Fall of the Matrix: Game Over!

[Albert B. Rampage]

My win condition says I win if all the threats to the town are dead.

That's not what mine says.

Vote: Vezok

Really? Maybe it's just me, but I don't have my role PM word-for-word memorized. There's scum slips, and then there's paraphrasing.

To the people voting for Vezok for *this* reason: do you legitimately think this is a scum slip?

I definitely do. If he is townie, I want his clan lynched right after him. This means Internet Stranger, and who else is defending vezok for easy town points?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I know but one thing, and that's that vezok isn't a town power role, and that's enough for me to rip his flailing body apart today. This doesn't stop me from scumhunting different faction scum like Internet Stranger.

[LlamaFluff]

I know but one thing, and that's that vezok isn't a town power role, and that's enough for me to rip his flailing body apart today. This doesn't stop me from scumhunting

different faction scum

like Internet Stranger.

So what makes you think two factions?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Can you take one guess before I give you the answer?

[SensFan]

I meant, we can't sensibly lynch him for that...

Is that a challenge?

[Internet Stranger]

Oh right. Vezo happens to mention the standard boilerplate town victory condition in a theme game and now he is scum incarnate. You all cant keep calling him stupid but then vote for him over some dastardly scumslip. If he is as stupid as you all say, then he clearly didnt bother reading the first post or his PM thoroughly.

If he is scum, lynch him because he is scum, not because he is an idiot. Im inclined to believe him for now because he wont last to the end of the game anyways.

Despite that, I would still be ok with getting rid of him

, but I like my suggestions (Surye and Kison) better.

I will lynch the the fuck out of Vezo right now just to shut you up, Albert. But then again, you were voting for him werent you? And you voted for him on a bullshit "misread PM" allegation as well. Now youre getting all defensive on the person that is calling for examinations on anyone that was looking for an easy lynch of Vezo?

Looks like Alberto is sounds a little suspicious here.

[LlamaFluff]

Can you take one guess before I give you the answer?

You are on a X-Type Mafia team?

[Yosarian2]

I definitely do. If he is townie, I want his clan lynched right after him. This means Internet Stranger, and who else is defending vezok for easy town points?

I don't find IS's behavior to be suspicious at this point. So far his behavior feels like pro-town intended scumhunting; he's bringing attention by attacking someone based on what he considers suspicious behavior, and it's someone that no one else has even really noticed yet. That gives me a good vibe.

Just as a note: there's a tendency, when this kind of mafia theory debate is central in a game decision, for people on one side of the debate to attack people on the other side of the debate, back and fourth, splitting the town into factions. We should try to avoid that; it's usually counterproductive, it makes the town easier for scum to manipulate, playing one faction off against the other, and there's always going to be some town and some scum on both sides of a debate like this.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Can you take one guess before I give you the answer?

You are on a X-Type Mafia team?

Please no personal attacks. Try one more time.

[LlamaFluff]

Can you take one guess before I give you the answer?

You are on a X-Type Mafia team?

Please no personal attacks. Try one more time.

Y-Type?

You get snide, I get snide. Now answer my question.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Defending vezok or chainsawing his attackers is inherently a scummy move. But, if vezok was on my team, I wouldn't defend him...

[LlamaFluff]

Defending vezok or chainsawing his attackers is inherently a scummy move. But, if vezok was on my team, I wouldn't defend him...

I expected better.

[DeathNote]

Me too.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Defending vezok or chainsawing his attackers is inherently a scummy move. But, if vezok was on my team, I wouldn't defend him...

I expected better.

I don't understand.

[Surye]

Defending vezok or chainsawing his attackers is inherently a scummy move. But, if vezok was on my team, I wouldn't defend him...

Not sure how that implies multiple scum teams... if they were on a different scum team, risking their team is just as illogical as risking voz's. I'd say non-human faction

s

and the size are more likely reasons.

[Yosarian2]

Defending vezok or chainsawing his attackers is inherently a scummy move. But, if vezok was on my team, I wouldn't defend him...

I don't think he was defending Vezok.

I dont think that we absolutely must get rid of Vezo now, although he continues to find ways to dig himself in that much deeper. If we are to assume that Vezok is a townie, there should be at least 1 anti-human scum voting for him right now. (Including the newest entries, Albert and Amrun).

In my opinion it should come down to either Vezo or someone voting for him right now. Im voting Surye.

Surye

If no one else agrees on Surye, im willing to go with Kison instead.

"Let's either lynch Vezok, or the scummiest guy voting for Vezok" makes sense to me, in a way. If Vezok is town, then there's probably some scum voting for him.

[SensFan]

"Let's either lynch Vezok, or the scummiest guy voting for Vezok" makes sense to me, in a way. If Vezok is town, then there's probably some scum voting for him.

I'd be surprised if there aren't Scum both on and off of the wagon. Is there any particular reason why you would think it's best to look on the wagon?

[Porochaz]

ABR's answer was not good.

[Yosarian2]

"Let's either lynch Vezok, or the scummiest guy voting for Vezok" makes sense to me, in a way. If Vezok is town, then there's probably some scum voting for him.

I'd be surprised if there aren't Scum both on and off of the wagon. Is there any particular reason why you would think it's best to look on the wagon?

(shrug) Either way works.

Anyway, why are you asking me? We're talking about IS's behavior here. I just don't think Albert's discription of IS's behavior make sense.

[Kison]

Related to Vezok:
Yeah, okay, there's an argument that "lynching a VT means we don't lynch a PR" but since I'm refusing to use any kind of history and I don't know the guy, I'm not sure I'm not buying that he's ANYTHING. It seems so random and erratic to me that I can't really get a solid read off of it.

As for the "that's not what MINE says"... I'm not getting a strong tell off of that, because everything else he does seems so half-assed, I wouldn't be surprised that this one is either.

Now then... all things being said, my gut finds it all fishy, but not scummy.

I'll try to do some more tomorrow when I didn't have to work so late.

Unvote

Vote: Bamboomancer

This all basically says you have no real opinion on the matter. Take a firm stance on something.

vezokpiraka looks fine so far. His claim was dumb but I am failing to see the scum motive behind his behavior.

Yosarian: Have you ever enforced this "lynch vanilla day one" strategy before? Could you show me where, if so.

[Surye]

"Let's either lynch Vezok, or the scummiest guy voting for Vezok" makes sense to me, in a way. If Vezok is town, then there's probably some scum voting for him.

I'd be surprised if there aren't Scum both on and off of the wagon. Is there any particular reason why you would think it's best to look on the wagon?

As I stated, this wagon is no information in my opinion. The reason I am on it is that my analysis is that it will result in better town odds. However, another wagon today may be more fruitful, and there's no reason why we can't come back to Vezo later today.

[SensFan]

"Let's move to another wagon for the sake of information" is pretty much the easiest way to guarantee that the wagon will lead to nothing.
"Let's move to another wagon for information, get them to claim, and then come back to the guy we already know we want to lynch and already claimed Vanilla" is worse.

[Surye]

"Let's move to another wagon for the sake of information" is pretty much the easiest way to guarantee that the wagon will lead to nothing.

Yea, but if one believes strongly enough it ultimately won't yield anything, that's fine.

"Let's move to another wagon for information, get them to claim, and then come back to the guy we already know we want to lynch and already claimed Vanilla" is worse.

Why?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Sensfan speaks the truth. I applaud you sir, your posts have been sharp and on point.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Does anybody know MoS's stance on cults? Agent Smith comes to mind in this game...