Newbie 1082: No Country for Old Mafia - Game Over!

Thor665 · Post Post #375 (ISO) » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:05 am

Dumby-dumby-dee, now onto Day 3...

So, Wingy ding is claiming doc? He protected one of the other guys I have a strong scum read on and called him obv. town worth double protection? Blargh.

For Wing-a-ling-a-ding-dong not to be the Doc scum decided to no kill and to risk that they'd be handing a cop an extra investigation. If scum did that they are brilliant idiots...I rarely get to play with brilliant idiots...

Okay, Wingsy and Misder are obv. town.
Hi crazy!

zMuffinMan wrote:@crazypianist,

Wow I can't believe you made that post zmuffin. So much WIFOM. Regardless, if you can show me a game where scum don't choose to nightkill in a newbie game I might somewhat believe you, but you just earned major scum points.
I don't see any WIFOM in my post, I am talking about possibilities that you're ignoring, I'm not saying any of that actually happened.

I'm including this just because it's a beautiful example of something I already noted. In this example MuffinMan is absolutely correct, he's not using WIFOM, he's just examining the night actions. Crazy is trying to inject WIFOM into it, but is basically using the tell totally incorrectly.

crazypianist1116 wrote:If you actually believed your points, you'd be voting no lynch right now.

crazypianist1116 wrote:If you do not believe the claims are true, then you should be voting for no lynch as we can get more information from that since we're only in MyLo.

It's almost as if he wants something...

Needless to say (but I will anyway, because I like flattery) - Zorblag is spouting brilliance.

crazypianist1116 wrote:I just don't see why he wouldn't be pushing for a no lynch if he doesn't believe the claim.

Yeah, definitely something is being said here.

I am definitely just starting to skim these posts, you guys are wall machines.

[L] wrote:You used the past tense: "believed". What has changed your mind?

I also felt Misder's towniness, hence why I unvoted him after he presented all his notes on everyone on day 1. :/ I feel that your claim is legit... But it will suck big time if you're really scum.

Unvote

Vote: Zorblag

How come no giant wall post for this vote?

zMuffinMan wrote:I'm looking at how Wing and Misder are reacting to the Thor wagon that's been created, and I will be looking closely at how you react to it when you've finally read up on today.

I'm still where I was Day 1 - It's shamefail that it exists. Let's look at their logic for the wagon...oh wait...
But seriously, the entire case is summed up as follows;

1. We didn't agree with how Romanus played the game.
2. Zorblag, who is the IC, one of the agreed upon better players on the site, and has more experience than all of us combined, "took control" of the game when he replaced in.

Yeah...those are some brutal and obvious scumtells right there.

I'm interested in your analysis on crazy and L. The Wing->L vote and the reasons behind it also interest me, and Wing hasn't been answering the question that Misder has asked I think three times now.

1. I find crazy the worst of the pair. I'm debating whether L or you make more sense as a buddy.
2. The vote doesn't particularly interest me. Why should it?
3. Well...to be honest it is a slightly silly question, but I'll agree that I'd still like to see Wingy take a crack at it.

Do you play aggressive at MyLo, Thor?

I keep being told I do. I personally think I play more aggressive than most, but submit it's because most people lose track of their grapefruits at lylo and sort of shuffle around wanting to be 'not wrong' rather than 'right' which is total fail for town players.

What is your opinion on the day two hammer followed by the lack of night kill followed by Wing's doctor claim? I assume you will get to this when you've fully caught up, but this is one thing I'm particularly interested in you answering.

Already covered methinks.

Thor665 · Post Post #376 (ISO) » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:30 am

Color code is simple;

Green = known town
Blue = Doc and claimed protect who, for the sake of sanity I'm calling town at this stage. It annoys me how much Misder never voted.
Purple = me - normally I would just put myself into green and to heck with everyone else, but for the sake of the newbies who want to use this chart for themselves I left myself slightly an odd color so it's easier.

Fenchurch wrote:
Second Vote Count of Day One:

WingDamage9001
- 2 ([L],
Prosaurus
)

McGriddle
- 2 (
WingDamage9001
,
cjdrum
)

Misder
- 1 (crazypianist1116)

cjdrum - 1 (McGriddle
)

Romanus
- 1 (zMuffinMan)
zMuffinMan - 1 (
Romanus
)

Not Voting: 1 (Misder)

Fenchurch wrote:
Third Vote Count of Day One:

McGriddle
- 2 (
WingDamage9001
,
cjdrum
)

Misder
- 2 (crazypianist1116, [L])

WingDamage9001
- 1 (
Prosaurus
)

cjdrum - 1 (McGriddle)

Romanus
- 1 (zMuffinMan)
zMuffinMan - 1 (
Romanus
)

Not Voting: 1 (Misder)

These first two I'm including just so I can consider the crazy/L connection. Note that McGriddle is pure town and yet L hops in behind crazy on Misder (town). It's RVS so insanity is somewhat overlooked but it does seem to weaken the likelihood of an L/crazy pairing to my mind.

Fenchurch wrote:
Fifth Vote Count of Day One:

Romanus
- 3 (zMuffinMan,
WingDamage9001
,
cjdrum
)

Misder
- 2 (crazypianist1116, [L])

cjdrum
- 2 (
McGriddle
,
Romanus
)

Not Voting: 2 (
Misder
,
Prosaurus
)

There sits Muffin pressing on a big wagon, likely buddies are not on said wagon with him.

NOTE TO SELF

- Need to go back and look at crazy and L and see if either one was gearing up for a shift onto ROmanus at this stage.

Fenchurch wrote:
Final Vote Count of Day One:

cjdrum
- 5 (
McGriddle
,
Romanus
, crazypianist1116,
WingDamage9001
,
Prosaurus
) [this was lynch]

Romanus
- 3 (zMuffinMan,
cjdrum
,
Misder
)

Misder
- 1 ([L])

Here's the hammer day 1. Wingy fled the Romanus wagon and Misder crawled onto Romanus. L is functionally abstaining from voting, crazy is a high suspect because the chances of the wagon Day 1 having zero scum on it? Almost never happens. This is, at its heart and core, the crazy case (see how I did that in one sentence without having to try to justify how every post he's ever made is scummy? Exciting.

Fenchurch wrote:
Final Vote Count of Day Two:

Prosaurus
- 3 (crazypianist1116, zMuffinMan, [L],
WingDamage9001
) [Lynch 2]

Romanus
- 1 (
Prosaurus
)

Not Voting: 2 (
Misder
,
Romanus
)

Lynch Day 2 - crazy is at it again, and Muffin is right there with him. Looks a little less suspect for them being the pair because of the obvious bro-hug of scummishness that would be. L makes more sense because he waited for someone else to get on the wagon before he did.

Misder continues to fail at life...why did Wingy-ding-a-ling have a town read on that guy? Ugh, they'd work so nicely as a scum pair except they'd need cantaloupes the size of casaba melons to pull off their current setup.

Fenchurch · Post Post #377 (ISO) » Wed Apr 13, 2011 10:50 am

Eighth Vote Count of Day Three:

Thor665 - 2 (crazypianist1116, [L])

[L] - 1 (WingDamage9001)

Not Voting: 3 (Misder, zMuffinMan, Thor665)

With six alive, it will take four votes to lynch someone.

Deadline is: Monday, 25th April at 8:50 am GMT.

crazypianist1116 has been prodded.

Thor665 · Post Post #378 (ISO) » Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:15 am

I approve of this prod - and I'm pretty sure everyone has at least one question or accusation leveled at them from me that they could be responding to.

If you're town you should do it because town loses games when town stops talking.

If you're scum you should do it because scum lose games when too many towns are the ones talking. Besides, you might help fool me into believing you're town, so that's a win.

Thor665 · Post Post #379 (ISO) » Wed Apr 13, 2011 4:45 pm

If nobody responds to questions or issues already asked by tomorrow I'll go ahead and restate them in easy to understand bulleted question form.

I'm quite capable of filling up a page all by myself, but it's not really helpful to town for me to do so.

zMuffinMan · Post Post #380 (ISO) » Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:59 pm

I don't see anything directed at me, just references to me. Can you point specifically at where you're questioning me or raising an issue with me or something I've said?

We didn't agree with how Romanus played the game.

Are you suggesting that this is an invalid reason for thinking Romanus is scummy?

If you were to vote for someone right now, who would you vote and for what reasons?

Also, just a general question for you: Do you think talking a lot makes you seem less scummy?

Thor665 · Post Post #381 (ISO) » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:11 pm

zMuffinMan wrote:I don't see anything directed at me, just references to me. Can you point specifically at where you're questioning me or raising an issue with me or something I've said?

How do you feel about me calling you and crazy the most likely scumpair?

zMuffinMan wrote:
We didn't agree with how Romanus played the game.
Are you suggesting that this is an invalid reason for thinking Romanus is scummy?

...yes, in giant glowing letters ten feet tall I'm suggesting this. In fact I'm darn near sneering it because it's so silly.

There is such a vast gulf between "your playstyle is one I don't agree with" and "you are playing in a way that is scummy" that they don't even know the other exists - because usually players only seem to be able to spot one or the other at any given time. There was a lot of time spent outlining such brilliantly clear scumtells as "he didn't define RVS" or "he seems to support bandwagons, but admits in newbies they scare him" without once explaining how any of that helped Romanus win if he was scum.

But, really, I'm sort of stupid and silly in equal measure - would you care to clarify why this is actually a good set of scumtells and how I'm misunderstanding it?

zMuffinMan wrote:If you were to vote for someone right now, who would you vote and for what reasons?

You or crazy as previously indicated in both this post and my VCA post and, probably my last wall post. Points were outlined in the previous posts and I'll make you go back and dig for those reasons because I like being difficult while claiming it's part of my charm (the charm is actually my beard, but people often don't realize that).

zMuffinMan wrote:Also, just a general question for you: Do you think talking a lot makes you seem less scummy?

Me personally or players in general?

I think talking a lot helps town and not talking much at all hurts town.
Whether or not my personal word spew makes me look town is a matter for the rest of you to decide, I know I'm town so I know I'm spouting brilliance and it's just a question if the rest of you notice it.
I'll claim to believe any of the rest of you who start talking more will convince me you're town, but it's really just a trick to get you talking so I can better narrow down which of you is scum.

Thor665 · Post Post #382 (ISO) » Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:13 pm

@Muffinman - one more, what info did you hope to gain by asking me how "aggressive" I play in Mylo? Now that I've answered I want the logic of the question explained.

zMuffinMan · Post Post #383 (ISO) » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:16 pm

How do you feel about me calling you and crazy the most likely scumpair?

Did you say that? Last I read, you said you thought it was likely crazypianist and L were scum together. It's hard to tell, since you didn't actually say what you think, you just put forward possibilities.

If you're saying it now, then my answer is that it doesn't make me feel anything. I think you're saying it to deflect attention from yourself, and because you're trying to intimidate me.

There is such a vast gulf between "your playstyle is one I don't agree with" and "you are playing in a way that is scummy" that they don't even know the other exists - because usually players only seem to be able to spot one or the other at any given time. There was a lot of time spent outlining such brilliantly clear scumtells as "he didn't define RVS" or "he seems to support bandwagons, but admits in newbies they scare him" without once explaining how any of that helped Romanus win if he was scum.

But, really, I'm sort of stupid and silly in equal measure - would you care to clarify why this is actually a good set of scumtells and how I'm misunderstanding it?

My interpretation of not agreeing with a play style is that someone is playing in a scummy way or, more specifically, playing in a way that doesn't benefit town. Romanus was inconsistent, and nothing he said really benefited town. Do you disagree with this?

You or crazy as previously indicated in both this post and my VCA post and, probably my last wall post. Points were outlined in the previous posts and I'll make you go back and dig for those reasons because I like being difficult while claiming it's part of my charm (the charm is actually my beard, but people often don't realize that).

Consider me too stupid to find these "scum tells" you have on me. Please restate them. Or is it purely to do with your vote count analysis?

Me personally or players in general?

I was referring to you personally, but it doesn't matter, you answered anyway. I was only interested because it seems you think that posting a lot of content = town points and you seem to be posting a lot of content right now.

what info did you hope to gain by asking me how "aggressive" I play in Mylo?

I was interested in why you were asking about my (lack of) aggression today as opposed to previous days.

crazypianist1116 · Post Post #384 (ISO) » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:39 pm

Sup, Thor?

Thor665 wrote:
Fenchurch wrote:
Final Vote Count of Day One:

cjdrum
- 5 (
McGriddle
,
Romanus
, crazypianist1116,
WingDamage9001
,
Prosaurus
) [this was lynch]

Romanus
- 3 (zMuffinMan,
cjdrum
,
Misder
)

Misder
- 1 ([L])
Here's the hammer day 1. Wingy fled the Romanus wagon and Misder crawled onto Romanus. L is functionally abstaining from voting, crazy is a high suspect because the chances of the wagon Day 1 having zero scum on it? Almost never happens. This is, at its heart and core, the crazy case (see how I did that in one sentence without having to try to justify how every post he's ever made is scummy? Exciting.

Oh hey look, your slot was on that lynch as well and isn't green/blue!

You seem to be criticizing me a whole lot for being scum as for who I voted, not why I voted. I get a bit of it here:

Thor665 wrote:crazy has some interesting shifts in vote position around the cjdrum lynch, I'm wanting to see if it's him or Prosaurus who ends up hammering.

It'd be nice if you could explain this more; I don't really get what your saying at all.

Followed up by this:

Thor665 wrote:crazy leaping on Pro is internally consistent.

So I'm not contradicting myself. That's great.

Thor665 wrote:1. We didn't agree with how Romanus played the game.
2. Zorblag, who is the IC, one of the agreed upon better players on the site, and has more experience than all of us combined, "took control" of the game when he replaced in.

My case for Zorblag did not include 1 at all. As for 2, you know appeal to authority is always great, right? You can go back and read my case for Zorblag. The only way he "took control" was by asking for a massclaim, which meta supports he would have done if he was scum or town. Then he spouts tons of theory as well as unsupported reads.

I find it interesting that you think I'm advocating a no lynch.

Thor would have voted me if he was so sure of his scum read on me but he's waiting for town to flipflop with their votes so that he and his partner can go for the quicklynch. His general cockiness before having read the whole thread is awfully disconcerting as well.

I know there are other questions that need to be answered but this case needed to be attended to. Thor's spewing shit. More votes please.

Sorry for getting prodded, I probably got about 3 prods in the past 24 hours as a result of me sleeping through practically the entire day.

Thor665 · Post Post #385 (ISO) » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:06 am

zMuffinMan wrote:Did you say that? Last I read, you said you thought it was likely crazypianist and L were scum together. It's hard to tell, since you didn't actually say what you think, you just put forward possibilities.

Well, I did specifically call one player Doc (whic, is town) accepted his protection was a kill block, point out the three potential scum, explain how I had trouble seeing a L/crazy pairing, and also pointed out how sensible a crazy/Muffin pairing was. But, maybe it was all hidden amongst my giant wall.

zMuffinMan wrote:If you're saying it now, then my answer is that it doesn't make me feel anything. I think you're saying it to deflect attention from yourself, and because you're trying to intimidate me.

That's interesting. What attention? Up until Crazy's new attack on me just now there hasn't been any attention to deflect, there's just been two votes vaguely sitting on me. Also, as even you've sort of noticed, my playstyle actually invites attention, so I sort of doubt I'm about deflecting it. (maybe deflecting suspicion, but that's actually a null tell reaction to things, natch) Also, why do you think I'm trying to "intimidate" you? (Oooh, and is it working?

)

zMuffinMan wrote:My interpretation of not agreeing with a play style is that someone is playing in a scummy way or, more specifically, playing in a way that doesn't benefit town.

Anti-town is (sadly) not the same as scummy.
At all.

zMuffinMan wrote:Romanus was inconsistent, and nothing he said really benefited town. Do you disagree with this?

Yes, very much so. I actually think he did a pretty decent job with a fair amount of his commentary. Where he face-flop-failed was by flaking out and not being around. The rest of the wagon build up on him is all about newbie nervousness and/or scum seeing somebody who was playing "different" so they could push suspicion on him.

zMuffinMan wrote:Consider me too stupid to find these "scum tells" you have on me. Please restate them. Or is it purely to do with your vote count analysis?

Purely VCA (which is a tell).

zMuffinMan wrote:I was only interested because it seems you think that posting a lot of content = town points and you seem to be posting a lot of content right now.

Well, I'm not likely to be doing things I think are scummy no matter which alignment I am, am I? Thanks for noticing how much content I'm generating though. If you're town you might want to give it a swirl.

How do you feel about some of crazy's fears and accusations on me? I'll be addressing them in my next post but after that I'd love to see your reactions to them as well.

Thor665 · Post Post #386 (ISO) » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:20 am

crazypianist1116 wrote:Sup, Thor?

Hiya crazy, things go well. Glad to see you're still plugging away at the game.

crazypianist1116 wrote:Oh hey look, your slot was on that lynch as well and isn't green/blue!

That is true, though unlike you I'm not also on the next one. Also, if you think I'm scum which of Muffin/L is my buddy and why?

crazypianist1116 wrote:You seem to be criticizing me a whole lot for being scum as for who I voted, not why I voted. I get a bit of it here:
Thor665 wrote:crazy has some interesting shifts in vote position around the cjdrum lynch, I'm wanting to see if it's him or Prosaurus who ends up hammering.
It'd be nice if you could explain this more; I don't really get what your saying at all.

The way you were voting looked potentially strategic as opposed to simply suspicions. It looked more like you were trying to set up a lynch rather than a lynch of someone you suspected.

crazypianist1116 wrote:Followed up by this:
Thor665 wrote:crazy leaping on Pro is internally consistent.
So I'm not contradicting myself. That's great.

It is great. Shockingly enough, not all tells are scumtells (though you'd never tell it from the pbpa everyone in this game insists on posting). No, you do have some townish play and I wanted to note for myself when it happened.

crazypianist1116 wrote:My case for Zorblag did not include 1 at all. As for 2, you know appeal to authority is always great, right? You can go back and read my case for Zorblag. The only way he "took control" was by asking for a massclaim, which meta supports he would have done if he was scum or town. Then he spouts tons of theory as well as unsupported reads.

Okay, so let's break this down;

1. Zorblag asked for a claim you agree meta wise he'd do either as scum or town (null tell)
2. He talked about theory (null tell unless he was only doing this, and he wasn't only doing this)
3. He made unsupported reads...(well, this proves 2 isn't a scumtell)

Well, there you go, the only one that is actually a scumtell is 3. Let's examine it; I actually consider all of his reads...SUPPORTED. Could you please prove me wrong and go quote the read(s) he had that were unsupported?

crazypianist1116 wrote:I find it interesting that you think I'm advocating a no lynch.

I find it interesting that when all that was needed was one more person voting no lynch and you could have 'hammered' no lynch that you repeatedly were pressuring one player about how his logic suggested he should be voting no lynch. That could be crazyscum trying to get the no lynch to allow removal of the doc from the game state.
Why do you find it "interesting" that I believe you're advocating no lynch?

crazypianist1116 wrote:Thor would have voted me if he was so sure of his scum read on me but he's waiting for town to flipflop with their votes so that he and his partner can go for the quicklynch. His general cockiness before having read the whole thread is awfully disconcerting as well.

"Thor doesn't 100% know who scum is - Thor must be scum." - crazypianist1116 showcasing yet another non-scumtell tell.

Yes, that makes perfect sense. Maybe we should notice that right when Thor replaced in he commented that 15 pages was too little for his reads and he intended to pressure people into talking to help those reads? Nah, let's just randomly accuse him of something as guilty as "not voting fast enough" and try to pressure through a lynch. Excelsior! Also, "cockiness" is a scumtell now? Yeah, because anyone who is confident and not shaking in their booties must be scum? How does that even remotely make sense?

crazypianist1116 wrote:I know there are other questions that need to be answered but this case needed to be attended to. Thor's spewing Smurf. More votes please.

"I know there are questions town should ask itself, but if we can lynch Thor hopefully they won't" Amirite?

Thor665 · Post Post #387 (ISO) » Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:25 am

tl:dr

(these are the highlights of the above.

@Muffin - what's your read on crazy's attack on me? Also, you are scummy because of your position on some wagons, VCA is a device to generate scumtells, and anti-town is not the same as scummy.

@crazypianist - nice freak out. Your desperate 'Thor is scum because he seems to want more discussion and isn't voting right away' looks questionable as all get out and i want you to justify it. Also, I'll want to see Muffin's thoughts on this maneuver of yours and asked him to provide it. Also, your case on Zorblag is "LOL" please justify it.

-L- · Post Post #388 (ISO) » Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:28 am

Still reading, but I feel like an awwkward schoolgirl in the presence of Edward the vampire. Based on key things he said and his diction, I'm apt to believe he's a townie. I'm really feeling appreciative of Thor's presence, excited the thread isn't dead! Woohoo!

Thanks for coming to our rescue

-L- · Post Post #389 (ISO) » Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:03 am

I'm pretty upset that Thor looks so townie. I'm vacillating on my theories on him being paired with Wing.

@Thor: what do you think about the points I presented in my case against wing and zorblag(you)? I know zorblag answered me but it was not at all satisfactory.

I'll repost if necessary.

On day one, I suspected Misder because of a scummy slip that only an informed party would make. I play like a pitbull - I grab throats and never let go until satisfied. It wasn't an unwillingness to vote otherwise - I wanted others to vote with me. But when I saw all of his analyses, I saw that he was putting effort into finding scum, and unvoted. It was post lynch though. Why did you consider his analyses otherwise? Why not read them?

Regarding crazy, I've been convinced more of his towniness - even though it's based on my theory of you and wing. What specifically irks you about him? I've seen him asking real questions of people, as opposed to the fluffy questions asked by others.

@Misder: can you explain your lack of scum hunting since day 1? Most of your posts since then have been of the flavor "just catching up, more later".

@thor: To answer your question [joke?] about my lack of a wall-o-text; I was posting from my phone. Phear the phone!!

-L- · Post Post #390 (ISO) » Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:05 am

Oh yeah, my pronoun is "she". Not looking for special treatment, just correctness.

Thor665 · Post Post #391 (ISO) » Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:58 am

@L - I'm pretty sure I don't sprakle, but let's see if I can't shine some light on your thoughts here (and I'll work on the pronoun thing, I just default to the uncertain 'he' unless the avatar/name particularly screams girl to me...to the annoyance of some guys with female avatars);

[L] wrote:@Thor: what do you think about the points I presented in my case against wing and zorblag(you)? I know zorblag answered me but it was not at all satisfactory.

The best I see of your "case" is the following;

[L] wrote:@zorblag: I believe his [wing's] partner is you. I stated this twice before. And if that's not right, then it's you and muffinman. Granted the claim is somewhat believable - but only if we were to believe the scum definitely did try to kill. I see the possibility of a gambit too large to ignore, and a doctor claim too plausible in that situation. So tell me how nolynch fits? If we have scum, shouldn't we be lynching them?

Prior to the massclaim scum knew two pieces of information.

1. Whether they tried to kill or not.
2. Whether they had a roleblocker or not.

If they had a roleblocker than they knew the setup was either no power roles or both power roles.
If they didn't than they knew it was either cop *or* doc.

For your theory to work the scum would have had to make the following ballsy decisions.

1. Decide to no kill when there was a 50/50 of there being a cop or a doc in the setup. A no kill would give the cop a second investigation for free, and potentially lead any doc to presume the person he protected was town, which is sort of like having a cop investigate (as the only way this would help scum would be if the doc protected scum)

2. They (Wing) decided to claim doc first, with a 50% chance of having a counter claim so that town would literally have a 50/50 to kill the scummy doc.

3. They gave up a chance to kill a town member who was dangerous to them.

*OR*

They could just try to kill someone.

The first plan exposes them to three different risks and allows them to win with town making one mislynch.
The second plan exposes them to less risk and allows them to win with town making one mislynch and they could still claim Doc if they wanted to.

Occam's Razor tends to suggest that scum chose the second plan unless scum are either stupid or *super* ballsy. You are basically making a case predicated on scum doing something that doesn't help them much - was Wing going to be lynch today? Meh. Was I going to be lynch today? Decent chance. Who do scum opt to clear, Misder the lurker and Wing the scum? Really?

[L] wrote:Why did you consider [Misder's] analyses otherwise? Why not read them?

Because PBPA (post by post analysis) is a joke.
I've been playing in a lot of Mafia games for the past few years (easily 50+ I would guess) and I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen a scum so scummy that every third or fourth post by him had a scumtell in it. The real scumtells are small and you point them out once in a blue moon and feel good for yourself.

Consequently when I see any list like this;

Post 1 - Distancing.
Post 2 - Vote obvious scumbuddy
Post 3 - avoiding question.
Post 5 - weak case on Player X (who flipped cop)

I pretty much roll my eyes and sigh. It's not worth reading at all. I looked at his conclusions (scum, null, town) found them okay, but pretty weak and vapid, and moved on while saving myself 30 minutes of reading time. Huzzah for me. A real case for someone being town/scum *can* be made in 2 sentences or less. You can expand it if people ask, but you should keep it short and sweet so people can read it and track you easier.

[L] wrote:Regarding crazy, I've been convinced more of his towniness - even though it's based on my theory of you and wing. What specifically irks you about him? I've seen him asking real questions of people, as opposed to the fluffy questions asked by others.

Vote count analysis and how he totally flipped out as soon as I suggested he was scummy even though he appears to buy into Wing/Misder as town.

[L] wrote:@thor: To answer your question [joke?] about my lack of a wall-o-text; I was posting from my phone. Phear the phone!!

Do you have a larger case, or did you feel "partners with fake-claim scum Doc" was proof enough?
Also, why am I the lynch pin with Muffin or Wing, why is the scum team not Wing/Muffin?

-L- · Post Post #392 (ISO) » Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:38 pm

I am pretty set on the idea that there were fakeclaims. It's obvious since the scum obviously lied. No one else suggested what I suggested, and because I find those who suggested other things scummy - I'm trying to think out of the box.

And I don't think you read far enough back - I presented my suspicions more in depth prior to that post. Still on my phone but I will repost them tonight from my comp. Wing/Muffin are the most likely scum team. I unvoted muffin because of the crazy/muffin backtalk - despite his scummy tells I figure they're both town while the more experienced players are sitting back, laughing. I unvoted wing because of post 353, where he made his doc claim believable by stating misder's towniness, which I agreed with. That left you, the last scumspect.

-L- · Post Post #393 (ISO) » Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:41 pm

Unvote

Thor665 · Post Post #394 (ISO) » Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:32 pm

[L] wrote:I am pretty set on the idea that there were fakeclaims. It's obvious since the scum obviously lied. No one else suggested what I suggested, and because I find those who suggested other things scummy - I'm trying to think out of the box.

Obviously the scum lied, they always do when claiming.

I'm fine with you thinking outside the box, but you need to be able to justify why it's *more* likely to be your logic than the logic I presented. Scum decided to do the riskier action that didn't help them win the game any better? Eh...okay, why did they do it that way instead of the less risky action that helps them win the game at the same speed? Until you can answer that your theory is more likely to be fear of theoretical scum actions than analysis of actual information we have.

Also, I'll be happy to respond to the bigger case once you dig it out.

Finally - a question; You were voting me because you'd ruled out Misder, Wing, crazy, and Muffin as scumspects? Then who did you think was my partner?

zMuffinMan · Post Post #395 (ISO) » Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:32 pm

Well, I did specifically call one player Doc (whic, is town) accepted his protection was a kill block, point out the three potential scum, explain how I had trouble seeing a L/crazy pairing, and also pointed out how sensible a crazy/Muffin pairing was. But, maybe it was all hidden amongst my giant wall.

Purely VCA (which is a tell).

er....

I see two references to me in your vote count analysis. One is where you mention I'm sitting on the Romanus wagon day one and two is where you mention that it's not likely crazypianist and I are scum together due to some supposed brohugginess.

I'm also beginning to wonder whether you're using vote count analysis as your primary tool for accusing people because Romanus was inactive for the entirety of day 2.

That's interesting. What attention? Up until Crazy's new attack on me just now there hasn't been any attention to deflect, there's just been two votes vaguely sitting on me. Also, as even you've sort of noticed, my playstyle actually invites attention, so I sort of doubt I'm about deflecting it. (maybe deflecting suspicion, but that's actually a null tell reaction to things, natch) Also, why do you think I'm trying to "intimidate" you?

Don't kid yourself, you've already acknowledged that you were a likely lynch today. Whether or not it is a null tell, I think you're deflecting suspicion without any strong reason. You're right that attention wasn't the word I was looking for. Intimidation was probably also not the word I was looking for - I think you're attacking me so that I'm more likely to defend myself than attack you. This is tied in with you attempting to deflect suspicion.

Anti-town is (sadly) not the same as scummy.
At all.

What? How exactly is anti-town not scummy? Anything that is anti-town is, by definition, scummy.

Yes, very much so. I actually think he did a pretty decent job with a fair amount of his commentary. Where he face-flop-failed was by flaking out and not being around. The rest of the wagon build up on him is all about newbie nervousness and/or scum seeing somebody who was playing "different" so they could push suspicion on him.

I disagree, none of his play benefited town in any way. He advocated bandwagoning then became wishy-washy because he suddenly realised it's a newbie game, he made no solid case on any of the people he voted, he refused to give explanations for his actions, and you've already acknowledged you found his first vote scummy. What parts of his play were not scummy?

Well, I'm not likely to be doing things I think are scummy no matter which alignment I am, am I?

True, but the question is whether you're trying to establish yourself as town in people's eyes for no good reason (i.e. just because you're posting a lot of content).

what's your read on crazy's attack on me?

I don't think Zorblag's reads were unsupported (regardless of alignment, he wouldn't make them if he didn't feel they were somewhat supported), but I do think they weren't strongly supported.

I think your attempt to accuse him of trying to advocate a no lynch through me is very weak. At no point did it require only one vote for no lynch to go through, and he was still doing it after he unvoted. How could it be "hammered" with 3 votes? This is an example of you trying to deflect suspicion weakly.

I have a different interpretation of your posts so far, but I can see where he's coming from with this.

Or, if you were asking or my "read" in terms of whether I thought he was scum or town because of this, it would be null.

Fenchurch · Post Post #396 (ISO) » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:28 pm

Ninth Vote Count of Day Three:

Thor665 - 1 (crazypianist1116)
[L] - 1 (WingDamage9001)

Not Voting: 4 (Misder, zMuffinMan, Thor665, [L])

With six alive, it will take four votes to lynch someone.

Deadline is: Monday, 25th April at 8:50 am GMT.

WingDamage9001 and Misder have been prodded.

-L- · Post Post #397 (ISO) » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:50 pm

Here I am asking why you were lurking so hard:

[L] wrote:
[L] wrote:
zMuffinMan wrote: I was defending the point strongly because it tied in with one of the reasons I'm suspicious of crazypianist today. crazypianist posted without even looking at possible alternatives. I don't like that. Even if they aren't as likely, they're still possible.

And yes, this particular part of my argument is similar to one particular part of my argument against Prosaurus. That is very perceptive of you, Zorblag.
Defending at this point is not what a townie would be concerned with doing. It is almost as if he is deflecting to crazy.

And when he says "How perceptive of you, Zorblag", that sent chills down my spine. Intuition says he fails.

I was attacking your defensiveness.

zMuffinMan wrote: Ironically, you're now voting Wing, who could only possibly be mafia if he is part of a roleblocker/goon combination and they chose not to submit a night kill last night by gambling on the setup.

Why don't you believe Wing's claim?
Ironically? Really? What's ironic about it? And the setup you mention has never occurred to me - and also makes no sense. Why is a roleblocker absolutely necessary? What I think has happened is that an experienced mafia player is playing a gambit - no idea what their actual mafia role is. I believe it's to teach us newbs what to do in a situation like this. Wing's claim is plausible - unless you take into account the scumtells pouring off of him. Scumtell 1: He doesn't hunt. Scumtell 2: He doesn't help us. Scumtell 3: He hammered Pro [although I was happy that day because I thought we got scum] with little explanation except to say he didn't want to "barnacle". Scumtell 4: He hasn't participated even though I called him out. That's lurking. >:( And the fact that
Zorblag/Romanus has been quiet as well, and everyone [except me ] has suspected him from the beginning, makes me believe more in the gambit idea.

If I were to throw away the idea of the gambit, then I could believe Wing's claim, and chalk his behavior up to a hiding doctor. But I'd rather follow my gut.

Who are your suspects Muffinman? Who do you suspect most?

@crazy: Do you believe Zorblag is scum?

And here I ask why I should believe you, when it seems you want me to believe something new to me - when another viable idea is plausible. You've already answered the plausibility part - so I know it's too much of a risk.

[L] wrote:
@Zorblag on WingDamage: He does not ever appear to be scumhunting; he never felt suspicious about any one person to go and dig deeper on. He consistently said "still unsure on everyone", "no strong reads on anyone". He did express suspicion of me, but never asked me anything so I could respond. That bothers me, because that isn't like my style of play. When I find someone who seems guilty, I dig deeper in on that person until I'm satisfied. Looking at Wing's posts in ISO, he never does any digging, his posts are one or two lines each - filled with either scorn, votes, promises to post more [which never happened], and his Doctor claim.

It was at this point [the claim] that us newbs lost control of the game, and I honestly feel like we're being handled, and shown a certain way to think. You, Zorblag, came onto the scene and handily convinced us that Wing is telling the truth. Now, granted, a lot of his posts could be like a doctor keeping a low profile - but it is the lack of scumhunting that is sticking in my craw. Up until this point, I've been getting a town read on Wing, but it was just based on intuition. I never really looked at Wing because of this. Looking at him in ISO right now though, opens up possibilities that he's the real scum, at this point. I'm suspicious of you and Wing at this point in time.

Sorry for not posting last night!

Thor665 · Post Post #398 (ISO) » Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:36 am

TL:DR

This is a wall posting. Here's the short bits;

Muffinman sort of weakly attacks me - I wuss slap his thoughts and challenge him to present how Romanus was scum.
I also get ahold of L's case and stomp it into the ground (

though at least she tried to show how Romanus was scum, so good on her

Wooosh, actually I think Muffin tried harder.)

This thread needs more crazy - stat.

Hey, Wingy-dingy-doo, hey Misder. Last I checked you guys were confirmed town. I have a playstyle hint for you - CONFIRMED TOWN AREN'T SUPPOSED TO LURK!

Spoiler: Wuss slapping Muffin

Spoiler: L's big case of *wham* Thor's boot to its face

WingDamage9001 · Post Post #399 (ISO) » Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:15 am

Misder wrote: @Wing, you still haven't answered my question. Why did you switch your views so suddenly Day 3?

My views changed as the game state changed. We need to lynch scum today, so I'm not so quick to vote/lynch anyone.

Also, can we lynch scum? In other words, UNVOTE: , VOTE: crazypianist1116. As for a case, /barn Thor.