Mafia 44: Generic - Abandoned!

[Don Gaetano]

Just posting to say I'm here. I've tried to think of something productive to post all day, but I just don't

get

this game today, and I don't think I'm the only one. I'm standing by my vote for progesteronZ since there doesn't seem to be anything better to go by out there.

[BrianMcQueso]

First off, I'm not you. Second off, masons are confirmable by determining who the partner is, but if you're part of a mafia, you can find somebody to be part of the team easily. And you don't really need to say anything if the other dies and turns up as scum other than "it never said we were protown." Thirdly, missing two nightchoices in a row sucks, and as a cop, all you have to say is "x is innocent," and then you can be naive if anybody gets nightkilled and turns up scum. Everything can be easily faked with the help of a mafia.

A masonry claim, this early in the game, is just flat out stupid for the Mafia. Masons are more likely to be shot at by enemy killing groups because masons are usually confirmed innocents. If either "mason" dies and is revealed as mafia, I can't think of a single thing the other one could try to say to us that would stop us from lynching them. I don't think the scum would hand the town a two-for-one coupon on a silver platter like that.

If anti-town roles were going to fake a cop claim, they'd pack investigations along with it. Fake guilty investigations on people they'd want to lynch, fake innocent investigations on townies they'd like to have on their side, that kind of thing. Not having an investigation draws attention to itself, which the mafia doesn't want. Why would a mafioso choose "I don't have an investigation" over the much safer lie "(Name) is innocent"?

All in all, a mason-cop is one of the roles most likely be nightkilled. Why would anyone want to

pretend

to be that?

[Fritzler]

I don't know, I want to try it sometime now as scum.

[chamber]

I just had a thought, and its going to sound very newbish. I don't think we are getting alignments on death, now some roles are obviously town, like the doctor, but could the lawyer be a mafia role? Or am I just crazy and when we hit mafia it will say so?

[BrianMcQueso]

I'd

hope

that we'd get alignment on death, but you raise a valid point. Usually if the mod isn't going to reveal alignment on death they'd say so... but then again Dranko is kinda funkular like that. I could see the Mailman being a Serial Killer, for instance.

[Dranko20]

Just so you know, any antitown role will CLEARLY be indicated it is anti town. if not otherwise stated, they are protown.

[VitaminR]

This game seems to have come to a halt.

vote: chamber

His reaction to Snap's claim and his bandwagoning today.

[chamber]

This game seems to have come to a halt.

vote: chamber

His reaction to Snap's claim and his bandwagoning today.

He claimed a cop who missed BOTH investigations, and to be part of a mason pair but won't reveal his partner. Furthermore he implied his investigations were flawed if he didn’t target the same person as his partner, wouldn't him dying then negate the usefulness of his partner? This effectively does NOTHING to clear him. As for my 'bandwagoning' I thought both armlx and snap looked scummy. I think I voted snap before it was a bandwagon but w/e.

[VitaminR]

There's no way scum would claim like that. Precisely because of your reaction and because there is no effort involved in making the claim believable. Also, claiming mason as scum will require a mafia buddy to back you up eventually and is too big a risk in the long term.

[chamber]

There's no way scum would claim like that. Precisely because of your reaction and because there is no effort involved in making the claim believable. Also, claiming mason as scum will require a mafia buddy to back you up eventually and is too big a risk in the long term.

Ever heard of wifom?

[Shamrock]

There's no way scum would claim like that. Precisely because of your reaction and because there is no effort involved in making the claim believable. Also, claiming mason as scum will require a mafia buddy to back you up eventually and is too big a risk in the long term.

Ever heard of wifom?

While it is a WIFOM-esque argument, it's more risk than reward for the scum. If one gets killed (like by a vig or SK or something), the other is revealed as scum as well, giving a two-for-one deal.

[chamber]

There's no way scum would claim like that. Precisely because of your reaction and because there is no effort involved in making the claim believable. Also, claiming mason as scum will require a mafia buddy to back you up eventually and is too big a risk in the long term.

Ever heard of wifom?

While it is a WIFOM-esque argument, it's more risk than reward for the scum. If one gets killed (like by a vig or SK or something), the other is revealed as scum as well, giving a two-for-one deal.

Except there is no second member in this case. And he can limit the risk of his partner being hit by waiting as long as possible to reveal his partner's name. If he gives us the name of his partner, then, and only then, will I consider him to be a poor lynch.

[Sineish]

I'm a mason cop. I can only talk to my mason partner (who I'll not name unless they want to come forward) up until the point we send off our investigation targets each night.

Whatever the mechanics of the cop side of his role - Snap is claiming here to be a mason in a group of 2. One revealed mason and one hidden mason is actually better for the town than two revealed masons - it presents the mafia with a dilemma. Do they kill the claimed mason, confirm the masonry's presence and give an unknown player a simple way to clear themselves, or do they keep the claimed mason alive hoping that the second mason will be forced out to support the first? The longer the town can afford to have a hidden mason (and as we're on day 2 at the moment I think that's at least until day 4), the less information the mafia have to base their kill choice on. That's why I can't understand this point of view:

If he gives us the name of his partner, then, and only then, will I consider him to be a poor lynch.

If it was just a mason issue, I might think about fossing, but since you're also trying to get Snap to out a cop as well, I think I'll:

Vote: chamber

S.

[BrianMcQueso]

Whatever the mechanics of the cop side of his role - Snap is claiming here to be a mason in a group of 2. One revealed mason and one hidden mason is actually better for the town than two revealed masons - it presents the mafia with a dilemma. Do they kill the claimed mason, confirm the masonry's presence and give an unknown player a simple way to clear themselves, or do they keep the claimed mason alive hoping that the second mason will be forced out to support the first?

You're right... except for one small thing. If the Mafia kills the revealed mason without knowing the identity of the concealed mason, the Mafia can later counterclaim to be the hidden mason.

The thing is (and this is directed toward Chamber), if Snap is lying, he will probably be revealed without being lynched when he's killed tonight, assuming a doctor doesn't protect him. Whether Snap is telling the truth or not, other killing groups would still take a shot at him, thinking he's a cop. Masons never live long, and if Snap continues to live for a while, then we'll take another look at him.

In the end, you're still pushing way too hard to lynch a claimed cop (on Day 2!) which is Just. Plain. Dumb.

vote: chamber

[BrianMcQueso]

I'd like to tweak that last part to "lynch a claimed cop or get him to reveal another cop". Either way, it's still foolish.

[chamber]

This is a difference of opinion. If no one else agrees with me the cops not going to come out. I still think his calim is worthless. I don't know how to defend myself other then saying I honestly feel the other cop should come forward.

[Shamrock]

I also think it's silly to lynch a claimed cop at this point in the game, even if we don't know his mason partner. Admittedly, showing a partner would give his claim more credibility, but even without that he's still a very bad idea to lynch and a somewhat suspicious choice.

Vote: chamber

[Falcone]

Unvote: Snap

I'm still not entirely convinced by his claim, but we don't risk much by leaving him alive for now, and if he's telling the truth, forcing him to out his partner would be disastrous.

I'm still waiting for Blackberry's reasons for his vote for me.

[Snap]

vote: Chamber

Continually pressing me to reveal my partner isn't going to work, and to be honest, I think it's better for the town if I get lynched with my partner unrevealed, than to reveal my partner and not get lynched. The overbearing presure from you corner for me to reveal just seems scummier and scummier now, Chamber, and I feel much happier in voting you now.

[chamber]

I assume everyone voting me wants a claim? Once I'm 1 or 2 away I'll give one.

[Fritzler]

Oops, didn;t realize I switched my vote to falcone.

unvote, vote: Chamber

[chamber]

Eh I said 1-2 away but 3 works too, I'm a vig.

[Majority Leader Bell]

You vigged anyone yet?

[chamber]

You vigged anyone yet?

Although I'm ashamed to say it I azwolg'ed(miss vigged) lyingbrian.

[Fritzler]

You vigged anyone yet?

Although I'm ashamed to say it I azwolg'ed(miss vigged) lyingbrian.

That was me sorry. Hmm, want to vig him again tonight? I doubt we have 3 killing groups, and if there are three kills tonight i'll probably believe you.