Battle for Olympus - Game Over!

[diddin]

Chess can be pretty accurate sometimes, yes, but he spends most of his time just being annoying and derailing good discussion. This is why I generally support PL's of him.

[Gemini]

I don't think SD is good lynch today. At WORST he is a "non-town aligned" Greek god, but he is not scum. Based on my past games here, I feel like, unless there is a cult, it's to the advantage of a third party player to play pro-town, at least at the beginning. A third party player is very motivated to kill scum and appear pro-town, and can actually be helpful to the town at the beginning of a game. As long as there are other lynch candidates I would prefer to try to lynch actual mafia now and keep an eye on a possible third party player. I also agree with the point that he's claimed his regular action and it's not a killing action so we can at least verify that he's not an SK.

I am coming around to the idea that BS could be just a very poorly playing town player, but I also notice that now that the focus has slid away from her, she's disappeared. If she's not going to contribute anything and her kids distract her so much she can't even get her vote right, then I question her ability to contribute and I think at best she's 50/50 town because she could still be scum who's genuinely distracted/apathetic as well. The thing about VIs, is that being a VI doesn't automatically make them town. It just makes them harder to get a good read on, particularly if they are low activity. I'll keep our vote on her pending conferral with my partner because I think she is a decent lynch choice, but I think she's probably an even better vig candidate and I would rather move my vote to Diddin.

Diddin:

(1)

]Chess has town and scum meta? Please, do share.

(2)

Vote: Chesskid. He's being scummier than usual

Does not compute. If you have no meta on Chess, Diddin, then what exactly do you mean by "scummier than usual?" What is he doing that's scummier than usual?

The bad point about Chess being scum because of claiming a similar power to SD has been discussed, and his claiming not to know the game was vanillaless sounds like scrambling for an excuse, especially because it's not actually relevant since Chesskid's claiming of similar powers isn't a scum move regardless of how many VTs are in the game or not.

Then attention is turned on him and his next several posts are flailing, throwing as many candidates against the wall as he can, hoping someone sticks, with several votes for different people in succession. Every since he came under fire he's been spreading out suspicion on as many different players as he can, which I feel is typical scum when they are trying desperately to turn attention elsewhere.

FoS: Diddin

I'd be happy to lynch this guy if my hydra partner agrees.

Mockingjaye has also expressed suspicion of Axelrod in our QT. I haven't had time to go back and read him. I have had a sort of gut uneasiness there, but nothing concrete enough for me to call him scum. I can't remember why MJ said Axelrod - it was in response to the thread, so I'd have to go back and read, but if she is around today she can explain.

-kt

[chesskid3]

I knew this game was vanillaless I don't see why a role and a role that is essentially exactly the same would both be in the setup though
Where was that discussed?

[Plum]

1. Again, with expected Mod provided Fake-claims how do you expect to catch any scum?
2. Isn’t asking for a mass color claim just potentially giving scum a free pass to more effectively hunt for roles they might think are more dangerous?

1. It's possible various color-groups will be able to determine whether a given color claim is plausible or not. This depends on how color information varies in the Role PMs. It's possible it will do little to help in any given instance, but when someone is run up and pressed to claim I see no general downside to color-claiming as well, even if the information payoff is less likely.

2. I would certainly not ask for a mass color claim. I never did. I asked from SD, because he was my top suspect, was pressured to claim (which he mostly but not fully did) and if there was any potential information lurking in his color it might as well, to my mind, be brought out into the open. Someone stupid also claimed his color in the aftermath. I'm not sure why (threadskimming gone awry?). I never encouraged that.

Magna - it was potentially a piece of information worth using as a basis for comparison and fleshing things out. I did notice the different colors in the pre-game character deaths and, comparing them with my own color information, thought that a color-claim at this time could potentially help confirm or weaken the claim in the eyes of at least specific player-roles.

I don't see that color claim will be helpful to town at all, given that SD says his is teal-blue, you said yours is pink, and the pre-game death ones are a different color entirely. Why would you think that the color used in the role pm is likely to help confirm a claim?

I didn't say anything about my color. I think a color claim is more likely to make a claim less plausible than confirm a claim (or confirm a claim as false), and in most claiming situations any information which has a reasonable chance of making the claim look somewhat more or less likely (possibly only to certain players, depending) is worth searching out. I also didn't see how it could hurt.

V/LA through Tuesday night/Wednesday morning (should be the last one for a long while, sorry - last bit of Passover &c.)

Will catch up properly ASAP and sorry about the mess

[gandalf5166]

I think colors are specific to character.

[Shadow Dancer]

Gandalf's probably town. Only town can be so wrongly overfocussed with such devotion.
The more I think about BS's claim the more I consider it truthful. It's seems unlikely, but things like that actually

can

happen, Chronos and Chronopie are pretty similar names after all. Still suspicious, but not worth a lynch.

[diddin]

@Gemini: Chess is ALWAYS scummy. It's just part of his playstyle. I asked if he had town/scum meta so I could know if there was an easier way to tell his alignment based on his play. I got no response, obviously. So, I voted him because he was being scummier than usual, which, at the time, was good enough reasoning for me.

[chesskid3]

Examples of how i'm scummy or gtfo kthx?

[quadz08]

"Hi, I'm diddin, and I've been tunneling Chess all game even though he's actually been useful and playing decently."

[gandalf5166]

"Hi, I'm diddin, and I've been tunneling Chess all game even though he's actually been useful and playing decently."

Yeah, if SD hadn't claimed scum when he was whining at the mods I'd totes be voting for diddin.

[Shadow Dancer]

Gandald, I never claimed scum. Stop being a jerk and vote diddin if you want. Rendering yourself useless will make scum happy, you know.

[quadz08]

"Hi, I'm diddin, and I've been tunneling Chess all game even though he's actually been useful and playing decently."

Yeah, if SD hadn't claimed scum when he was whining at the mods I'd totes be voting for diddin.

Gandy, I'm pretty sure we went through this once before. SD didn't claim scum.

[gandalf5166]

@Charon: And thanks for really seriously invoke the impression that you put this up because my clain would have faultily confirmed. You know, if some wannabe smartasses lynch me now, that's way too close to a mod error.

No, this is basically a scumclaim.

[quadz08]

No, it's basically complaining about a mod error that appears to confirm him as not town.

[gandalf5166]

No, it's basically complaining about a mod error that appears to confirm him as not town.

Only if he WERE town, he would have noticed that it doesn't, at all.

[chesskid3]

yeah he would have

stop being scum gandalf please?

[gandalf5166]

yeah he would have

stop being scum gandalf please?

NO U

[diddin]

Examples of how i'm scummy or gtfo kthx?

I don't think you're scummy anymore, but I already talked about the rolefishing. The tunneling on Chronopie was pretty bad too.

"Hi, I'm diddin, and I've been tunneling Chess all game even though he's actually been useful and playing decently."

For Christ's sake. I THINK CHESS IS TOWN. My feelings about his playstyle do not affect my read of him at all, especially in a game like this where he is surprisingly readable.

[quadz08]

Examples of how i'm scummy or gtfo kthx?

I don't think you're scummy anymore, but I already talked about the rolefishing. The tunneling on Chronopie was pretty bad too.

"Hi, I'm diddin, and I've been tunneling Chess all game even though he's actually been useful and playing decently."

For Christ's sake. I THINK CHESS IS TOWN. My feelings about his playstyle do not affect my read of him at all, especially in a game like this where he is surprisingly readable.

You hadn't expressed your change in feelings until now. (But you

were

tunneling him. Just fyi.)

[Charon]

Vote Count

Baby Spice [6]

- LordChronos, mothrax, Plum, Gemini, diddin, Axelrod

diddin [4]

- Dekes, AGar, Snow_Bunny, MagnaofIllusion

LordChronos [3]

- Baby Spice, chesskid3, Iecerint

Shadow Dancer [2]

- gandalf5166, quadz08

Plum [1]

- CryMeARiver

Snow_Bunny [1]

- AurorusVox

quadz08 [1]

- Shadow Dancer

Not voting [2]

- RangeroftheNorth, Chronopie

With 20 alive, it is 11 to lynch. Deadline is Tuesday, May 3rd, 2011, 9:00PM PST.

CryMeARiver

is being replaced. Hitting up the awesome replacement list.

AurorusVox is V/LA 4/25.
Baby Spice is V/LA until 4/25.
MagnaofIllusion is V/LA until 4/25.
Dekes is V/LA until 4/25.
Plum is V/LA until 4/27.

This being noted, prods will go out tomorrow evening, to give people a chance to recover after the Easter weekend.

Is this rule confirmation that there is only one mafia faction? If not, would ALL the mafia factions be composed of foreign Gods/Goddesses? Here defining "mafia" as an anti-town faction with more than one member.

1. We're not saying one way or the other.
2. But, all "mafia" groups would consist of non-Greek Gods/Goddesses.

[Gemini]

I agree with Katy that Diddin is a good wagon.

Vote: Diddin

Following up on the Axelrod comments:
I don't like that he has posted quite a bit of explanatory type information. I also don't like the amount of discussion he devotes to set-up spec. It's just filler.

His "scumhunting" also leaves a bit to be desired: for example, in his ISO 13, he states that he is "not following" the Diddin wagon and thinks that Dekes and BS are worse, yet at that point hadn't said anything about either one of those players and doesn't clarify those reads at all. Furthermore, in that same post, he unvotes his RVS vote but doesn't revote either of them, NOR does he actually pressure them in any way. Later, in his list of reads, he calls Diddin scummish, but a few posts before that he said he is "not following" the Diddin wagon, and there is nothing in between this to indicate why he has changed his view. He also votes BS and says it's

partly

because she calls Dekes and Diddin scummy but didn't vote for them, when in his ISO 13, he did the same thing.

It just seems to me that Axel is not actively scumhunting and is being inconsistent in his reads overall, which I think is indicative of scum.

-mjaye

[Gemini]

EBWODP:

UNVOTE: Baby Spice

Vote: Diddin

[chesskid3]

All town wagon on diddin is weird >_>
makes me think either diddin scum or messed up reads ._>

[AGar]

@Gandalf

Stop being a jackass. It would shock me a TON to see an anti-town ShadowDancer at this point, as bad as his posting has been. Stop hypertunneling on one post ffs, and vote Diddin.

@quadz

No remark on how Diddin was either illiterate or intentionally ignored the fact that the post was implying that Iec felt SD could be scum, not what he instead attacked it for (defending)? And half-meta-ing? Move your vote dude, we're not PLing on D1. That's about the most retarded thing a town can do on D1, second only to no-lynching.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Gandalf’s 342

makes me face-palm. Gandalf are you seriously this lost in a game without Fate that this is going to be the result?

Quadz’s 344

is scummy. With several players who are actively being scummy you suddenly are Ok with what you feel is a Town lynch? Really?

Quadz’s 410

is also scummy.

Iecerint’s 382

– so you don’t approve of either Top current wagon (Baby or diddin)?. I’ll go back and look at SA3 to see if you actually pushed BabySpice.

Iecerint’s 387

is pretty scummy. You are using incomplete meta to vote a player? On the heels of Chesskid’s call? Possible distancing noted if LC is scum (which I don't buy)

--

now
movign along to the next order of business
I want LordChronos at L-3 please thanks

Then do a better job of explaining why he’s scum. So far you are failing at it. Asking players to justify not pressuring him as scum when BabySpice and diddin are flying around doesn’t cut it.

--

"Hi, I'm diddin, and I've been tunneling Chess all game even though he's actually been useful and playing decently."

Hmmm … what does this post lack? That’s right .. any stance that diddin is actually scummy for doing so. This is at best stupid mudslinging fluff. Pending knowledge of diddin’s alignment it also has possibilities of soft distancing.

--

No. It is too weak, not worthy enough now, but it is something.

No .. if you don’t think it is strong enough to mention it isn’t anything. Stop wasting our time with this.

--

The following posts illustrate why I will support an SD wagon if there comes sufficent evidence that we face a non-compatible 3rd Party in the game.

@Gemini: I won't discuss any bullshit issue any more. Lynch me or lynch me not based on my claim. Your decision.

@Charon: And thanks for really seriously invoke the impression that you put this up because my clain would have faultily confirmed. You know, if some wannabe smartasses lynch me now, that's way too close to a mod error.

Pre-Mod correction of the rules he leans so heavily on the fact that his claim confirms him and this reaction are suspect. The reaction to the Mod correction is not in proportion to the "damage" done. He is in no danger of being lynched today. AGar's claim confirms that still despite the Mod correct. Add in his reaction to each little vote lately and I don't have any sort of Town read.

All that said -

He’s certainly not the lynch for today since he CAN’T be Mafia.

@SD

– Your play has been craptacular. Stop whining and start scum-hunting if you aren’t some 3rd party role.

--

Umm considering I got off that top wagon to pressure Gemini, it's not just because it's the top wagon. I still consider BS the scummiest player.

I see you completely dodged my questions at 305. Here – I’ll requote them for you so you ABSOLUTELY can’t miss them.

1. Why didn’t you mention said post (Gemini’s post casting suspicion on AV) when describing why you voted AV originally?
2. So you agree with Gemini’s posts regarding AV and suddenly noticed that the hydra hadn’t voted yet which they specifically addressed in several posts was going to happen since they are a hydra? And that is vote-worthy?

To put it bluntly … so what? Lack of content is lack of content. How do you know AV wasn’t catching up? Why is only posting in RVS an excuse?

--

Because no scum in their right mind will waste a kill on somebody that has to be killed by the town sooner or later.

Yeah I see this explanation all the time, more often regarding Millers. It doesn’t hold water. Dayplay > Role. If the Mafia feels a player is a big enough threat to them that they can’t get easily lynched they will NK them. Role or not. I only have to go the Night before MYLO / LYLO. I do a good enough job of hanging / pressuring scum and that deadline gets further and further back.

About the Baby Spice wagon. Basically what chess said. The wagon flew right past diddin's wagon which makes me even more confident in diddin-scum. Luckily people seem to be coming to their senses.

Once again – if BabySpice is scum kill Dekes with fire. I don’t recall seeing any mention of how SD’s wagon went ‘too fast’ (which is HORRIBAD reasoning, BTW).

Why is the BS-wagon still that big?

Why ask obv-questions? She’s been scummy as hell –

1. Jump on to SD for the scummy reason – the whole “Other Mythos” crap that was just used as a RVS springboard and was in NO WAY an alignment tell.
2. Calling a player (diddin) scummy but not voting them and then jumping (incorrectly) on another bandwagon because someone asked them to do so.

--

But you didn’t vote him even though you say he’s making the wagon on him look good? And then a few posts later you choose instead to vote LC for no reason other than Chesskid said so?

Scummy as hell. As is your response 271 where you attempted to justify your bad SD vote based on flavor spec when it has been made clear it can’t possibly be a scum-tell.

What makes it impossible MoI? Would that be Agar's comment on the topic well after my vote?

I quoted the whole thing to demonstrate I didn’t use the word impposible anywhere.

Dodge dodge dodge BabySpice. You don’t directly address the issues.

1. You called diddin scum (since he was making his wagon look good aka valid) and didn’t bother to vote for him. Yet you were more than willing to hop (incorrectly) onto a wagon based on a single Chess post.

But they can make you confuse Chronus with Chronopie when you go to check spelling LC.

Why in the hell would you bother replacing LC with anything when posting to this game? LC is a clear indicated of one player – Lord Chronos. A Vote: LC post is much more unambiguous than what you did, supposedly by accident.

--

1. It's possible various color-groups will be able to determine whether a given color claim is plausible or not. This depends on how color information varies in the Role PMs. It's possible it will do little to help in any given instance, but when someone is run up and pressed to claim I see no general downside to color-claiming as well, even if the information payoff is less likely.

At best this sort of speculation MIGHT be usefull much later in the game when he have more data to use. Day 1 it is pointless mechanic speculation that doesn’t benefit Town.