO ability would be active on me the same night you grant it. Want to make sure.

VP sets up a reason for his being alive tomorrow.

Magna is a tiger, VP is SK.

[ooba]

Oh and Plum is town.

[ooba]

The jump from three to four kills is because of VP's extra kill from the cast on N2. Couldn't do it on N1 cause he didn't have the faith.

Magna is a tiger, VP is SK.

Well, you are at least half wrong on that. And I don't think the VPB is SK half is incorrect.

VP is telling the truth about that kill - and I'm guessing the cast power too. While scum roleblocking you is possible, I'd rather stick to the simpler explanation that you're lying given it matches my earlier reads too.

Tell me the gameplan for VPB claiming as SK. Tell me how this gets to him winning.

Alternate win con: Cast of 7 power - win the game. (or) In other words, get 2 people to worship Solism and you win. I'm not advocating we lynch VP, I am advocating we not boost him (at least with Solism) - that is why I am checking if someone else has that.

P-edit: Magna's reasons are ok but I'll stick with the above.

[ooba]

@ooba - what does it matter what domain you boost of mine? Any domain you have gives you faith. Also, Vi would never put an ability in the game where you auto win by casting it. Jesus.

The real question is why does it matter to you so much that we stick to "Solism"?? Why haven't you even claimed the other domain - you're usually more proactive when you ask different people "Do you think I should claim this?" ..

An SK who has the alternate win condition of manipulating the town to get extra faith (or "Worship him") sounds reasonable.

[ooba]

why Worship one of your own Domains Night 0?

So I could vig obv?

Why wouldn't I worship my own domain N0? Should I have randomly worshipped another domain and hoped someone from the town had it? Continue not making sense

.. Scum caught ..

[ooba]

meh, so I messed up with my N0 action.

Regardless, I still killed scum and I'm still town.

If another person vigged hito, I'm sure they would have countered me, yeah?

Right you're not a tiger .. Doesn't mean you're not scum ...

[ooba]

I don't care if you think I'm the SK, frankly. Nor have I ever. Still doesn't make any sense to lynch me over Tigers today. Once I shoot tiger and/or SK tomorrow, you can lynch me for all I care. So you can herp a derp all you want over a messed up night action, I'm still not getting lynched today. Doesn't that just eat you up inside.

True. Not lynching you today. Magna first, then you.

But I oppose any plan to boost either Solism or Will in anyway today.

[ooba]

We're boosting me because I'm going to win this shit for town.

There is a limited few of us that have been dragging the rest of you kicking and screaming to victory, so I don't expect that to change.

Also, I like how you keep moving the goalposts re: my domains ooba.

Is this a character flaw of yours - insult people whenever they're on to you? Dissed my reads earlier in the day when I had Magna\you listed on my scum reads. (For the record, while you had a useless quadz vote for the entire day and did nothing with it - I called hito-Quadz way before you did.)

Hell, I added Will to that cause there is no way I'm helping you when you're clearly scum who can't even keep his claims straight. Vi made it completely damn obvious that N0 worship means N1 no cast. With a vig at three cast, there is no way I'm worshiping to miss a chance at a shot on scum on N1.

[ooba]

Also, to ooba, you need to realize that even if you don't like the personality I approach this game with, that doesn't make me scum. Rise above such a narrow approach as likability = town.

Really? It's a tell I noticed. Nothing about the
- Botched claims
- The fact that you'd rather lynch Plum over Magna after his claim set-up a 1:1 with you (sans a town-RB who didn't claim)
Nice try - trying to discredit all that with a "likability=town"

[ooba]

Also finishing this. Would like others to claim.
"Solism" as one of their domains?
- Yes(1): VPB
- No(7): Magna, ooba, Demonic Angel, Magua, sottyrulez, Parama, Plum
- Unclaimed(6): AlmasterGM, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Faraday, Nobody Special, RayFrost, Seraphim

[ooba]

The idea of a botched claim is stupid. I claimed what I did. Turns out I messed up...it's not unheard of, nor would it have mattered for my abilities anyhow. Re: 1v1 - I've told you why I disagree on that. Finally, my point was that I do think you're getting confused because you don't like how I play. I understand I can be a bit rough around the edges when I'm trying to get people to wise up and make smart choices, but being aggressive and trying to win =/= scum traits necessarily.

Don't worry - I am not the type of player who votes because of aggressive\abrasive behavior or playstyle. (Case in point: After the earlier barbs in the day, I believed you were town after the kill hito claim and didn't let anything else cloud my judgement. It was your reaction to Magna's claim which piqued my scum-dar)

P-edit: @VP, @Magua: Nobody having Solism is probably a point for SK-Solism theory of mine.

[ooba]

Again, I reiterate, whether you think I'm SK or not is irrelevant. If I am, then you're simply going to have an easier time winning as town. I can't win if I was, and I have demonstrated I'm out to kill scum. Use common sense.

I'm not voting you for the lynch am I?

In a game where 6 faith gives me a great cast, not powering up someone I think is scum to 7-10 cast is common sense.

[ooba]

I don't give a damn about scumhunting...after I called 3 scum and

killed 2

. I can't be trusted clearly.

Killed 2?

[ooba]

Vote: MoI

And in the worship plan, change solism to will for team VP - humor me.

[ooba]

Rest of people worship one of justice / balance to power up ooba (I'd prefer justice and I remember being in this list: worshiping justice gives me a way to actually remove myself from the game without costing an extra kill on me, provided certain contigencies)

What do you think of the fact that scotty said singer worshiped Justice on N2?

[ooba]

@VP - Post 67 in scotty's ISO
P-edit- Ninja'd by Ray

---

@Ray - you had me at

I'm going to come out and say my cast is also awesome. Let's double our awesome.

---

@VP on worship
Consider that town people with information\protective roles should rather use their abilities than worship. Trust me when I saw I like the teams as they are.

[ooba]

I have the same reservations about ooba, but too many people I trust to be town are telling me I'm wrong.

Strange. You did read my ISO right? Is it the plum defense on D3?

- Acceptable deviation: If you have a protective ability/cast you can use, protect ooba

Plus if you have an informational role, you should probably use it.

[ooba]

I prefer Magua's strict plan because it has less wiggle room for scum to wifom why they didn't power up. Controlling night actions is crucial.

True. But they'd have to lie about the informational role and by that I mean Watcher\Tracker type roles - either way will net us contradictions if they're not telling the truth during massclaim. Think it's worth it with the extra slack present in your team ..

[ooba]

Perhaps, but I also wouldn't be surprised if the Tigers are in 'ban together at all costs' mode. Meaning that they could simply corroborate each other's claims. Majority can decide on the issue.

Well they tried that once and see where it landed them.

[ooba]

Lol if that is actually true, then we should lynch NS today .. Will be able to confirm Magna's ability tonight too ..

Just posting this here so we know who has the better reads

Strong scum read - NS

My strongest read - this is definitely the person who we should lynch today.
..
..
..

Unvote. Vote: NS

[ooba]

For the record, NS was my top secret SK guess, so we can compare our pee pees depending on his alignment

Deal - but what if he's town?

---

14) ooba
-lots of theory stuff but not a lot of legitimate scumhunting. though I guess in a game like this, lots of theory stuff isn't bad... though really there isn't much here at all worthwhile.

null

for now.

Since you've skimmed through my posts, I've decided to help ya out by selecting some relevant parts to help you improve your read ..

ISO1: AlGM = Town
ISO2: Gamma, Parama = Town; scotty = Mostly Town; hito = scum

Vote: hitogoroshi
- I did not like the push on AGM
- Particularly got a very bad vibe from the vote on Parama
- Spec in post.183 does not seem genuine

ISO3: VV = Town; Singer, equnox = Don't deserve to declared Town; scotty = Town

Agree with Duplicity's ISO 6 (Just remove Singersinger, Equinox from the Town list and add Scottrulez to it)

ISO4: Quadz, hito = scum

I can see a hito-Quadz pairing ..

Unvote. Vote: Quadz

L-2 ..

ISO5: Quadz = *definitely* scum
ISO12: Quadz, hito, Plum = Scum

Did Duplicity have it right when he said {Quadz,Hito,Plum,VPB} - Not sure about VPB but the other three seem bang on ..

ISO14,15: Reasoning for Quadz
ISO16: Plum = Town; Magua = Scum
ISO17: VPB,MoI,DA,NS = Null to scum; Rest town

[ooba]

DDD over MoI?
No

[ooba]

Vote: NS

[ooba]

Also, Parama did anything apart from the ordinary happen to you yesterday night?

[ooba]

Ooba do you mean N3 or N2?

N3

[ooba]

This is why I told people on the VP worship to use informational roles if they had any ..

[ooba]

Parama, I was mistaken it seems - should have happened after N2 ..

I also agree that Plum is town .. Please kill NS people ..

[ooba]

okay ooba if you did target me tell me what happened then.
yes, this will out an ability of mine. If I can catch oobascum I'm all for it though.

Something should have happened on the daybreak after N2 if I wasn't blocked ..

[ooba]

Something did happen, but you only said that after I said the same. What happened?

I was unsure about the timing. I had it clarified wrongly - thought you'll know at the start of N3 but apparently it happens at daybreak itself ..

Town points if someone can claim what ability I now possess.

Tracker

[ooba]

Whoever killed VP was willing to risk dying. This disturbs me.

Scum roleblocker/re-director?

Also should point out that there is *some* roleblocker in the game since my >2 cast worked on N2 implying Magna was roleblocked on N2 ..

[ooba]

Lol I was ninja'd. Plus I have more to say on that but will wait till claims end.

One Faith - An ability which tells me that it's possible my target is scum. I asked Vi if that meant I'd get the same return on any use of it and she said probably.

Nicely thought ability for volkan

[ooba]

Probably used it on VP yesterday night ..

Anyway Sera said we're completing this so AlGM - Go Go Go ..

[ooba]

Cool. Next person please

2) Debonair Danny DiPietro
5) Faraday
8) Demonic Angel (Fate+Katsuki) replacing Katsuki D1
14) ooba
15) Parama
18) RayFrost
19) Seraphim
21) sottyrulez (Sotty7+zachrulez)

[ooba]

What I meant is you'll have to choose AGM.

[ooba]

What all did you do mayne?

He prayed.

Very mediocre abilities mean that I've worshipped Justice each night.

DA is up next ..

[ooba]

2) Debonair Danny DiPietro - Needs to claim Faith totals

Who is next Ray?
5) Faraday
14) ooba
15) Parama
19) Seraphim

[ooba]

Actually all parama has is confirmation that Plum's alignment is not chaotic or neutral; there's no confirmation as far as I can tell that scum are only chaotic and/or evil and making that assumption would seem to make the game extremely easy to break.

He's a cop who is Paranoid on evil or chaotic. An innocent result confirms plum?

[ooba]

I have no doubt that I will be voting NS once massclaim is over.

Also, I don't really care if I claim before Faraday, since I'm around. Does anyone mind?

Go ahead. In fact think I'll claim too ..

[ooba]

High Priest of Hoopla
- Justice\Balance
- Lawful Netural
- No abilities except for Cast+Worship
1 - Remove Power Role - Player loses all active abilities (minus casts and factional abilities)
3 - Grant Minor Power Role - I can make someone a Tracker or Neighborizer for a night
3 - Grant Extra Townie - I can make someone a doublevoter
4 - Grant Moderate Power Role - I can make 1 player a (Doctor OR Roleblocker OR JK)
5 - Mass Grant Minor Power Role - I can grant two players roles from this list (Tracker, Doublevoter, Neighborizer for a night)
6 - Grant Major Power Role - I can make 1 player a Watcher or Vig

N0 - No Worship since I was hoping I might have enough faith on N1
N1 - 2 Faith - thought about using "Remove Power Role" - but on clarification that it wont actually remove scum NKs (factional), Worshiped Balance
N2 - 5 Faith - Granted Trackers to Seraphim and Parama
N3 - 3 Faith - Granted Tracker to AlGm

Reasoning: Quite obvious I think - granted informational roles wherever possible to my strong town reads who I believed had lesser chances of getting NK'd (which was why Gamma never got anything from me). Faraday for same reason plus I also thought he already had some sort of ability so it would be superfluous.

[ooba]

Ooba you should have given me something. I've got the worst fucking role in the game

Lol. In fact I was sure I had it right when you switched to the VP wagon - thought you wanted to use your ability and hence move to the worship wagon with more slack ..

Switch me on to VP. Thanks. Switch with whomever you think is best.

[ooba]

N2 TROLOLROLEBLOCK MOISCUMZ

Katsuki, reason for not claiming this yesterday?

Also analyzing claims - esp. Domain\Worship\Faith part of it ..

[ooba]

NS, What did you do N0 and N2?

Ray - I can't actually find what you did on N1 ..

---

DA, run me through these steps as to how you call BS on the NS claim, then focus on Plum and DDD and finally vote DDD with no mention of NS ..

ARCHNEMESIS- Roleblock 4lyfe (I call bullshit on NS' version, he must be the SCUM CC to me)

Erp... fail reading amplified by sickness.

Plum is probably town.
DDD is probably scum.

Though, I'm kind of curious as to why you decided to worship Asceticism, Plum.

Wheee.

Vote: DDD

[ooba]

@Ray, got it ..

Parama - please check your N3 faith total again ..

DA
- Need you to claim exactly what you worshipped on N0 and N1.
- Also you alignment please (Lawful\N\Chatoic Good\N\evil) ..

Faraday - likewise on the alignment

[ooba]

NS
- What did you do N0 and N2?
- In addition to this, what were you faith totals N2 and N3?

[ooba]

Unvote

Don't want this day to end until I've figured some stuff out ..

[ooba]

NS is lying, can I hammer?

About?

[ooba]

I can see NS+DA as tigers. If there is one more, it would have to be scottyrulez.

Trouble is N2, I can possible Justice voting by scum since 2 of the Justice votes have to be explained by {Magua, Gam, Dram, Hito, SS, NS} - I don't think Magua would have worshipped Justice & scotty claims SS worshiped Justice. One possible explanation is that Hito could be Justice (since Fate doesn't sound Justice) ..

Anyway I think we can move ahead with NS ..

Vote: NS

Also,

Worship plan

- Those that have abilities\faith to do something, do it tonight. (as long as you think it's useful)
- Others worship Justice (5 players currently at Justice [Me\AGM\Parama\Ray\DDD], worst case scenario is Ray/DDD both being scum but it's a longshot and I think potential benefits outweigh the costs here; Basically what Ray said yesterday)

I see what Ooba is talking about, I think.

Is that what you saw or was it something different?

[ooba]

Vi - Thanks for the game. It sounded very interesting in the upcoming games post you made and I'm happy I pre-in'd. Was fun ..

Faraday - excellently played! Never doubted you for a second ..
However, I think I have a tell to use for future games though ..

Also both Vi and Faraday have been nominated for scummies here so you can show your support ..

---

Nuke All Lurkers: ooba

Shocked that I was the target for this. This seems like a disadvantage for those who make big posts instead of shorter ones. I certainly did not lurk D1 ..

For town, I think the two turning points in this game were
- Day three where VP claimed and was killed the next night by Death Note & DA not claiming the roleblock on Magna.
- Lynching DA over Parama .. That was a truly WTF moment ..
I think switching the faiths is a honest mistake which anyone could have made.

And this was an amazing playlist - I wish every game I played had a comparable playlist - had a blast playing the game! Hope we can do this again ..

[ooba]

well even if we lynched Parama first, I think the next day would have been a mislynch.

Well with Parama gone, scum couldn't have used Death note - there wouldn't have been a kill and DDD's harmony power would have told you scum was in {AlmasterGM, Demonic Angel, Faraday, sottyrulez} ..

even with the DA mislynch that day, you had 2 trackers, 1 vig and could have narrowed it from those three ..

[ooba]

Vi you should run a sequel eventually! this is one of the best games i've played, the set-up was cool and the role pm's hilarious too.

Second!

[ooba]

Take it to the PMs please ..

Vi, what games are next on your modding horizon?

[ooba]

*Temporal Horror Mafia - My very first attempt at a Large Theme... now with 60% fewer obvious balance problems. Would you believe Chrono Trigger + Arkham Horror?

This looks like a lot of fun .. Haven't played the board game but anything to do with Chrono Trigger must be fun ..

@Zach: Stop being so depressed .. We'll get them next time