Road to Wrestlemania: Game over - WWF wins - BANG BANG!

[Empking]

bristep: I'm scummy because we have different opinions. (DDD is still scum for his refusal to nameclaim, IMO.)

[Nero Cain]

"I'm going to go with chesskid's gut, if nothing else if he's wrong it gives us a reference point any time he tries to insist his reads are good."

[VP Baltar]

@sottyrulez - what confuses me then is how you have a town read based on vezok's results bungling and yet you expect DDD not to have a town read. Why couldn't he read it the same way you did? He's required to OMGUS?

@Vas - my concern is that Kise was actually the mafia killer last night and was jailkept or something. If that was the case and he kept quiet, he'd look suspicious, right? So, maybe he starts the day and says 'I was beat up and survived because I must have been the stopped scum kill'. Think about it for a minute though. When a player is protected by the doctor, are they usually told that? The answer is no because then you are giving people a chance to confirm themselves as town once the doc claims. Unless kise is UNK or something, I am highly suspicious of him claiming to survive the scumkill and be told about it. Full GMan review today.

Why are people voting EA over 'chesskid's gut'...that makes me nervous. you either find him scummy or you don't. Don't put it on chesskid and then later if it's a mislynch say 'not my fault'.

[Kublai Khan]

Why not? It works for Internet Stranger. Apparently "chesskid3's gut" is going to be a valid site meta at some point. I'm going to start using it in games he's not even in.

[VP Baltar]

Everyone that voted for chesskid's gut either needs to explain why they find EA scummy or I'm leaving the wagon.

[Internet Stranger]

WTF? My vote has NOTHING to do with Cheaskid. I laid out several arguments for Erratus and even pointed out how his bar room tough guy bravado defense really is. Only two people are going by Chesskid's guy, and one is Chesskid, who only says that to hide his scumreads.

The quuestion remains, why aren't YOU checking out Erratus? Why aren't YOU forming an opinion on him. Why are YOU avoiding the subject.

I laid it out for everyone. If he guilty, say so, if he isn't then refute my statements. Tell us why he is innocent. The truth is that you can't . Erratus is a sacumbag.

[Lowell]

From the top of the ropes:

page 1- plan develops to take ppl out in order, much confusion
page 2- VP complains about plan, wants more control
page 3- chess and jason argue over tactics, bitchslap each other
page 4- VP wants to eliminate "erratic" players, gives a list
page 5- slow elimination of players
page 6- more belt discussion
page 7- ditto
page 8- consensus emerges to just get to real game, votes pile in
page 9-22- slow battle ensues
539- DDD wins the belt!
550s- early wagon on chess for voting "town" out of of belt competition [-, don't understand this]
577- thor takes chess' side, wagon fizzles
673- babyspice, nero lead w/ 3 votes
751- babyspice gets a little angry [-]
754- erratus votes scott for lurking after promising action [+]
755- baby leads w/ 4 votes
774- horribly post by trendall, says all are town, no reads
776- primate has strange reaction to Trendall's horrible post [-]
789- nero doesn't like snake case, askes for different case [-, diversion]
800- trendall leads w/ 5 votes
825- trendall leads w/ 7 votes, scott second with 6
851- trendall up to 9 votes, no other serious wagon emerges

someone post, please. I have more.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

post.

[Lowell]

854- vas, vez, chess, and lowell not liking the trendall wagon
855- VP explains the trendall wagon: "appeasing" [+, points for stepping up, even if wrong]
926- VP complains lack of focus on wagons, says all should be voting trendall, scott, or thor [-]
955- erra votes furc [-, don't like the timing, right after chess called out furc: looks like opportunism and vote-wasting at deadline]
963- prim endorses trendwagon, wants claim
966- scott and bristep join trendwagon
967- trend leads w/ 11 votes
988- sotty notices snake as possible scum [+, new ideas!]
1006- bristep panics [-]
1078- IS hammers trendall
1081- IS defends vote/apologizes/blames someone else [---, before flip?]
1085- nero points out horribleness of 1081
1103- trendall, thor die
1105- kise claims being targetted, votes IS
1108- baby votes lowell for attacking "obvtown" thor [-, hindsight to justify vote]
1140s- IS/DDD argue over rolenames
1161- sotty continues attacks on snake
1180s- chess and IS lead the DDD wagon; DDD refuses to nameclaim
1215- vezo claims "information cop"
1278- snake, SK, killed by jason, kami/vig
1293- vezo finishes claim, explains targetting DDD [+, makes sense]
1370s- SK/setup discussion [-, pointless]
1396- IS leads w/ 7 votes, EA has 5, GMan 3
1404- nero explains Scott case [+, exactly!]

Thanks, DDD, one more please

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

post.

[Lowell]

piledrive Scott Brosius

. I agree completely with Nero's case. Beyond that, I don't think scott has ever even tried to live up to what he promised from the beginning. I get the sense that he's limping through because he thinks he can.

Menacing FOS Erratus

. This one is largely on gut, but among the three leading wagons this is the one I'd prefer.

"Come Hither" FOS Baby Spice

. Early on she was strangely defensive about her behavior (the only I can find offhand is 751, but there are others around that time), and her "obvtown" comment in 1108 makes no sense based on her previous comments, and looks more like she just wants an opportunistic reason to cast a vote. overall she's too defensive and erratic, which spells scum.

"You're Next" FOS InternetStranger

. I'm actually becoming a fan of his more recent play over the past few pages, but I just cannot get over post 1081. I've never been town and apologized for a hammer BEFORE a reveal... this suggests a guilty conscience. Either he knew the flip would be town, or he was twitchy for some other reason. Either is bad.

...again DDD...

[chesskid3]

why is this scott bro wagon startnig up to derail the Erratus wagon
GEE I WONDER WHICH IS TOWN AND WHICH IS SCUM

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

post.

[Lowell]

Some ObvTown Players

:

chess

is town. Reading through in one sitting, it often seems like he's the only one paying attention.

vez

is town. While his role seems useless, I can't imagine it's a fabrication.

sotty

is town. In ISO he's

shockingly

prescient about snake. He started, pushed, carried, and sweated for the snake-wagon that eventually led to his horribly graphic explosion.

Yay finally caught up! More tonight, hopefully.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

NC is town; Kise is town; VPB is town; KK is town

I can’t read IS because I don’t know how much of everything he does is meta, but despite the fact that I think it’s a town originated wagon I don’t really care for it.

I also tend to think EA is town, he's getting emotional and annoyed at his wagon and IS; I think those are far more natural reactions from town than from scum.

SB’s 1414 response to KK is completely incoherent and I can make heads or tails of it.

Empking is scum; Gman is still scum; Baby Spice went into hardcore lurk mode after day one and is probably scum.

[chesskid3]

hmm

[Internet Stranger]

I NEVER apologized for hammering Trendall. I explained what I was going to do and I did it. Chesskid essentially called me out to do it, so I did it.

Is that an apology? Hell no.
Was Trendall one of my scumreads? No, it wasnt.
But he was someone's read. In fact, he had 13 people who clearly thought he was scum, right? My hammer has no more weight than the other 10-12 whatever votes were on the wagon. It has no more weight than Chesskids vote or random vote #6. In fact, according to the list Erratus voted for Trendall right before Chesskid. If anything, that is even MORE suspicious than my silly hammer.

If youre going to scrutinize the hammer, why not go down the list and ask everyone else why they voted for Trendall in the first place. I suggest we start with Erratus. Hey Erratus, just why exactly did you vote for Trendall, anyways?

Oh wait, I know! Erratus Post #1065

Wow Erratus, you sure havent mentioned this in all those suddenly-appearing-new-posts-with-content that youre using to come after me. Why is that Erratus, WHY IS THAT?

[chesskid3]

I wanted d1 over so yeah
I used IS
lol
I'm baddddd

[VP Baltar]

Ok Vas, gave it a close reread and here is my feeling on the specific points:

Point 1: GMan doesn't follow DDD's plan even though he agrees with it - Semi-valid, but I could see town misreading it if they were in a hurry. Hard to say what is the actual case in this instance. Timestamps do seem to indicate it is possible he was tired.

Point 2: Gman agrees with thor, then votes thor - This is the strongest point of the case and definitely stands out to me as something legitimately scummy.

Point 3: Gman has contradictory stances on OMGUS - I've addressed this already. This is probably the weakest point you made.

It's an okay case overall. I would actually like Gman to explain his thought process on point 2 very thoroughly so I can understand why he voted Thor there.

[chesskid3]

Gman and Vas are both town
sorry Vas <3

Erratus is probably still scum but I hadn't been reading his posts post gut-scumread.
then again
he went after me early and had a very SCREEEEEEEEECHING retreat after like it was obvious everyone knew i was towntowntown
so
>_>
this better not be gandalf/dizzy in defcon all over again >_>

[sottyrulez]

IS,

the fact that you turn to Erratus only after you start catching heat is extremely suspicious to me. People start to wagon you and then you throw out two names who are playing badly according to you. Statements like:

“Anyways, I went through and ISO'ed some people. Are you all trying to tell me that the play of Erratus and Empking is somehow better?”

And

“So why are Erratus and EMpking getting passes and im getting the whipping stick?”

Don't strike me as genuine scum hunting attempts, more like you scrambling to point the horde in a direction that isn't you.

Do you think Nero is scum, if so why did you not push a case on him? I'm starting to think this act with Erratus is a really poor attempt at distancing.

VP,

when someone comes out with role information on you that is false why would you think that person is town right away? You keep asking us basically the same question in different ways, are you expecting our answer to change?

[Internet Stranger]

Sotty, who were the people I was going after before?

Thor? (he is DEAD),
DDD (based on a now defunct investigation)
Jason? (Also DEAD)
Snake? (Extremely short lived, Jason took him out)

I think Nero is crazy and misguided, but damn, why would a scum in their right mind try to come after me 1 on 1 knowing all the heat that I would send back their way? Nero may have brass balls, Nero may be completely wrong, but would a scum want to attract so much attention to themselves? If he keeps it up though, it will become WIFOM and if I cant find any other scum like Erratus and Empking, I will have to scrutinize Nero even further.

So to answer yet another question from you Sotty, I ran out of suspects. I had to go look for new ones.
Will you vote for Erratus now Sotty, or do I need to come up with even MORE reasons for you?

hmm, is there a reason why YOU wont vote for Erratus Sotty? Whats stopping you?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Sotty/Zach; I laid out my thought process on Vezo briefly in 1400 what part of that is wrong? You keep blithely asserting I should've behaved a certain way when it cuts against both my experience and basic intuition so please show me exactly where my thought process was flawed.

[sottyrulez]

“hmm, is there a reason why YOU wont vote for Erratus Sotty? Whats stopping you?”

You're scummier, we have detailed why. This wagon on EA seems like a poor scramble organized by you that other players are jumping all over for whatever reason. EA didn't help himself with initial defense, but I'm not sold by this case at all. It's all too convenient.

I was under the impression you found Nero scummy but you said you don't. I will have to look back and see where I got that from. I felt that you were opting for the easier wagon when you plucked EA out of nowhere when you were sparring with Nero.

Triple D,

it's the lack of reaction feels wrong, probably the best way to say it. The explanation and the logic you have given are satisfactory even if we don't agree. We still don't like the refusal to name claim, but the pressure's not there, and you're not going to change your so there's little point continuing to push it for now. You no sold everything then refused to name claim when there was no good reason not too, considering your situation. These little things add up.

[Internet Stranger]

Sotty, I OMGUS'ed Nero a hell of a bunch of times, especially during RVS since I had nothing else to go with. Do you expect me to tunnel away at him even if I dont think he is Public Scum #1? Wouldnt doing that in turn make me look scummy?

I did pluck out EA out of the air. I was all ready to start going after Snake based on what was being said. But after Snake died, I ran out of suspects (see above) and started ISO'ing people looking for new scum. EA and Empking are just sitting there looking so obviously scummy that it hurts that no one else sees it because im the one pointing it out.

So Sotty, are you saying that you actually do think that EA is scummy, but somehow im MORE scummy? Do we have two scum factions all of a sudden? We cant both be scummy, otherwise why the hell would I fake pick my partner out on Day 2 and start bussing the living hell out of him? One of us is clearly town and the other one is pure vilified scum. (Answer: IS is town, EA is scum).