Cowboy Bebop Remix [Endgame]

[Fate]

"You know the first rule of combat?"

Vote Count

Cogito Ergo Sum (0):
Rhinox (0):
Jahudo (1): GreyICE
Lady Lambdadelta (0):
GreyICE (0):
ToastyToast (0):
Antitown (0):
Kdub (1): Ladya Lam
Untrod Tripod (0):

Not voting: All else

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.
Deadline: Thursday, April 7th.

[ToastyToast]

@LLD: Explain your Kdub vote?

@GreyICE: your just as much a mess as I am. So,

go f yourself.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You're going to have to explain that one, Rhinox. UK claimed to have info that Grey is town. UK flipped town as a character that has obvious connections to Grey's claimed character. How is he scum?

Vi or Jahudo should be the lynch. I'm willing to follow along with Grey today.

VOTE: Vi

UNVOTE:

No reason to rush this. I'm interested to hear what Rhinox has to say. It's at least clear that whatever he thinks he has on GreyICE, nobody else seems to be picking up on it.

So there are way too many contradictions here. What I am missing? why is greyICE NOT scum?

Because he is confirmed town. If you continue to insist that he is scum, can you at least address the UK quotes where she is claiming role info that proves Grey as town?

VOTE: Vi
I think this is the right play for today.

[Kdub]

With Vi's scum flip, I do not think Jahudo is likely to be scum. I'm just not seeing the miller-counterclaim as a likely gambit given how it went down. Had Vi flipped town, I'd probably agree with you Grey, but I feel Jahudo is more likely to be telling the truth.

I've been feeling worse about Toasty. I should have realized it yesterday, but after Seraphim flipped non-mafia, Grey's thing on D1 about Toasty trying to set up mislynches (Seraphim + Grey) is actually a very good point. I just didn't think about that yesterday because Seraphim flipped third party, which I generally associate with scum. I also don't like how he was quick to jump on Grey yesterday after Rhinox started a push against him, then backed off once it was clear nobody was buying it.

LL:
Not sure what the problem with that is. I unvoted (to prevent quickhammers) to see what Rhinox had on Grey, I wasn't convinced by what he had to say, so I put my vote back. I even made a post saying this in between the posts you chose to quote.

VOTE: Toasty

[Jahudo]

Vote: Untrod Tripod

Is UT getting replaced / prodded?

-----

Your theory is interesting Grey, but you are only saying that I would have acted that way as Vi's buddy. Why wouldn't I have acted that way as an actual miller? How is it more likely that the steps I took (voting Vi before the claim, reacting to Seraphim's claim, arguing over the flavor validity, etc.) had a scum perspective rather than a town one?

[Fate]

12.) If you do not post for the equivalent of a full game day (10 real life days) you will be force-replaced. Further, you will be blacklisted from any future games using the BaM ruleset. Keep in mind that there are no replacements for flaking in a BaM ruleset game. Other circumstances requiring replacement are up to the mods discretion.

Subtracting the Night Phase, Untrod has a few hours left to post before he is force-replaced.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Oh fuck me.

@Kdub: You're good. I wanted to check something, and you're fine.

UNVOTE:

@Jahudo: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU Why are you so terribad? HONESTLY? Like... gah! I have other ideas for who Vi's scum buddies are besides you... and you come in and ruin that with your posting. >.>

Scum List currently:

Toasty/Rhinox/Jahudo/CES

Rhinox doesn't get lynched today. He's 4th on the list really.

Jahudo and CES are high, but I'm wavering a bit.

VOTE: Toasty

[GreyICE]

Vote: Untrod Tripod

Is UT getting replaced / prodded?

-----

Your theory is interesting Grey, but you are only saying that I would have acted that way as Vi's buddy. Why wouldn't I have acted that way as an actual miller? How is it more likely that the steps I took (voting Vi before the claim, reacting to Seraphim's claim, arguing over the flavor validity, etc.) had a scum perspective rather than a town one?

1) You claimed miller

after I claimed an investigate.

With Nacho having a case on you (or so he said) and me having an investigate and being CONVINCED Toasty and Vi were scum (oh hai Vi, Vicious of the Red Dragon Clan) that would actually leave any scumteam containing you and Vi in a bad way. And you counterclaiming Vi's miller counterclaim ensured that ONE of the two of you would live as 'town uninvestigatable' by being counterclaimed as scum.

2) Seraphim hammer - me and Nacho in particular were kicking the Seraphim wagon trying to make it fall apart. That was totally unacceptable for the scumteam, since the obvious lynch after Seraphim was... one of either you or Vi. Day 1 scum lynches are nasty. What's the odds you'll live with 10 town left? Especially with Seraphim confirmed (and I assume leaving the thread - that part from him felt like a load of bollocks) if Vi died?

3) You were counterclaimed by Vi. YOU WERE COUNTERCLAIMED BY SCUM. I know when I'm counterclaimed, what I do is glue my vote to the scumbag so hard that Gorilla glue calls me asking for the recipe.

I've been debating on whether it is okay for two identical power roles to have a different amount of useful information. Your role explicitly says Red Dragon is mafia, whereas for mine to be about the red dragons I'd have to assume ... that Gren was being accused of being a spy for the red dragons during the titan war even though Vicious was the one who testified against him so who is associating Gren and Vicious for that, and why do they think Gren is working for the red dragons in the first place? Should i just assume all that then? If all you knew about the character was "framed by Vicious" is that a strong enough piece of role information to know that Vicious is mafia, and therefore the mafia is Red Dragon? I just don't know.

I've also been wondering about how many mini's have used multiple millers. I can't think of any, and it would make Grey's role even more useless if my role did show up as red dragon. I could also see Fate wanting to nerf a cop though.

4) Nacho died. Not the night he said "lynch Jahudo after you lynch me." The night after.

Well WIFOM and all, but Nacho was a weird ass shot from where I'm sitting if you're town.

5) Look at you and Vi's reaction to the miller claim:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p2891172

Vi votes Seraphim, you vote Seraphim. Y'know, despite both of you theoretically having confirmed scum due to counterclaim.

Jahudo hammer reasoning:

unvote;
Vote: Seraphim

[GreyICE]

Oh fuck me.

@Kdub: You're good. I wanted to check something, and you're fine.

UNVOTE:

@Jahudo: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU Why are you so terribad? HONESTLY? Like... gah! I have other ideas for who Vi's scum buddies are besides you... and you come in and ruin that with your posting. >.>

Scum List currently:

Toasty/Rhinox/Jahudo/CES

Rhinox doesn't get lynched today. He's 4th on the list really.

Jahudo and CES are high, but I'm wavering a bit.

VOTE: Toasty

Oooh Toasty wagon is smexy, I admit. I could use a lot less Toast in this thread. But Jahudo needs to die so badly.

Rhinox is town incompetent. After me and Vi fighting in the thread for most of day 1, then UK confirming me, then me getting scum lynched day 2 (and not moving my vote, as soon as Vi counterclaimed my hider ability -

GORILLA GLUE

).

[GreyICE]

Bleh submitted.

Meant to say scum would go after a mislynch. It's only dumbtown who get this deep in a tunnel that they can't see daylight.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I caught onto Vi before you did. :3

But yeah, lots of people need rope today.

Also, I'd like to point out that my reads were 100% correct. I said that if Sera was town, Vi was scum. I also said that Sera was SUPER scummy.

Low and behold, Sera flips third party (which means his interactions with Vi still stay the same) and Vi flips scum, just as promised. :3

Makes me wonder if my CES read is right.

[GreyICE]

Bah I was chewing Vi's ass. And I'm no good at third parties, I never find the scumtracks around them so always assume they're town. Seraphim's explanation made 100% sense except for the vig kill (oh look, it was bounty power) and the staying in the thread nonsense (he departed I'm sure, so he was always going to cost us 0.5 lynches). Bad claiming, should have just come clean and we'd have lynched Vi. Would have been HYSTERICAL.

So Toasty and Jahudo... hmm... as long as I know you and kdub ain't gonna let this one slide if I keel over dead, I'll go toasty. But no derping onto CES before Jahudo is flipped town miller, 'kay?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm surprised I'm not dead yet.

And if not me, then you.

Why weren't either of us killed last night? Why NACHO?

This feels like a Mina kill, don't you think Grey?

[GreyICE]

I'm surprised I'm not dead yet.

And if not me, then you.

Why weren't either of us killed last night? Why NACHO?

This feels like a Mina kill, don't you think Grey?

No.

It's the fucking PERFECT time for Jahudo scum to off Nacho. Think about it. He just hammered scum. As far as he knows, there's one person in the thread with a solid case on him. He hammered day 1 cutting off the case. He hammered day 2 cutting off day 2 really early. Nacho is dead.

It could be a frame job, except that it's framing a CLAIMED FUCKING MILLER whose SCUMMY AS SHIT. Making the case to mislynch him is easy as hell, you leave the guy who suspects him alive and start shooting your nigh-confirmed town.

[Jahudo]

Ok

[GreyICE]

^^ SCUMCLAIM

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm surprised I'm not dead yet.

And if not me, then you.

Why weren't either of us killed last night? Why NACHO?

This feels like a Mina kill, don't you think Grey?

No.

It's the fucking PERFECT time for Jahudo scum to off Nacho. Think about it. He just hammered scum. As far as he knows, there's one person in the thread with a solid case on him. He hammered day 1 cutting off the case. He hammered day 2 cutting off day 2 really early. Nacho is dead.

It could be a frame job, except that it's framing a CLAIMED FUCKING MILLER whose SCUMMY AS SHIT. Making the case to mislynch him is easy as hell, you leave the guy who suspects him alive and start shooting your nigh-confirmed town.

This kill feels unnatural to me.

Maybe I'm just looking at it weird.

Maybe I'm the unnatural one.

P-Edit: UNVOTE: VOTE: Jahudo

Fuck it. If you're town, you're on this wagon.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@Mod: Fix mah tags please?

@Grey: Ninja'd >.>

[GreyICE]

Well the other thing is Jahudo is either flying solo, or flying with Toasty. Look at the player list.

I think Toasty would have huge reason to shoot me. Huge, enormous reasons. I'm confirmed town, I've had two correct scumreads (if toasty is scum) on day 1 and at least one correct one confirmed in thread. I told Vi I'd be gunning for him like a bat out of hell AND I WAS - the thing with toasty at the end of day 1 was mostly so that if my Hider flip happened people would know exactly who I hid behind - mostly worthless, as it turned out (also me flipping hider would have killed Vi anyway, so that would have been a toofer).

I think Jahudo scum has huge enormous reasons to shoot Nacho and cross his fingers. What we're witnessing here is a scumteam literally falling apart on itself. That says Jahudo sitting in the QT just QQing and praying, and that says to me Vi dead, himself making a horrible hammer, his partner flaking, and that "Ok" was just "well, you got me."

Could be Toasty and Jahudo sitting there and arguing about whose more boned, with Toasty saying "well, might as well shoot Nacho and I'll just go down, lets try and get one mislynch in first before you have to bus me" but I think we need to relook at the UT bit.

[ToastyToast]

I've been feeling worse about Toasty. I should have realized it yesterday, but after Seraphim flipped non-mafia, Grey's thing on D1 about Toasty trying to set up mislynches (Seraphim + Grey) is actually a very good point. I just didn't think about that yesterday because Seraphim flipped third party, which I generally associate with scum. I also don't like how he was quick to jump on Grey yesterday after Rhinox started a push against him, then backed off once it was clear nobody was buying it.
VOTE: Toasty

i figured suspicion would go back on me after Vi was lynched.
My logic with Grey-Seraphim was based on the fact that I was fairly certain that it wasn't town on town. They were going after each other WAY too much, and were the two scummiest players D1. Likewise, I don't think scumbuddies would go after one another that much.

My logic was basically this:
Grey and Seraphim are not on the same side
Grey comes off as the most scummy
If Grey flips scum (which I thought he would), then Seraphim is cleared as town
If Grey flips town, then Seraphim is not town.
Turns out, Seraphim was third party, which means my logic wasn't all that off

I consider no one to be confirmed town right now, including GreyICE. I can see a way in which he is scum, but his Vi suspicions were spot-on.

I was planning to wait until UT showed up before a vote, but now that we may need a replacement...

My current scum-team read is Jahudo/UT, with GreyICE and Rhinox in the middle, Kdub and LLD for town.

[GreyICE]

HOW AM I IN THE MIDDLE?

Are you saying my interactions with Vi were MUTUAL SCUMBUSSING? Or is it the bit where UK stated that she had role information on me being town, then flipped EX-LOVER BODYGUARD? Or is it the bit where I claimed to be the bounty on day 2 and NO ONE COUNTERCLAIMED ME?

I AM CONFIRMED FUCKING TOWN HERE

[Kdub]

Grey, I guess I'm just not seeing it. Seraphim looked to be well on the way to being lynched after Vi's counterclaim. I thought Jahudo's miller claim after that started turning the tide toward Vi again, but it was Seraphim's botched claim (that he stayed in the game after winning) that sealed his fate. I just can't fathom Jahudo making that type of gambit there to try to get his buddy lynched over someone else. Yeah, I suppose Vi getting lynched there would have made Jahudo look town, but is that really worth sacrificing a buddy D1 when a "mislynch" (at least from the scum team's point of view) looked likely? I will say that the timing of his hammers have not exactly given me great vibes, nor have his posts today.

Toasty:
I don't have a problem with your logic, but facts are facts. Grey is basically confirmed town, and Seraphim was third party, and you tried to frame it as "lynch one today, lynch the other tomorrow if they flip town". That line of thinking itself isn't necessarily scummy (I believe I defended you on this earlier), but when both of those players turn out to be confirmed as non-mafia, it definitely raises the question of your motivations there.

[GreyICE]

What's his roleclaim?



Post Restriction: If someone is at L-1 must hammer in the scummiest manner possible. May not ever explain hammers or actions in the thread. Must claim utter nonsense and herp about if accused.

[ToastyToast]

Does

ex

-lover automatically mean town?

[GreyICE]

So it's a role that bodyguards non-RDC scum?

Imma gonna beat you...