Battle for Olympus - Game Over!

[Axelrod]

To Gandalf: This is from A Clash of Kings Mafia, which was the last game I played here. A couple of people in this game were also in that game.

Axelrod's ranting

Currently I'm waiting for Baby Spice to show back up and say something. Then we'll see.

I like how Quadz has been posting recently. And the Hydra is doing a pretty good job of at least looking like they're conferring about people outside the game - which a scum Hydra could do, but it's trickier to completely fake outside-the-thread conversations about how scummy someone is.

[gandalf5166]

Gandalf’s 342

makes me face-palm. Gandalf are you seriously this lost in a game without Fate that this is going to be the result?

No, fate actually fucks up my reads. I do MUCH better without him, and this is something I actually have empirical evidence of.

[gandalf5166]

Gandalf’s 342

makes me face-palm. Gandalf are you seriously this lost in a game without Fate that this is going to be the result?

No, fate actually fucks up my reads. I do MUCH better without him, and this is something I actually have empirical evidence of.

I know this because in a recent game, I compiled a list of all the games where I rocked face: The only ones Fate was in were the ones where even though i caught scum, i couldn't get them lynched.

[Iecerint]

Iecerint’s 382 – so you don’t approve of either Top current wagon (Baby or diddin)?. I’ll go back and look at SA3 to see if you actually pushed BabySpice.

I didn't push her, really, but I thought she was scum back then. I think my replace-in posts will reflect it IIRC. The relevant part is that there is a difference in my impression (i.e. whether I pushed my scum reads as a town player in the past seems pretty irrelevant to me, at least).

I have become ambivalent about diddin.

Iecerint’s 387 is pretty scummy. You are using incomplete meta to vote a player? On the heels of Chesskid’s call? Possible distancing noted if LC is scum (which I don't buy)

I didn't like any of the existing wagons, so CK's pressure request looked good to me. The meta information was just a bonus.

[MagnaofIllusion]

No, fate actually fucks up my reads. I do MUCH better without him, and this is something I actually have empirical evidence of.

Then let’s discuss your read on SD. First the facts –

1. SD has claimed Poseiden – Town JK effectively.
2. AGar has claimed role-based info that confirms Poseiden is actually in the game.
3. Mod has confirmed that Greek Gods CANNOT be Mafia, but may be some nebulous 3rd party role.

So unless AGar was willing to lie to get his Mafia partner off (which I doubt very highly he would do so early Day 1) SD can’t be Mafia. Either that or AGar would have to be completely stupid Town to lie about that. AGar isn't stupid.

That leaves the only non-Town realistic possibility about SD is 3rd Party.

1. Claiming Jailkeep makes little sense as a Serial Killer from a Power standpoint. Firstly it doesn’t USUALLY match the powers available to the role. I’m not ruling out 100% that a Serial Killer couldn’t have a role-blocking secondary power.
2. Claiming Jailkeep puts SD directly in the line of sight of the Mafia team as Serial Killer. Even with expected NK protection that isn’t a good spot. All it takes is the first caught scum who know SD is Bulletproof to state so in thread.

In summary I’m saying that even if your gut on SD is right and he is the Serial Killer he isn’t getting lynched today for the above reasons. Pick another scummy player to press and come back to SD when evidence suggests we have a Serial Killer floating around.

--

I didn't push her, really, but I thought she was scum back then. I think my replace-in posts will reflect it IIRC. The relevant part is that there is a difference in my impression (i.e. whether I pushed my scum reads as a town player in the past seems pretty irrelevant to me, at least).

The push element goes to credibility of your statements, IMO. As to your impression – is using a single game of Meta the backbone of your reasoning? What do you think about the elements of her play I laid out briefly in 474?

I didn't like any of the existing wagons, so CK's pressure request looked good to me. The meta information was just a bonus.

So CK floats into the thread and says “Iecerint is scum, we need to put him at L-3” and it makes sense to just vote that way because you don’t like the two leading wagons? I don’t think so.

Why is LC scum? Haven’t seen anything significant from anyone on the issue and I have a gut Town read so far based on his SnowBunny thoughts and Gemini interaction.

[Iecerint]

It's more like "I have certain feelings about players. Here are the results of personal introspection into the reasons for those feelings."

I am not ready to lynch LC or call him scum, no. I don't think I have done that anywhere. Correct me if I am mistaken.

I have nothing on LC beyond what I have already stated.

[gandalf5166]

@MoI: I don't care what logic says. I'm looking at SD's actions, and they don't make sense from the perspective of a town role. They're EXACTLY what I would expect from third party. Also, in a vanillaless game, fakeclaiming JK has little risk. I AM SAYING: TOMORROW, IF WE DO NOT LYNCH SD, AN EXTRA TOWNIE DIES

THATS AN EXTRA LYNCH EVERY TWO DAYS

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MoI:

I don't care what logic says

. I'm looking at SD's actions, and they don't make sense from the perspective of a town role. They're EXACTLY what I would expect from third party. Also, in a vanillaless game, fakeclaiming JK has little risk. I AM SAYING: TOMORROW, IF WE DO NOT LYNCH SD, AN EXTRA TOWNIE DIES

I've bolded why I'm not going to listen to you for an extended period of time. You've not bothered to explain why SD being 3rd Party ASSURES he is a Serial Killer. Come back when you can make a reasonable attempt at communication.

[quadz08]

Hey guys. I have a very, very busy week ahead of me. I should be able to find to do some ISOs and respond to the questions posed of me, but in case I don't, this is me letting you know.

Mod: Semi V/LA until Monday, please.

[gandalf5166]

Eh. i'm nearly certain he's not a survivor due to his "LOL if i CLAIMED SURVIVOR YOU WOULDNT LYnCH ME RITE?", so he's at least anti-town. And my point is that I'm tired of losing games because people are figuring out shit logically instead of following their gut.

[chesskid3]

gandalf what part of this game is vanillaless and he has no buddies so he'll be a pretty obviously confirmed JKer pretty soon if he is one


isn't
getting
through

[gandalf5166]

gandalf what part of this game is vanillaless and he has no buddies so he'll be a pretty obviously confirmed JKer pretty soon if he is one


isn't
getting
through

LOL

The fact that it's vanillaless means he can get away with NOT being confirmed. There are a million possible explanations as to why his action might have failed.

[chesskid3]

uh no

I see no reason for any pro-town role to target his ass at night, so no, I expect roleblocked people tomorrow.

[gandalf5166]

uh no

I see no reason for any pro-town role to target his ass at night, so no, I expect roleblocked people tomorrow.

And the mafia won't target him whyyyyyyyyyy?

[chesskid3]

If they really want to waste a night action to keep him unconfirmed, they can go for it.

It means more town actions free to hit mafia, so ok then

[AurorusVox]

Hey, sorry for my disappearance, I had to unexpectedly catch a train to another part of the country, to sign documents for a flat I'm renting a few days earlier than I thought, and I've been without internet since Thursday. Urgh.

Last time I checked in was like, page 5, so I'll do a re-read of the thread and catch up on anything that I've missed from other people / comment on any shenanigans that need commenting. I've got a few other games to catch up on as well, one of which has deadline very soon, so it might be a while before my post comes up.

Again, apologies for my absence.

[Shadow Dancer]

Uuhh... All those walls. I have a headache. Maybe later...

[gandalf5166]

If they really want to waste a night action to keep him unconfirmed, they can go for it.

It means more town actions free to hit mafia, so ok then

I'm not saying mafia WILL. I'm saying he'll SAY they did.

[AGar]

Ugh, Gandalf is acting too stupid right now.

@Gandalf

Read this one more time: If Shadow Dancer was an anti-town faction in this game, I think Charon would be pushing the limits of a bastardly move given the information I have. Now drop it.

[AurorusVox]

AV's Olympian Wall Catch Up Post of Justice

I'll be indicating where I would have changed my votes. I've got 15 pages worth of votes to make so there are a couple of switches in there. It's also a wall. Sorry.

@MoI:
Your point here is a good one. I didn't consider the possibility of safeclaims when I made that post.

---

@SB, in response to this:
Yes I think random voting (as far as that means voting for a PLAYER in the game) is useful because it helps us to draw connections and can cause pressure to build. Not voting for a player weakens voting analysis that can be used against you.

And YOU'RE the one who suggested that your vote was not useful;

Why do you get the idea that I vote the mod because it is useful?

---

Gemini
I meant that it may be a meta towntell for SB but I can't see why town would do it, so it's worse than null imo. I don't use Meta very often, but I do use VC analysis.

You say my question was loaded but if he'd said he doesn't find RVS useful, then fine - that explains why he didn't RV. My "useful (read: protown)" point was related to the above that I've quoted - where SB says he doesn't think the MODVOTE is useful, but did it anyway. Can you explain why any town player should do something that they themselves don't think is useful?

---

SD's wagon & AGar's Info:

I like that people continued to pressure SD after his claim. Makes me think its a towndriven wagon, since scum are likely to hop off.

Not sure what to make of Chess having a similar role to SD :\

Ranger strikes me as having town's best interests at heart here. SD flails really badly, and is playing very scummy in general. I sympathise with the people who still think he's scum against all other information.

---

Deke's vote here is scummy. Why didn't he put the vote down first? Someone has to start the wagon. Scum trying to distance themselves from a vote, methinks.

Unvote;
Vote: Dekes

---

Diddin's reasons for voting me is odd, as the few posts I was able to make have included questions, so I'm not sure where he gets the idea that I'm not posting anything original from. Questions generally are made up by the person asking them. There was more here but MoI covered it pretty well in this post.

Dekes makes a good point against Diddin afterwards, with Chess going from scum to a good wagon partner in no time at all.

I don't like Dekes, but I also don't Diddin for the reason that Dekes has stated. Ugh. Dekes floating a balloon before voting Diddin could indicate distancing between them. I'll be looking at their interaction from here on out.

---

BabySpice's lack of vote is very scummy.

When she does vote, its accidentally for the wrong player, despite previously finding another player scummy. This is a messy, messy string of posts from BS.

Unvote;
Vote: BabySpice

---

I still consider BS the scummiest player.

Why did your vote switch to Gemini if you thought BS was the scummiest player? Your vote only changed after Mothrax called you out on it. It was literally in the very next post.

Unvote; Vote: Diddin

---

I haven't been able to get any read on AV due to him being nearly invisible in the thread

^just want to point out that non-game related issues are at the heart of this. I usually post a lot, and I don't lurk as scum or town.

---

RULECHANGEGATE

SD flails miserably after the rulechange.

If I where a Poseidon SK, do you really think I wouldn't have asked the mod to correct the roles before claiming?

Clearly someone didn't ask the mods to change the rules before the game started. If you'd asked for the rulechange immediately before your claim, it'd have been outed just as if it happened afterwards. The timing could mean you hoped you'd get away with it. This is all pointless WIFOM conjecture on your part, and we can only base our opinions on your play. Your play so far has been really scummy, but we can wait and see what comes of it.

---

Gandalf strikes me as town with his continued SD pressure. I disagree with Gandalf about lynching SD (I don't think SKs make the best D1 lynches since there's always a crosskill chance) but his pursuit of SD seems to be honestly motivated.

---

When I played with BabySpice scum in Stars Aligned III, I thought she was the scummiest player in the universe.

Not sure how BS isn't very scummy in this game. Diddin is scummier, sure. But Iec isn't voting Diddin either.
Iec; why is BS not very scummy in this game?

---

Both need pressure
but LC wagon has support atm so

Chess, you voted LC when Chrono had a bigger wagon earlier in the thread. Why was that, if you're voting for whoever has the best support?

---

More illogical posts from Diddin.

---

SD is like a rabid animal. I think we just need to leave him in a cardboard box until tomorrow and reassess him from there.

---

Gandalf makes a dumb post here, and Chess calls him out on it. But he doesn't follow it up with anything like a "wagon ho" etc - Chess, what

is

your read on Gandalf?

You call him scum but I can't tell how srs you're being. Is he scummier than either of the Chronos?

---

This is a good point from the hydra. Contradictions are a great scumtell. Not so sold on BS disappearing specifically being scummy since she did announce V/LA, though.

---

@Gandalf

Read this one more time: If Shadow Dancer was an anti-town faction in this game, I think Charon would be pushing the limits of a bastardly move given the information I have. Now drop it.

The rule change means that SD could very well be an anti-town faction if by that you include 3rd parties. It wouldn't be bastardly at all.

---

In summary,
Dekes, Diddin and BS are scummy. Diddin and BS are the worst most recently, with Diddin scummiest out of all three.
SD is flailing and scummy but should not be lynched today.

[diddin]

Umm considering I got off that top wagon to pressure Gemini, it's not just because it's the top wagon. I still consider BS the scummiest player.

I see you completely dodged my questions at 305. Here – I’ll requote them for you so you ABSOLUTELY can’t miss them.

1. Why didn’t you mention said post (Gemini’s post casting suspicion on AV) when describing why you voted AV originally?
2. So you agree with Gemini’s posts regarding AV and suddenly noticed that the hydra hadn’t voted yet which they specifically addressed in several posts was going to happen since they are a hydra? And that is vote-worthy?

To put it bluntly … so what? Lack of content is lack of content. How do you know AV wasn’t catching up? Why is only posting in RVS an excuse?

--

1. I only saw it on a second skim, but agreed with it.
2. I saw it. I just don't and didn't like all the extreme caution coming from the hydra. I also dislike how they voted in the post replying to my suspicion for not voting. Thy crumbled under my pressure.

[Iecerint]

Not that BS's not somewhat scummy; just that I didn't get the same scummy sirens I got when I read through SA3. I don't know townBS, but it seems like a different person. Same kind of thing as my reasoning to support a wagon on LC.

[AurorusVox]

So to clarify;

BS isn't townish, only less scummy than normal, so she's not scum.
LC isn't scummish, only less townie than normal, so he's not town.

Is that about right?

[Iecerint]

I suppose. That's not how the logic plays out, though. The logic is:

A) I know X as Y role.
B) X currently differs from X-as-Y.
C) Therefore, X must be (X-as-Y)'.

And then I'm presuming that the explanation for (X-as-Y)' is different alignment. (Though it could realistically be other things.)

[gandalf5166]

@MoI-re:AGar: I think he means that the same info that tells him that Poseidon is in the game also strongly implies that he is town/not SK.

Ah well.

Unvote
VOTE: Diddin