Time Travel Mafia (Game Over)

[GreyICE]

I did say that. About 2 pages ago. Now want to comment on ANYTHING else?

As for gut based, lolno.

I think the potential for confusion is great, but so is the potential for AWESOME

I do think we should avoid lynching until we have someone we want to lynch. That means random voting is probably not a great idea.

Deliberately avoiding taking a stance in RVS,

ALSO DEMONSTRATING HE HADN'T READ RULES

.

I'm fairly suspicious of Amrun and KCD who apparently read the rules, but are still ok with going to the nomination phase this early in the game.

Typical scumbag suspicion pushing. It's fairly obvious that Amrun/kcda thought that the vote on 'no lynch' was for not lynching, not for 'don't lynch YET.'

Have you read the rules, Tragedy?
Nominations are submitted by PM to the mod.

Imma rules guru!

Maybe that's what you're talking about, but that clearly wasn't what Mist was talking about

Imma not gonna comment on anything!

ME: Insert Obligatory Refusal To Answer Pointless Questions Here
GROUP A: Vote: Ranger for refusing to answer pointless questions
GROUP B: Vote: Group A for thinking not answering questions is scummy

There, now that's done with. Can we get on with the game now?

Imma gonna call out that I'm not gonna answer your questions or any others, and lampshade how scummy that is! Because no scum would lampshade their scumminess! (fun fact: In a game I recently got out of, two people jokingly claimed scum. They were both scum. Scum are the MOST LIKELY to lampshade their scumminess).

Nothing gut about it at all, Zinger. He was OBVSCUM. He was going to die day 1. It was useful to see how his buddies would react to me calling it. They ALWAYS react interestingly.

You're stuck in an obvscum slot and are obvscum as well. So you get to die now.

[Zinger2099]

Took you long enough. If it's going to take a page and a half of badgering to get you to explain yourself every time I have a question, this is going to get really frustrating really fast.

[GreyICE]

Took you long enough. If it's going to take a page and a half of badgering to get you to explain yourself every time I have a question, this is going to get really frustrating really fast.

Dude, why am I playing question and answer with you?

You're obvscum. You've announced it several times. You replaced obvscum. He announced it many times. For fucks sake he's a newbie and he flaked out of ONE of his games where he was acting like a total scumbag? And then you come in and Amshed in the first post and then proceed to grab any ammo and try and OMGUS the fuck out of me for catching you?

Yeah, not overly worried about playing Q&A. Just enjoying all the misrepresentations, deflections, and lies you're throwing out about me while you're defending yourself.

At this point, scumteam, I suggest bussing.

[Zinger2099]

I don't believe I have deflected, lied, or thrown anything really in your direction. I might have misrepresented you once, but that is debatable. And none of it is OMGUS.

I think you're full of it, and are guilty of just about all the things you're accusing me of right now.

[Doombunny9]

I did so explain how it was scummy. I said there was buddying language. I just didn't point out the language. What do you think I did, simply say that there was, and then hope someone else would find some in there and point it out for me? Does that make any logical sense?

You only explained how it was scummy after I asked you twice. The other time you just posted quotes which could have been made into whatever someone wants it to be-not necessarily what you saw.

Zinger is looking worse and worse with every post. He's flailing like hell, take three tries to understand what Grey is trying to get at, and uses the old "Nuh uh. YOU did it, not me" defense.

[Zinger2099]

There is a difference between flailing like hell and getting pissed off at someone for not being direct with his answers.

In any event doomster, you're not clean of suspicion yourself.

At this point I have come to terms with the fact that I am going to be on the chopping block along with some other chud. I am building my defense case now, and plan to release it when I get my "last post".

Very little can stop me from getting on the chopping block now, but if I play my cards right I can get back off it with my head still intact. Sitting here arguing with GreyICE wasn't helping me build my cases against others, and makes me wonder if he did it just to distract/infuriate me. Oh well. It worked.

Probably not going to say much else now until my last trial, so that I can astound you all with my case of why you must keep me. Anything I say before that will just be twisted into something to be used against me.

[MrTrow]

- You used the 'why are we both on the scumlist if we`re not both scum' quite often for someone who agrees on the 1-1-tradeoff is a good thing.

1 for 1 tradeoff is a good thing if it's extremely likely that it IS a 1 for 1 tradeoff. Two people exchanging posts should not immediately be written off as 1 for 1, as it

So you say, but it has been a mayor point in your defence.

Amrun and Kcdaspot get a pass on activity levels from me.

Why point this out 'now'?
You`ve claimed town-reads on both (repeatedly).
And for the rest of the point (the day1 free pass, for sufficiently huntable content day2), would only work near the start of the day.
You`re not covering your reads on the now are you?

You nameclaimed "The Doctor," but the general assumption would be that someone with that nameclaim would have some sort of doctor type role. No real doctor would do that, which means you just announced that you're not the doctor, removing a layer of WIFOM for scum.

I still don`t like this case.
Why does this 'clumsy-town-tell' keep coming up as a scum-tell?

It didn't feel like he was scouring all corners of the rules for something to talk about.

It feels to me like you would have said this about whoever posted their point after the others. I've seen other reasons to suspect Kcdaspot, but that post isn't one of them.

So are you calling chrono`s point the scummier one?
As for the 'whoever': true on identity doesn`t matter, false on what the point was(total absence of solution) doesn`t. Which of the 2 were you implying?

I agree with the point that GreyIce could have been more forthcoming with 'the why' on a lot of his posts.

However Zinger, your suggestion of 'waiting until it`s you or a compromise-lynch' before you present your case, is just plain [wrong/weird/evil].
'Taking the time to prepare', in your current situation is one thing, forcing town`s hand when you do present your case is another.
I suggest you show your defence as soon as it`s finished, or at least have perfectly clear who the lynch should be, if we are to believe your case.


More will follow tomorrow.

[Maxous]

Splitting this up between posts :

Zinger is too interested in defending himself by not getting lynched. Not that interested seemingly in finding the mafia.
Any and all suspicion on Doombunney is irrelevant to Doombunney's suspicion on Zinger and 'In any event doomster, you're not clean of suspicion yourself.' looks like a deflection.

@Zinger:

So far my biggest scum-read is Chronopie (now Maxous), for basically the same reasons GreyICE said in post #226. Also, Post #226 is the most town-efficient post I have seen from GreyICE thus far.

Why mafia?
Why not negligent town that was merely skimming the game?

________________
________________

On smargaret:

She says there is something fishy about KCD and Amrun and wants more discussion without asking. GhostWriter points out how suspect this is and she proceeds to ask questions to appease him. Appeasing town to try and get suspicion off yourself is not a good sign.
Before this post she said Ranger was 'not the scummiest player' and did'nt say anything about Doombunney. She just slipped them on the list while people were fosing them with no explanation..
Throws suspicion on the lurker. Mafia rather than town are more likely to take lurking like that and attempt to make a case out of it as she did.
Being in the knowledge that this is a town slot this post rang alarm bells. Completely bandwagoned on him with zero explanation as half the town was pointing the finger on Chrono.
RC asks 'what has Chrono done? This is a lurker lynch.' 'Well yeah it is a lurker lynch, but scum can lurk. And he is skimming' (which is more lurking), 'and has'nt taken a stance in his posts' (he called a scumteam)
She calls a scumpair. Next post. How the heck did this combination arise when she called a scumpair? She has no explanation as to why her read changed. (Note: That was'nt literally the next post but that was a correction to what she meant to say in the next post.)

Smargaret's suspicion progression:

Early discussion about/between KCD and Amrun - they might be scum together/ they are fishy
Ranger and Doombunney get suspected by members of the town - DB and Ranger are added to the list
Chrono comes under pressure and Grey is questioned by RC - Chrono and Grey are added to the list (she added Mist independent of town suspicion)
A lot of the town start thinking Chrono is highly suspect - Chrono is definitely scum
Grey becomes convinced that Zinger is mafia - Zinger goes on top of the list

She would be my top choice. Question though:

@ Smargaret:

and Maxous isn't doing much better than Chronopie.

What am I doing(or not doing) that 'is'nt much better'?

[Maxous]

I have changed my read on Amrun a lot. I misinterpreted 2 statements from her.
First was her initial suspicion on KCD.
I thought the entire reason for the suspicion was his apparent rolefishing by revealing to the mafia(which he was part of) that he was not a doctor but the issue seems to be more I don't think town would do that not considering the consequences.

The second was her suspicion of KCD over 'the buddying' which I thought she only mentioned for the first time as a reason to suspect KCD

after

other people brought it up, however she did mention her suspicion of KCD before that. It was initially unclear as it was jumbled beside her reasons for suspecting smargaret. Still it was there.

That's why I have gone from near convinced of Amrun scum to thinking she may well be town.

As for my suspicion on KCD on review it seems he was basing his suspicion and vote of Ghost on a game in which Ghost was town as KCD was perceiving Ghost to be acting differently from then.
That makes sense as town KCD could see
Ghost acted like X as town in game A.
Ghost is acting different here, this is possibly because he is a different alignment.
It fits in somewhat with his gut reads of the likes of Mr.Trow and Amrun.

Meh i think he is fine now.

______________________
_____________________

Kcdaspot, a different angle on your opening post: if your opening nameclaim was simply a random theme-related joke as you claim, why did you say "Discuss."? What's to discuss about a joke? I can get you posting the joke to make people chuckle - I did - but the 'discuss' does look fishing-y as compared to, say, "Nameclaim: The Doctor. "

This comes across as a curious comment.

@Imaginality: Straight up, do you think that comment was a joke or a rolefish?

in any case.... I may have to claim.... the nature of this game kind of warrants it...

You're allowed one post if you're one of the two candidates for a lynch. There's no reason to do it now unless it's that important.

About this, should'nt we ask for the claims before the one post in case we have any questions about thier claim? I.E. before the nomination process.
They won't be able to answer questions after the single post.

@GhostWriter: Seeing as you have suspicion on DB9 for 'buddying lanuage', I am curious on your thoughts of RedCoyote who is saying I like person X and Y and thier posts. 'This is why your bottom of the list GhostWriter' etc.

[Maxous]

@Exe: At the time of my post what you had said about Doombunney was:
1) You think he is playing passively - meh
2) You have a gut-read on him and you stated that DB is saying KCD is 'useless' rather than 'scum' (he did'nt)
3) This - DB suspected KCD, there was nothing left to interpretation
4) He is mudslinging (I don't see how)

So what exactly did you want me to comment on?

Hypothetically though, even if I did miss some big case on Doombunney why would that give 'connection points' to him?

Another question: You expressed your dissatisfaction at RC appluading Ghost for saying 'to not to lynch the replacements' and accused RC of defending scummy people(the twon replacements included).
If you feel the replacements should'nt of been defended why did'nt you call Ghost on out it when he said they should'nt be lynched?

__________________
__________________

I am going to avoid posting my list for now until I get a bit of a response as my list could well change wildly.

Top 2 suspects are Zinger and Smargaret for reference.

[Amrun]

Wow, Maxous, I love your case on smargaret. It sums up my thoughts on her beautifully and also found afew new points I'd missed. I feel more sure of my scumread on her after that, and you've secured a townread from me for thinking about several things in a similar way to me (as in, I think we are both coming from a town point of view).

Zinger still beats smargaret, though. He really needs a lot of dead.

I need to do some more in-depth reads asap. I'm in the final stretches of the semester and I've been short on time.

[Doombunny9]

In any event doomster, you're not clean of suspicion yourself.

No one is. What point are you trying to make here?

Anything I say before that will just be twisted into something to be used against me.

Ew. Just ew. The only people I would think would be scared of such things are scum. There is no town motivation to saying this. For town Catching scum>Self-preservation (Except in a mylo/lylo situation). Also, why not "astound" us now? I don't see how waiting will make your defense any better?

About this, should'nt we ask for the claims before the one post in case we have any questions about thier claim? I.E. before the nomination process.
They won't be able to answer questions after the single post.

Hm, I suppose you're right. New idea: In the nomination phase, the town decides as a whole who the top two will be (Anyone who doesn't follow this is scum) and before the lists are sent out, the top two people claim, answer questions, etc.

[Zinger2099]

Because nothing I say now will change anybodies mind.

@Maxous you misunderstand me. I feel that the mafia is twisting my words to make me look like scum (because I'm an easy target what with all the suspicion going around). I'm not going to give them more fodder for the fire. I want to make sure that the next things I say of my defense help the town, and if I reveal them too early it will only make me look bad/help scum. I am looking at my weak-case and all it says to me is "trying to save yourself zinger". People aren't going to listen to what I have to say right now because anything I say will be twisted to look like a self-preservation tactic, something I am trying to avoid. When I bring forward my case I want it to be in such a way that makes it clear of my motivations, and I don't believe I will be able to do that until I am an inch from lynchdom.

[GreyICE]

Oh for fucks sake
I can and will vote and hammer the hell
Out of day 1 power role claims
So unless it's "Mason" I'd find a better time to spit it out than right before you die so you get to play Q&A with the rest of us. Because somehow I just know two scum aren't going to make it up there, we're never that lucky.

[imaginality]

When I bring forward my case I want it to be in such a way that makes it clear of my motivations, and I don't believe I will be able to do that until I am an inch from lynchdom.

So why say you're "Probably not going to say much else now until my last trial, so that I can astound you all with my case of why you must keep me." If you're not going to defend yourself till the final hour, why not use the meantime to comment on other people, do some scumhunting?

@Maxous: rolefishing, because of the 'Discuss.' without that, I could more easily buy it's just a joke.

Maxous has turned my opinion of his slot around with his posts this page.

I now have Kcdaspot and Zinger2099 in my top two. Need to do a fuller read if I were to list the exact order of the others, but it's:

scummier
{Tragedy, Amrun, smargaret}
{RC, MrTrow, Maxous}
{Doombunny9, GhostWriter, GreyICE, Exe}
townier

[Zinger2099]

Because anything I do comment on gets the 3rd degree because I am seen as obvscum. Thus nothing I say will be helpful to the town, it will be misconstrued and turned against me and by association the town.

Let's say I make a convincing case as to why imaginality is scum (I actually believe he is probably one of the most pro-town players we have here right now, but this is hypothetically speaking), not only will my case be disregarded because everyone thinks I am scum, but to make things worse people might start seeing my points in an opposite light. All of a sudden, people give imaginality undeserved town-pants because the obvscum said he was scum. You see where I am getting at with this?

If I say imaginality is town and people think I am scum, people will think imaginality is scum by association. If I say he is scum people will think he is town for the same reasons. Basically any points I make right now will probably have un-desireable effects and I don't want to send town in the wrong direction just because they think I am scum.

[GhostWriter]

I am currently on my way out of state to say goodbye to a dying relative. I'm no where near the right state of mind to play anything right now. I'll likely be back some time tomorrow.

[Zinger2099]

On the other hand I could say the opposite of what I mean in a reverse-psychology attempt at sending the town in the right direction, but what if they take me at face-value and believe me? Then I have to explain how I really meant the opposite of what I said.

Either way I look at things, any case I make right now will be detrimental to the town. I don't care if I get chastised for it, but I do care if my points are used against my team. Right now I am probably scum's best friend, because anything I say is ripe for the picking when it comes to building false arguments against town. I don't want to give them that opportunity.

[Doombunny9]

@Zinger- If you are town you shouldn't have to worry about people twisting your words because if you flip town, we're going to read everything you say as though you are town. Using post 540 as an example, even if people were to disregard your post on imaginality now and give him town points for it, as soon as you flip imaginality would get the scum points he deserves (Assuming that your case is good enough). Scumhunting is ALWAYS towns #1 priority regardless of how scummy you are. The only reason you'd have to worry about any of this is if you're scum.

[Zinger2099]

I didn't think about it that way because for that to happen as you have described I would have to die first, something I am not at all happy with because of the repercussions that would have for town. But I see your point. Alright, you've convinced me. I will put up my case before the hammer vote falls, but let me make sure it is properly constructed first. In it's current state, it wouldn't make much sense to anybody but me.

[Kcdaspot]

the exchange between DB and zinger makes me like zinger more.

[Tragedy]

@Zinger-

If you are town you shouldn't have to worry about people twisting your words because if you flip town

, we're going to read everything you say as though you are town. Using post 540 as an example, even if people were to disregard your post on imaginality now and give him town points for it, as soon as you flip imaginality would get the scum points he deserves (Assuming that your case is good enough). Scumhunting is ALWAYS towns #1 priority regardless of how scummy you are.

The only reason you'd have to worry about any of this is if you're scum.

Then what about scum twisting your words into scummy ones?
That's how much misunderstandings would suddenly hop in and get town lynched right off the bat.

@Kcdaspot: Why zinger?

[Kcdaspot]

I think some people can sympathize with his position, but moreover the way he words it makes him more town than anything. mind you it doesn't put him too high because it took him a page and a half going back and forth with DB9 to resolve to do something about it. I'm looking forward to his case.

i may suspect grey...

and... tragedy is town-ish... you had a weird progression from thinking me scum to thinking me town, but your posts make sense. only thing, up to your iso 29 that point chrono's post

maxous is town, answering questions asking questions, scum hunting like a pro.

I'd like amrun to comment on zinger now.

only post about zinger from amrun was a "LYNCH IT WITH FIRE."

[Kcdaspot]

scratch that about grey... he's town

[Tragedy]

So his "wording" is the reason why he's town?
My wording sucks that bad to not even acknowledge that.