Mini 1159 - Powerrox93's Mini Normal I (Game Over)

[Me=Weird]

crazypianist: You were there because you were pretty active at first, then you slacked way off.
Uncle pain: Nothing in particular, a few smaller points, such as accusing you of voting me for not posting and then saying I really needed to get in the game, the thing andrew pointed out about trying to deflect attention and bussing, also calling bussing before a flip is bad. Another thing is that, assuming for an instant either of them is scum, a common scum tactic is to put buddies on slightly suspicious list, as CP did.
Undecided about mist right now. Going to wait for a few more posts.

[yabbaguy]

Umm... player-by-player:

Jase - Town. I like the initial tactics of trying to reaction test. Confusing as hell for trying to act scummy on purpose while I was acting on purpose, but I dig it.

Uncle Pain - Annoying Town. Oozing Town, getting in people's faces, not afraid to interrogate anyone, complete recklessness, everything. But people who are saying "come on lurkers, hurry up" annoy me, especially when it means it's my fault.

tarsonisocelot -

Speculative

. Not scum with [L].

andrew94 - Remains

speculative

, poor D1 lynch choice. Playstyle is massively opaque, so I'll table him.

Me=Weird - Town, hesitantly. Seems like he's trying to crack the game open, albeit in an outspoken way.

Zdenek - Town. Reasoning all makes sense, disagreeable, but it makes sense.

StefanB - VERY TOWN. How the hell is there a wagon on this man? He's obviously acting very candidly right now, trying to honestly reason his way through the game, and while it seems as though he's had difficulties, how people are finding them scummy enough to drive him to 4 votes is terrible.

imaginality -

Scum

. Back to his blathering ways, basically saying "yeah, Stefan's scum" with a bunch of nonsense. Biggest perpetrator of a nasty wagon that isn't worth a damn. Read his ISO and tell me if you believe him, I'll do that myself in a bit, but a first glance suggests otherwise to me.

Mist - Big fat blank.

Speculative

. Town lean at the moment, for what it's worth.

[L] - With the greatest of hesitations,

scum

is the tilt for me. It really only derives from the fact that [L] makes a lot of "I" statements, very much "I think this", "this is who I think is scum", and does little to probe others. But at the same time, it's a wicked iffy tell. I think we could do better, but this is an okay complacency lynch for me.

Surprise_Carcinogen: I also will say

scum

here with all due hesitancy. Content of posts also revolves around "I think this" and does little to engage others or show much organized effort at trying to crack the game and polarize the field.

crazypianist: The one I empathize with the most, Town. Full of content, but hasn't the time. Same here, how do you do?

Unvote, Vote: imaginality

@Mist: Again, how the hell do you find my first post scummy? I lied in order to polarize the field and see if opportunistic scum bit the bait. And certainly a few did, although in unexpected ways, I will admit.

@Uncle Pain: Honestly, I think of the people who bit at it, Jase knew, one is Stefan the Magnificent Obvtown, and Zdenek was the worst, but still seemed all right. imaginality had that odd reaction which I just somehow can't shake off. It still pings scummy somehow, I can't tell.

Next is to conjure up my interpretation of imaginality's ISO to see if I've still got a case and to go at him.

[StefanB]

First

Unvote

Done with my read!

I named Jase before, but thought there was enough presure on him, so I could do somethink that helps more. My sarcastic comment at GroupThink was there.

I though at the moment of voting him, but thought this would be pointless since I didn't really exspect an answer.

BTW: Childlessly I am calling OMGOS.

You were going to vote him so you canget an answer? Just ask the question and if his answer seems scummy or doesn't reply then you vote him.


StefanB: Explain why you feel the need to Bring up something that happened on the first few posts?

I know I have freaking towncread of -1.000.000

Than please selfvote so we can get you out of the way. Mafia is about taking suspiscion, fighting them, and passing them to someone else. That post just seemed like you are giving up.

I'll do more people later for now I have to get ready for school.

Vote:StefanB

for reasons stated above.

Then this post from Mist, at last some points are horrible antitown.
First the missunderstanding, I didn't vote GroupThink because I had serious doubt that he would response to anythink. Hell, he left with 1 post in game were he voted and nothing more. I was not very surprised that that happened, so a vote didn't help here very much. (not a point against Mist just to make it clear)
Your vote for me, let me get this strange. You vote me for giving up and stating that I know that many townies belive I am scum?
Not even for beliving yourself that I am scum?
Have you even read the whole game, how many of my post have you read?
Second yust vote for yourself: I may do that if we are very near to deadline and a result of not doing it would result in a nolynch, whitch the rules make imposible this game. Every other selfvote is antitown. It's against playing to win win. (I think perhaps even modkilworthy)
Also rushing the day is only good if you think you have done everythink done to be best prepaired for day 2.
You can not tell me that has happened after one week.

Vote: Mist

, I know antitown=not neccesary scum, but I feel okay with leaving this vote there for my VLA.

At all I will try to make a big posting and try to make everythink clear what I did game, I just can't carantie that I have enough time today.

[Uncle Pain]

Uncle Pain - Annoying Town. Oozing Town, getting in people's faces, not afraid to interrogate anyone, complete recklessness, everything. But people who are saying "come on lurkers, hurry up" annoy me, especially when it means it's my fault.

Would you like to explain what you mean with “oozing town”? So far I’ve asked a lot of questions and I feel this is important to play Mafia Scum properly and efficiently. I admit I’m not very sorry for annoying you if it comes from my attempt to squeeze some participation out of you.

imaginality -

Scum

. Back to his blathering ways, basically saying "yeah, Stefan's scum" with a bunch of nonsense. Biggest perpetrator of a nasty wagon that isn't worth a damn. Read his ISO and tell me if you believe him, I'll do that myself in a bit, but a first glance suggests otherwise to me.

Well, I’ve just read his posts in isolation and I think you’re wrong. What are your concrete arguments against imaginality’s case, where do you find him blathering, what is nonsense? While I find #96 not-so-waterproof, #122 backs the case up pretty well.

@Uncle Pain: Honestly, I think of the people who bit at it, Jase knew, one is Stefan the Magnificent Obvtown, and Zdenek was the worst, but still seemed all right. imaginality had that odd reaction which I just somehow can't shake off. It still pings scummy somehow, I can't tell.

Okay, now you’re pinging

my

scumdar. First, you seem to ignore all the inconsistencies in StefanB’s thoughts and call him an obvious townie. I could live with you disagreeing but ignorance is never townish. Second, that odd reaction that you just can’t tell. Sounds like an obvious attempt to throw dirt at imaginality.

FoS: yabbaguy.

He is saying he has no town cred. If he's just going to give up like that self-vote and save town some time.

Second yust vote for yourself: I may do that if we are very near to deadline and a result of not doing it would result in a nolynch, whitch the rules make imposible this game. Every other selfvote is antitown. It's against playing to win win. (I think perhaps even modkilworthy)
Also rushing the day is only good if you think you have done everythink done to be best prepaired for day 2.
You can not tell me that has happened after one week.

As it seems, Mist7676 stands firmly to her statement. StefanB shows that she’s wrong all the way. Putting aside the fact that I consider self-voting bad play (and asking someone to do it as well): Mist7676, are you so sure of StefanB being scum that it’s okay to get rid of him? If no, why would you

ever

ask him to self-vote? If yes, how did you draw that conclusion? You bet I got my eyes on you now!

In general it seems like you don't want to be ON my wagon but you still want my wagon to succeed. You then use being on my wagon as points against two other players so you can call them out if my wagon DOES succeed, and YOU get to say "I told you there was something wrong with that wagon". Is that about right? Did I leave any part of that out?

I find this view very interesting, I didn’t consider this.

UNVOTE: Jase. After re-reading your posts, I come to the conclusion that you may be more townie than I initially thought. I still don’t like the approach you tried back then but I give you the benefit of a doubt that it’s just your style and not scumminess. Plus, Mist7676 and yabbaguy are running a tight race for my vote right now.

[Zdenek]

My reasoning for making such an obviously false statement was to goad surprise carcinogen.

I don't believe you. If it were true, why not say so right away?

@Zdenek: #93: You commented on one of the first posts page 1. Further my post was very early on page one, while yours was the second to last.

When I was talking about you finding nothing to comment about on the first page, I was referring to your second post.

Zdenek: You had your vote on Surprise_Carcinogen but switched to [L] due to her false statement. Do you still suspect Surprise_Carcinogen? If yes, where do you see a connection between the two? What do you think about crazypianist1116 now that he’s posted #138?

[L] has attacked SC for a few things that if she actually believed, I think she would have voted for SC, but she never did. So it could be distancing between scum; however, my feeling about that is so weak that an [L] scum flip wouldn't make me want to lynch SC more. It seems more likely to me that it is scum [L] attacking a townie, so an SC town flip would probably make me want to lynch [L] more than I already do.

CP's Post 138 is fine, but I'm waiting to hear how he responds to Jase.

[Powerrox93]

Votecount 1.12

Updated as of post #154

StefanB (4) - imaginality, Me=Weird, andrew94, Mist7676
[L] (3) - tarsonisocelot, Zdenek, crazypianist1116
Uncle Pain (1) - Jase
imaginality (1) - yabbaguy
Mist7676 (1) - StefanB

Not voting (3) - Surprise_Carcinogen, [L], Uncle Pain

If there's a mistake let me know.
13 Alive == 7 to Lynch && 7 to No-Lynch

StefanB

will be lynched at deadline if votes doesn't change

V/LA

andrew94: Until April 30
StefanB: April 30 - May 1
Powerrox93: May 12 - 15. Back-up mod Empking will look over the game while I'm away

Deadline

May 14 06:00 CEST

Surprise_Carcinogen is being proded

[crazypianist1116]

Post #91 lacks views on other players apart from Jase; this is starting to become consistent.

What do you mean? Do you think I’m tunneling on Jase and keep doing it?

No, it's that the only person of whom you were giving opinions was Jase at the time. Which I saw annoying seeing as you could be analyzing 11 other people as well.

A quick question about it. Why did you do a big wall just to frustrate andrew. Are you friends on site?

The big text was merely referencing his sig; I wanted to make sure he saw the parts relevant to him.

I looked back and I saw it, that is a thing that happens. You say you didn't vote me because you voted Uncle Pain, but why would you vote him for something that could have been scum motivated when what you accused me of MUST have been scum motivated? It makes no sense for you not to vote me if you truly believe what you said. I'm calling BS on that.

Uncle Pain was useless up to that point and I saw him making bad moves. You on the other hand were progressing the game forward.

Moving right along, yes I saw your reasoning for accusing SC. Problem is you throw down some support for my wagon and then in the same breath you make an accusation for being on the wagon that you JUST supported. In general it seems like you don't want to be ON my wagon but you still want my wagon to succeed. You then use being on my wagon as points against two other players so you can call them out if my wagon DOES succeed, and YOU get to say "I told you there was something wrong with that wagon". Is that about right? Did I leave any part of that out?

Uncle Pain and Carcinogen voted you because you have an attitude and because (he thought) you are a bad player. Neither of which are scumtells. I however pointed out what I thought were scumtells.

wagonhopping? was i in a wagon before? i dont think so.

Wagonhopping as in hopping onto a wagon. As in you were the third vote on StefanB

I'll read the stuff that isn't self-relevant later tonight.

[Me=Weird]

yabba's post seems a bit off. Slight FoS on him.

You vote me for giving up and stating that I know that many townies belive I am scum?

Well, giving up is something that you shouldn't do, and that scum are marginally more likely to do. Also, it wasn't "many townies", when you said that, it was mainly me and imaginality, and kinda andrew. And I just read that over, and

how would you know they're townies!?

I think I've got a scumslip here.

I don't believe you. If it were true, why not say so right away?

Because that would make it useless?
crazypianists seems a bit townier.

[Mist7676]

He seems like he is giving up. "I have a towncred of -1,000,000" he is actually telling town I seem like scum! If he is giving up then selfvote so we can get you at of the way. If he isn't giving up then don't be telling town I seem like scum!

Yabba that seems like a post out of your meta. Of course people are going to go WTF about it and at least question it. If I posted an

Amazing

post people are going to question it.

I'm going to have to go slight V/

LA

for today

[-L-]

yabba's post seems a bit off. Slight FoS on him.

You vote me for giving up and stating that I know that many townies belive I am scum?

Well, giving up is something that you shouldn't do, and that scum are marginally more likely to do. Also, it wasn't "many townies", when you said that, it was mainly me and imaginality, and kinda andrew. And I just read that over, and

how would you know they're townies!?

I think I've got a scumslip here.

I don't believe you. If it were true, why not say so right away?

Because that would make it useless?
crazypianists seems a bit townier.

I agree that that was a pretty serious scumslip.

Vote: StefanB

[andrew94]

jase your wagon happened because you said yabba was scummy, even though you thought he was not scummy, then you voted stefanb.
and then, you stated that your a good player out of nowhere? right? and those people that you referred/ talked to went on your wagon.
since i wasnt involved i didnt go on your wagon. i was voting someone else i believe

[tarsonisocelot]

unvote

Why unvote me if you think I'm scum? You haven't said anything about me since

TO, on the other hand, has had a laid back affect, casually throwing out questions. From that first [second?] day, she set off my alarm bells. I voted her promptly - and I am just watching her for more confirmation, which she has been providing.

Also that thing about alarm bells being rung on the first page was the ridiculous "Good morning" thing you called suspicious when you voted.
The only other thing you've said about me is that my posts are pointless.

What did I do to make you decide to unvote?
It must have been something specific to me because you have yet to vote for anyone else.

Please vote for the person you find most suspicious and why.

Thank you for voting for someone. Still to hear why you unvoted me.



StefanB: By what reasoning do you consider the people on your wagon are town?

[StefanB]

yabba's post seems a bit off. Slight FoS on him.

You vote me for giving up and stating that I know that many townies belive I am scum?

Well, giving up is something that you shouldn't do, and that scum are marginally more likely to do. Also, it wasn't "many townies", when you said that, it was mainly me and imaginality, and kinda andrew. And I just read that over, and

how would you know they're townies!?

I think I've got a scumslip here.

I don't believe you. If it were true, why not say so right away?

Because that would make it useless?
crazypianists seems a bit townier.

Lol, that would have been very funny if I had posted that a day before and wrote "all of the town".
Yeah I was just getting of that "Some want to lynch me, the rest is thinking I am an ussless VI" so yeah that is just wrong. Also I did think that I can't defend myself in this game, because its for me twilight mafia, were black is white and white is black.
Also can someone tell me again, why everyone has a townread on Me=Weird? I just want to understand it. Not doing any mudslinging here, but some of what he makes of post is constructed many of them of technicallys and using the wrong word.
From a paranoiapoint you can add people I believed would not mind a StefanBlynch: Tarsanilot (for post 118), Uncle Pain (for post 125), Zdenek (post 128), Crazypianist (Post 138), Mist (143)
Okay the post that killed me was the scumpartnerposts 142 from imaginality, just asked myself afterwards if I should vote my townreads.
So I was kind of forgetting that [L], Jasse, SC and Jabba hadn't express somethink that was read like I don't mind lynching StefanB.
The post of Jabba and ironicly Mist brought me actually in the game, (and stopped my plan to quit the site) I just don't have that much time in the moment.
Yeah and I should have used players, I sometimes use that terms simoltanios.
If any of the players feel that I don't group them right, sorry this is not an attack, it's just what I thought about your post.

[StefanB]

Okay let's get to the case on me.
Post 96:
Post21: Why do I make a question more powerful with a vote?
Well, why not. Exspecially in the beginning, you use that is a tactick called pressure. Not in this game but normal play in other games.

Post 31: Ah, you know voting someone you don't have to say you think he is scummy, normally the vote is making this clear, also why do you think I don't want to say that I thought Yabbaguy is scummy. I know I have gotten in problems with the vocabulary before but people come on, read this in context. Anyone really could read the beginning and getting the thaught that I were beeing on the fence with yabbaguy here, really????????

Post 49: Sorry yabbaguy this is just my thinking then. He basicly answered No, I am confident and intellegent. Well normally if you get such an answer you don't unvote, you get angry. Hit a personal hot bottom by calling me VI indirectly. My game has been of since the post.

(More later)

[StefanB]

He seems like he is giving up. "I have a towncred of -1,000,000" he is actually telling town I seem like scum! If he is giving up then selfvote so we can get you at of the way. If he isn't giving up then don't be telling town I seem like scum!

Yabba that seems like a post out of your meta. Of course people are going to go WTF about it and at least question it. If I posted an

Amazing

post people are going to question it.

I'm going to have to go slight V/

LA

for today

Okay this is a WTF post. People seem to think I am scum. Even if I try to fight this and try to make people even think about it, it doesn't seem to work. Okay I have not 3 players who don't have posted that I'm scum and my main gole is to still trying to help the town. You seem to be more upset, that I vote you than anythink else.
You are the one person who explicits votes me, without even sounding like she thinks I am scum.
Actually your point is: Everyone belives you are scum, you don't really belive in chanching this, give up and die already.
This is antitown.

[StefanB]

Sorry now I really have to stop, have a nice weekend.

[crazypianist1116]

[L], I'm voting for you. If you want, you can refute my case. Regardless I want more votes for you.

[yabbaguy]

Okay, now you’re pinging my scumdar. First, you seem to ignore all the inconsistencies in StefanB’s thoughts and call him an obvious townie. I could live with you disagreeing but ignorance is never townish. Second, that odd reaction that you just can’t tell. Sounds like an obvious attempt to throw dirt at imaginality. FoS: yabbaguy.

You can assert to the contrary all you want, but you're doing exactly that. You are FoSing me because you

don't agree with me

, either that, or accusing me of simple poor play. Just look at Stefan's attitude, moreso. This is such a common attitude of people who are relatively new to the game and are getting a wagon pressed on them. Whatever logic you're looking at, it's stupid. Stop and think about all the other games where there have been floundering relative-Newbies with a high wagon on them and their reactions. This falls straight into line, Stefan's content blasting through the roof, everything.

@Stefan: How often do you get driven up in the votecount? Does it happen more when Town or scum?

yabba's post seems a bit off. Slight FoS on him.

I'm inclined to say Town just for testing someone who gave a Townread on you in a player-by-player, but you're driving me up the wall all the same. Gimme a hint.

Yabba that seems like a post out of your meta. Of course people are going to go WTF about it and at least question it. If I posted an Amazing post people are going to question it.

Yes, I generated strong reactions in order to spark discussion. That's pro-Town. You still haven't gotten the principle 7 pages later.

ocelot is now blathering as well and tilts into scum territory now. I've gotta shut my trap, all her meta's from ongoing stuff, but she's got less content here it seems. [L], I'm not sure why you pounced at that scumslip claim, I don't buy it. Help, you or M=W? I think you're both Town but are also looking into it too deeply.

Actually, I look at imaginality, and I think I'm wrong here. I feel like I'm about to do this awful bit of tunnelvisioning if I pursue it. Make me not go back to that one again, I keep seesawing on it, but it's a bad idea.

But Stefan and [L] both suck as wagons.

Unvote, Vote: tarsonisocelot

.

There, now I'm happy. If not imaginality or [L], I'll have to look who joins her and Carcinogen in a bit, but this will do.

[Jase]

I looked back and I saw it, that is a thing that happens. You say you didn't vote me because you voted Uncle Pain, but why would you vote him for something that could have been scum motivated when what you accused me of MUST have been scum motivated? It makes no sense for you not to vote me if you truly believe what you said. I'm calling BS on that.

Uncle Pain was useless up to that point and I saw him making bad moves. You on the other hand were progressing the game forward.

Moving right along, yes I saw your reasoning for accusing SC. Problem is you throw down some support for my wagon and then in the same breath you make an accusation for being on the wagon that you JUST supported. In general it seems like you don't want to be ON my wagon but you still want my wagon to succeed. You then use being on my wagon as points against two other players so you can call them out if my wagon DOES succeed, and YOU get to say "I told you there was something wrong with that wagon". Is that about right? Did I leave any part of that out?

Uncle Pain and Carcinogen voted you because you have an attitude and because (he thought) you are a bad player. Neither of which are scumtells. I however pointed out what I thought were scumtells.

AHA!...That's actually pretty reasonable. Damn, I thought I was on to something, it all fit together so well. It's reasonable to vote a less scummy, but less contributing player instead of a more scummy player who's making shit happen (In the early game specifically when we need to get the ball rolling). I can see your point about UP and SC and while it still seems odd that you'd attack them after supporting the same wagon it isn't THAT odd, and the rest of your posts have me thinking town.

Since my super cool interesting case is dead I'll throw my vote down in support of the L wagon. Just straight up making up a point, while the other one is a silly theory disagreement. Doesn't sit well. I'll look more in detail at the L wagon but it seems pretty straight forward.

Unvote
Vote: L

[Me=Weird]

yabba: can you please go through and say why you think stefan is town instead of trying to repetition brainwash us? And what do you think of the slip I caught?
I do agree some with TIO, though. Doesn't seem to have contributed much.

[-L-]

@tO: I unvoted you because I am ambivalent about your scumminess. That's enough reason to unvote.

[Mist7676]

Yabba: What do you mean the principapal 7 pages together?

[-L-]

[L], I'm voting for you. If you want, you can refute my case. Regardless I want more votes for you.

Well, frankly, you've seen me play as scum. I am much....shall we say....different. My town approach is to analyze more... but this game started out so disgustingly that I haven't even done that. I'll be honest - I haven't been involved in the game the way I wanted to be. I'm frustrated. But I'm not giving up on the game because I'm the type to see things through to their end.

Your case against me is somewhat laughable because it is untrue. Let me point out the ways:

VOTE: [L]
She's been doing a ton of talking without throwing around suspicion at all. This is particularly scummy behavior. The vote was useless essentially the entire game as it hasn't really been accompanied by much pressure and the unvote came out of nowhere. Also on my scumlist (in no particular order) are Jase, andrew94, Surprise_Carcinogen, and StefanB.

"ton of talking": This is laughable because I have 15 posts; two of which had content, and the rest only consisted of votes or up to 3 lines max. That's not a ton of talking by anyone's standards. Personally, I'd lynch people for doing as little talking as me.

"throwing around suspicion": When one throws around suspicion, they are scum. Townies cast suspicion on those they suspect, not randomly.

"vote was useless": My vote on TO was not useless, because it was not a pressure vote. I truly believe she is scum. Currently, I had to remove my vote to see how she behaves. I'm somewhat ambivalent right now, on her.

"unvote came out of nowhere": Yes, it would seem so. But I unvoted her in order to regroup my thoughts and see how she behaves. And saying that this is what I am doing is inconsequential even if she reads it.

Why are StefanB and SC on your scum list? They happen to be on mine as well.

[yabbaguy]

Yabba: What do you mean the

principapal (?!?)

7 pages together?

principle [comma] 7 pages later. So late in the game after all my discussion, you still don't understand why I made that first post.

yabba: can you please go through and say why you think stefan is town instead of trying to repetition brainwash us? And what do you think of the slip I caught?

You vote me for giving up and stating that I know that many townies belive I am scum?

Oh, that piece of rubbish? No, that's not a slip. That's Stefan acknowledging past meta. Plus perhaps he believes that the people attacking him are Town? This has happened to me before, where I think that I am up against a brickwall with stubborn Town who just won't change their minds no matter what.

So fuck your wagon, and fuck the [L] voters, too. Swap to ocelot please.

[yabbaguy]

Yeah, I'm being dramatic. But people are looking into it too deeply. [L] is actually okay, but ocelot is tons better, and I've deemed them both as an extraordinarily unlikely scum partnership.