. Flipflopping, dodging questions, buddying/sucking up, not cool. Also saying that being illogical isn't a bad thing, and this backpedaling on scotmany.
What's scummy about mozamis saying being illogical isn't a bad thing? (I think he actually said it's not scummy, not that it's not a bad thing.)
What are one or two scummy flip-flops mozamis has made and why did you find them scummy?
Who did mozamis buddy/suck up to besides Meransiel, and what did you find scummy about his buddying/suck-ups?
Apokalyptika wrote:Meransiel is scummy
Can you please explain why?
Apokalyptika wrote:Truant/CES is silly in his MBL vote but otherwise fairly null.
I'm not lazy; I'm normally very active and such, and I haven't dropped into prod territory or anything like that, but my boyfriend finds it very rude when I troll the net/my phone for hours and don't pay full attention to him. Since I don't get to see him that much, I set mafia games somewhat to the side during those occasions (especially special occasions like our anniversary, which was this weekend).
I SHOULD have paid attention to when this game would be starting: right before back to back busy weekends. But I'm a bit silly and I saw this game and went FROGGIESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS YAYYYY and signed up immediately.
My apologies. My lack of attention to this game has been weighing on my conscience, which is why I'm bothering to explain. I will do better as soon as physically possible. Probably tomorrow I will get some sort of massive post up.
Mozamis continues to dig a grave, might as well put her in it, can't let all that hard work go to waste of course.
Amrun wrote:
I'm not lazy; I'm normally very active and such, and I haven't dropped into prod territory or anything like that, but my boyfriend finds it very rude when I troll the net/my phone for hours and don't pay full attention to him. Since I don't get to see him that much, I set mafia games somewhat to the side during those occasions (especially special occasions like our anniversary, which was this weekend).
I SHOULD have paid attention to when this game would be starting: right before back to back busy weekends. But I'm a bit silly and I saw this game and went FROGGIESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS YAYYYY and signed up immediately.
My apologies. My lack of attention to this game has been weighing on my conscience, which is why I'm bothering to explain. I will do better as soon as physically possible. Probably tomorrow I will get some sort of massive post up.
Unnecessary apology is unnecessary. To be honest, while I do understand that there are situations where you can't post and such, this apologizing that has been going on throughout the game, combined with the last sentence of the post really stand out as paranoidscum not wanting to get caught out for lack of presence. Looking at your ISO, I see apologizing pop up whenever you make a mistake inthread, so you are very concerned with how you are perceived in game.
I can see how that might be perceived, but my presence in this game has simply not been up to par with my usual presence in games and it annoys me according to my own personal standards.
I tend to be pretty honest and not really care how such and such looks. If I feel compelled to apologize, I'm going to.
And if I make a mistake, which I think I did make one that I can recall, why WOULDN'T I apologize? That's just RUDE, not to apologize to the player that is affected by the mistake. I recall apologizing to MBL once for this reason. That's a blanket policy I employ.
I have been far from the least contributive player, though. Far from it. You should think about that.
There is another reason I did this that I won't share just yet.
Meransiel wrote:And why would it be so bad not to give all reads? Both the mafia AND the town will have access to more information, and I do believe the town can benefit more from it.
Giving all of our reads makes it very easy for scum to decide who to nightkill, and it makes it easier for them to influence the direction of the lynch.
nopointinactingup wrote:
scotmany12 wrote:
Point out where MBL has lied.
I'm not sure what to think of MBL's coaching. I'm more concerned with his coaching of Mozamis, because he seems pretty sure that Moz is scum.
Gah!! How many times do I have to say this. MBL said that he did what he did to see if people are paying attention to his predecessor ( AND NOT A JOKE ). But he revealed his card when only 3 people have commented on his post, implying that is not his underlying purpose at all. When I inquire him about this he ignores admist you guys talking about how it was an obvious joke. Reread him please.
Point out where MBL lied. No more skirting around the question. No more saying that he revealed his card when only 3 people commented on his post. Point out where MBL lied in your next post. I want exact quotes.
mozamis wrote:Seem to remember Scotty popping up to back up some of MBls attacks
I did no such thing. While I am addressing you Moz, answer the questions I have posed you.
scotmany12 wrote:Moz: Respond to this in your next post.
scotmany12 wrote:
scotmany12 wrote:Moz: Why did you just ignore both implosion and me asking you to point out where MBL is flailing around?
And I have a hard time believing you forgot those two questions. They were just repeated on the last page. So are you not reading the game? Even if you did forget, wouldn't you then go back and see what the questions were? Don't try to say you only thought one question was posed at you.
Respond to that. Now. Where is MBL flailing around? And respond to the latter part as well.
No more ignoring me. Respond to this in your next post.
Tuncali wrote:As for the petroleumjelly and MrBuddyLee argument, I am getting the feeling that it is a Town on Town argument. Both of you are making good points, but I do not think either of your actions are from a Mafia-oriented perspective.
Well, scum is simply more likely to be illogical than town. In addition, he was contradicting himself in the use of the word irrational. His Post 21 tries to clear it up, but frankly it doesn't ring true. Like I said, the pressure on scotmany followed by a "lol dunno no evidence" doesn't impress me, especially when he earlier said he couldn't be bothered to find any. In addition to buddying with Meransiel, he's been quite friendly to PJ, now that it seems advantageous to be on his good side.
Meransiel's pj vote was quite flimsy. He said he wasnted PJ to be more of a team player, which could quite easily be scumspeak for "Oh no! Town's got a leader! What can I do to discredit him?" Also, there's some moz coaching from his side (see his last post, where he congratulates moz for playing better and unvotes) Honestly, if mozamis was found to be town after all, my suspicions of Meransiel would be a lot less.
The vote was silly because Truant posted about how MBL only read the predecessor and such. I get the feeling that he didn't actually bother to go back and factcheck, which is silly, but not necessarily scummy. CES hasn't given me any complaints so far.
@ MBL Went back and re-read your case on Mer, some good stuff being said there. I agree that there are inconsistencies and flip flops, but I really can’t see Mer as being a scum trying to influence the votes, he seems to vote on quite a personal level. I remember when I was new here, I was so keen to play that I posted ALL the time, and it often just came out like streams of consciousness, going back and forth on players. I would struggle to see Mer as a scum, to be honest. I don’t entirely agree that inconsistency=scum. Not in this case.
However I do agree with your point about those pushing for a Mer wagon. In my mind, trying to picture what I would do if I were scum, Mer seems like quite an easy lynch. I would be suspicious of OGML and Truant (CES) since they both jumped on that wagon. In my mind, two players I have scum reads on pushing for an easy lynch? That just reeks to me.
So yeah, pretty sure of Mertown, I’d look at those attacking him.
Amrun wrote:
I have been far from the least contributive player, though. Far from it. You should think about that.
QFT. I'd personally like to see a bit more from OGML...
Amrun wrote:
There is another reason I did this that I won't share just yet.
ughhh. I really dislike when players do this. I've played in games before where mavericks have launched various ploys, all it does is give an all-purposes get out for anything suspicious, and make the player look like he's scumhunting without actually giving evidence of it. yuck.
that having been said, I have seen this sort of thing been done many a time by townies. The ploys rarely work, and they usually result in a mislynch due to the user looking so damn suspicious.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that having ploys to catch scum is fine, but dont be all "yeah I had a reason for <insert weird activity>, I won't share it jsut yet cos i'm trying to catch scum"- cos either way, it's really bad for the town.
Here is a blanket post where I address everyone in the order that they are on the list in the OP:
Scotmany12: Town, so far. In general, I like his posts and I don't understand the attacks on him at all. However, recently he has started to fall off the activity wagon. Not enough to be a strike against him yet, but he could move into active lurker status if nothing improves.
kunkstar7: Town, so far. I think all of the points (even the ones raised against me) he has raised are thus far logical and from a town point of view. Perhaps could use a little more activity.
Merensial: Scum, so far. She says, "Scum tend to change votes a lot" then proceeds to do just that. I don't think any one of her votes have made any sort of real sense. Her supposed scumread on scotmany is just ... There are no words. Her MBL vote is okay, I suppose, and definitely the best of the lot. Her moz vote "plan" is terrible and achieves nothing; she has been trying to cast aspersion onto pj since he claimed and it doesn't sit well with me. None of the attacks on pj make sense and just the way it is done strikes me as off. Also, when she unvoted moz, she said, "Glad you're doing better now." WHAT?!
OhGodMyLife/Apokalypta: Null. OGML's ISO 3 is good to me, but then ISO 4 is terrible and nothing improves from then on out. This slot needs to post more for me to get a proper read. Apok seems town so far, especially in ISO 2, where I didn't even realize he reflects my own read of Merensial somewhat. OGML's slight scumminess balances this out to make it a tentative null pending more content.
pj: Town. He's claimed dayvig and I'm inclined to believe the claim and that it's probably town, since the former can be proven and will inform the latter. His dayvig choices should tell us his alignment, later on, but his posts overall suggest he is town.
MBL: Null leaning town. Some parts of his posts, I like very much, like the beginning of ISO 25 about OGML. Others I think are pure obfuscation, like all the talk of defenses. Producing walls does not make you pro-town. It's what's in them that counts. For now, I think he's town, but a lot of what he says doesn't actually have that much substance, to me, and that worries me.
Tuncali: Null. I really don't know what to make of him. He has several scumtells, but he's so painfully new that I don't know what to think. However, I keep picking up on associative tells between him and MBL, so if one flips mafia, that will really affect my reads.
BlenBlen/DarkStrike: Town, so far, because of DarkStrike. His "wall-o-words" seemed to come from a townie motivation, to me, not by merit of being a wall of words, but from what he said. Also, to answer his most recent post to me: I dislike playing my hand so publicly like that, but I felt the need to address kunkstar and thought that needed to be added so it would be clear I wasn't contradicting myself later.
implosion - Null leaning town, so far. Most of his posts, especially the ones on Merensials' logic, seem town, but he needs to post more for me to get a full read on him.
Truant/CogitoEroSum - Null, leaning scum. I had a weak townread on Truant, though I didn't agree with some of his logic. CES' posts just rubs me the wrong way. His first post in the game is a totally unexplained vote. :/ He needs to post more before I get a full read, though.
mozamis: Scum. I think she's townbuddying hard with pj and POSSIBLY Merensiel but possibly scumbuddying there. The worst thing for me, thoguh, is her abandoning of her read on scotmany. When called out for it, she attacked me for not contributing instead, even though I do contribute. It's true I can do better (and will), but other players' lackings have nothing to do with hers and it's a very poor deflection tactic.
ender/nopointinactingup: Null, leaning scum. Slot content not much to speak of, but I don't like the mudslinging I see, replacing MBL's name for "MrScummyLee" in quotes and things like that.
There are my full set of reads. In general, from now on, I will put more effort into this game in an attempt to engage with it fully like I haven't been able to up until now.
@ Scotmany: re: MBL flailing around. It's just an impression thing. A few of his posts after his weird "joke" about his predecessor being scummy just looked like he was trying to come up with as many reasons as possible to cover his mistake.
Just check out his next few posts after his entrance and you'll see what I mean.
You've reached that age, Listy. 24, 25...Your muscles give up, they wave a little white flag of surrender and without any warning at all, you're suddenly a fat bastard...
@Amrun You're vote on me seems a bit OMGUS. You didn't like it when i pointed out that you hadn't given any reads at all. Yet you were asking me for mine and complaining that my read on scotmany was pretty weak.
Which, as I said at the time, it was. Then I realised that although you had posted a fair bit, you hadnt made any real contributions of your own. So I found your attack on me a tad hypocritical.
Frankly I think you're town just being emotional.
People should note her vote for me consists of:
1) "possible" buddying. One of which is "town" buddying and "POSSIBLY" Meransial. Pretty vague.
2) My abandonment of my read on Scotmany. As I said at the time, my read WAS pretty weak on Scot, thats why I abandoned it. Its up to you to believe that or not.
In summary, your case on me is thin, bordering non existent. If you're scum: DO BETTER! I like a challenge
But if you're town, which I think you are, reasess your views. You case on me really rests on my abandonment of my read on Scotmany, which is pretty silly.
You've reached that age, Listy. 24, 25...Your muscles give up, they wave a little white flag of surrender and without any warning at all, you're suddenly a fat bastard...
Amrun wrote:Also, to answer his most recent post to me: I dislike playing my hand so publicly like that, but I felt the need to address kunkstar and thought that needed to be added so it would be clear I wasn't contradicting myself later.
yeah that's fair enough. I actually had a thought about it, and seeing as I'm fine with the town having ploys to try to catch scum, I thought, which alternative is better?
a) someone claims that they are doing a ploy, but doesnt tell
b) someone doesnt say, then later claims that they're actions were a ploy.
truthful or not, the latter option is much worse, so fair play Amrun. However, we WILL be expecting an explanation as to what your reasoning was later in the game. I will not forget
By the way, I like your wall-o-readz, gives some good insight. Hey Moz, wanna try one of those? I'd quite like to see your opinions on players other than Meransiel and MBL.
Amrun, in your post you said Moz: Scum. Which gave me the impression you thought i was...scum
You've reached that age, Listy. 24, 25...Your muscles give up, they wave a little white flag of surrender and without any warning at all, you're suddenly a fat bastard...
Amrun wrote: but also your lack of reads and commitment to them.
.
Yes I changed my mind. Baffles me why people think thats scummy.
You've reached that age, Listy. 24, 25...Your muscles give up, they wave a little white flag of surrender and without any warning at all, you're suddenly a fat bastard...
Yeah, now that it's been addressed, I probably won't get anything good out of my ploy, but I want to wait on one or two more things, then I'll share.
Unfortunately, by talking about it, I mostly ruined it, but such is life sometimes.
p-edit: But I'm not VOTING for you, mozamis. I do find you suspicious. I'd rather see a Merensial flip at this time. You would be second choice, though.
Your play IS improving, though, and it is making me think harder. Idk.
Amrun wrote:Also, to answer his most recent post to me: I dislike playing my hand so publicly like that, but I felt the need to address kunkstar and thought that needed to be added so it would be clear I wasn't contradicting myself later.
By the way, I like your wall-o-readz, gives some good insight. Hey Moz, wanna try one of those? I'd quite like to see your opinions on players other than Meransiel and MBL.
not really. everone looks pretty town to me atm, apart from buddy lee.
You've reached that age, Listy. 24, 25...Your muscles give up, they wave a little white flag of surrender and without any warning at all, you're suddenly a fat bastard...
lol! was just thinking that. Clearly, at least one person as me bamboozled.
But its a combination of:
1) No one else looking that scummy.
2) Want to focus on BuddyLee.
My limited experience in other games tells me not to get sidetracked. Frankly, other people need to interrogate Buddy more. Be nice for him to answer other peoples questions as opposed to flinging out questions everytime he gets cornered.
You've reached that age, Listy. 24, 25...Your muscles give up, they wave a little white flag of surrender and without any warning at all, you're suddenly a fat bastard...
And let's say MBL is lynched and he flips scum. What then?
If you tunnel that hard, you're left in the same bad position no matter the flip; you won't know where to go next, presuming you're town.
That's why I'm not sure it IS town, because scum would know what MBL would flip and after achieving a mislynch, they'd just go "woops" and no one else would know what to do with them, either. It's a way for scum to avoid giving other reads, imho.
That's another reason my read on MBL is confused atm. I also find him somewhat scummy, but it's highly unlikely he is on the same scumteam as you.
So if he flipped scum, I'd have a pretty solid townread on you, for example. The opposite isn't quite as true, though. You COULD both be town ... but then my reads would be really off and I'd be mostly back to the drawing board.
Amrun wrote:Also, to answer his most recent post to me: I dislike playing my hand so publicly like that, but I felt the need to address kunkstar and thought that needed to be added so it would be clear I wasn't contradicting myself later.
By the way, I like your wall-o-readz, gives some good insight. Hey Moz, wanna try one of those? I'd quite like to see your opinions on players other than Meransiel and MBL.
not really. everone looks pretty town to me atm, apart from buddy lee.
wow. you really don't get this "how to be pro-town" thing do you? You have to look at other people and see what is suspicious, give us your opinions on other people, because it helps the town! Looks like we have to do this the hard way.
unvote
vote Mozamis
boom. thats -1. wanna post a scumlist now?
vote will be removed once you post your opinions on at least a few other people than just channeling MBL.
