Cowboy Bebop Remix [Endgame]

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

What I do know is that despite being called on it, he is STILL doing nothing to help the town.

A vote for GreyICE is a vote for progress!

[Antitown]

I see you posting other places UT. You cannot escape me.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Untrod Tripod

You're not off the hook, though, Nacho.

Grey and toasty, you're making this game unreadable. Grey, can you give me why (in a couple sentences) we should lynch Toasty? Toasty, can you do the same?

[Seraphim]

What I do know is that despite being called on it, he is STILL doing nothing to help the town.

A vote for GreyICE is a vote for progress!

[Rhinox]

What I do know is that despite being called on it, he is STILL doing nothing to help the town.

A vote for GreyICE is a vote for progress!

so much this. He's flailing caught scum at this stage.

I read through toasty and don't see anything that makes him independently scummy. A couple associative things that make me twitch though.

LOL @ ICE now calling seraph town.

[UncertainKitten]

@LLD: Because I just wanted to keep you interested, of course. We all know what happens when witches get bored.

Wait, what?

That's kinda a big thing. Town usually has far less reasons to avoid an undesirable thread than scum.

Should get to the GI issue today or tomorrow. I know a couple of his later posts have NOT been filling me with glee.

[Jahudo]

I'm not buying the chain lynches as a scum tell in this case. Toasty gave at least one individual tell on Seraphim (softclaiming flavor knowledge) and Grey (not acting logical) to find them suspicious. To me it looks like he is analyzing their interactions as a secondary piece of evidence to think its not scum on scum distancing, and since he finds them both suspicious he isn't concluding town on town, so it falls to one or the other is a possibility. I can see townies making all those connections.

Now Grey is calling Seraphim town but on the condition that Toasty is scum and wouldn't distance from a Seraphim buddy like that. That's closer to chain lynching because he his Toasty case with an associative tell instead of an individual tell. If the case was just that, and if Toasty flipped town first Grey could easily find Seraphim scum again. Or if Seraphim flipped town first he'd still have that original reasoning on Toasty.

@Grey: How is that original vote any different than what he is arguing for Toasty? Right now I don't agree with your case and am more wondering if you could have made it as town or not.

After the vote Grey does go on to find Toasty suspicious for individual tells; arguing Toasty is misrepp'ing Grey's player reads and once again I don't think Toasty is wrong here. Grey had given those reads throughout the game. Just because it wasn't in his latest read list at the time doesn't mean he could easily change his reads, especially with his playstyle where its hard to tell what is changing his mind. One minute somone looks bad scum or bad scum, another they are in the pool of top suspect #3.

So Toasty looks alright. Grey could be scum. I need to consider Grey's possible motivations as hypo-scum for switching from Sera to Toasty. Kdub makes convincing points about Grey not worrying about self-preservation or staying on the largest wagon. Maybe scum would consider the Seraphim wagon stalled or in decline. What is the vote count now?

[Kdub]

Grey and toasty, you're making this game unreadable. Grey, can you give me why (in a couple sentences) we should lynch Toasty? Toasty, can you do the same?

Have you read the last few pages? How is it not completely obvious why they are voting each other? I would like to hear your opinion on GreyICE/Toasty/Seraphim, because you haven't said much about them so far, and I got the sense from this post that you are either trying to avoid the issue or take a neutral stance.

I am uncomfortable with the number of players starting to lean toward GreyICE-scum in the last few posts (I'm especially looking at you, UK). It is clear that the Toasty wagon is going nowhere, yet ICE is still pushing it with full conviction. I just can't see a scum player in danger of being lynched behaving that way. I think he's wrong about Toasty, but his actions look like misguided town to me.

[UncertainKitten]

I haven't come to any conclusion yet. I think think the way he is going after Toasty is dumb at best and possibly scummy. I'd need more data.

[GreyICE]

@Grey: How is that original vote any different than what he is arguing for Toasty? Right now I don't agree with your case and am more wondering if you could have made it as town or not.

After the vote Grey does go on to find Toasty suspicious for individual tells; arguing Toasty is misrepp'ing Grey's player reads and once again I don't think Toasty is wrong here. Grey had given those reads throughout the game. Just because it wasn't in his latest read list at the time doesn't mean he could easily change his reads, especially with his playstyle where its hard to tell what is changing his mind. One minute somone looks bad scum or bad scum, another they are in the pool of top suspect #3.

So Toasty looks alright. Grey could be scum. I need to consider Grey's possible motivations as hypo-scum for switching from Sera to Toasty. Kdub makes convincing points about Grey not worrying about self-preservation or staying on the largest wagon. Maybe scum would consider the Seraphim wagon stalled or in decline. What is the vote count now?

Um, when did I give those reads throughout the game? Did you read my reads list where I said Rhinox was town? And explained why he moved when he started posting more content? You are in there? I mean what?

As for Seraphim, if Toasty flips town, I really don't have a desire to lynch him. I tracked down other town games with him in them. He's about this 'levelheaded,' toxic, and abrasive in those. Meta? I don't think so. I can see a town motive, at this point, for what he's doing. I think he really is trying to generate reads. And toasty? He's a scumread that shines like the eastern star.

Plus I'm really starting to sympathize with his frustrated sarcasm. I didn't initially, but there's some really, really annoying scumbags in this town, and Vi and Toasty are two of them. I have no fucking clue who the third is. Antitown is clearly pro-town, and CES better explain his behavior on day 2 or 3, but he's just being too cheeky about being noticed. Untrod and Nacho have been the only one egregiously missing, but I'm still inclined to consider them both town. Tripod fairly obvtown after the unvote bit, and I have no idea why there's this recent wagon push (I'm inclined to think this town is bananas wagon-happy). I note Nacho's best talent as scum is having everyone get a town read on him then quietly disappearing.

[Fate]

Today's one of those days... I feel like I haven't been truly alive in three years. On the same day no less, this happens.

[Antitown]

Grey and toasty, you're making this game unreadable. Grey, can you give me why (in a couple sentences) we should lynch Toasty? Toasty, can you do the same?

Have you read the last few pages? How is it not completely obvious why they are voting each other? I would like to hear your opinion on GreyICE/Toasty/Seraphim, because you haven't said much about them so far, and I got the sense from this post that you are either trying to avoid the issue or take a neutral stance.

Yeah, I have been avoiding the issue, because it's become a "quote every line the other person says and refute it even though it might not be important to the overall arguement, which everyone's kind of lost sight of at this point anyway." It's a huge red herring, because both GreyICE and Toasty seem townish.

Also, the reasons are not completely obvious because I'm seeing lameass tells like "lining up lynches," so don't get all pissy that I'm seeing the BS issue for what it is.

I note Nacho's best talent as scum is having everyone get a town read on him then quietly disappearing.

Yeah, everyone will say this postgame when Nacho ends up being scum after ignoring me when I advertise a scumread that no one so much as comments on (either that, or they'll use it to make

me

seem scummy).

-AH

[UncertainKitten]

So GUESS WHAT FUN I HAVE HAD INFLICTED ON ME!

That's RIGHT KIDS! I have 288 Audio Minutes to do within the next two days! Among OTHER THINGS. While it's not IMPOSSIBLE I'll get that GI read done in the meantime, it just became a fuckton less likely to happen before, like, Thursday.

To put this into perspective, I usually have about 80 Audio Minutes every day. As in 160 over two days, and pretty easily spaced out.

So, YEAH!

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: In the meantime I guess you all could ask me questions I can answer really quickly if you want. Or just pile them up for when I have a chance to reply more in full. Or something. I'll probably also comment on anything I feel like commenting on.

[Nachomamma8]

This post needs to be explained, or the psychotunneling will commence.

I found Toasty to be scummiest when we were discussing bounties. After that time passed, I saw a significant improvement in his play.

I will not remove my vote from you today, and my vote will go on you again tomorrow unless significant evidence points elsewhere

I don't like this. You post it like you don't have the intention of getting GI lynched.

Nacho, are you actually interested in anyone as scum?

Yes. The only one I'm truly interested in right now is Jahudo, and he'll be getting lynched today. I'm just waiting for him to make a couple more #455s before the games begin.

[ToastyToast]

@ Nacho: I've been accused of bussing. I made that decision to show how serious I am about getting GreyICE lynched. I have become more and more sure of my read.

Also, what about the bounty discussion made me look scummy?

@Antitown: Our argument has the large problem of being the same thing over and over again. My reasons for voting GreyICE should be clear at this point. They haven't changed at all. I think I have an obligation to support my points with multiple counts of evidence, as well as defend myself from the lack thereof in GreyICE's arguments against me. If you want the summarized version of my argument, see post 367. The only important additions after this post are his claim that I am misrepping, his framing of my posts as coming from scum, and, later what I see as hypocritical statements regarding the chaining of lynches.

[Kdub]

UK:

Should get to the GI issue today or tomorrow.

I know a couple of his later posts have NOT been filling me with glee.

I would like to know specifically what you don't like about GreyICE's recent posts that made you say this.

[Untrod Tripod]

ARGH REAL LIFE HAPPENED.

Sorry. Will get stuff up tomorrow.

[Vi]

Ran out of time last night.

They evolve. NULL. It means "I do not know." I do not know. When CES kept posting utter shit in the thread, he became scummy. At this point, he's contributed less to this game than Werewolf555 did to the last game I had to suffer in with him. Yeah, I'd endorse a fucking day vig, I have no idea how else I'm supposed to determine his alignment. What I do know is that despite being called on it, he is STILL doing nothing to help the town. That's fucking scummy.

I explained that any change in my reads will have reasons.

You don't ask the reasons.

You just criticize them for changing.

Well, asking you for an explanation for your Jahudo read was pretty fruitless before <_<
Moreover, ironically there's something missing in this, and it's

why (not to mention when) you changed your read on CES

from scum to ? other than sheer peer pressure.
Last, saying that your changes in reads would have reasons is kind of

what I expect from anyone

.

Now, theory time for the Vi - Town tries to determine who scum is. Scum tries to find reasons to lynch townies. You didn't ASK me why my reads changed. You just declared it scummy that they changed.

Toasty did the same only 100x worse because he lied and misrepped me

I stopped reading here.
Most of the time "misreps" are simple reading comprehension failures, not lies. Toasty #21 pretty much follows in this vein.

Okay, I kept reading. Then I stopped reading again, because you evidently weren't interested in the light reading I provided (it was only one post). I have definitely seen Townies try to set up chain lynches.

Much RAGE about nothing, not interested in truth so much as pushing his own agenda, why haven't we lynched this person yet, etc., etc.

---

Bandwagoning Ho - Here's a scum list.

Scum

GreyICE
|
UK
UT
Nacho
Kdub
Seraphim
Toast
Antitown
CES
|
Jahudo
LLD
Rhinox

Town

Ordering is roughly correct, but I didn't put a lot of thought into it.

So I like how UK has
*no read on GreyICE (allegedly)
*no read on me
*no read on CES
Include herself, and that's a third of the game right there.

What was Vi hating about this?

You mean

aside

from the bad cases on Toast and me I've been calling him on for some large number of pages now? You've read his iso, now read mine.

---

GreyICE vs. Toasty is a nice mudslinging skim at 11 at night...

ICE does have a point in that Toast didn't consider Sera vs. ICE as Town vs. Town, but then again,

To leave open a wagon hop from me to Seraphim while saying I'm scum and saying we can't be scum together?

I will not remove my vote from you today, and my vote will go on you again tomorrow unless significant evidence points elsewhere

Again, much RAGE about nothing.

Oh, and while I'm here. Let me see if this is a fair assessment of what happened a few pages ago.

GreyICE says Seraphim is scumscumscum.
Toasty tried to posit that one of GreyICE and Seraphim is scum, leaning GreyICE.
GreyICE immediately implied that one of Seraphim and ToastyToast is scum, "leaning" Toasty.

Thank you and good night.

As for my #1 suspect, well, I'm fucking done with Vi. After you, it's balls to the wall machine guns on Vi unless I get some very convincing evidence she's town. She's sat here and hemed and hawed and done a whole lot of fucking nothing in this thread. We're talking "PM from the moderator" type of evidence for me to believe that at this stage. LLD is town. So bugger off, you're not finding much support for THAT mislynch anywhere around here anymore.

...

Really?
No...

really?

---

Vi:
At the moment, not really. I've gotten bad vibes from UK, and she's not helping herself with her fencesitting on GreyICE, but I don't have anything more solid than that. I've been a bit put off by Nacho's play, but I've felt better about him as the game has gone on.

Search Nacho's posts onsite and tell me if you still think better.

It is clear that the Toasty wagon is going nowhere, yet ICE is still pushing it with full conviction. I just can't see a scum player in danger of being lynched behaving that way. I think he's wrong about Toasty, but his actions look like misguided town to me.

Disagree. There's not much else TO do in that situation.

---

I searched UT's posts, and he's definitely elsewhere onsite. I'm not sure if it's worth giving up GreyICE though.
Cut: Well look who's (not) here. I'm looking forward to this one.

---

Yes. The only one I'm truly interested in right now is Jahudo, and he'll be getting lynched today. I'm just waiting for him to make a couple more #455s before the games begin.

Pretty big talk.
There's no sense in waiting now - go ahead, say what you have.

I don't like this. You

[Toasty]

post it

[dedication of sworn enemyness]

like you don't have the intention of getting GI lynched.

I don't follow.

---Silliness beyond this point

UK - MSPaint Adventures, yes? Also, what are "audio minutes"?

CES's avatar is incorrect.

U. Vote Count

Cogito Ergo Sum (0):
Vi (0):
Rhinox (0):
UncertainKitten (0):
Jahudo (1): Nachomamma
Lady Lambdadelta (0):
GreyICE (5): ToastyToast, Rhinox, CogitoES, Seraphim, Vi (L-2)
ToastyToast (2): Untrod Tripod, GreyICE
Antitown (0):
Kdub (0):
Untrod Tripod (2): Jahudo, Antitown
Seraphim (3): Kdub, Ladyλδ, UncertainKitten
Nachomamma (0):

Not voting:
Trying to go against the flow of all things: Ladyλδ

[UncertainKitten]

@Kdub: I told you already. That whole "lining up lynches" "tell" is silly.

@Vi: Correction, I've chosen to have no read on you and CES until D2. You should know damn well why. As for GI, I haven't had a chance to give him a serious read in isolation, and I was leaning town on him. But apparently everyone thinks he's scum so I *must* be missing something here.

Secondly, reviewing transcriptions is what I do for ~*~money~*~, and Audio Minutes are naturally how many minutes of audio that have been transcribed for me to review. So, at the very least, you know that if I were reviewing on a one for one basis, it'd take me 288 minutes. I'm a bit slower than that, as it takes me about 5 minutes for every 3 and a half audio minutes.

Naturally, this includes a lot of reading, and a lot of the reading is of fuckwits that can't spell, can't read, or can't hear. Or some combination of the three! So going from that...to analyzing a bunch of text walls is NOT exactly something *EASY* for me. I can do it on lighter days with more time, but there's no way in hell it's happening today, and it's highly unlikely to happen tomorrow.

HOPEFULLY you should understand NOW why I've dropped off a bit. I've been just wee bit busy, just MAYBE.

So, yeah:



The best part is, this isn't exactly uncommon knowledge. I find some of your tactics...interesting, to say the least, Vi ^-^.

[Vi]

Having typed/proofed transcriptions before I can vouch that they take a while.
However, apparently with that last line I'm scum for not knowing about your personal life?
The last time I checked you were selling door-to-door insurance or somesuch, but that was a while ago.

Yes I have an idea why you would put a rain check on CES and me, but see previous comment about you not actually hunting scum since Thursday.
Why don't

you

say it - when's the last time you called someone scum or Town ITT, or made a move to suggest that someone would be one or the other?

[UncertainKitten]

Certainly, I'll give you that. And no, not suggesting you're scum, per se. Just suggesting that you MIGHT be going after lower hanging fruit for some reason. And I'm not sure why.

So it's just been filed away for now.

And no, I haven't done much since Thursday except defending myself and making a few off hand comments. If you'd like, let me detail my schedule since Thursday:

Thursday: Do 80 Audio Minutes, get assigned around 100

Friday: Run DnD, hang out with a friend, get assigned 88 Audio Minutes

Saturday: Fully intend to get work done. Don't because of shopping, loud ass father, and general difficulty. Also was *supposed* to have DnD that evening but that didn't happen. Rhythm is completely fucked up that day.

Sunday: Work on Thursday's work. DnD is cancelled today as well (different campaign). Then I have to cook dinner, spend some time in KoL, etc. It's busy.

Monday: DnD in the morning (the session that didn't happen Saturday). This happens til around 2. I'm tired, so two and a half hour nap. Then I have to upload the work I did Sunday, which is about an hour. Then I have to cook dinner. Then I find out I have 190 Audio Minutes due by Thursday. Note I still haven't finished the 88 from Friday. I'll be doing those today. Monday, I probably SHOULD have taken the opportunity to read. I didn't really feel like it.

Tuesday: Argue with you, detailing my schedule, and start work on the bullshit I have to do today. Then I have to head down to Richmond tonight. Probably not going to get reading.

So, yeah, happy?

[GreyICE]

@Vi - yah really. I'm not, not, not happy with what you're doing here. Whole lot of nothing. Reminds me of MangaofIllusion when he's scum (although a whole lot more readable, I'll give you that). Wall of vague suspicion and innuendo. It's town because it's LONG!

I have to go down to the fourth person on your Scum-Town list to find someone I'd even consider for scum, and that's only because I know he's good enough to fool me. kdub is below Seraphim, but you don't agree with my case on Toasty, and you were voting Seraphim a while back?

BULLSHIT.

I know you're nigh-lynchproof today, but you're not going to get away with this forever.

BTW, nice implication that I'll go after Seraphim, when really, I'm either seeing mod confirmation you're town, or I am gunning for you. Because after this day 1, nothing short of that is going to do much to change my mind

[Rhinox]

Knowing that I'll probably be hit with a rage nuke...
UK, in the time it took you to type out your schedule, which is completely irrelevant for us to know in the context of the game, you could have read through half a dozen greyICE posts... just sayin'...

-----------------

greyICE: earlier you said you tracked down some seraphim games and compared his play there to this game. Can you link me to the games you looked at and maybe even a couple examples of specific posts in those games that made you change your mind about seraphim?

Have you done the same sort of investigation into toasty's play? How about Vi's?

[GreyICE]

Knowing that I'll probably be hit with a rage nuke...
UK, in the time it took you to type out your schedule, which is completely irrelevant for us to know in the context of the game, you could have read through half a dozen greyICE posts... just sayin'...

-----------------

greyICE: earlier you said you tracked down some seraphim games and compared his play there to this game. Can you link me to the games you looked at and maybe even a couple examples of specific posts in those games that made you change your mind about seraphim?

Have you done the same sort of investigation into toasty's play? How about Vi's?

I just search people's recent topics. It's in their profile when you click their name. For Seraphim:

Scum:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 83&start=0
Town:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... lect=10072
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 90&start=0
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 37&start=0

Basically I don't see him as a self-righteous player which is resulting in false bravado and a lot of lecturing us. I don't see the same thing coming from his scumgame. He's basically starting to remind me of a better version of RobCapone (which ain't much of a compliment, but there you go).

Toasty, I can link you to one game:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 11&t=16526

But I didn't really do much more than skim it. Metagaming is a waste of time, he's opportunistic scum and he's caught.


Vi, I don't know, I don't care. She's good enough to fake whatever, it's motive, and right now she's acting like scum. You have to go half way up her scum-town list to find someone she thought was "probably scum."

[Fate]

Finally my chance to strike.