Cold War Mafia - GAME OVER!!

[Stephoscope]

It is worth noting that there was no "poisoning" nor "removed from bunker" last night. Is there anything we can deduce from that?

Vote: bvoigt

OK, I'm understanding something I wasn't understanding before. Had to think it through.

[Sotty7]

3rd vote count of day 4

Furcolow - 1 -

The Fonz

Stephoscope - 1 -

bvoigt

The Fonz - 2 -

Beasts of the Sea, PeregrineV

bvoigt - 1 -

Stephoscope,

EGL - 2 -

smargaret, Scott Brosius

Feysal - 2 -

Furcolow, ThAdmiral

Not voting - 5 -

Feysal, EGL, Sathoris, Lowell, LynchMePls

• With
  14
  alive, it takes
  8
  to lynch.
  
• Deadline for the end of Day four is Thursday 21st of April @ 11am CST

[ThAdmiral]

Another lovely spread of votes...
Another day that feysal isn't voting...

[Lowell]

I like beasts' case on Fonz. Sorta fits with what I was thinking, that fonz seems somehow different in this game than in others I've played with him.

vote fonz

Of the other two leaders, feysal lynch makes a lot more sense than EGL. Hammering two town isn't great, but to some extent I'd say at least it shows courage and looks better than just riding the wagon somewhere in the middle. That's WIFOM like whoa, I realize, but it's enough to make me call the hammers a null tell.

Furc is climbing up the town ladder for his unique ability to stir things up and keep us all lively and talkative, and bvoigt is climbing down for his meta-talking that serves no purpose.

[LimMePls]

^^That's funny, I have the exact opposite feeling. I'm not keen on Fonz, but I think his rebuttal to BOTS was pretty spot on.

Unvote
Vote: Feysal

This is a good wagon.

[The Fonz]

I like beasts' case on Fonz. Sorta fits with what I was thinking, that fonz seems somehow different in this game than in others I've played with him.

I've completed two games with you since I returned to the site, and in one of those I was scum. Apart from the fact I replaced in, I don't really see how my play here is too different to Simpsons, except for maybe that people actually listened to me there when I told them to wagon the scummy looking VI.

Of the other two leaders, feysal lynch makes a lot more sense than EGL. Hammering two town isn't great, but to some extent I'd say at least it shows courage and looks better than just riding the wagon somewhere in the middle. That's WIFOM like whoa, I realize, but it's enough to make me call the hammers a null tell.

You could also argue that taking a stand on a wagon earlier requires more courage in your convictions than jumping on to hammer. In general, though, Feysal looks like he's doing his damnedest to help the town when he does post, whereas EGL looks like he's coasting. The latter, imho, is a MUCH better wagon.

[The Fonz]

* Since YOU returned, not I returned.

[Furcolow]

Watch for PeregrineV unvoting Fonz soon if his wagon picks up
That would be involving in the Feysal slip, as Feysal has analyzed PeregrineV as being on the other scumteam
It makes me believe I may have been wrong, which is how Fonz easily says what I said was untrue.
I guess I was wrong as to what team he was on.

I am certain on Feysal, definitely leaning scum on the Fonz/JMJ slot
I will vote it if there aren't many other alternatives

If we can't decide, we could always just lynch PeregrineV and bring that scumteam to 1 person
I would rather not, but if we do that, we NEED to get the last scum to prevent the number of kills

[LimMePls]

^^How do you know the size of the scum team? In other words:

If we can't decide, we could always just lynch PeregrineV and bring that scumteam to 1 person

How do you know this is true?

[Furcolow]

I'm assuming

[Furcolow]

The only good thing about checking in so infrequently is that anything I do read is always with fresh eyes, with little influence from past reads. Someone I may have to change my mind on is DavidParker, now PeregrineV. My read of him kept changing on day one, but I've thought him town ever since his reaction to Amrun's claim. Artem believed it was townish, and I agreed... and now I find myself second guessing that. With two scum teams, the reaction may have been genuine, but come from scum that was uncertain whether Amrun belonged to the rival scum team. Then there is that wagon where Artem and DavidParker were among the first to vote gonnano. Two scum leading a lynch on their partner? Not very credible at first glance, but then, I've done it too, late in the day when other wagons were well established and looked likely to result in town lynches. Now I wonder if that was what DavidParker was trying to do, distance from his partner while at the same time avoid being caught on a mislynch, but then the gonnano wagon unexpectedly began to develop, at which point he jumped off, trying to weaken the wagon, and gave a horrible reason for it.

1) Why would you scumhunt the weak team unless you were scum
2) Feysal is generally good at scumhunting/reading who is scum, so I'm going with him on that
3) Therefore, he has pegged 1 of the 2 scum on that team, but would only have a reason to do that as the other team, which we as a town need to reduce in number.

[The Fonz]

Watch for PeregrineV unvoting Fonz soon if his wagon picks up

So now you're basing your suspicion on something that might hypothetically happen, but actually hasn't? Furc, considering your original case on me was mostly based on 'ties' to Gonnano, to drop that and still be making out I'm scum seems dishonest to me. Massive confirmation bias at best.

[bvoigt]

I'm still thinking Fonz is town, and probably Feysal as well.

I like beasts' case on Fonz. Sorta fits with what I was thinking, that

fonz seems somehow different in this game than in others I've played with him.

vote fonz

Of the other two leaders, feysal lynch makes a lot more sense than EGL. Hammering two town isn't great, but to some extent I'd say at least it shows courage and looks better than just riding the wagon somewhere in the middle. That's WIFOM like whoa, I realize, but it's enough to make me call the hammers a null tell.

Furc is climbing up the town ladder for his unique ability to stir things up and keep us all lively and talkative, and bvoigt is climbing down for his meta-talking that serves no purpose.

This post gives me weird vibes, especially the bolded after Fonz's response. Also, where did I "meta-talk"?

[Scott Brosius]

It's looking like 8 vs 4 vs 2.

Why so pessimistic? 8-4-2 could be possible, but I think 10-3-1 is at least equally possible.

I think a 3-man scumteam would have a tough time in a 24-player game. With a Day 1 lynch, crosskill, and good vig shot, they could be eliminated by Day 2 in a worst-case scenario.

Yeah I would guess more likely 8-4-2, small chance of 3 man teams with some random third parties running around but given no flips and seemingly no SK 8-4-2 makes the most sense.

Of the other two leaders, feysal lynch makes a lot more sense than EGL. Hammering two town isn't great, but to some extent I'd say at least it shows courage and looks better than just riding the wagon somewhere in the middle. That's WIFOM like whoa, I realize, but it's enough to make me call the hammers a null tell.

The hammers are null to me. The obvious coasting is of more concern.

Sathoris is another one who is coasting. I'm more than willing to jump on a Peregrine wagon if no content is provided shortly. I thought DP was scummy and the slot hasn't done much in a long time.

[Furcolow]

Watch for PeregrineV unvoting Fonz soon if his wagon picks up

So now you're basing your suspicion on something that might hypothetically happen, but actually hasn't? Furc, considering your original case on me was mostly based on 'ties' to Gonnano, to drop that and still be making out I'm scum seems dishonest to me. Massive confirmation bias at best.

No, to be honest, I feel you are scum, but I am admitting I am wrong.
One thing I am CERTAIN of is that Feysal was coaching his scumteam in his absence to wagon DP, which they obviously can't now because I have pointed it out. Hence my vote being on Feysal and not you.

I am PRETTY sure you are scum, but you might just be tunneling. You are a veteran player, so you know how little defense really matters.

I'm still thinking Fonz is town, and probably Feysal as well.

If you're going to say "so and so is town" without reasons it is worthless

Brosius pointing out his willingness to wagon PeregrineV(DP replacement) is raising suspicions, but I agree with the front part of his post.

@Scott, wouldn't you rather eliminate someone from a 4 person team? I'm assuming Feysal wouldn't want to wagon someone on the team with lower numbers unless he was on the 4 man team. It might be 3, like you said, but that probably wouldn't be that balanced.

[Sotty7]

• Sathoris
  has been prodded.
  
• Beasts of the Sea
  has been prodded.
  
• PeregrineV
  has been prodded.
  
• EGL
  has been prodded.

[LimMePls]

Change of plans.

Unvote
Vote: Fonz

[The Fonz]

Care to explain that, LMP?

[LimMePls]

I've decided that your play is scummy, and I want a replacement on Feysal since he's given up on the game.

[The Fonz]

'I've decided that your play is scummy' is not an explanation, it just moves the question one along the line: WHY is my play scummy? What has changed in the page or so since you thought my rebuttal was spot on?

[LimMePls]

Pretty much your completely disregard for anything but Furc-is-obv-scum-omg and self defense.

[The Fonz]

Except that I haven't disregarded everything else. I've made clear my position on Feysal (townish) and EGL (scummy). I'm not going to throw four years of being an ardent Lynch All Liars advocate out the window because some other people have a town read on Furc, but I'm also clearly not using it as an excuse to avoid commenting on other issues. Also, if I'm attacked by something I don't think is fair or reasonable, of course I'm going to point it out.

If someone were to say 'Look, Gonnano was really obvious scum, and I can't believe Fonz didn't spot it' that would at least be a decent argument, because when a scum is lynched it is usually better to look off-wagon unless they're really, really obv. But to claim that I'm playing differently when I'm not, that I'm ignoring issues unrelated to self-defence or Furc being scum when I've clearly made my views on the other available wagons known, to claim a link with another player on the basis of something he may or may not do in the future- these are terrible excuses to attack someone, and I'm going to make that known.

[Sathoris]

Sorry for my absence, I've already had to replace out of one game but things are livening up on the time front. I'll get back on this game asap!

[Furcolow]

Mafia hardly has any absolutes, but the fact that the statement is lynch ALL liars makes me sort of like where Fonz is coming from. The problem is he replaced in, so he had a biased read of the game, which wasn't in the general flow of it.

I actually just found a flaw in my own reasoning about Feysal. If you're interested, ask me about it. It is not solid, and I'd be happy voting here again in the future, but it is enough to make me unvote for now.

unvote

[PeregrineV]

Watch for PeregrineV unvoting Fonz soon if his wagon picks up
That would be involving in the Feysal slip, as Feysal has analyzed PeregrineV as being on the other scumteam
It makes me believe I may have been wrong, which is how Fonz easily says what I said was untrue.
I guess I was wrong as to what team he was on.

I am certain on Feysal, definitely leaning scum on the Fonz/JMJ slot
I will vote it if there aren't many other alternatives

If we can't decide, we could always just lynch PeregrineV and bring that scumteam to 1 person
I would rather not, but if we do that, we NEED to get the last scum to prevent the number of kills

Sorry for the need to prod- weekends are mostly for family.
Since I'm addressed here I'll start by addressing it.
Ummm...what wagon?
So I undertsand properly, you think Feysal has me on the "other" scum team, are going with his read, and think he is scum also?
If I'm misunderstanding, please clarify your "argument". You can post as many links as you like, I have no problem reading in a forum-based game.