-I don't trust Llama
-I think OGML is scum
-I trust Farside
-I'm stumped on Locke
I don't like what OGML did by voting farside. Assuming OGML is scum it seems perfect to put a mislynch (based on my Farside read) at a functional L-1 (L-2 in reality), full well knowing that his scum-buddy MoI will fly in with the quick-hammer once he really reaches L-1, essentially setting up whoever functionally hammers (put at L-1) Farside for the fall tomorrow.
I want to put my weight, however little that is, behind an OGML lynch today.
VOTE: OGML
I'm still torn on the revive issue, but will make a seperate post for that.
Like I said before I think our revive options are seacore, fate, or Vezok. It appears there is no support for a seacore revive, so I will look at either Fate or Vezok.
So far our setup looks like this:
Watcher, Tracker, Commuter, SK, Scum x2 (Ythill, MoI), Vanilla x5, ??? x7.
In an 18 player game, considering the existance of an SK, I would expect 4 mafia. That makes it:
Watcher, Tracker, Commuter, SK, Scum x4 (Ythill, MoI, ???, ???), Vanilla x5, ??? x5.
IF we believe Llama that makes it:
Watcher, Tracker, Gunsmith, Commuter, SK, Scum x4 (Ythill, MoI, ???, ???), Vanilla x5, ??? x4.
Leaving us with 4 ??? slots. I'm not sure about the percentage of Vanilla roles in most games here but 1/3 seems to be a pretty good rule of thumb, making it:
Watcher, Tracker, Gunsmith, Commuter, SK, Scum x4 (Ythill, MoI, ???, ???), Vanilla x6, ??? x3.
This suggests to me that we have 3 non-vanilla roles surviving. If we consider the revive mechanic is a disadvantage to the scum team, I would consider lowering that non-vanilla number to 2.
So where am I going with this?
I think Fate is a better revive. We have to assume (though I was proven wrong last night) that confirmed town PR's will be killed at night. So if we bring back Vezok as confirmed town PR it will ensure his death the following night. That makes me think we need to revive the player that will make the biggest difference during the course of a single day. With a confirmed town fate, scum will be forced to kill him the following night. With fate-seeking bullets flying around we could ensure that some of our unknown/surviving PRs are safe.
A Gaggle of Geese wrote:hey so llama's an investigative role.
MOI claims some sort of weirdo role that can help town should they disbbelieve an investigation role. why isn't he fucking pushing him to absolute death. i'm serious, he should have rode him so fucking hard that magna was being called shergar by the end of the game.
Why? I dont get your logic here. A backup type role fits in with the weak type setup, as at most it will get to fire off one or two times, most likely zero or one. With a mixture of the result claim on Saint, leading to the lynch of a SK (not vig) it added to me thinking it was a town role, since what use for a gunsmith shot would scum possibly have? Like I said though, he probably is exactly what he claimed, and the result being accurate + my role was more then enough to make me defend the crap out of him.
my nonlogic is HEY INVESTIGATIVE ROLES, AND OOOH EVEN MORE POSSIBLE INVESTIGATIVE ROLES. 3 is fucking dodgy, a back-up to any of them is DODGIER (making up words as I go)
A Gaggle of Geese wrote:i mean you see vezok you think 'oh okay' you see apok you 'o_o' then you hear MOI and surely you're thinking LOLK it's gotta fucking end somewhere.
Another one of the reasons I really didnt trust the Sea claim. It presented itself as an opportunity to both push my fakeclaim of amnesic harder and I thought he was scum due to not fitting the current pattern of the game, which was only investigative roles (which is what by default MoI was at that point, since only investigators were confirmed in game). I was thinking three investigators and a backup? No way anything is NK immune or protector past a SK. Sea just felt like NK-immune scum fakeclaiming. After Sea death I was a little less sure of MoI, but just the result mixed with the uselessness of gunsmith to scum made me think it made absolutely no sense for a scum role. Why give scum a role that had useless aspects to it?
”When once I asked why such demons are not seen in America, my informants giggled confusedly and said ‘They’re scared to pass the ocean, it’s too far.”
Resurrection Vote Count
5 Votes Required
Vezokpiraka (5) – Llamafluff, LynchMePls, farside22, Apokalyptika, A Gaggle of Geese
Fate (3) – MagnaofIllusion, OhGodMyLife, WrathChild
Not Voting (1):
Locke Lamora
--------------
Sacrifice Vote Count
5 Votes Required
MagnaofIllusion (7) – A Gaggle of Geese, LynchMePls, MagnaofIllusion, WrathChild, Llamafluff, farside22, OhGodMyLife
Apokalyptika (1) – MagnaofIllusion
Llama: I have been gone most of the day and I noticed you completely ignored responding to this quesiton
farside22 wrote:Before I leave for the day I also want to point out that I had a plan for Seacore to prove he was telling the truth but Llama poo'ed it here
LlamaFluff wrote:
Vote Sea
Change of plans farside. I have been mulling this over, there are two scenarios here. Scenario A, very good. Scenario B, either bad or catasrophic. Problem is it can be hard to tell the two apart without someone getting lynched or claiming (although that opens a new can of worms). I will explain all backstage (yes lol backstage again) but it needs to stay private through today. Tonight I will claim BS right out the gate, and someone will be able to claim in public tomorrow.
His reason's BS was it wasn't him doing the checking so why Llama did you not want to verfiy Seacore?
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
Apok: Short good response, what do you find scummy about my play. What do you think of Llama's lack of response or desire to clear a PR the day he could have but chose not to?
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
WrathChild wrote:RE: Llama Re-Read
Here's what really bothers me about Llama. Day 1 Llama basically claimed an innocent on Agar, but Apok and Fate were killed Night 2. Fate I could see, but Apok's kill was a mystery. Why would Apok get killed and not Llama? The only reason I could imagine is that he would be a potential Doc target and WIFOM. I can see a block instead of a kill on Lllama subsequent nights, but not night 2.
Don't forget Llama also stated he was "trying" to get scum to target him but doing his claim day 1, but then switched it day 3 or night 3 saying he was protecting what he believed was an amnesic cop, then claimed gun smith, but refused to help the claimed PR prove he was town and proceed to vote a claimed PR he could have proved was town if he had an investigation like he claimed.
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
Day 1: Fluff argument with Ythill over saying "my" in a sentence. Never indicated real suspicion of MoI or Ythill.
Night 1 backstage: There was a point where farside, talking to Ythill, said "you and me" in a situation that sounded very off. It really feels like a scumslip.
Day 2: Throws out a sacrifice vote on MoI, which wasn't really going anywhere. Admittedly, could be honest, but could very easily be distancing.
Day 3: Starts off very aggressive on MoI, but eases off a lot. FoS's him, then retracts it. I think scum were prepared to bus MoI for the quickhammer, but then were relieved when they didn't have to.
Day 4: Needs to throw out her reads again, shows no suspicion towards MoI.
Day 5: "Quickhammers" Fate revive. I think she thought it couldn't be changed once hammered, so she slipped into reviving a VT instead of a PR.
I don't know what to think of Llama's not clearing Seacore, it is concerning and I do want an answer. However, I'm much more concerned with what I see here.
Apokalyptika wrote:Day 1: Fluff argument with Ythill over saying "my" in a sentence. Never indicated real suspicion of MoI or Ythill.
That was all ythill. That was his weak attack method, which he also did to GG back stage
Night 1 backstage: There was a point where farside, talking to Ythill, said "you and me" in a situation that sounded very off. It really feels like a scumslip.
I don't recall this and have to go, can you quote so I know what you are talking about please.
Day 2: Throws out a sacrifice vote on MoI, which wasn't really going anywhere. Admittedly, could be honest, but could very easily be distancing.
I believed in Sacrifice to get a PR but got many people who didn't agree with me. I found with Ythill's flip that MOI scum flipped based on his weak argument against Ythill, which as I stated then was based on how I acted as scum in another game. (note find link for this when I have more time)
Day 3: Starts off very aggressive on MoI, but eases off a lot. FoS's him, then retracts it. I think scum were prepared to bus MoI for the quickhammer, but then were relieved when they didn't have to.
MOI was the scummiest to me this day and I pushed (at least I felt) the hardest, even with the fake claim I didn't by it because it didn't make sense and I questioned MOI about why he did "watch Fate" Why is this scummy?
Day 4: Needs to throw out her reads again, shows no suspicion towards MoI.
Yeah well I had MOI/Agar/KK in a scum team which I mentioned N3 to the BS crew.
Day 5: "Quickhammers" Fate revive. I think she thought it couldn't be changed once hammered, so she slipped into reviving a VT instead of a PR.
I explain why. What part of I see myself being quick hammered by scum before we can do a rez does not make sense to you?
I don't know what to think of Llama's not clearing Seacore, it is concerning and I do want an answer. However, I'm much more concerned with what I see here.
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
farside22 wrote:Don't forget Llama also stated he was "trying" to get scum to target him but doing his claim day 1, but then switched it day 3 or night 3 saying he was protecting what he believed was an amnesic cop, then claimed gun smith, but refused to help the claimed PR prove he was town and proceed to vote a claimed PR he could have proved was town if he had an investigation like he claimed.
Given how hard it was to keep track of what I was doing myself, image the signals I had to have been giving to scum.
Your timelines are wrong. I never really put out anything about info until day two when people started "lol derp" wagoning me early on and I responded with more or less of a "lol no" hard crumb. That got me roleblocked (shocker), and I forced my way backstage. Backstage I decided to continue the lie about my claim, and didnt get blocked. Next night I was blocked again.
Anyways, I had my reasoning for Sea which I already kind of explained this page.
We had a confirmed tracker/watcher out there, I know my role, and I believed MoI because it was like all of our roles, excpet weaker because it required one of us getting lynched first to actually be of use. What type of role doesnt make sense in this scenario? Simple answer is anything that is not an investigator, such as a doctor, or in this case a commuter. From there I was stuck with a dilemma, either I let someone I think is town get lynched, or I lynch the person I think is lying about their claim. What better way then to continue to sell my claim AND get the person im pretty sure is BP scum killed then to just run them into the ground?
I mean, at this point farside-scum probably was a little confused about what I was doing since I wasnt too keen on throwing out results, but im guessing the scum team had me pegged as something along the lines of what I am. In that case, they could just RB me and whoops, there goes a chance to clear Sea! The only way I could have possible cleared Sea was if someone backstage with me was scum and they bought my amnesic claim, which is not something I was willing to bet, so Sea had to die then and there. Way to many risks, way to little reward, especially when I was convinced that Sea was scum to start.
Still waiting for people to weight in on this more.
So here's the thing. It's got to the point now where it's hard to accurately assess Llama's claim because he's apparently been gambiting for the entire game. If WC wasn't amnesiac I was pretty sure Llama was scum, but now every time I read back something that doesn't fit with gunsmith, it can be put down to 'oh that was part of the gambit'. It basically leads to WIFOM circles when you read every one of Llama's posts relating to the claim (which would be half the point if Llama is scum). The choice of targets is about the only aspect that can really be taken at face value, and there's one thing that really does not make sense to me if Llama is gunsmith, based on how he claims he's been selecting targets:
Llama: why haven't you 'solidified' your OGML town-read?
I'm actually thinking a lot about a Seacore rez. He should live through N6, unless scum use both a kill and a block on him AND the night action resolution places block before hide (which NAR doesn't), and thus we'd be guaranteed to have a confirmed town player alive on D7, making PoE a real nightmare for any remaining scum. Either Fate or Vezo would be likely to die on N6 anyway, given how dangerous a confirmed townie would be, and I agree with WC's analysis that it'd be better to have Fate caps lock raging his way through tomorrow than Vezo not doing much at all. I actually think Vezo is the worst of the three options.
Sacrifice: MoI
Resurrect: Seacore
Elect: Apok, GG, Locke
If ya smell what The Locke is cookin'!
"Locke Lamora and Andrius, defying all logic since 1081."
This is where I was scum and doing the weak attacks that I saw from MOI. I base things I see on games I have played and observations throughout MS.
Wait: Llama what night were you blocked? You lied about which "investigation"? Are you saying you were blocked Night 2, 3 or 4?
And llama continues to ignore the question I asked about why he refused to investigate Seacore. Oh wait it's the block. Let me verify which night he was supposedly blocked first before I break his lie into smitherings.
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
farside22 wrote:
We had a confirmed tracker/watcher out there, I know my role, and I believed MoI because it was like all of our roles, excpet weaker because it required one of us getting lynched first to actually be of use. What type of role doesnt make sense in this scenario? Simple answer is anything that is not an investigator, such as a doctor, or in this case a commuter. From there I was stuck with a dilemma, either I let someone I think is town get lynched, or I lynch the person I think is lying about their claim. What better way then to continue to sell my claim AND get the person im pretty sure is BP scum killed then to just run them into the ground?
Why does a computer not make sense? Why would a doctor not make sense with 2 kills? With a Rez going on in the game how does a 1-shot BS make sense?
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
Why Llama is scum and connections I see to another scum.
Llama stated day 2:
Spoiler:
Apoc showed some strength in stepping behind the Ghost wagon early as it got pushed, which I saw as town. After that he moved to AGar which I liked the wagon of at the time, now not so much, but I still think starting his own wagon is a town tell. I like his analysis, and his ideas really are more original then not, and you can see them come around which I just see as something that tends to be hard to fake, especially from new players.
A post later:
I am more willing to vote Apoc today given what has been recetly pointed out, SGR bugs me a little, although he was actually pushing on Ythill for a bit before he completely dropped him. Still doing some reading between the two, trying to figure out if the SGR thing was a wierd distance/bus thing or not. Seas last post pings a bit too.
Basically this is not town in any way shape for form. He goes form Apok town to a quick ohhh i see a wagon I could get onto.
Then near the end of the day:
LlamaFluff wrote:
OhGodMyLife wrote:seacore keeps talking about things that aren't scumhunting. the setup. other games. lots and lots and lots of text about stuff that isn't scumhunting.
Apoc lynch or Sea lynch better?
I can really go for either at this point, but Apoc is looking better to me at this point
Vote Apoc
That should be L-1.
He never even has a reason for his Apoc vote except to follow others, when he stated not too long ago this day that he found Apok town.
The night before that Llama was supposedly stated he investigated
Now, im going back and forth between SGR, Sea and Apoc for votes right now. SGR I would love to vote if it wasnt for the early posts with him and Ythill, which do not read like two scum sniping back and forth from SGR standpoint, who would have had to just fly off the handle at something a more useful partner did. I just see it more as a town-scum scenario despite the later options open stance that SGR took.
He has a bit of suspicion according to this post on SGR I note this because he says today he fake claimed a result on SGR. Why fake claim on someone you have some suspicion about?
Day 3:
Please note that Llama before this post never mentions MOI or reason's why he is voting MOI.
Spoiler:
LlamaFluff wrote:I dont want an AGar sacrafice.
elect GG
elect Llama
elect LMP
Sacrafice Sea
Vote MoI
Revive Apoc
I like the sea sac/lynch far more then the SGR one at this point.
LlamaFluff wrote:We are not lynching or sacraficing AGar when I have a mod message saying that he is not scum. Its not happening. Period.
I also dont really see logic behind the attack on Saint at this point either. That slot reads a very solid null.
Will see if I cant get a bit of a Sea case up over the next couple days. I still say the MoI/Sea combo is the way to go about it today.
Still no case or reasoning why MOI
LlamaFluff wrote:
unvote
vote seacore
I just realized something, MoI should have a very proveable role, and I dont think it can possibly be a scum role unless Saint flips town vig. If Saint is a SK, and MoI is telling the truth, we have a townie that gained the ability of a SK (so we have a vig). If there are not two kills in one night, then MoI is lying about his ability, if there are two kills, MoI is not lying. I also really doubt as im rambling that MoIs role can be scum because it would give scum two kills in one night, which seems little swingy. If Saint is a SK, its massively swingy since it punishes the town for lynching SK before a memebr of scum, so I dont see it as a scum role. If Saint is scum, again MoI cant be scum with him since the ability would be proven a lie almost instantly, if Saint flips non-killer, we just auto-sac MoI tomorrow. If Saint flips mafia or SK, it makes MoI town. If Saint flips vig, then we are back at square one, but with (presumeably) a Ythill and Fate kill, im guessing anti-town.
We wait for Saint regardless to claim, but I think this claim will work itself out overnight, or if anyone else visted Fate they can just insta-bust it. In the meantime, we can lynch Sea-scum.
Oh look lets clear MOI and say how town that role could be.
Spoiler:
LlamaFluff wrote:
farside22 wrote:
LlamaFluff wrote:Im not saying quick lynch, but I still have a lingering town read from OGML day one, and his ask to be sacrafied added to that a bit. He has given back a few points as of late, but he isnt one of my prefered lynches. Will take more then "he lurks" to make me flip on that one.
I don't have a lingering feeling any more on OGML. Fate had a point but since OGML didn't follow threw it doesn't = town. Also the sacrafice is null. Scum could say it to look town, town says it when for reason's that I don't want to get into as it's more info for scum.
What points of late has he made?
I still consider the asking to be sacraficed a slight town tell. As of late he has done nothing though, and I really disagree with most of his reads on people. Either way, not enough to push the lynch of him at this point. Day three is not the right place and time for a lurker wagon. It would be nice to know his flip, but not nice enough to put it over Sea.
Llama hemming and hawing of OGML. I believe this to be scum team by the way. He says OGML is town but null. He aslo stated he had a town read on OGML but when push came to shove could not respond to a reason and thus you have the statement above.
LlamaFluff wrote:I cant get behind a MoI lynch at this point.
We essentially have a claim-counterclaim situation, where one of them is a whole lot more realistic. What I dont like is how many people are voting each of them, when the Saint-scum side is througougly busted at this point.
What I am seeing is a large group of people going to getting the scum lynch and the PR lynch all at once.
The sacrafice of Saint with the lynch of another is the best way to go about this, since it leaves most likely MoI-town alive, ends up with Sain-scum dead, and we get another shot at scum, which means we can do better then 1/2, which is the best we can realistically do with the Saint-MoI combo here.
In regards to the bold where was this thought process with Seacore when he claimed commuter?
llama wrote:
Scum-SK I can see happening, but I just dont feel too much.
Doesn't explain why he doesn't "feel" it.
Llama wrote:There aint any. People are just trying to get the lynch of scum and a PR at once here and there either are enough town sheeping or just being dense to start getting it through. MoI is NOT SCUM. His actions make zero sense coming from scum, yet the make perfect sense coming from town. You dont lynch the claim/counterclaim pair, you lynch the one that is scum, which is Saint.
Wasn't Llama voting for MOI this day.....yup I quoted it above. So what happened to that suspicion from Llama, you know the one he never made a case on or mentioned when he voted MOI in the first place?
LlamaFluff wrote:I know its hard to crumb a power early, but a few awkwardly worded phrases about how you "will wait to look at someone until that night" can work wonders. Even if you are "not good" at scumhunting, you really did nothing in the early game that would draw a kill, not even a try really. You just sheeped people more then anything else, which does nothing to draw a kill, and actually does the exact opposite.
Where was this question to MOI about his role? Why not ask him about any crumbs?
LlamaFluff wrote:
unvote
Not sure if I want KK over OGML right now, but I see what farside is getting at and need to reevaluate a little. Still dislike the MoI lynch though, but as Sea, it should easily be proveable.
Why would you unvote and say this if you were "RB" during one of your investigations?
LlamaFluff wrote:
Vote Sea
Change of plans farside. I have been mulling this over, there are two scenarios here. Scenario A, very good. Scenario B, either bad or catasrophic. Problem is it can be hard to tell the two apart without someone getting lynched or claiming (although that opens a new can of worms). I will explain all backstage (yes lol backstage again) but it needs to stay private through today. Tonight I will claim BS right out the gate, and someone will be able to claim in public tomorrow.
And here is scum with an way to lynch a PR without trying. Congrats Llama on pushing to lynch a town PR that scum would like to see gone more.
LlamaFluff wrote:I see the KK stuff, I do. I just am not overly confident on it due to how much getting an actual town read on ani has me confused on him. I think at this point I would vote KK over OGML simply due to my town read on OGML, I fail to see how continually asking to be killed is a scumtell (yes WIFOM I know) but when my top read is aggressively trying to oblige that deathwish, im not down for that one.
Sea >> KK >> OGML
Please come back now, the plan has a fatal flaw in it depending on a few things. This isnt a "oh it might give us a false result" its more like "this can cause a couple of mislynches" thing. If you think Sea is scum, follow me on this one. Its not like I can get away without backing it up in the immediate future.
Still not explaining the OGML town read and keeps pushing him back to the pack.
Llama wrote:I dont agree with the way he is playing, or too many of his reads, but I do have a town read on him because I cant for the life of me see anyone who is going to take a OGML-scum lynch to the bank. Also the fact that he was trying to make himself dead when there was a SK alive. That makes giving town points to your partners even more dangerous, since putting yourself too far up there can actually make you a target.
I don't understand this. Please explain.
Also you thought my theory was scummy about MOI but LL followed it up and explained it during day 3 why do you ignore that?
The Night that LLama supposedly investigated LMP he never said anything pro or con in any way shape or form. So why investigate someone you don't have anythign to say to or about?
LlamaFluff wrote:Leave for a couple days and people just go apeshit...
We arent killing MoI, chances are he still is town here, same situation applies for GG. Although he isnt at the same level as the other two, OGML is not getting lynched either. We also arent sacraficing today, that happens tomorrow.
Now, not that it matters much at this point, but I will throw out all results of mine since we are getting to the point where it can probably clear out quite a few players. BS players know how to take this so I wont claim 100%, but this is what I have so far apart from the N1 innocent.
N2 - SGR (now ooba) is not mafia
N3 - LMP is not mafia
Vote KK
Why would someone town clear a person they had a slight suspicion on day 2?
LlamaFluff wrote:
MagnaofIllusion wrote:
LlamaFluff wrote:
We arent killing MoI, chances are he still is town here, same situation applies for GG. Although he isnt at the same level as the other two, OGML is not getting lynched either. We also arent sacraficing today, that happens tomorrow.
More on the rest of this post when I have time but ..
FUCK NO
.
Simply put you don't get to take two obv-scum in Gaggle in OGML off the table. No dice.
And we aren't lynching KK today. Sorry, I have a bigger Town read on him than you.
Wow, im hurt.
I am taking GG off the table. I am also taking OGML and you off the table, and then im taking ooba and LMP off the table. This aint a buffet, there is a nice resturant with a menu and you can select only one item.
Aaaaahhhh how cute. Look at the scum MOI trying to talk with his scum partner in game. Llama even states a bit of suspicion in his post but doesn't follow threw with it.
More questions to Llama: If you believed MOI was town at the endo of the day 3 why did you not elect him to go BS? Same question about day 4, why not elect him to go backstage then?
Also look at Llama scum quote here:
I just do not want a lynch of ooba, LMP, MoI or GG today. We arent lynching any of them, we arent going to sacrafice anyone. This really quick snap GG wagon just makes me uncomfortable.
And 2 post later:
LlamaFluff wrote:
A Gaggle of Geese wrote:LLama's COP is getting narrower. Claim your results. I'm really wanting to lynch you by now. OGML still town, just in case you've not been reading the game.
No result last night, as in I didnt get anything. No clue what that means, maybe amnesic got RBed or scum is toying with me.
Sacrafic MoI
Revive Vezok
Elect Apok
Elect LMP
Elect OGML
Amnesic should claim now.
What happened to not lynching MOI and finding him town to suddenly (without a reason anywhere) sacrificing him?
Night one I did get a no gun on AGar, I picked him due to really having no good idea on where he was, but seeing that he would be useful as town, and could start a chain reaction of lynches as scum. Night two is where I decided to lie a little, I tried to target SGR just to solidify a town read, but I actually got roleblocked. Thats why I never really claimed a result the next day, just sort of stalled around saying I wanted to go backstage to explain everything. While being intentionally ambiguous during the day is when I had that idea of trying to gambit, why not make a move to test if the people backstage were actually scum or not?
Oh it was night 2. Good i get to blow Llama's lie wide open now.
Lmp and GG where backstage with me Night 1 when ythill commented that he believed Llama was a PR that day do to the weak claim he had on day 1, which all of us BS talked about.
Also on Night 3 while BS that Llama is neglecting is he claimed he hinted day 1 to draw a night kill to protect the "amnesic cop". It was also for those who lack memory skills or the desire to go back and read that I voted for llama day 2.
Ythill had made his statement Night 1 and seeing Llama alive did not make sense to me. Why would scum keep alive someone they believe is a PR? Now Llama is claiming he was RB night 2 because of his little WIFOM show. Why would scum not RB him night 1 if they believe he was a PR, but RB on night 2 do to a claim?
llama wrote:Now, last night I actually got blocked again. Im guessing MoI is exactly what he claims and watched me looking for the non existant amnesic, and then realized that I was just screwing with them and really was an info role.
how does this even compute if MOI used his 1-shot watch against Fate?
Llama wrote:Also scum killed VIs... your point being? My best guess is that they could kill a town leader PR and dont want to deal with that resurection, like if I got killed by Saint instead of Ythill, thats a very dangerous role coming back since it has info AND it is confirmed town AND a scumhunting threat.
And this was the theory I had and stated I believe Night 2 to those BS. See this is why I asked why he that a VT claim would save him. It doesn't because scum were being smart I believe and not killing who they believed were PR's because of the rez ability for the town.
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
Llama never made a case on MOI but voted for him. He was inconsistant in his reasoning when it came to voting for Apok. He calls MOI town during the whole lynch of Seacore but wants to sacrifice him the next day without a reason.
Basically even short for those like Apok. He was weak bussing his partner MOI, never gave reason then saw an opportunity to clear his scum buddy and lynch a PR in the process.
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
farside22 wrote:The night before that Llama was supposedly stated he investigated
Now, im going back and forth between SGR, Sea and Apoc for votes right now. SGR I would love to vote if it wasnt for the early posts with him and Ythill, which do not read like two scum sniping back and forth from SGR standpoint, who would have had to just fly off the handle at something a more useful partner did. I just see it more as a town-scum scenario despite the later options open stance that SGR took.
He has a bit of suspicion according to this post on SGR I note this because he says today he fake claimed a result on SGR. Why fake claim on someone you have some suspicion about?
He would read as scuumy BUT there are major interaction tells that point to SGR-town is having suspicions about someone?
Please note that Llama before this post never mentions MOI or reason's why he is voting MOI.
Fine... Moi was scummy because he quick hammered Apoc day two without a claim in an obviously L-1 scenario.
Oh look lets clear MOI and say how town that role could be.
Not going to lie. I was convinced the role was town, and im still pretty sure he is exactly what he claimed.
Llama hemming and hawing of OGML. I believe this to be scum team by the way. He says OGML is town but null. He aslo stated he had a town read on OGML but when push came to shove could not respond to a reason and thus you have the statement above.
Are you using the arguement that I am scum because OGML is scum here?
LlamaFluff wrote:I cant get behind a MoI lynch at this point.
We essentially have a claim-counterclaim situation
, where one of them is a whole lot more realistic. What I dont like is how many people are voting each of them, when the Saint-scum side is througougly busted at this point.
What I am seeing is a large group of people going to getting the scum lynch and the PR lynch all at once.
The sacrafice of Saint with the lynch of another is the best way to go about this, since it leaves most likely MoI-town alive, ends up with Sain-scum dead, and we get another shot at scum, which means we can do better then 1/2, which is the best we can realistically do with the Saint-MoI combo here.
In regards to the bold where was this thought process with Seacore when he claimed commuter?
Because the bold only existed due to the underlined.
llama wrote:
Scum-SK I can see happening, but I just dont feel too much.
Doesn't explain why he doesn't "feel" it.
MoI as scum taking down SK-Saint wouldnt give him not-mafia credit. So didnt expect it.
Llama wrote:There aint any. People are just trying to get the lynch of scum and a PR at once here and there either are enough town sheeping or just being dense to start getting it through. MoI is NOT SCUM. His actions make zero sense coming from scum, yet the make perfect sense coming from town. You dont lynch the claim/counterclaim pair, you lynch the one that is scum, which is Saint.
Wasn't Llama voting for MOI this day.....yup I quoted it above. So what happened to that suspicion from Llama, you know the one he never made a case on or mentioned when he voted MOI in the first place?
MoI claimed, role was obvious, it offset everything else. This seems to be one of your only points as much as it keeps coming back.
LlamaFluff wrote:I know its hard to crumb a power early, but a few awkwardly worded phrases about how you "will wait to look at someone until that night" can work wonders. Even if you are "not good" at scumhunting, you really did nothing in the early game that would draw a kill, not even a try really. You just sheeped people more then anything else, which does nothing to draw a kill, and actually does the exact opposite.
Where was this question to MOI about his role? Why not ask him about any crumbs?
His role claim was solid and already backed up by a result.
So I've been thinking, and the problem with the Gunsmith claim is that usually gunsmith is supposed to be a weaker version of a cop (ie they can get a false positive). But in this game, we haven't had a vig right? We only had an SK. Which would make the gunsmith a full fledged cop. In other words, in order for a gunsmith to exist, there must exist characters who show up positive but aren't scum . Otherwise it would just be a cop with some inv-immune scum.
So if LF is a gunsmith, where are our false positive players? I hope this makes sense.
"LynchMePls is more town than all the players I've ever declared to be townies. And that's never going to change." - Drippereth
^^For the record, I'm not necessarily saying if those roles exist they should claim them, I'm simply explaining a problem I have with the claim and saying that we haven't seen any flips that would corroborate LF's claim.
"LynchMePls is more town than all the players I've ever declared to be townies. And that's never going to change." - Drippereth
Sorry for spamming, but the fact is that the existence of an SK rather than a vig is what is giving me trouble with gunsmith claim. I'd expect gunsmith in a game with a vig (who shows up positive to GS).
"LynchMePls is more town than all the players I've ever declared to be townies. And that's never going to change." - Drippereth
To farside, and anyone else who may want to know: The post I was talking about was Night 1 backstage post 64.
I gotta say, though, farside makes some good points here, as does LMP. i do think that believing MoI is a null-tell, though; I certainly believed him.
Also, general question: I read the book quickly when I signed up for the game, so I don't remember it perfectly, but was Jesse James ever mentioned? I can't believe I glossed over that bit before, but that's the first name claim that I don't recall and that bothers me.
