Mini 1141 - Frogs Mafia 2 - GAME, SET, MATCH

[kunkstar7]

There is no need for PJ to reveal any information about his claimed shot until he plans to shoot. Nothing good can come from premature claiming there.

hopefully someone else can dig up the evidence on em, cos i cant be arsed atm

If you can't even summarize why you think they are scum, and are asking someone else to find the information for you, how in the hell can you make the judgment that they are scum?

Good flips right now:
Truant
Mozamis
OGML (now tied to mozamis considering previously noted connection. I want to see mozamis flip first.)

[Shanba]

Vote Count:
3: MrBuddyLee

(nopointinactingup, Truant, mozamis)

3: Meransiel

(scotmany12, implosion, Amrun)

2: mozamis

(OhGodMyLife, petroleumjelly)

2: Truant

(BlenBlen, kunkstar7)

1: OhGodMyLife

(MrBuddyLee)

1: petroleumjelly

(Meransiel)
Not Voting:

Tuncali

The following people have not posted in 48 hours and will be prodded: OhGodMyLife, Tuncali, BlenBlen, Truant

[MrBuddyLee]

Check out that huge post from Buddy Lee. He pretty much fingers everyone in the joint.

I assume what you're saying is that you have several more town reads than I do at this point. That's nice. If you'd like to attack some specific analyses of mine for specific reasons, please feel free to do so. That's how we catch scum up in hurr. In particular, is anything wrong with my comments on you, Meransiel, OGML or Truant, the four people I see as scummiest right now?


Also, your persuasive technique needs work:

this is a completely moronic post

After reading your recent spate of posts, I had to go back to see whether you're always this awful. Found this:

Fucking IDIOTS. I DONT KNOW WHO IS SCUM YET. ANYONE WHO IS CERTAIN IS A DICKWAD OR SCUM.
USE YOUR FUCKING BRAINS.

That behavior got you lynched as scum. You've been lynched/killed D1/D2 in pretty much every game you've been in, eh?
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=16453 lynched as town, D2
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16416 serial killed N2
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16769 lynched D1 as scum


Not surprising.

This isn't a newbie game, but I'm going to treat you like a newbie/sociopath. If your goal is to persuade town that your scumreads are actually scum, insulting people is probably not the best way to go about it. Make some cogent arguments. Control your anger/frustration. Point us to some scum--scumpartners will be accepted. Use specifics, not generalities.

So I understand your case on me. I'm pointing out possible scumminess in too many players. Why's scotmany scum? You haven't provided a solitary ounce of evidence, and this isn't the random voting stage.

[Tuncali]

I am having a lot of trouble with the somewhat bullying behaviour that mozamis is using. I do not like his tone, and mozamis, I think you would do better to lower your aggression and make more logical arguments. I do not know if you are doing this because you are a mafia or because you are unaware of how to best make a convincing argument.

For my part, I am going to go with a vote on petroleumjelly for the time being. I think he is trying to take charge of the group of people here, and use his status to push his will on all of us. VOTE: petroleumjelly

[Amrun]

Why am I not surprised by that meta on mozamis?

p-edit: Why are you voting for pj? "His status?"

[MrBuddyLee]

Tuncali, do you understand that petroleumjelly is essentially claiming to be a vigilante, a role that is most often town? He claims to be trying to extract better behavior from this town by threatening slackers with immediate death by vigilante kill if they do not comply.

Do you have a problem with him demanding better behavior from town?

Or do you suspect that petroleumjelly is faking his vigilante claim? Or do you think he is a vigilante that is not town?

Because if you think he is a town vigilante, but you are still voting for him, then you are scum.

[Amrun]

Post #230 sounds a bit like coaching.

[kunkstar7]

Post #231 sounds like empty implications.

Do explain how #230 sounds like coaching?

[Amrun]

Because if you think he is a town vigilante, but you are still voting for him, then you are scum.

Mostly because of this.

He asked Tuncali questions and then told him how to answer to avoid suspicion.

[Tuncali]

MrBuddyLee, I do not know what petroleumjelly's role may or may not be. I know only what I see from the reading of his words, and what I see does not impress me. I am not liking his trying to control what we say or do. I know what the vigilante role is, but am not in a position to try and divine what his alignment may or may not be. Do you know for certain that he is a vigilante or even further that he is a town vigilante? If you do, then please explain to the rest of us. I do not like his threats and commanding style. I have my vote and I am entitled to use it as I see fit. I certainly am not tied to the vote and if I see something that makes me change my mind I will do so, but for now my vote remains on petroleumjelly.

[Truant]

Sorry for my absence, last two days have been nuts Get a post up probably in about 10-12 hours.

[MrBuddyLee]

MrBuddyLee, I do not know what petroleumjelly's role may or may not be. I know only what I see from the reading of his words, and what I see does not impress me. I am not liking his trying to control what we say or do. I know what the vigilante role is, but am not in a position to try and divine what his alignment may or may not be. Do you know for certain that he is a vigilante or even further that he is a town vigilante? If you do, then please explain to the rest of us. I do not like his threats and commanding style. I have my vote and I am entitled to use it as I see fit. I certainly am not tied to the vote and if I see something that makes me change my mind I will do so, but for now my vote remains on petroleumjelly.

That's one way to play it.

A common way to play it is to assume the claimed vigilante is a vigilante, and then see if they kill someone. If they don't kill, you have a good reason to pursue suspicion of them. If they kill someone, then you can decide whether the kill is pro-town or not.

The advantage to the "common" way to play is that you don't waste much time pursuing town vigs instead of pursuing scum. You will have to figure out the odds for yourself.

Post #230 sounds a bit like coaching.

Take a gander at Tuncali's post history and let me know if you still have a problem with me "coaching" him. Also, why didn't my last post to mozamis bother you? There was arguably more coaching in that.

[Amrun]

Oatmeal chocolate chip, please.

mozamis, if you have a problem with authority, please don't take it out on us. Go shoplift a Coke and Cheetos from a 7-11, then come back and give us some answers.

Did you mean this post?

I took it as a joke, and I didn't think your pressure on mozamis lined up with coaching.

It isn't the same with Tuncali.

[petroleumjelly]

Hours Until Eligible for Being DayVigged

1.)

OhGodMyLife: Approximately 16 hours

2.)

BlenBlen: Approximately 28 hours

If Truant doesn’t post content as promised, he is susceptible to being added to the Eligibility List, given that his last substantive post was on Sunday.

[MrBuddyLee]

Did you mean this post?

No, this one. I coached mozamis too but that didn't seem to bother you.

This isn't a newbie game, but I'm going to treat you like a newbie/sociopath. If your goal is to persuade town that your scumreads are actually scum, insulting people is probably not the best way to go about it. Make some cogent arguments. Control your anger/frustration. Point us to some scum--scumpartners will be accepted. Use specifics, not generalities.

Amrun, what's your read on Tuncali?

[Amrun]

That was coaching, but it's more like ... general advice. It all boils down to this: scumhunt. That's advice for anyone you'd get anywhere on this forum.

The other advice was so specific, so extremely specific, that it stuck out to me.

But now that you've pointed it out yourself, which I'm not sure why you'd do, also coaching super-scummy mozamis doesn't help me get a townread on you.


I actually have an insubstantial read on Tuncali at this point. Newbtown, so far, but how do you read someone so very green? I need to start seeing some actual content from him soon or he will begin to move into the "active lurking" category, though.

[MrBuddyLee]

I actually have an insubstantial read on Tuncali at this point. Newbtown, so far, but how do you read someone so very green?

Same here, which is why I checked his post history and decided to give him a chunk of advice on how to handle vig claims. Worst case scenario, I just helped a noobscum escape from a terrible blunder. Best case scenario, he has a new town tool for dealing with vig claims, and can consider moving his vote somewhere more practical.

Basically, I'd like this game to move past the wtf phase.

Who do you guys think petroleumjelly should vig today? Maybe if we ask nicely, he'll handle it democratically.

[Amrun]

It was just the last sentence I had a problem with. It would have seemed less "WTF just happened" if you hadn't TOLD HIM THE CORRECT ANSWER, and instead had asked questions to provoke thought.

If we're picking who he should vig, I say mozamis.

[petroleumjelly]

Who do you guys think petroleumjelly should vig today? Maybe if we ask nicely, he'll handle it democratically.

Oh, MrBuddyLee! You just can't pass up a joke, can you?

~

Really displeased with this game, because it almost feels like I joined a Newbie Game at this point. I've debated on whether or not I should even bother to "explain why I claimed" (because I am certainly

not

in an "IC" mood, especially when the benefits of my claim are patently obvious), but I decided I will at least say this:

I claimed my role because I was already going to

use

my role today at some point anyways -- which is effectively the same as claiming, since I have to post my kill in-thread. And if I know that I am going to claim my role, I might as well use it while I'm alive as leverage to get players to post content. Don't like it? Tough noogies. You're not the one with the DayVig ability.

Of those who have voted or claimed to suspect me for my "bullying," I haven't seen anybody put forth even the barest suggestion that I am being

scummy

. Similarly, "controlling the Town" is not scummy; at best, it's a lazy label.

In any case, I am not "controlling the Town" because I am not telling people (i) what to think or (ii) who to vote. Rather, I am trying to get people to think for themselves, and to explain what they think in-thread. Forcing scum to explain suspicions that don't really exist tends to (surprisingly) be a good way to catch scum. I am basically using my role as if I am an aggressive Moderator who demands activity from his players.

[mozamis]

oh, buddy lee looking scummier. dragging up an old post (for which i got warned by a mod). Thats nice of him lol
desperate behaviour from scum. No way a townie would be this manipulative. "Oh look at Mozamis nasty posts in another game, peeps! He must be scum in this one"!

[MrBuddyLee]

Actually, that's not what I was trying to accomplish with that post. I was trying to get you to quit calling people morons if you're town. Make some cases and quit avoiding questions.

So I understand your case on me. I'm pointing out possible scumminess in too many players. Why's scotmany scum? You haven't provided a solitary ounce of evidence, and this isn't the random voting stage.

[nopointinactingup]

...
MrBuddyLee was pretty clearly joking when he said his predecessor was scummy. It literally would only make sense for scum to say that if they read their predecessor's posts and thought "dear God, this guy was scummy."

Regardless, that isn't even applicable to this situation. MBL's opening post was clearly a joke, which is evident by the fact that his predecessor hadn't posted at all. nopoints scumtell has no reason to be applied in this situation.

He was not joking. He said so himself. You guys are the ones who's reading me wrong. My main point doesn't lie within the fact that he criticized his predeccessor, but rather that he's lying and making up stuff to fill his lies. My initial comment was essentially meant to pressure.

You are basically accusing somebody of replacing in,

not reading their predecessor's posts

, and yet (without actually knowing if their predecessor was scummy) saying that their predecessor was scummy. The

reasoning

behind your "scum-tell" of calling your predecessor "scummy" is

not applicable

to this game precisely because MrBuddyLee's predecessor was not scummy because he never posted; therefore, there is no reason for MrBuddyLee to compensate for Magnetic's play.

I agree, though you seem to have mistaken me with Truant.

* nopointactingup used MBL as an excuse not to vote the obvious scumpartners M&M. This is weak protection of Meransiel and mozamis by nopoint.

LOL they ( especially moz ) gonna get the rope after you so don't you worry for your partners. Good distancing I must say.

Mr Buddy lee, you are completely right. I should have moved my vote of PJ onto you sooner.
Apologies.

UNVOTE VOTE MR BUDDY LEE

AND here we have our winning reciprocal distancing!

If his post history was what you looked into then why does he look like "obvious scum" and not "obvious cheater".

Because it's funny to call someone obvious scum when they haven't posted at all yet. It's even funnier if you can trick people into knee-jerk responding that you're obvious scum for "defending your predecessor". It's even funnier if those knee-jerkers turn out to be scum in the end. *crosses fingers*

Nice attempt at ad hom and straw manning almost all of my case out of your replies.
How bout you reply to this
-->

Stop lying. You retract your statement apx 10 hours after you made your so called "gambit to see who's paying attention". If it was really a gambit, why would you reveal it right when only about 3 people have seen it. Sounds to me like you making justifications for your sorry self.

If you do not explain, I will DayVig you.

What the actual fuck?!

Unvote

Vote: petroleumjelly

Vote will be removed when you explain what the hell you did there.

Lol Wut? Why the vote? ( Oh shit he's DayVig, get rid of him, GET RID OF HIM .. *subconciously votes* ... )

"Mafias" begin with Ms, put 'em on the rope.

[Meransiel]

Why would a lynchee be announced? That makes no sense.

Way to dodge the point.

Also your insults have been noted. Scum tactics 101.

And so, the Scum tactics 101 received another entry. Number of total entries: 1.

@petro, I'm still demanding to know why the hell you claimed vig.

And I don't care. I know what I'm doing, and why I'm doing it.

Very well, then. Wanna make a deal?

@Mer: I win when all the scum are dead. I think you are the most likely to be scum. So i'm going to vote for you. And how have my attempts to touch on the suspicions of others seem intentionally weak? You seem to throw around a lot of accusations against me, but you never explain them. And when I asked you to explain how most of my posts were just agreeing and disagreeing with each other, you quote two posts, don't elaborate on them at all, and say that I don't have a lot of posts to quote. So were you just lying when you initially said all I have been doing was agreeing and disagreeing with people?

And you are voting for someone who just claimed to have the ability to dayvig. An action which can be confirmed. Why would you ever do such a thing as town?

I'm inclined to believed PJ at the moment. I was a oneshot dayvig in frogs 1.

Please tell me who else you have accused, and yes, I am talking about people you built cases on in more than a single post.

we need an answer PJ as to why/if you have claimed vig. Saying "i dont care" is unhelpful to town.

No, it isn't, it's completely null. I'm inclined to believe he is, in fact, dayvig (especially since he claimed without even being under pressure, which, even though is weird as hell and WILL get him killed, is not a scum move).

The only issue is the incredibly stupid way he is going to abuse his power (made obvious by himself, really). I am actually 90% sure he will kill 2 townies in a row, maybe even more.

To answer your question: I havent seen anything scummy from Meransiel.

This will probably get me lynched, but whatever: moz, I kind of have been pretty scummy...not on purpose, just because I wasn't careful enough with my posts. There's no way in hell anybody could be able to say what you just said without some prior, PR information.

Please explain, for your own sake.

...There were two other questions for you to answer Mozamis. You totally just avoided answer why you think both pj and MBL are scum. Again.

+everything else scots attacked mozamis with

Are you just now trying to prove you're not tunneling on me? Cause it isn't the best attempt ever.

Meransiel, so are you not attacking mozamis because mozamis is defending you? How does mozamis defending you, in any way, make mozamis look like town to you?

Pay some attention, please. I don't think mozamis is town. I just don't want to risk any game-related side effect of him getting killed. I said that already in an earlier post.

Good flips right now:
Truant
Mozamis
OGML (now tied to mozamis considering previously noted connection. I want to see mozamis flip first.)

Why would Truant be a good flip?

Tuncali, do you understand that petroleumjelly is essentially claiming to be a vigilante, a role that is most often town? He claims to be trying to extract better behavior from this town by threatening slackers with immediate death by vigilante kill if they do not comply.

Do you have a problem with him demanding better behavior from town?

Or do you suspect that petroleumjelly is faking his vigilante claim? Or do you think he is a vigilante that is not town?

Because if you think he is a town vigilante, but you are still voting for him, then you are scum.

Nah. Votes have uses other than hammering. Pj acts as if he's ze leadorz, and provided he really is dvig, this could go horribly wrong - a couple of votes on him should convince him to lose a bit of pride and be a team player.

Because if you think he is a town vigilante, but you are still voting for him, then you are scum.

Mostly because of this.

He asked Tuncali questions and then told him how to answer to avoid suspicion.

That's the smartest point made so far. Not the best one, not the most consistent one, just really cunning. I think a scum would be more likely to come up with this...so, Amrun, up my reads ...

Hours Until Eligible for Being DayVigged

1.)

OhGodMyLife: Approximately 16 hours

2.)

BlenBlen: Approximately 28 hours

If Truant doesn’t post content as promised, he is susceptible to being added to the Eligibility List, given that his last substantive post was on Sunday.

Stop. Doing. That. It's not helping anybody.

I claimed my role because I was already going to

use

my role today at some point anyways -- which is effectively the same as claiming, since I have to post my kill in-thread.

Oh, already going to use your vote today? Wow, this is SO going to end in a mafia lynch (extreme sarcasm).

I just pray to God you're one-shot. If that's the case, at least it will be one-for-one: one dead townie, one confirmed townie player. And that's the BEST case scenario I can think of.

If you do not explain, I will DayVig you.

What the actual fuck?!

Unvote

Vote: petroleumjelly

Vote will be removed when you explain what the hell you did there.

Lol Wut? Why the vote? ( Oh shit he's DayVig, get rid of him, GET RID OF HIM .. *subconciously votes* ... )

"Mafias" begin with Ms, put 'em on the rope.

Oh, dude, beneficial or not, and though I won't even try to push it...when you die, I will be so happy...

[scotmany12]

I never once said I wasn't tunneling on you mer. I admit that I am slightly am. But i'm pretty sure I accused both mozamis and nopoint. I'm not going to bother making a case on them when I'm not pushing for their lynches. It's not beneficial to have everyone say all their reads. We don't want to give the scum more information than they already have. Them knowing who everyone thinks is scum or not makes it pretty easy on them when nightkilling and pushing for a lynch. And you ignored what I said. Your case has changed to me agreeing and disagreeing with people, to me tunneling on you. You still haven't explained the two posts of mine you quoted in your last post.

And you admit to voting for someone you believe to be the dayvig. You are voting for someone you think is town. Only people who do that are scum.

@moz: what is your infatuation with ignoring posts?

Moz: Why did you just ignore both implosion and me asking you to point out where MBL is flailing around?

And I have a hard time believing you forgot those two questions. They were just repeated on the last page. So are you not reading the game? Even if you did forget, wouldn't you then go back and see what the questions were? Don't try to say you only thought one question was posed at you.

Respond to that. Now. Where is MBL flailing around? And respond to the latter part as well.

He was not joking. He said so himself. You guys are the ones who's reading me wrong. My main point doesn't lie within the fact that he criticized his predeccessor, but rather that he's lying and making up stuff to fill his lies. My initial comment was essentially meant to pressure.

Point out where MBL has lied.

I'm not sure what to think of MBL's coaching. I'm more concerned with his coaching of Mozamis, because he seems pretty sure that Moz is scum.

[Meransiel]

Those posts were proof of you just agreeing and disagreeing with others. All other posts were purely accusations on me at that point (and even later on), pointing out tunneling. By the way, if memory serves, your case on nopoint was quite weak.

And why would it be so bad not to give all reads? Both the mafia AND the town will have access to more information, and I do believe the town can benefit more from it.

Also, if you really think only scum vote for claiming vigs, why don't you ask petro to kill me. Actually, no, do it, I dare you.