Just tweaking the game a bit to add more (hopefully) of a town advantage, especially to setup 4 where town just gets blasted in the game. UD is doc that fails if they target the cop, leaving the 2RB on setup 1 and 4 is to leave the setup only half known for scum, much like the RB signaling both or niether role in F11.
Not intended to replace newbie setup. Just a modification of one for basic play.
Herodotus wrote:
bv310 wrote:Where's the difference between 2, 3, & 4? Is it in rolename only?
It makes a difference whether the cop knows that they can't be protected, or if the doc knows there's no reason to ever protect a claimed cop, etc.
In fact, that's one great selling point: UD and MC is better than UD and cop, or doc and MC.
This is the reason behind it. Its common practice for the cop/doc setup to be regarded as "more fun" by players, so this is a way to always have a cop and doc around, just possibly weaker versions of it.
Faraday wrote:2 roleblockers seem a bit strong. Could always make it a group abillity, b ut for a newbie game that'd be weird.
Effectively it is a group ability, if one of the mafia is performing the RB and the other is performing the kill (presumably a lone mafia RB can use both abilities during the same night.)
Thats normally my rule for games. If there is just one member left they can then start performing a kill and active action. Giving scum two RBers in the cop/doc helps balance it a bit. In the WC/UD it leaves scum not sure as to what they are up against.
Again, this is NOT a newbie game setup. Just a regular open game that is a modification of the newbie (F11) setup.
1 Mafia (knows the Jester's identity)
1 Jester
4 Townies
Nightless
The Jester suicides and lose if they're not lynched by the end of Day 2.
That sounds interesting. Why would you let the mafia know who it was, though? The only way he could stop a lynch would be by claiming. And that'd be bad for everyone but town.
Really, this sounds like a game that town can't lose unless they're stupid. Unless of course, No Lynch was not an option, as GreyICE suggested.
EV for that game was 33.33% Jester win, 26.67% Mafia win, and 40% Town win. I was hoping that by telling the Mafia who the Jester was, that might balance it out some, as well as create that whole "informed minority" thing. But now that I think about it, I kind of dislike that idea, since the Jester could be seriously hindered by bad Mafia play. (I was under the impression that the Mafia would have to direct the lynch away from the Jester without actually claiming, btw.)
So I'd dump the whole "knows the Jester's identity" thing after all. Whether it's balanced "enough" after that, I'm not sure.
I think I've figured out what GreyICE means re: Nomination Mafia.
The mafia have the option of always submitting three townies (until very late in the game if their numbers are reduced.)
Grey's point seems to be this:
Suppose they do that.
Even if the town somehow knew that all of the submitted names were townies, town would still be at a disadvantage.
If that's true, then the scum can follow this plan as a breaking strategy.
Just because a majority of a group of people decide it's okay doesn't mean it's not murder. - Cobblerfone
I'd drop the mafia knowing who the jester was, too, but I'd play either way.
"Fuck you. I opened up my heart to you and you stabbed it a thousand times." - Gamma, to me, right before confessing to being the town vig and murdering my scum partner N1.
Hmm. No If someone gets close to lych the jester can try and convince them he knows the lynch candidate is a jester... Because he's mafia. Mafia knowing makes it much more interesting.
As long as no lynch = town loss.
Self votes also can't be reflected in the vote count.
Fair point, but wouldn't people think that person is the jester? Why would scum, in their right mind, ever say, "No! He's jester! I know cause I'm scum!" >.< That hands town the victory (if they're actually mafia and not the jester).
"Fuck you. I opened up my heart to you and you stabbed it a thousand times." - Gamma, to me, right before confessing to being the town vig and murdering my scum partner N1.
Exactly. But what if the person seems entirely certain the lynch is the jester? Are they really certain town? Scum with 100% certainty built into the role pm? Or the jester faking it to look like scum?
It's uneven knowledge.
Also ironically if they lynch mafia day 1 they need one town lynch.
GreyICE wrote:
Also ironically if they lynch mafia day 1 they need one town lynch.
Town wins (I presume) once all the scum have been eliminated.
Jesters are scum, but die automatically after day 2. With no possibility for no-lynch, they
have
to lynch a townie.
Which is another possibility for the Jester, if he catches a strong scumtell from the player and sets himself as the incredibly pro-town person driving the mafia lynch.
Overall, the uneven knowledge is the fact that the Mafia knows the Jester's identity, and the fact that the Jester knows that the Mafia knows. So overall, that means it meets the criteria for Mafia.
Would this be favoring mostly the town, but you should expect seeing the mafia not being on the wagon, because it's a jester.
Sigh, it should be a bit more easier for mafias to win, but 1-1-4 seems fine.
I blame you for this.
For I have been awaiting for another heart pounding segment of
Dokidoki Precure!
[10/15/2013 - 00:13] -
Tragedy
~
I wish for Kami-nii-sama to have better naming skills.
Jester ends game, so a Jester lynch won't tell you anything about Mafia identity, because game ends.
Bad mafia play can be WIFOMed by good Jester play (he's obviously Mafia, therefore he's the Jester, etc. etc.)
I'd say actual win percentages will most likely be:
Jester - 50%
Town - 30%
Mafia - 20%
GreyICE wrote:Jester ends game, so a Jester lynch won't tell you anything about Mafia identity, because game ends.
Bad mafia play can be WIFOMed by good Jester play (he's obviously Mafia, therefore he's the Jester, etc. etc.)
I'd say actual win percentages will most likely be:
Jester - 50%
Town - 30%
Mafia - 20%
Then it'd be pretty obvious that the Jester would be playing like a retarded town just to get lynched. Ugh.
I blame you for this.
For I have been awaiting for another heart pounding segment of
Dokidoki Precure!
[10/15/2013 - 00:13] -
Tragedy
~
I wish for Kami-nii-sama to have better naming skills.
GreyICE wrote:Jester ends game, so a Jester lynch won't tell you anything about Mafia identity, because game ends.
Bad mafia play can be WIFOMed by good Jester play (he's obviously Mafia, therefore he's the Jester, etc. etc.)
I'd say actual win percentages will most likely be:
Jester - 50%
Town - 30%
Mafia - 20%
Then it'd be pretty obvious that the Jester would be playing like a retarded town just to get lynched. Ugh.
Jesters are amazingly hard to deal with.
The one problem I see with this is that the mafia has a general incentive to lurk, while the Jester has a general incentive to stay in the forefront. That being said, a town lynch day 1 doesn't screw the Jester, so he can setup a 'he's so scum' day 2 based on his wagon behavior day 1.
My original intention was that the town would win instantly if the Mafia was lynched Day 1 (though I think my percentages were accidentally made for the other way). I just don't like that the mafia could potentially be like "Ah, crap, well XXX is the Jester, btw," right before he was lynched.
I'm good with the Mafia knowing the Jester's identity if that's what everyone else prefers. That would probably cut back on the Jester's win %, too.
@Shotty - No, I'm not modding soon. I have no objections if you run it; that's up to farside, I think.
Here's another option:
Jester Nightless 8p
2 Mafia Lovers
1 Jester
5 Townies
Mafia don't know who the Jester is, since the Jester has a tougher time in a setup with more players.
Jester wins if he is one of the first two players lynched. Otherwise, he suicides and loses.
If the Mafia is lynched Day 1, then the town still needs to lynch a Townie in order to get rid of the Jester.
If the Jester is lynched, then the game is over.
With this, the EV percentages are:
Jester - 25%
Town - 30%
Mafia - 45%
Last edited by Crazy on Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
