Mini 1141 - Frogs Mafia 2 - GAME, SET, MATCH

[Meransiel]

Vote: OhGodMyLife

He's too excited.

[Meransiel]

mozamis, did you just ask someone to claim this early in the game? It doesn't feel right...

Unvote

Vote: mozamis

[Meransiel]

Damn, these misspells and the misunderstandings they cause.

4.)Tuncali has no idea how this game is played as long as he points out the "Cop" thing before ANY NIGHT PHASE EVER PASSED. In short, it's too pathetic to deserve a vote.

[Meransiel]

Actually

, no.

Because this is a

themed game

, it is actually possible for me to have information relating to BlenBlen. Which is one reason why -- rather than assuming Tuncali "has no idea how this game is played," as you claim -- I asked him his level of experience.

5.)

I find it curious that you suggesting somebody with a join date of Janaury 17, 2011 has "no idea how the game is played" when your own join date is March 5, 2011 (i.e. nine days ago). Can I take it you're an alt / otherwise experienced, then?

I really call them as I see them, really. I mean, I'm playing a newbie game right now and most people, though just as new as me, seem more experienced than that guy.

[Meransiel]

Actually, no.

Because this is a themed game, it is actually possible for me to have information relating to BlenBlen. Which is one reason why -- rather than assuming Tuncali "has no idea how this game is played," as you claim -- I asked him his level of experience.

Actually see rule 2?

Anyway I'd like to think that someone postulating that you might be a cop with a night 0 investigation and with the ability to share your results in night 0 is probably very new. Didn't make it any less amusing to read tho

You seem to be discounting Day Roles, as well as roles that start the game with information. But that is neither here nor there.

Amrun, I would like four votes for the following four reasons:

1.)

mozamis

2.)

BlenBlen

3.)

Tuncali

4.)

To badger non-posters (currently Magnetic & ender241)

modedit: quote tags fixed

It's not exactly wise to do that. Lurkers are likely scum, but people that don't post at all can't be scum.

[Meransiel]

It's not exactly wise to do that. Lurkers are likely scum, but people that don't post at all can't be scum.

And do you have anything to back up this claim of yours?

Logic, mostly. Voting for someone that is completely absent is equivalent to picking at random. So the chance of him being town is 13-x out of 13, x being the number of non-townies. And that's high, at least until day 3.

[Meransiel]

@Meransiel: Kinda what Tuncali said, why are you defending somebody that has probably ~1/4 chance of being scum when you have nothing to prove that he's pro-town?

Because everyone has a right to defend himself. At least, day 1-wise. You don't vote on people that don't post, you ask the mod to prod them and get them replaced. Until that happens, voting for them means voting at random. And that's fairly anti-town (though unavoidable in some cases).

As such, I won't vote for someone that never posted. I suggest you don't rush with that yourself.

@mozamis: your avi is annoying.

[Meransiel]

And yes, that means I'll probably unvote.

[Meransiel]

I don't know yet, that's the problem, most people seem neutral (though honestly I'm not getting town reads either). Yes, that includes ender and Tuncali.

I'll keep my vote on moz (who does seem a bit too clean and cautious - more gut than logic here, but meh) until a better choice arises.

[Meransiel]

No, but people DO tend to jump on wagons if the accused is flaking or passive lurking. And by people, I mean both mafia and pro-town. Patience is all I ask.

[Meransiel]

I'll read through properly later and try and get some scumhunting going.
But just a question relating to theme games -do we say what animal we are, or does that give a clue as to our alignment? Do we roleplay at all, or is that not relevant?

Roleplaying animals? Sorry, the closest I've ever been to that was a druid that could become half cougar (yes, he was also immortal and yes, he could reincarnate - I'm overpowered mike that). But the point is, it would be boring.

Yeah, I believe it's commonly referred to as IIoA.

Unvote
Vote: Meransiel

Given there's absolutely no analysis involved, information is the best we've got when speaking of people that don't post.

[Meransiel]

Petro, you change your vote way too often. I'm not suspecting you or anything, it's just a risky thing to do.

[Meransiel]

Cause it's weird. And usually a scum tell.

[Meransiel]

Because it was the first scumtell he presented. As such, it doesn't exactly add up.

[Meransiel]

When somebody posts like 7 times per page and only 1 of his posts is even remotely scummy, I tend to not really give a damn.

[Meransiel]

Just a warning that I might go on V/LA this weekend. Not yet, but this weekend.

I think I will, but I will try to post. I just can't be relied upon.

It's my 21st birthday tomorrow. Haha.

This

could

be code. Hmm...keeping my eyes on ye...

@Blenblen: You're so...so...partially right .

[Meransiel]

VERY happy with where my vote is at (Meransiel) due to the rolefishing that just went on in 79. Yay for IIoA, defending a scum-lurker-buddy (most likely) and rolefishing within the first 4 pages of a mini theme. I don't know if this could get any easier.

@Blen: What problems are you referring to? Why are problems worthy of a vote?

Mafia is never easy. And you're jumping to conclusions like a monk in a roofless maze.

By the way, he is flaking, not lurking. Huge difference.

@Amrun: You can use something like that to make up an uncrackable code, also, the weird phrasing, also, the repetition of "weekend".

[Meransiel]

Yeah, some stuff boggles the mind .

[Meransiel]

Then why don't you thank me, man?

[Meransiel]

What other conclusions should I draw from your actions? You're a townie that wants to help scum as much as possible?

Maybe you are drawing too many conclusions from his actions.

Thanks.

@scotmany, what are you thoughts on moz? What do you make of moz and meransiel's interactions?

Moz is all over the place, and isn't a bad place to put a vote. As far as meransiel and moz go, I can see them being scum together. Him say he would probably unvote him, then leaving his vote on him two hours after that (using gut as his justification) is strange.

Oh, and Meransiel accusing Amrun of posting in code is ludicrous.

Hey, anything is possible.

You guys I'm totally zonked on Nyquil and should have fallen asleep like an hour ago but doesn't this just seem really.. obvious? I mean. So obvious. Moz and meransiel. Everyone weigh in on them. Is there something funky going on here or what?

Psst blenblen try again, calling their posts fluff is itself more fluffy than their posts.

I'm starting to get pro-town reads from you, that post is really rational.

Meransiel, in my opinion, was making a "policy" argument; which almost by definition is not going to contain an "analysis" on players. My problems with his posts, on the other hand, are (i) I don't think the policy is applicable a few days after a game starts, and (ii) I think Meransiel was using the argument to make himself look Town by talking of justice and fairness.

Not exactly, no. If I was mafia, keeping my head low and voting for someone who is defenseless would be the most pro-town thing to do. By defending a flaker, I'm not making myself a favor, I'm putting myself at risk. You're jumping to conclusions, as I have said.

@Truant post 95: All that you have said can be invalidated by me PMing a single thing to the mod. Why so much pressure AGAINST something so easy to do? Because I COULD be in team with the guy and replacing him COULD strengthen the mafia? Sorry, but the alternatives are far easier to believe.

As such, I'll kindly ask the mod to prod.

[Meransiel]

I read the thread.

Unvote, Vote: Meransiel.

To put it simply, nothing Meransiel says has any logic.

Lurkers are likely scum, but people that don't post at all

can't be scum.

Strange thing to say, could be covering up for a scumbuddy who isn't posting - more importantly, though, it makes no logical sense.

It was a probable certainty, not an absolute one. Voting for someone who has a 25% chance of being scum, not increased or decreased by any factors, is

worse

than RVS.

Petro, you change your vote way too often. I'm not suspecting you or anything, it's just a risky thing to do.

Cause it's weird. And usually a scum tell.

I get that you aren't voting on this because you think pj is more town overall - but how is it relevant (or what do you mean) when you say that changing one's vote is "risky" or "weird?" It's day one, with 7 to lynch... I don't see how it's risky, at all, to change votes. In fact, I don't see why you would be concerned with something being "risky" in this way... the only way I can think of it being risky would be for mafia who want to avoid looking scummy. could you clarify this?

I saw people die based on this reason alone. Basically, the mafia are struggling to do 2 things: be in the middle of wagons, and offend as few people as possible. Due to those reasons, they do tend to change votes a lot.

This

could

be code. Hmm...keeping my eyes on ye...

Why would you think that something like this is code? And if you're just speculating and there's no way to tell if it's really code, why bring it up at all?

Everything is speculating. Why are you bringing up that I am scum if the only way to tell is by killing me, which is defeating the purpose if I'm town?

You probably think that question is stupid and doesn't deserve an answer. Well, so is yours.

Also, Meransiel's voting pattern is really weird. RVS vote, quickly changed to a vote based on a typo... which Meransiel still hasn't changed, despite accusing multiple other players of things that could be scummy. Meransiel, do you still fos mozamis more than other people, and if not why are you still voting her? If so, why?

I found a reason or to to unvote, but not great reasons to vote someone else. Well, up to this point, now I have.

mozamis is also scummy, and they would make sense as a pair, but I'm going to stay away from pair speculation before any flips. I don't think mozamis is as scummy as Meransiel, whose contributions all lack logic and who hasn't justified his vote with anything except for gut.

Where did I say anything about gut?

Also,

Vote: scotsman12

for generally just agreeing with the most popular wagon, re-enforcing that in a way that really doesn't help discussion and all-around short posts.

[Meransiel]

Actually, I don't think I have been illogical, rather, that I have not presented situations too clearly.

[Meransiel]

Point 1: if I am oh so willing to act anti-town and not vote someone that doesn't post, why did I forfeit said advantage by asking the mod to prod him?
Point 2: I know I did not express myself very well with that post about probability. I did clarify though in later posts, check them.
Point 3: no, just as something can look scummy, something else can look like code. How am I worse from the people that bash nacho for his obviously role-impaired posts?

[Meransiel]

Point 4: I was condemning my vote in 50 with that remark. That's why I changed it to scotsman later on, anyway. I never rely on gut to effectively lynch, just had no options at that time.

[Meransiel]

Edit: ignore the nacho bit, posting on the phone, got 2 games confused.

[Meransiel]

1.)

<3 yays MBL you better not be scum <3

2.)

scotmany12, why did you accuse mozamis of voting me for a “basically OMGUS” reason? kunkstar7, why do you apparently agree with that? Seems to me like mozamis’ vote was for the reasoning behind my Meransiel vote, if anything.

3.)

Meransiel, you said here:

Point 1: if I am oh so willing to act anti-town and not vote someone that doesn't post, why did I forfeit said advantage by asking the mod to prod him?

Exactly when did you ask Shanba to prod anybody? And who did you ask to be prodded?

By the way, I would not suggest lying to me when you respond to this.

I pm'd him. You can ask him if you want. Also, that would be Magnetic.
Hmm...like most people, I agree that MrBuddyLee's opening post was scummy as hell and my vote was sitting on a player I didn't think was scum anyway, so...

Vote: MrBunnyLee

[Meransiel]

EDIT: sorry, forgot to unvote.

Unvote

Vote: MrBuddyLee

Also:
@nopointinactingup: Oh, how sweet, certain I'm scum, are ye not? Mind stating exactly why?

Also, information-wise, it would be better to vote for moz. If I die and flip town, you will get a null-town read on him so hard it will probably protect him for a day or so. But, if he flips town, it would raise suspicion on me (notice the way I'm not defending him).

[Meransiel]

humm I think maybe moz is scum and meransiel is town but I gotta think it over when I'm not so hung over.

Or we could be both innocent - possible, yes?

Also, @Meransiel:

Meransiel, do you still fos mozamis more than other people, and if not why are you still voting her? If so, why?

I found a reason or to to unvote, but not great reasons to vote someone else. Well, up to this point, now I have.

Vote: scotsman12

for generally just agreeing with the most popular wagon, re-enforcing that in a way that really doesn't help discussion and all-around short posts.

my vote was sitting on a player I didn't think was scum anyway, so...

Vote: MrBunnyLee

Were you lying when you said you had a "great reason" to change your vote from mozamis to scotsman12?

What are your exact positions on those two players?

No, I wasn't lying, his attitude looked extremely low-risk low-reward, which is inherently scummish. And, if you check the last count, the mod flat out IGNORED my vote (whatever).
But then, you came with that "looking at the oh so scummish post history of my predecessor"...and THAT got me reconsidering.

[Meransiel]

And you think we are, dude .

[Meransiel]

And you think we are, dude .

No I'm pretty sure you're town. Moz is the one I'm concerned about.

In brief, moz is defending/buddying up to you because you were taking a bunch of heat and looked like you'd possibly be lynched, and he wanted to be in the position to say "told you so" when you flipped town, or at least have you in his corner from this point on. Don't be hoodwinked.

1. I like the way you suddenly stop thinking I'm scum for a reason or another.
2. I don't trust any of you bar 1 or 2 people, and they're not moz.

[Meransiel]

It was furcolow - saying that I post illogically, if memory serves.

Though moz did kind of saved me from a tight spot, my read on him has not improved at all, if you may ask.

[Meransiel]

EDIT: save

[Meransiel]

EDIT 2: Not furcolow, petroleumjelly. Sorry.

[Meransiel]

2.)

Meransiel, when did you ask for Magnetic to be prodded? Please specify around what post in the game you asked for this prod.

Quoting anything PMed to or from the mod is forbidden, you know that.

Obvjoke is obv.

* Meransiel for unvoting mozamis so he could vote someone he doesn't think is scum, replaced by a terrible vote on MBL while avoiding a question about mozamis

I am SURE scotsman is scum, you're just an easier lynch. But JUST as scummy as he is.

Also, what question did I avoid about mozamis?

[Meransiel]

By the way, mod, can you please post a count?

[Meransiel]

1.)

Meransiel, I'm not asking you to quote anything. I am asking you at what point in the game you

sent

your PM. Specifically, I would like you to tell me around what post of the game you asked for the prod. Did you ask around Post 50? Post 75? Post 100? No quoting involved. Don't ignore this, or try to skirt it again.

I didn't try to skirt anything. I just don't see the point in telling you something you can't verify. But here: post 80, give or take.

In any case:

->

a.)

I did not vote Meransiel for “being patient.” I voted him because his post looked more like posturing than helpful. His speaking of equity and patience in the first couple page of the game – basically, saying that I should not place my single vote, incapable of lynching somebody by itself – made no sense given the surrounding circumstances, and seemed like an attempt to make himself look Town by saying something he believes will sound Townish.

->

b.)

Further, implicit in his soapbox speech was the presumption that Meransiel has played through a fair deal (or read through a fair deal) of mafia games before, because he was making generalizations about how mafia games are played. But because Meransiel had already told us that he is a new player (and was only able to call Tuncali “new” because he seemed comparatively rawer to the players in Meransiel’s sole Newbie Game), it seems inconsistent to claim to be new on one breath, but then talk as if you are a veteran on how mafia games pan out in the next breath.

No, I didn't do that. You are jut feeling like I did. That's just the way I speak most of the time.
Also, about the experience bit. I have played elsewhere, just not in mafia-oriented sites. And I didn't comment on Tuncali as being "raw" or "newbish", but straight up stupid. (Tuncali, in case you want to strangle me, notice the past tense)

Obvjoke is obv.

* Meransiel for unvoting mozamis so he could vote someone he doesn't think is scum, replaced by a terrible vote on MBL while avoiding a question about mozamis

I am SURE scotsman is scum

, you're just an easier lynch. But JUST as scummy as he is.

Are you on drugs?

Vote: scotsman12

for generally just agreeing with the most popular wagon, re-enforcing that in a way that really doesn't help discussion and all-around short posts.

Hmm...like most people, I agree that MrBuddyLee's opening post was scummy as hell and

my vote was sitting on a player I didn't think was scum anyway

, so...

Vote: MrBunnyLee

You just said you didn't think scotsman was scum and now you say you're SURE he's scum?

You're a goddamned train wreck. Please explain your seemingly constant contradictions. What are your exact positions on mozamis and scotsman?

Are YOU on drugs? My vote was on mozamis when I voted you! If you don't believe me, check the most recent vote count before that reply!

Though, you making this mistake gives kind of a town read...man this is hard...

[Meransiel]

No, what YOU don't understand is that in post 113 my vote is written on mozamis.

I never thought scotsman could be town.

[Meransiel]

So by "not being suspicious", I was referring to mozamis, not scotsman.

[Meransiel]

Thing is, I was referring to the vote count. So, when I said my vote was sitting on a player that I didn't think is scum, I was indeed referring to mozamis. But there's no way I can make you believe me.

moz, I see what you're trying to do, please, tone it down a little.

[Meransiel]

Thing is, I was referring to the vote count. So, when I said my vote was sitting on a player that I didn't think is scum, I was indeed referring to mozamis. But there's no way I can make you believe me.

moz, I see what you're trying to do, please, tone it down a little.

why? you're worried people think we are scumbuddies?
Think people are smarter than that.

Dude, this is the internet.

@pj:

I really feel that scotsmany plays it safe, even too safe. He jumped on my wagon when it was extremely popular, and most of his posts are him either agreeing or disagreeing with somebody else's argument. In short, he's not contributing with anything, and making it appear as if he is. Or anyway, that's the impression he gave me.

On those grounds, I don't really know if he should be hammered right away, but the fact that kind of nobody suspects him scares me a little.

[Meransiel]

If you do not explain, I will DayVig you.

What the actual fuck?!

Unvote

Vote: petroleumjelly

Vote will be removed when you explain what the hell you did there.

I really feel that scotsmany plays it safe, even too safe. He jumped on my wagon when it was extremely popular, and most of his posts are him either agreeing or disagreeing with somebody else's argument. In short, he's not contributing with anything, and making it appear as if he is. Or anyway, that's the impression he gave me.

First, when I voted for you, there was only one other person (truant) who was voting for you. Mozamis had the popular wagon. Not you. Second, please show where most of my posts are me either agreeing or disagreeing with somebody else's argument? A quick iso of me shows that this is in fact not the case. I fully disagree with the statement that I am not contributing with anything.

Mozamis had the popular wagon, but the popular theory was that we were scum together. In any case, not only Truant was suspicious of me, not even at that point. Also:

Petro, you change your vote way too often. I'm not suspecting you or anything, it's just a risky thing to do.

Why mention it then if you don't suspect it?

That WIFOM in Meransiel's last post only makes me more confident in my vote.

Preview Edit: Mozamis's vote on pj sucks, and is basically OMGUS.

You don't post too much, not to quote.

Also, you're tunneling on me. Badly. And your attempts to touch on the suspicion of other players seems intentionally weak. You don't

win

the game by lynching me, you know. Well, not by just that, anyway.

[Meransiel]

*not much to quote

[Meransiel]

@petro, I'm still demanding to know why the hell you claimed vig.

[Meransiel]

Wow, Amrun, your stupidity radiates like a light bulb. I was just claiming HE was mafia. But whatever.

[Meransiel]

@Meransiel, what do you think of mozamis'

s

ignoring

of

pj/mbl's questions? Do you think it's scummy at all? Why or why not?

Sorry, felt the urge to do that.

Yes, I do think it's quite scummy. I'm reluctant to do anything against him though...who knows what kind of role he has that he decided to protect me so much? And who knows what will happen to me if he is lynched...


@Amrun: I am the kind of person who likes the least complex solutions that work. The existence of a Lyncher - when the Lynchee is not announced, specifically - is not one of them.

[Meransiel]

Why would a lynchee be announced? That makes no sense.

Way to dodge the point.

Also your insults have been noted. Scum tactics 101.

And so, the Scum tactics 101 received another entry. Number of total entries: 1.

@petro, I'm still demanding to know why the hell you claimed vig.

And I don't care. I know what I'm doing, and why I'm doing it.

Very well, then. Wanna make a deal?

@Mer: I win when all the scum are dead. I think you are the most likely to be scum. So i'm going to vote for you. And how have my attempts to touch on the suspicions of others seem intentionally weak? You seem to throw around a lot of accusations against me, but you never explain them. And when I asked you to explain how most of my posts were just agreeing and disagreeing with each other, you quote two posts, don't elaborate on them at all, and say that I don't have a lot of posts to quote. So were you just lying when you initially said all I have been doing was agreeing and disagreeing with people?

And you are voting for someone who just claimed to have the ability to dayvig. An action which can be confirmed. Why would you ever do such a thing as town?

I'm inclined to believed PJ at the moment. I was a oneshot dayvig in frogs 1.

Please tell me who else you have accused, and yes, I am talking about people you built cases on in more than a single post.

we need an answer PJ as to why/if you have claimed vig. Saying "i dont care" is unhelpful to town.

No, it isn't, it's completely null. I'm inclined to believe he is, in fact, dayvig (especially since he claimed without even being under pressure, which, even though is weird as hell and WILL get him killed, is not a scum move).

The only issue is the incredibly stupid way he is going to abuse his power (made obvious by himself, really). I am actually 90% sure he will kill 2 townies in a row, maybe even more.

To answer your question: I havent seen anything scummy from Meransiel.

This will probably get me lynched, but whatever: moz, I kind of have been pretty scummy...not on purpose, just because I wasn't careful enough with my posts. There's no way in hell anybody could be able to say what you just said without some prior, PR information.

Please explain, for your own sake.

...There were two other questions for you to answer Mozamis. You totally just avoided answer why you think both pj and MBL are scum. Again.

+everything else scots attacked mozamis with

Are you just now trying to prove you're not tunneling on me? Cause it isn't the best attempt ever.

Meransiel, so are you not attacking mozamis because mozamis is defending you? How does mozamis defending you, in any way, make mozamis look like town to you?

Pay some attention, please. I don't think mozamis is town. I just don't want to risk any game-related side effect of him getting killed. I said that already in an earlier post.

Good flips right now:
Truant
Mozamis
OGML (now tied to mozamis considering previously noted connection. I want to see mozamis flip first.)

Why would Truant be a good flip?

Tuncali, do you understand that petroleumjelly is essentially claiming to be a vigilante, a role that is most often town? He claims to be trying to extract better behavior from this town by threatening slackers with immediate death by vigilante kill if they do not comply.

Do you have a problem with him demanding better behavior from town?

Or do you suspect that petroleumjelly is faking his vigilante claim? Or do you think he is a vigilante that is not town?

Because if you think he is a town vigilante, but you are still voting for him, then you are scum.

Nah. Votes have uses other than hammering. Pj acts as if he's ze leadorz, and provided he really is dvig, this could go horribly wrong - a couple of votes on him should convince him to lose a bit of pride and be a team player.

Because if you think he is a town vigilante, but you are still voting for him, then you are scum.

Mostly because of this.

He asked Tuncali questions and then told him how to answer to avoid suspicion.

That's the smartest point made so far. Not the best one, not the most consistent one, just really cunning. I think a scum would be more likely to come up with this...so, Amrun, up my reads ...

Hours Until Eligible for Being DayVigged

1.)

OhGodMyLife: Approximately 16 hours

2.)

BlenBlen: Approximately 28 hours

If Truant doesn’t post content as promised, he is susceptible to being added to the Eligibility List, given that his last substantive post was on Sunday.

Stop. Doing. That. It's not helping anybody.

I claimed my role because I was already going to

use

my role today at some point anyways -- which is effectively the same as claiming, since I have to post my kill in-thread.

Oh, already going to use your vote today? Wow, this is SO going to end in a mafia lynch (extreme sarcasm).

I just pray to God you're one-shot. If that's the case, at least it will be one-for-one: one dead townie, one confirmed townie player. And that's the BEST case scenario I can think of.

If you do not explain, I will DayVig you.

What the actual fuck?!

Unvote

Vote: petroleumjelly

Vote will be removed when you explain what the hell you did there.

Lol Wut? Why the vote? ( Oh shit he's DayVig, get rid of him, GET RID OF HIM .. *subconciously votes* ... )

"Mafias" begin with Ms, put 'em on the rope.

Oh, dude, beneficial or not, and though I won't even try to push it...when you die, I will be so happy...

[Meransiel]

Those posts were proof of you just agreeing and disagreeing with others. All other posts were purely accusations on me at that point (and even later on), pointing out tunneling. By the way, if memory serves, your case on nopoint was quite weak.

And why would it be so bad not to give all reads? Both the mafia AND the town will have access to more information, and I do believe the town can benefit more from it.

Also, if you really think only scum vote for claiming vigs, why don't you ask petro to kill me. Actually, no, do it, I dare you.

[Meransiel]

Changed my mind, I do want to see what Truant flips.

[Meransiel]

Meransiel, why would I be a good flip? Why aren't you voting for me if you want to see?

Because nobody defends you. And not a lot of people attack you. Cozy spot, ain't it? The thing with the cozy spot is - no matter who dies in the game, it won't give us any information about you. Good thing there's a way to get that information by force.

side point: I find it quite interesting that of the 3 people that want to see you flip, you only demand answers from the most suspicious one. But whatever.


Oh, by the way, plan.

Step 1:

Unvote

Vote: mozamis

Step 2:
Petro, you can both confirm your role and not bring us closer to losing by doing this: simply put, if someone reaches L-1, you daykill him. (ignore this if you're 1-shot, of course). This way, he was going to die anyway, so it's not like the town will end up any worse.

Or, even better, you can kill me for suggesting that .

[Meransiel]

And Lynch all Lurkers is?

[Meransiel]

And Lynch all Lurkers is?

PJ's method is so clearly town. He is actively enforcing an activity level in the game, without any bias, which is clearly a protown intent.

I didn't say pj is scum. No, pj is 100% town. That doesn't mean that I agree with anything he is going to do.

[Meransiel]

And mozamis, I was always kind of suspicious of you, to be honest. Give me a good reason to unvote, and I might reconsider (might).

[Meransiel]

And Lynch all Lurkers is?

PJ's method is so clearly town. He is actively enforcing an activity level in the game, without any bias, which is clearly a protown intent.

I didn't say pj is scum. No, pj is 100% town. That doesn't mean that I agree with anything he is going to do.

This was obviously was in reference to PJ's method, because I don't see any other form of LaL being attempted here. So unless you are making an irrelevant point, that's what I assumed.

@whoever was talking at me: I don't find anything dodgy with BuddyLee.

No, that's the point. Thought I made it crystal clear 2-3 pages ago.

well, tell me why you are suspicious of me

Your constant defense on me, your tunneling on MBL, your casual ignoring of accusations, your complete lack of long posts i.e. actual cases and not just PI.
Shall I go on?

9) Please let me know in advance if you are going to be away. If you are inactive without warning for 48 hours, I will send a prod. If that prod is not picked up in a further 48 hours, I will search for a replacement. If you manage to contact me before I find a replacement, you can continue with your place in the game, but after I've found one it's too late.

irrespective of whether or not either player has picked up their prod, it has not been 48 hours since the prod (as seen in my post history).

That's now 48 hours since the prod, and since neither has posted I am now searching for replacements.

woot

[Meransiel]

The word is "amidst", not "admist".

Also, glad you want the same thing from petro which I do.

[Meransiel]

He means we will get you to L-1 and pressure you to claim. And he thinks your claim will be fake. Or that's my interpretation, dunno.

[Meransiel]

You should never claim scum, not even if you're a jester lol. But this is a closed setting, so you can say pretty much anyway.

[Meransiel]

*you can say pretty much anything anyway

[Meransiel]

Damn this game is piling up so quickly...you either post everyday or get lost.

Good day to the new guy, hope you'll have a jolly good time textwalling about me, and then praying I actually take a better look at it.

MBL, it is curious that although you consider me the 4th or 5th scummiest (and there are likely 2 or 3 scums), your case on me is the most consistent, but whatevs. Do you want me to comment on the things you have unclear about me? Cause it looks like the sort of thing not worth doing without an actual request.

Not liking the attacks of petro against MBL, but since the vig thing is perfectly verifiable, I will limit myself to believing he is 100% town until day 2 (I think that answers one of MBL's questions). And, of course, not liking the slight suspicion of people in general about petro, since it's pointless.

@Darkstrike: Lol, took you some time to write all that. Impressed is all.

@mozamis: Glad to see you working somewhat better lately.

unvote

[Meransiel]

Also, I just realized that several people I called female are not. Woops.

Happens.

Wow, L-1 already. Nobody hammer, please.

[Meransiel]

* If mozamis comes up town, who do you think is more likely to be scum?

If mozamis turns up town, I think I'm kinda fucked. Everybody would vote for me, so my opinion on the matter would be worthless, but whatever: I would vote for you, MBL. It is hard for me to perceive you as scum right now, I agree (what with your posts being coherent, pro-town and picturing pretty obvious scumhunting and logic that is not fallacious), but here's my problem: you're building cases on everyone, and drawing the connections back to me and moz (more me than moz, but whatever). I don't say that is wrong, actually, good job no matter your alignment. But this way, you can retreat to one of your other cases, would a mislynch happen (I can't say right now if you're working preemptively as a strategy, subconsciously, or not at all, but a moz town flip would clarify the matter a bit). And if you're scum, you know a mislynch will happen, so you do the exact opposite of tunneling (which is the main difference between you and...well, absolutely everybody else, honestly) to keep in fresh with suspects, and also make us suspect each other (which, as I have stated above, is a great strategy for either alignment, so I cannot tell until mozamis dies).

* If mozamis comes up scum, who do you think is more likely to be scum?

If mozamis turns up scum, I would have to go with scots. When most people were schooling moz and giving him some rest, scots was genuinely hunting him down (just like MBL, but, as stated above, MBL plays cleanly and consistent in general, so it doesn't apply) and reinstating the questions moz was ignoring, bringing up new accusations and such, which could either be scumhunting or faking scumhunting. This is either classical bussing, as if moz turns up scum, we would never think to connect the two of them (something scots is very clearly aware of), or a genuine attempt to kill scum. Again, we can't tell until moz flips.

So, yeah, I do believe that a moz flip is most urgent now (though I do believe a lot of people will comment on me changing my mind too often, but there's nothing I could do about it). I also believe that at least 1 scum is on his wagon (no matter his alignment), but we can work on that on day 2.


I hereby declare that I will hammer unless petro posts. No, I'm not joking.

[Meransiel]

Damn, he's at L-2 now? Nevermind the hammer then....

[Meransiel]

By the way, if anybody gets hammered before I can use my DayVig, you will earn my eternal wrath. In fact, I am going to go so far as to say: if you hammer before I DayVig, you get lynched (or DayVigged, if we're both still alive) on Day Two.

MBL, quit your whole "I'm Town, I'm Town" in your posts. Not helping. And I'm not impressed with your whole "who

else

do you think is scum?" schtick you have going. I (and others) don't have to solve the entire game on Day One just to lynch somebody. When (and if) I want to diversity my attacks on different players, I will. If I attack one player exclusively, it's because I find it the most enlightening at that point. The more I talk about everybody, the more my points are diluted and lost in the smoke of battle.

Ah, great, just wanted you to post.

Now, it DOES seem far enough in the day for you to start giving hints at who you're gonna vig, no?

[Meransiel]

Meransiel, when i flip town, why do you think you would be "kinds f***kd"? Sure you voted for me at one stage,but i dont see thats a big problem.

It's not me voting for you or anything like that, just...I'm the 2nd biggest suspect (1st for several people), and if your flip is not as informative as expected (and doesn't steer any reactions that could lead to something) then going for either the second biggest target or people that voted for you would be the most sensible thing to do for day 2 (I'd do it if I wasn't myself, naturally). Glad you're calm about it, though.

[Meransiel]

And to re-emphasize: nobody even put mozamis at L-1, or he can just hammer himself to deny me my DayVig.

Ah come on, he's not creative enough to do that!

@MBL and Amrun: Stop arguing if swearing is good or bad. Doesn't help us in any way conceivable. Btw, good points on nopoint.

[Meransiel]

This is clearly going nowhere. Sadface...

[Meransiel]

Cool reaction, moz. Sorry for all this, but at least now we have 1 confirmed innocent. We won't disappoint you! (yet)

[Meransiel]

Vote: nopoint

Hm?

[Meransiel]

Maybe the poison works like a truth serum? (twas a joke)

[Meransiel]

I find scot's points on actingup to be fairly valid, though his defensive stance on MBL does send quite a strange vibe...

Anyway, since I don't think of MBL as scum (mainly because I'm not seeing the inconsistencies and fluff other people are seeing in his posts, for some reason), and I don't consider myself capable on generating a (successful) wagon on my own, and those 2 seem to be the most popular choices right now, I will do this:

Vote: nopointinactingup

Mod, can you please count them?

@implosion's question: I did explain why I thought so. Anything unclear?

[Meransiel]

MBL, hear me out a little. Amrun knew the chance mozamis would die today was astronomical. If he was scum,

he would know that saying "coaching super-scummy mozamis doesn't help me get a townread on you"

would land him in a VERY suspicious spot. I think that proves he is a town, somewhat.

The rest of your post, I agree with.

[Meransiel]

No, it's actually nothing but common sense. If you are scum, thus, knowing who is innocent and who isn't, you don't go around accusing people of coaching "obvscums", especially since you KNOW said obscums are going to die and flip town.

Hence, I stand on my belief that Amrun is town. Do with that as you wish.

[Meransiel]

Seems like a town on town argument to me, albeit a weird one...

[Meransiel]

5.)

Meransiel, why did you go from “nobody hammer mozamis” to “I hereby declare that I will hammer unless petro posts”?

To force you to post, naturally. Wasn't really going to do it.

[Meransiel]

My parents suck.

Anyway...been away the WHOLE site those days, so not really avoiding this. Really sorry, Shanba, can you have me back?

[Meransiel]

I actually think she gave a pretty good reason for that matter, Amrun. Can you deny that MBL's posting, above all possible errors and longy-ness, isn't valid scumhunting, steering discussion, and quite useful? He looks pretty town to me.

But, on the other hand, there are probably three scum and we are generally seriously considering only two people to be scum (Apok and iam, from what I can see), so yeah, any lead is probably worth it. In the meantime, I'd like everyone to post more, so there CAN be more reads (hypocritical thing to say? maybe...). Not that cluttering is a good thing, but...

And yet again, reason eludes me. Right now, I don't know exactly who to vote for, and I have to ask...is there anyone here who thinks his read is solid enough to build up a complete case? Zzzzz...will be waiting for answers, or not...

[Meransiel]

That I believe. You do overreact to his insults though.

[Meransiel]

By the way, iam, I'm glad you're not giving up to the pressure and claiming. It usually does more bad than good.

[Meransiel]

Point taken. Not shared (just to be clear). And even if he IS getting lynched, what's the deal?

a1. If he is VT and claims VT, it would be just as useful as if he didn't say anything. You can't disprove nor prove that
a2. If he is scum and claims VT, same thing.
a3. If he is PR and claims VT, there's a chance nobody will believe him when he would make a honest claim later. Which basically renders investigative roles useless.

b1. If he is VT and claims PR, he will say something inconsistent the next day and get lynched. Or, even worse, somebody could counterclaim, thinking that he is scum. So it's just slowing it down.
b2. If he is scum and claims PR, he will likely escape the lynch. Great job, no?
b3. I don't even have to say why a PR revealing himself under pressure is bad.

So nah, not really relevant.

[Meransiel]

B3 is useful only if you're not in danger. I.E. when people do not have a reason not to trust you (and yes, the double negative makes sense here, even if it is grammatically incorrect). Plus, night kills exist.

[Meransiel]

Exactly. So he shouldn't claim, or, at the very least, he shouldn't claim PR.

[Meransiel]

And what is the worth of a PR that dies before ever using his abilities?

[Meransiel]

If we lynch an unclaimed pr, the mafia is more likely to hit another pr at night.

This...makes no sense.

[Meransiel]

I don't think petro will die. His potential miskills are a valuable resource to scum.

[Meransiel]

Meransial, why are you voting for me, anyway?

To be honest? No reason at all.

FYI, Bella, I wasn't accusing nopoint for attacking moz, I was accusing him for throwing a token support to it without any real context.

I dunno what on earth Meran's going on about claiming or not claiming or what have you, but it's fishy.

Might be fishy, but 2-3 people threatening to hammer unless a claim is given is plain stupid.

scot, Meransiel, implo, what do you think of Apok?

Null to me, sorry.

[Meransiel]

I have reasons to lynch nopoint. Just because you replaced him, that doesn't eliminate the scummy things he said.

[Meransiel]

You know, guys... I've been thinking for some time about the balance in this game... and, as close to the nightphase as it might be, I think Bella should die.

[Meransiel]

The town has a dayvig. Her and I are some kind of neighbors that don't know eachother's alignment and can talk at night. You honestly expect a balanced game to give town both dayvigs and (albeit unconfirmed) masons?

[Meransiel]

What WIFOM?

Lynch her, if she's town, lynch me. Or lynch me, if I'm town, lynch her. As simple as that.

I claimed cause this is a piece of info that might prove useful later. Plus, the neighbor is probably the most expendable role, safe for VT, so nk'ing me is a wasteful move for the mafia anyway.

[Meransiel]

If I'm not town motivated as you say, then lynch me. The flip would sort some things out.

These are bad times for town. If we mislynch, it will be 3-null in favor of mafia, and if petro mislynches tomorrow (which he probably will) the best possible outcome is 5-1.

Oh, and the mafia helping to find PR thing? That is exactly what you're doing by forcing iam to claim.

[Meransiel]

So don't patronise me for wanting to win as much as anyone else, and being reckless about it. Oh, by the way:

unvote

[Meransiel]

1. I didn't say iam will flip town. I just said it would be devastating if he would.

2. For what it's worth, I like my name. Please type it correctly, or use a short.

[Meransiel]

This is perfectly legit and logical.

You people should lynch me. If I am town, lynch Bella. If I am scum, lynch iam. It's this simple.

[Meransiel]

And scots is probably the most "eager to hammer", feels like you left him out on purpose.

[Meransiel]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 64&start=0

Whatever.

[Meransiel]

Alas, we say you goodbye, poor Adder. We hardly knew ye.

[Meransiel]

WtActualf?

[Meransiel]

Meh, whatever. If this is a mislynch, CES dies.

vote:kunkstar

[Meransiel]

And as if it weren't patently obvious, I am 1-Shot. Or else I probably would have just killed kunkstar7 upon visiting the thread.

Fuck.
@kunk auto-vote: Fuck.

[Meransiel]

Cool, we have ourselves a doublevoter!

[Meransiel]

Or maybe apok didn't do anything, and that was the thing. We'll soon find out.

[Meransiel]

I double that FoS on Merensial. He believed Apok's claim way too easily, like he already knew Apok was town.

Awaiting a vote count to confirm Apok's ability.

If you say so.

@CES: Why were you so sure of kunkstar scum?

[Meransiel]

That being the case, it still isn't a horrible idea to track her the following night.

[Meransiel]

I just said it isn't a horrible idea. She doesn't speak almost at all with me during the night, I can't find out anything about her.

[Meransiel]

Meransiel bothers me with a lot of his little details, but I got a town vibe first half of yesterday despite nagging little things. However, he hasn't expressed a reasoned suspect in forever, which is scummy.

Scummy? Hell, it's anti-town at most. I'm sorry that nobody looks overly scum to me, but you'll just have to live with it. I have some town reads, though.

[Meransiel]

Don't worry, apparently everybody forgot about this.

[Meransiel]

V/LA Until Friday, sorry

[Meransiel]

Meransiel, I normally ain't as interested in townreads as scumreads, but it seems everyone is working on process of elimination. Who are your inferred scumreads?

None, I'm afraid. I think you, Amrun, obvCES and (possibly, not certain) implosion are town, but the rest don't seem particularly scummy.

[Meransiel]

You're like 100% sure apok is telling the truth?

[Meransiel]

Wait, sorry, typing error. No, apok is like 90% town. I meant scots.

[Meransiel]

Missed the new page - given what he's claimed, it's pretty darn obvious he's town.

You sure that claim wasn't a lie?

[Meransiel]

Anyway, due to lack of alternatives (like, honestly, I think Amrun and implosion are town, and MBL is not annoying yet), I'll get back to:

Vote: Bella

[Meransiel]

If you say so...I'm definitely not wanting him to be lynched today anyway. Can you please tell me concisely, in like two sentences max, what is scummy about MBL, in your opinion? I'm just not seeing it.

[Meransiel]

Prod dodge. I don't understand why I was prodded but w/e.

[Meransiel]

My suspects are Bella, MBL, scots. Not always that order.

[Meransiel]

Everybody stalls.

[Meransiel]

Heh, why the fuck not?

unvote

Vote: MBL

I guess we can afford a mislynch anyway (not saying it will be a mislynch).

[Meransiel]

Sorry for not having time to contribute.

unvote

[Meransiel]

We didn't have a n0 on this game, did we? Even so, I meant that we hadn't had a proper night yet.

I have been trying to scumhunt... That leads to accusing people.

Bella slot has been hard to read because it NEVER POSTS. Nevertheless, I have a town read on it, especially since I suspect Merensiel currently.

My schedule is going to clear up soonish and I plan to do some ISOs soon and report my findings.

It is true that both members of a neighbor team can't be scum (fucking DUH), but if I'm really scum, why do you even BELIEVE that statement? Do not forget that there are fewer scum than town, so BEST CASE scenario, in case I was scum, would be this:

*You guys lynch Bella.
*Flips town
*I get lynched

Comprendre?

[Meransiel]

No, I'm not even voting Bella. I was questioning your read on me from that perspective.

[Meransiel]

As a side-note, I forgot to explain that statement I made about there being more town than scum...which is relevant...so here's the point:

Town is more likely to mislynch for the mere sake of info than scum is to off their partners to keep themselves hidden, or gambit.

Which...exempts scotsmany, lest he's not THAT reckless, and, frankly, myself.

[Meransiel]

Amrun is playing the deaf card. I was defending MYSELF. Now go back and read what I have written.

[Meransiel]

Ah, forget it, rest my case.

[Meransiel]

Hey hey, let's lynch MBL.

Waiting for a punchline.

[Meransiel]

Yeah, I'm positive now. MBL and Amrun can't be both scum. Nor town.

[Meransiel]

Ok, you proved MBL is a douche. Where's the scummy part?

[Meransiel]

Railroader

[Meransiel]

I still think Amrun is town, sorry.

[Meransiel]

Hey, implosion didn't clarify why he thinks I'm town. Why not push him?

[Meransiel]

I was asking Oman, I know you noticed.

Anyway, honestly, I dunno what to say.

[Meransiel]

Implo, if I was lynched today and flipped town, would you suspect MBL more?

[Meransiel]

I think I KNOW I'm town, and I don't have any strong convictions towards anyone being scum.

[Meransiel]

Yes, that is me admitting that I have little to contribute for town. Sorry about that.

[Meransiel]

I find it fair enough. So course of action to make this game active again is:

1. Lynch Bella.
2. Lynch me and when you see I'm town lynch Bella.

'So...

Vote: Bella

[Meransiel]

And yet again, I'm confused as to what I'm supposed to do...

[Meransiel]

Ah, fuck this. I'll simply hammer when a L-1 happens, the end.

[Meransiel]

So you're expecting Amrun to switch her vote from you to me so you can hammer me?

Dude, not my fault deadline is in 3 hours. Sorry.

Vote: MBL

[Meransiel]

Hey Oman, if you want town to win do the cool thing.

Vote: Bella

MBL, sorry for your death, but the deadline was so close I feared a No Lynch.

Oh, by the way, this is probably Mylo or something.

[Meransiel]

Killjoy.

Unvote

So did you get some helpful investigation?

[Meransiel]

It came from me. Why?

By the way, we should mass claim.

[Meransiel]

Wow. Just wow.

If Implosion is scum I fail at this game epically.

[Meransiel]

What the fuck? Amrun, I always had a town read on you for fuck's sake.

We're waiting for CES to butt in, then kill Bella. I am not mafia, and I will not let you to kill me and lose the game.

[Meransiel]

Crap, the more this goes on the more suspicious I am of Implosion...

[Meransiel]

With sadness, people I would lynch today:

Bella
Implosion

[Meransiel]

There can't be only 1 scum left.

[Meransiel]

Actually if Oman is the sole mafia and we mislynch, we will still lose ze game.

I wanna lynch Implosion. Who is against?

[Meransiel]

@implosion: Pretty logical actually.

Bella gets cleared because town has only one "real" pr, so a pair of townie neighbors makes sence for balance.

That leaves you, Oman and Amrun. Two of you are scum anyway, so I'll ignore Oman for now.

So I have to choose between you and Amrun. And I have her as more town.

[Meransiel]

What kind of humongous backtrack is this?

Town has the following:

Vig
Tracker
Double-Voter
Messenger
Probably 1 Neighbor

But we only have one pr and two neighbors can be town? After you revealed on day 1 because balance told you Bella must be scum, supposedly?

Bella-Merensiel just shot up to number one on my possible pairings list.

That is why I say only 1

real

pr. The vig was one-shot. You as a messenger are mostly useless (except if the mafia doesn't have day talk, in which case your power is actually scum). And I'm not even sure that Oman is townsided. (although him not hammering now when it's most beneficial for scum is a pretty good hint of alignment).

Actually, I'm seriously reconsidering this. Messenger being a mafia role makes a LOT of sense, and Bella thinking it's a townsided ability as she did makes me strongly believe Bella-Amrun to be a possible scum team right now.
I don't know what to believe anymore...

[Meransiel]

Ah, fuck this.

Vote: Amrun

I take full responsibility if this is game over. Oman, take your pick.

[Meransiel]

My current suspicion (which, I admit, is a 180 degree change) is a Bella-Amrun scumteam.

Which makes post 1055 null and void.

[Meransiel]

I don't care what you don't understand. The Messenger thing you have is much more useful for scum than town, so I'm taking this to the logical conclusion.

[Meransiel]

Why would it be more useful to scum?

This post makes me feel the urge to murder someone (read: you), but I will answer anyway.

Potential uses of Messenger as scum:
- Partial daytalk with scumbuddies (read: giving orders)
- Paranoia as the sender is anonymous

Potential uses as Town:
- No

CES, what do you think?

[Meransiel]

I stand by my guess that it's Amrun-implosion.

High five.

[Meransiel]

He is already dead. Oman double voted, right?

[Meransiel]

There are two "vote" there.

[Meransiel]

I don't know what to do and I'm scared.

[Meransiel]

@Mod: Can you please give me a link to Frogs Mafia 1?

[Meransiel]

Fuck life.

Vote: Amrun

Whatever.

[Meransiel]

Nah, I'm pretty sure we won.

But fuck, Amrun, I had you as town from Day 1. I'm like worst player ever.

To be honest I voted you solely because of your role.

[Meransiel]

No joke . I suck at being mafia myself because I always tunnel (something to fix). But damn, girl! If you had claimed like ANYTHING but your real role, you would'we won the game. I'd love to play with you some more.

[Meransiel]

You are a very good player, MBL. They should've killed you off earlier.

Dead QT please.

[Meransiel]

Quicktopics, nao.

[Meransiel]

I made it obvious a couple pages ago.

PARTIAL DAYTALK WITH SCUMBUDDIES

[Meransiel]

So you doing a 3rd, Shamb?

[Meransiel]

So no quicktopics?

[Meransiel]

@Amrun: Me and Bella didn't speak almost at all.

[Meransiel]

You shouldn't have stalled that much on lynching me. I may say things that usually get me lynched midgame, but on lylo I'm pretty accurate .

[Meransiel]

Yeah, sorry for your death, MBL.

I thought you were town, but I'm also utterly TERRIFIED by days that end in No Lynches, so...