Mini 1148 -- Spare Me Mafia (Game Over)

[Freewill]

by voting someone who already has a spare, protos makes it so the mafia get to choose at least one person not to get saved.

save someone else.
preferably protoss.

Why would I save someone who did that?

[Nachomamma8]

Do you know what the word preferably means?

[Internet Stranger]

Hell, if we are begging for votes, ill take it. I don't know what apokalyptica is capable of doing.

[Nachomamma8]

We need to have more people saved, not more votes stacking on those already saved.

Otherwise we won't make threshold and a random anti-town will decide who is saved and who dies.

[Freewill]

fine. I was definitely going to vengeful Fate because I think he's scum, but I've been denied that privilege by protoss, who possibly wanted to save his scumbuddy after I hinted I might do it. If Protoss flips scum, Fate ought to be shot/lynched. Time to take a look at who I want to actually survive out of klazam and apok. It definitely won't be protoss.

[Freewill]

meh. both are pretty bad...

Spare: Klazam

[Apokalyptika]

Oh, IS, you don't have to worry about me.

I want to whore myself out for a spare, but Freewill just won't stop being scum.

Also:

Damn it....

I don't see scum saving me at the last minute when they could justify letting me die.


OR IS THAT WHAT YOU WHAT ME TO THINK

YOU TWO FACED BASTARD

I've been confident in Freewill being town since we got into that little argument.

Buuuuut he should die by policy. Because I would rather winning/losing be decided by Fate.

But anyways, I don't really like the idea of Fate being saved by one of the damned. Because if he unspares right before deadline, then Fate's screwed and there's no loss for scum-Freewill.

Is Freewill scum or town, Nacho? Pick a side.

P-Edit: <3

[Freewill]

Ah you can't trust me and I can't trust you not to switch votes at the last second, Apok. Might as well not try.

[Umbrage]

Why the hell would I spare Protoss? He's scum.

Spare: Apok

[Freewill]

so umbrage, you seem to feel i'm town, but maybe i'm wrong. why save apok over me?

[Umbrage]

You're not saved?

Spare: Freewill

[Duplicity]

I go to sleep and wake up to see Freewill and Klazam saved, this needs to be solved as soon as possible. I also don't trust Klazam on CK.

Klazam needs to die, there's no question about it, he's continiously refraining from posting any real content in the thread despite promising to do so a while back. Freewill needs to die as well, attempting to vengful Fate would lead towards mafia having the choice of who to spare, he would have known that at the time of doing so yet continued with the plan. I'd rather let Protoss finish his catch-up but overall I don't have any particular suspicions towards him so I'd rather he be saved. Apok I'm flip-flopping over at the moment - Apok, reads on everyone in your next post please.

[Freewill]

I go to sleep and wake up to see Freewill and Klazam saved, this needs to be solved as soon as possible. I also don't trust Klazam on CK.

Klazam needs to die, there's no question about it, he's continiously refraining from posting any real content in the thread despite promising to do so a while back.

Freewill needs to die as well, attempting to vengful Fate would lead towards mafia having the choice of who to spare

, he would have known that at the time of doing so yet continued with the plan. I'd rather let Protoss finish his catch-up but overall I don't have any particular suspicions towards him so I'd rather he be saved. Apok I'm flip-flopping over at the moment - Apok, reads on everyone in your next post please.

No. It wouldn't. I would have swapped my vote. I was thinking protoss before he revoted fate.

[Duplicity]

No. It wouldn't. I would have swapped my vote. I was thinking protoss before he revoted fate.

You believe swap-saving someone that everyone seems to want dead will be beneficial for the town? You don't think they'd just end up on the block again tommorow or the day after?

If you believe Fate is mafia and want him unspared, make a case attempt to convince people he's mafia, doing anything else won't help whatsoever.

[Freewill]

No. It wouldn't. I would have swapped my vote. I was thinking protoss before he revoted fate.

You believe swap-saving someone that everyone seems to want dead will be beneficial for the town? You don't think they'd just end up on the block again tommorow or the day after?

If you believe Fate is mafia and want him unspared, make a case attempt to convince people he's mafia, doing anything else won't help whatsoever.

Wrong.

[Freewill]

Well now it's right. but it was wrong.

[Apokalyptika]

chesskid3--Hoo boy. There's a lot of stuff going on here. Basically, all my reads on him devolve into a bunch of WIFOM: Would scum really claim vig needing two votes given how conspicuous it is? Is he fake claiming? Is that his real claim? WOuld it be balanced in this game? At the moment, I'm inclined to believe that he's telling the truth, but I end up going back and forth a lot. That being said, he's obviously not dying today.

Fate--Slightly town, although I admit that I'm bad at reading him.

vezok--Null leaning scum. Admittedly I don't really know how to read him, and I generally find him annoying, but there are juicier targets today.

Tony--Posting has been very lacking in content, also:

spare: vezo

I'm gonna start "sparing" my suspects, and I don't like the questioning of his own town cred

Please don't. It's way too confusing. FoS if you must.

Thought it more of a practical thing. Like if deadline/lynchlevel nears, i can move off them to get them lynched. (if i'm the only one on them)

But this would be selfish, and fuck up vote counts, i guess.

spare: Fate

Very scummy post. I'm quite comfortable with him dying today,

IS--Town. He's been aggressive all game, and his role is the most believable and town out of all the claims.

Umbrage--Null leaning scum; there's a lot of shouting, but not that much content going with it.

Freewill--Scum. He should die today.

Nacho--A bit tricky. He's null by himself, but he keeps getting buddy-buddy with scummy people.

Klazam--I don't think he's scum, but I'd be a lot more comfortable if he posted more often. Also, he's had 3 posts so far asking why he's not being spared, which smacks of desperation.

Mask/Protoss--Mask was thoroughly scummy, Protoss has been null so far, but unfortunately replaced into a bad slot. Unless he pulls something spectacular, he should die today.

Fishy--I'm torn here. His roleclaim, or at least the extent of it that he's revealed to us, is scummy. However, I don't find him scummy outside of that. Obviously worth keeping an eye on.

Duplicity--Townish. There's been fairly good analysis and contributions here. I have a little twinge of complaint with their misrepresentation of my meta, but otherwise good stuff.

Also, Freewill, what on earth are you talking about?

[Klazam]

MOD: I'm sorry to be a burden, but please replace me. I am finding that the time I used to have is not available anymore, hampering my ability to meaningfully participate.
For the best of the game, please replace me. Thank you.

Oh, and

unvote

if needed.

Noted.

[Duplicity]

Mod, if Klazam gets replaced is it possible to have a 24 or 48 hour extention?

Klazam, if you are indeed town you should state all your thoughts and reads even if you do it in only a few minutes.

Yes, it's possible per my ruleset, but I'm not going to extend it barring a majority of players asking for it though.

[Klazam]

Sadly, I have not been keeping up with this game at all.

All I know is that I strongly feel that chess is town. That's all I can think of right now.

[Fate]

Why would you unvote?

Just leave it on there and gtfo

[Klazam]

spare chesskid

[Protoss]

So Protoss is CK3's buddy? Probably, yeah.

You're my biggest scumread, and you're calling me someone's buddy without a case whatsoever, when I have been working on the endeavor of proving your guilty.

This just damns you all the more to me, and is the typical scum reaction: "herp derp, no u"

by voting someone who already has a spare, protos makes it so the mafia get to choose at least one person not to get saved.

save someone else.
preferably protoss.

Why would I save someone who did that?

I'm sorry, Freewill, but I was unaware that I should be thinking in terms of what scum would do. I am trying to catch up, and still have ~15 pages to read.

That being said, I am not unsaving Fate, because I am making sure he lives, regardless of what anyone else does. If there is another vote on him, good. It just makes another vote on what I find to be my most solid town read, which means it is unlikely to be on scum. We need to save town, and not save scum, to lynch scum. Do you not understand that?

To be honest, I am not even sure what you mean about scum getting to pick on saves. I read the rules, but I must have missed that aspect. If you explain it to where I understand what you are saying, I would consider it, but I still doubt I would pull my spare off of Fate because I don't want the only spare on him to be from scum and to be pulled off at the last moment.

meh. both are pretty bad...

Spare: Klazam

If not me, and between those two, I feel you made the right choice. I was considering saving Klazam, but I wanted to make damn sure he was town because he hadn't really contributed enough to move past leaning for me and become a strong read.

Why the hell would I spare Protoss? He's scum.

Spare: Apok

This is akin to OMGUS in my book. I list you as the person who needs to die today the most out of what I feel are goons. Fishy, however, is probably your Godfather.

If I'm going down today, I'm taking Fishy with me, or

at the least

proving him to be a liar

Apok, in your #816, you list about 5-6 scum or leaning scum.
HOW MANY SCUM ARE THERE OUT OF 13? LOL

Sad to see Klazam replace out, but hopefully his replacement will post more than he has

I'm going to start reading past page 15

[Protoss]

I don't have flavor, either.

I don't want to white Knight Chesskid, because I hate him more than everyone else here combined, BUT LYNCHING A VIG BECAUSE YOU THINK HELL SHOOT WRONGLY IS FUCKIN STUPID.


Yes he's trolling. But when it MATTERS he's actually going to shoot scum.


Now holy fucking hell let's kill Free Will. HE CAME BACK, IGNORED ALL MY POINTS, AND JUMPED ON THE "CHess is dumb kill chess" WAGON.

THIS IS FUCKIN OBVIOUS

I wouldn't be surprised if he was scum with Umbrage, especially considering recent developments I've seen out of Umbrage in responding to my pressure, and where his save vote just went.

NONONO

CHESSKID3 IS SCUM.

THERE IS NO REASON TO THINK HE IS A VIG.

THERE IS PLENTY OF REASON TO THINK HE IS SCUM.

HOW MANY TOWNIES HAVE TO DIE BEFORE YOU SEE THE FUCKING TRUTH?

NOW TAKE OFF YOUR FREE WILL TUNNEL GOGGLES AND PLAY THIS GAME.

Speak of the devil. Typical scum reaction. "No, you're wrong" There is no evidence/case here, just typical scum-WIFOMspiral

Umbrage, also, in his #380, just quotes Fate a bunch to appear pro-town, when in fact, he is just trying to fake it. He said "I don't need to say anything else", when

he hasn't even said anything at all.

Umbrage and Klazam then go on to argue in thread. I am beginning to feel like they may be scumbuddies trying to distance, or perhaps Scumbrage is fed up that Klazam hasn't been that active. That would explain why he replaced out.

Duplicity gets town points for arguing the way sane town would argue against Umbrage's WIFOM.

1) A) I have an unorthodox view of WIFOM - I believe the word WIFOM is overused and that a large deal of actions that are called or put of as WIFOM are things that you can actually draw from.
2) I can agree that he seems to be impulsive, but what difference does that have to a potential second possibly to prevent the 3 way scenario.
5) I do agree with you here, I believe I stated so earlier - A vig along has no chance at being a realistic counter to mafia-mafia saving. There indeed DOES have to be something else - And from the claims we've had today none of them solve it completely.

1. A) It's WIFOM in the sense that the argument "he said this, therefore he's town" can be dispelled with "but scum would know saying that would make them look town, therefore he's scum".
2. I'm fairly certain he doesn't have a governor ability.

He fakeclaims even when town.

Even in this quote, scumbrage just slipped. "He fakeclaims even when town"

He is fakeclaiming

even when town?

Umbrage's wordchoice is a slip here. Don't even act like implying it lets him off. You know he is scum.

Me? Are you fucking high?

I outed Free Will scum, YOU scum, and Duplicity scum.


I defended chesskid after trolling him and getting plenty of reads.

You realize you're really bad at scum, right?

I agree with two of your reads so far at this point of my reading
not bad
I feel like Klazam or Fishy being scum with Freewill/Umbrage is much more likely than Duplicity.
I don't see Duplicity/Umbrage as a scumteam due to their interactions thusfar.

Fate, you're right about Freewill, and wrong about Umbrage. Umbrage is going after chesskid. chesskid is liable to shoot you in the face if you go after him.

Also, Umbrage clearly means it. This guy's town.

I believe that currently we have:
No Safe Votes (6) (Apokalyptika - Nachomamma8 - Klazam -

FishytheFish

- Duplicity - Freewill)
A pretty good list, actually. I'd like Nacho and Duplicity saved from this list. Nacho isn't in the game, which is better than you can say for the others. Duplicity I thought was scum early, but when I reread my gut says town - something about the hydra disagreements sound real.

@Fate: how do you play differently as scum than town?

LOL SPEAK OF THE DEVIL

UMBRAGE IS SO TOWN BRO

Seriously, I'm sitting here about to let you off of the hook because Klazam, Freewill and scumbrage look to be buddying to me so much, and then WHAM you go and deductively let one of them off the hook, because my hook is definitely a fishhook now, and I'm not ever going to give up on Umbrage being scum in this game.

Fate? Buddying to someone as scum?

Are you sane umbrage?

lol this guy is probably town too
he realized scumbrage is insane
that is good enough for me

So why does Fate and Chesskid get to dictate who lives and dies anyways? First off, I dont trust them.

Second of all, I dont trust Tony. Tony has been way too quiet this game, but has been around. He isnt contributing anything, no opinions, no comments, no attacks, nod efenses. Just nothing. In fact, all that Tony has done is park a spare vote on my #1 suspect and disappear.

If I think Chesskid is scum and he needs two votes to survive, its highly unlikely that he could get two random townies to kneel before him and gobble him just to keep him around. No, one of Chesskid's minions have to be voting for him. Klazam has at least came in and taken some shots at people, but Tony hasnt done shit.

If you want further cooperation from me, if you want me to stop asking for Chesskid's head (at least until tomorrow), add Tony to the death list. I dont care who you take off. Otherwise, all youre doing is cementing yourselves as SCUM for protecting a supposedly inconsequential townie (That is likely to be goomba scum).

I disagree with a lot of this, but I feel this is the "I want to be the guy to catch all the scum" town reaction that people will sometimes get when they are playing a game with someone who is taking over it such as Fate is doing in this situation. IS is probably town.

Just because you say so? I think not. Whatever Fate, youre not Mayor McCheese. If someone agrees with me about Tony, they will do as they please.

There is no wrath of Fate, no wrath of Chesskid. They are just scum, protecting their boy Tony. At this point, im advocating that everyone just do whatever the hell they want and not listen to these scumclowns. Spare whoever the hell you want, dont get manipulated by these scum.

However, if he is going to continue pushing reads like this, I wouldn't mind IS dying.

He is pushing on two of my strong town reads, and lumping in someone I am null on. Disliking this. I am still fairly certain he is town, but even someone who is town can be bad for the town's health.

Damn Stranger, I am continiually amazed by your ability to nail the entire scumteam D1.

Maybe I should bus instead of obvdefend my buddies... ill try that next time I'm scum never bussed before...

I'd respond to this, but there's really nothing to respond to. Just empty sarcasm.

Let me take a moment to state something as clear as possible: The main reason I think you could be scum is because you've been ignoring everything everyone says and pushing your own agenda.

I doubt scum would be as obvious as you and chesskid3, but I don't see any other possibilities.

This is another admission that Fate and Chesskid are town if Umbrage flips scum.

My agenda is to lynch scum, so yeah I tend to ignore what dumbfuck townies have to say, and I usually lynch them because they are a liability.

Yeah, I agree with this. There is a difference in someone following the lead of a town power role, and tunneling to the point where they vote wrong in LYLO like I'm afraid Internet Stranger would do with those crap reads.

Umbrage's #447 is using kidnapping as a ploy. That's not scummy or anything. This guy is obvious.

I just fucking messed up all my posts from 19-21, oh well, onwards!

In Umbrage's #523, he wrote: "FACT: Scum will always kill a confirmed power role over anyone else."
Is that why you're trying to put Chesskid on the chopping block?

Hm...

@ Internet Stranger: Do you know of any way we can learn of your investigation result if you are killed tonight?

WOW, REALLY?
LOL

Hm...

@ Internet Stranger: Do you know of any way we can learn of your investigation result if you are killed tonight?

ROLEFISHING.

Right. Because having a dead cop with no means of data retrieval is a good thing. How in the world did you figure that's what scum would say?

Klazam really has to go.

no no no no no
I agree with Klazam
Scum would want a rolecop, it benefits them tremendously for outting power roles. Even if someone is a VT, well, then they know not to night kill them unless they are breathing down their necks.

duplicity comes in with a wall that shows why some people feel they are scum. It is just one of the hydra heads not keeping up with the game

@Fishy: if you're going to claim that shit, claim it. Otherwise you're anti-town and making our life harder. And I don't like when life is hard.

I'm done claiming. I don't have a vote, I don't die if not spared, and I'd rather not be spared - that's all for now.

Remember this, Tony? Why would he not want to be spared?
Remember when you said "mark of the beast"?
I feel like if he is spared, he will die.

Question for everyone: do you really expect three people to die from today's lynch?

I'd expect two

Look, there's just a tad bit too much Tony on the line here.

There surely are better ways to fill a lynch. Like with the Apok/Vezok/Umbrage trio, for instance.

I like this reaction, and I feel the same way. I don't see why I am not being spared right now. I would much rather see Umbrage on the chopping block, at the threat of a CK3 vig on whoever is sparing him. Vezo/IS/Klazam are all people the town could afford to lose more for either having terrible reads or being dumb and unhelpful.

Oh wait, Dupe's already spared by his scumbuddy. Oh well. KLAZAM, COME ON UP HERE AND CLAIM YOUR PRIZE!!!

Fate, in regards to the above quote, remember when I posted earlier in this post that I agreed with two of your reads? I see no fucking way that both duplicity and umbrage are on the same scumteam.

Umbrage: I do not understand your logic for refusing to allow a vig to live one night to see whether he has a real power or not.

This. Let's kill a town powerrole that can be confirmed. Who would want to do that? HMMM.

Okay, two things.

@Umbrage:
How does CK's role work for scum? Mafia are worried above surviving above everything else. So, making scum need 2 votes to survive means that he will HAVE to claim it D1, no matter what. This means that scumbuddies will have to be VERY careful about saving him, since there's not really a chance Mr. Two-Votes-to-live will survive to LyLo, and RC says "look at the voting records" in one of his first posts, meaning that CK will have to rely mostly on town votes to save him, which probably won't come unless he fakeclaims something awesome (and awesome things are usually counterclaimed). And of all things, he claims vig. Now, as scum, that's a fucktarded fakeclaim. You can only go "herpderp I got blocked" for so long. The only way he would be able to get away with it is if scum get two kills everytime chesskid gets 2 votes, but that's ridiculously overpowered and stupid, considering our town counterbalance in that situation would be a rolecop power for two votes. In other words, chesskidscum means that he's quite literally bus fodder.

@Freewill:
Do you know why we have bankable deadlines? So we can have an incentive for having one lynch days. Do we want everyone to die in a blood-crazed frenzy, or do we want to plan our shit out and be tactical and discuss thoroughly? The choice is ours, just like the world.

I really like the above post. Nacho is giving me a strong town read, way moreso than a lot of people who have quadruple the number of posts. I agree that claiming vig as scum is usually a terrible claim. On D1? No fucking way would anyone intelligent make that claim as scum.

I didn't notice the bankable deadlines. We sure have been using it... :/
I personally preach against drawn out days. I feel like it only helps scum manipulate who lives, and who dies. Seeing myself up for sacrificing nearing the deadline isn't surprising, considering how long this cycle has gone.

If there was no claim, CK turns up dead D1, Unless his scum buddies save him.
If there was no claim, I just dont get to investigate. Unfortunate, but its not DEATH.

If there was no claim, CK dies. If scumbuddies try to put 2 saves on someone, people are going to ask why. So, again, CK scum would have to draw all that attention Day 1.

But the fact that CK needs a vote to SURVIVE throws everything off. Why dont I need a vote to live, but he does? I claimed as an example that im about as town as it gets and I dont need a vote to survive, but somehow CK is more townie than me and needs that vote? If those are restrictions for a town, then what could possibly be a restriction for scum? Nothing? They already have an inherent advantage from the setup (assuming they can just save each other), needing two votes is an awesome equalizer FOR THE SCUM.

What balances out Chesskid? Fishy.
Fishy is pretty much an innocent child at this point because his role is too damn broken for him to be scum. Hell, he doesn't NEED a save vote to live, he just goes on surviving. If he was scum, we would be absolutely screwed because the only way we could kill him is by vigging him, and that's just stupid considering the setup is scum-leaning.

Why do you have an optional vote for power? To give town more power over the choosing aspect.
If we are more bloodthirsty, we have more votes to spare.
Thus, we're able to keep chessvig in the game (moar bloodlust), and you can investigate people (more power).
If we want to be more careful, we don't get to keep chessvig, and you don't get to investigate.
Plus, don't you see how you, chesskid, and fishy balance one another out?

Chess - Needs 2 votes to live.
You - Could use 2 votes for bonuses, only need one.
Fishy - Doesn't need any votes to live.


Anyways, I like my Kool-Aid.

I disagree with you here, Nacho. Fishy could easily not be telling us what's up, and in fact, he has said as much. In his iso #9 he says he is "done claiming for now", and then the point is furthered in his iso #11 where he says "I have no intention of fullclaiming, I will just hurt the town".

Isn't him claiming what he has claimed fishy enough? The fact he isn't adding to that, and isn't being pressured, is mind-boggling to me. Noone is gunning for him "because he can't die" by not being spared. Big deal. We have a vig for a fucking reason.

Chesskid

: please vig Fishy. Trust me on this one. His role is the scum-balance of yours. If you are an angel, he is a demon. If you are the yin, he is the yang. You require one more vote, he requires one less.

[Umbrage]

Blah blah blah. I don't care. You're saving confirmed scum. That's enough for me.