Cowboy Bebop Remix [Endgame]

Lady Lambdadelta · Post Post #400 (ISO) » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:30 pm

@Vi: My town read on GreyICE is mainly consistent upon Seraphim being scum. I see no reason why Scum!Sera and Scum!GI would exist together.

Also, that last strip meant to say "I have a good idea of who is scum with you though, if you flip scum". I was just tired.

Seraphim · Post Post #401 (ISO) » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:33 pm

But I thought you weren't going to make alignment decisions based on an unmade flip because it's just gut and not based on any concrete evidence?

If you have no problem saying GreyICE is town based on my presumed alignment, why the fuck do you have such an issue saying who is scum based on my being scum?

Lady Lambdadelta · Post Post #402 (ISO) » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:36 pm

Seraphim wrote:But I thought you weren't going to make alignment decisions based on an unmade flip because it's just gut and not based on any concrete evidence?

If you have no problem saying GreyICE is town based on my presumed alignment, why the fuck do you have such an issue saying who is scum based on my being scum?

HOW MANY TIMES DID I SAY, THIS IS ALL MEANINGLESS WITHOUT A FLIP.

HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU ASK FOR IT ANYWAY?

AND NOW THIS? NO. THIS IS TOO MUCH.

Seraphim · Post Post #403 (ISO) » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:38 pm

So, what you're saying is that you have no good reason to believe GreyICE is town?

Lady Lambdadelta · Post Post #404 (ISO) » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:41 pm

Seraphim wrote:So, what you're saying is that you have no good reason to believe GreyICE is town?

+1 Misrep.

I have a god-dammed good reason to believe it. I just can't provide it as evidence, because there is no flip! I

know

think you will flip scum, so I am confident in his townieness for now.

But I can't provide it as evidence because it REQUIRES A FLIP.

DO YOU GET THIS? HOW MANY TIMES ARE YOU GOING TO TRY AND TWIST MY WORDS? THERE IS NO TOWN MOTIVATION IN TRYING TO CREATE SCUM INTENT WHERE THERE IS NONE.

Oh wait, you're scum.

Seraphim · Post Post #405 (ISO) » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:50 pm

I don't see fucking scum intent and I certainly never said that. Now who's misrepping? I'm just frustrated that you won't answer the damn question. My conclusion is perfectly logical based on your logic.

1. You shouldn't give the names of who you believe to be my potential buddies because it's based on my flip which hasn't happened yet.
2. Because it's based on a flip that hasn't happened yet, you should not state those reads because they are worthless without a flip.
3. Therefore, these theoretical scum reads are useless without a flip.
4. GreyICE is theoretically town because you believe I am scum.
5. Therefore, you have no reason to believe GreyICE is town because it is useless without a flip.

It is a perfectly logical conclusion that, because your theoretical scum reads are useless, your town reads based on flips should be similar as well. Your town read on GreyICE is based on my flip as scum. Therefore, you have no reason to believe GreyICE is town until I flip scum.

Is there a hole in my logic that I'm missing?

Lady Lambdadelta · Post Post #406 (ISO) » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:53 pm

Seraphim wrote:I don't see fucking scum intent and I certainly never said that. Now who's misrepping? I'm just frustrated that you won't answer the damn question. My conclusion is perfectly logical based on your logic.

1. You shouldn't give the names of who you believe to be my potential buddies because it's based on my flip which hasn't happened yet.
2. Because it's based on a flip that hasn't happened yet, you should not state those reads because they are worthless without a flip.
3. Therefore, these theoretical scum reads are useless without a flip.
4. GreyICE is theoretically town because you believe I am scum.
5. Therefore, you have no reason to believe GreyICE is town because it is useless without a flip.

It is a perfectly logical conclusion that, because your theoretical scum reads are useless, your town reads based on flips should be similar as well. Your town read on GreyICE is based on my flip as scum. Therefore, you have no reason to believe GreyICE is town until I flip scum.

Is there a hole in my logic that I'm missing?

The hole is that I am convinced you are scum. Therefore, I am convinced Grey is town.

However, I can't just prove Grey is town by saying "Sera is scum" because you haven't flipped yet. Understand?

Ok for me to speculate and act upon.

Not ok to use as solid proof.

Seraphim · Post Post #407 (ISO) » Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:55 pm

Which brings me back to my original point: if you have no problem stating town reads based on my flip, why do you have such a problem posting scum reads based on my alignment?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #408 (ISO) » Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:05 pm

Okay, now this is just going overboard.

LLD, why do you think GreyICE is town? What in the interactions between him and Seraphim make you believe they aren't scum together?

Lady Lambdadelta · Post Post #409 (ISO) » Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:07 pm

Seraphim wrote:Which brings me back to my original point: if you have no problem stating town reads based on my flip, why do you have such a problem posting scum reads based on my alignment?

Because I feel I need more evidence to accuse someone of being scum, than I do to consider someone town.

P-Edit: Nacho, GreyICE votes Seraphim, Seraphim attacks back. This COULD be distancing, but GreyICE continues to push Seraphim, even after Sera's target is switched, and gets him to L-1.

Grey just removed his vote... which is slightly detracting, but I still feel that he's town. Crossbussing on Day 1 seems almost crazy.

GreyICE · Post Post #410 (ISO) » Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:14 pm

I removed my vote because ToastyToast is fucking acting scummy as shit right now, and I'm surprised more people haven't commented on it. Seriously, look at that post. That is such a fucking scum post. It feels like scum celebrating about the day 1 bandwagons. "Oh if one's town I'll lynch the other!"

It's the first fucking thing in this game that makes me think Seraphim is town, because that post screams SCUM in mile high letters.

GreyICE · Post Post #411 (ISO) » Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:19 pm

What is everyone debating about?

THIS IS A SCUM POST

ToastyToast wrote:The thing that bugs me the most about GreyICE is how he passes everything off as "logical" when his posts have little of it. His defense for half his posts is "reason, which you don't have." This constant mention that he's allegedly good at making arguments isn't found in his posts, and he doesn't support his reads with facts. This posting habit makes me think GreyICE is trying to lead town with baseless information. This is a huge contrast to, say, UK, who is leading by asking questions rather than spouting new reads every so often.

Add that to his votes, but more importantly his sudden shifts in attention towards other players. He has only stayed on Seraphim because he realizes there's a chance for a lynch. When he saw that people weren't voting me, he moves to Seraphim. Ignore GreyICE's scum list, and these are the people he's called scum: Seraphim, Me, Jahudo, CES, Antitown, and Rhinox (says he's waffling on this one)

Jahudo's is important because he starts of by calling it a good lynch, then calls him town when Seraphim suspects him. He also places him in his town list. Where did this sudden switch come from? No telling from his posts.

CES and Antitown are easy targets because they've been lurking, but, really, doesn't Katsuki (of Antitown) always lurk? Not to mention the computer problems they mentioned. I've never played with CES, but the other players seem to be used to it. No one else has attacked him.

His focus has been on Seraphim for a majority of the game. This leads me to believe that if GreyICE is scum, Seraphim is town. Or vice-versa, but I'm in favor of a GreyICE lynch before a Seraphim one.

THIS POST WAS MADE BY SCUM

Look at the list he artificially inflated. Look at the fact that I call CES bad (not necessarily scum) and say that Anti is not posting much and therefore null. NULL. Not fucking scum.

And then the last bit. The last bit. Where he sets it up so that he can push for a Seraphim lynch on day 2 if I'm town, or a lynch of me on day 2 if seraphim is town.

SCUM IS POSTING THIS.

ToastyToast · Post Post #412 (ISO) » Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:45 pm

Hello boys and girls! Here's a list of examples in which GreyICE has targeted scum.

GreyICE wrote:
Toasty:
I have a gut read of my own. You're scum. It's a good gut read. Flavor mechanics, IoA, setup speculation, and more waffles than Jahudo.
Unvote
Vote: Toasted

GreyICE wrote: Nice clear posting:I feel comfortable with my vote. What you did = someone not all that comfortable with what they're saying.Deciding to take my comment as a serious accusation rather than an offhand comment about the sentence?

Overdefensive. Jahudo = good wagon.
So is Toasty.

GreyICE wrote:I'm backpeddling? It was an offhand comment. Your post was scummy.
One scummy post does not make you scum, as I will happily link you to game after game where townies make perfectly scummy posts. This reaction? Yeah. That does it for me.

Unvote
Vote: Seraphim
Logic has no place in a game of Mafia my ASS. Logic is what I like to operate on.

GreyICE wrote:
Scummy

Vi - you're doing a lot of theory, which you're comfortable with, you're quoting other games and asking questions, which you're comfortable with, but I'm not sure you're scumhunting.

GreyICE wrote: As for the Rhinox vote, I think it described it accurately. He showed up, made an random vote on the first page, yes, but without mentioning a damn thing that was happening (which is to say that there was no RVS), and vanished for pages. Best reason for a vote I saw by that stage.

GreyICE wrote:The reactions to CES are priceless? What? He's posted a grand total of blah in the thread. If I had a dayvig I'd have no problem dropping his ass.

GreyICE wrote:
As for who you're scum with, looks like Vi. Third I don't know yet. If I had to bet, the list Antitown, ToastyToast, and CES.
TBH, I'm thinking Antitown is probably town, as Antihero has vanished in general, so absence is probably a null tell, and Kats lurks pretty badly most of the time. Just too little content to be sure. Nacho is worth keeping an eye on, it's probably bad to be suspicious of players who are good at being quietly town when they're scum just because they are good at it, but I keep a better eye on them than someone who is pretty easy to read.
Definitely not LLD, Kitten, Tripod, Jahudo, or kdub, they all feel solid town. Rhinox I keep waffling on, a few things rub me wrong, but he just feels too sincere to be scum.

Yeah, read into his talk of Antitown a little too much, but he's still mentioned as scum. But other than that, my list is accurate. Thanks Vi for letting me know that I missed you--had to ISO him a second time.

Discuss

Antitown · Post Post #413 (ISO) » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:03 pm

Oh, wow, I'm an idiot.

I forgot about this hydra completely (sorry, fate).

GreyICE · Post Post #414 (ISO) » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:10 pm

Oh my fucking god, you are so bad at this Toasty.

My Quote:

As for the Rhinox vote, I think it described it accurately. He showed up, made an random vote on the first page, yes, but without mentioning a damn thing that was happening (which is to say that there was no RVS), and vanished for pages.
Best reason for a vote I saw by that stage.

@Rhinox: When I voted you had one post in the thread. Yeah, my read on you changed. Your content level changed. As for the gut read, go check the thread. I was joking about his HORRIBLE gut read vote.

As for Jahudo, I already said I meant Seraphim, I was fucking tired when I made that post. You didn't even read that. You are misrepping like fucking hells. You have to. You're backed into a corner now, because you made a post that's so fucking scum that I'm surprised that maggots aren't crawling out of it.

You sit there neutral until it looks like there might be a wagon on me, and suddenly you're CONVINCED that I'm scum? And then you CHAIN TOMORROW'S LYNCH?

No. Fucking. Way. Town. Does. That.

You are so fucking scum it hurts Toasty. Die in a fucking fire, you failure.

Antitown · Post Post #415 (ISO) » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:55 pm

...initializing scumdar2000...

[PING kdub] Seraphim even said explicitly he has role info about the flavor scum are (which explains your vote "reason"). That's not a scum move.

[PING toasty] Jumping on the softclaim + rolefish scumtell. Plus, that flavor speculation implies scum knowledge (I might write that off as flavor knowledge gained from the show, though).

[PING toasty] "I'm willing to change my vote later when someone is more scummy" scumtell

[PING Vi] A lot of theory that's not even original...a curt dismissal of toasty's scumminess...a pretty unjustified Seraphim vote... I don't think I see anything in this post I do like.

[PING Vi] You're asking rhinox if he has any suspicions, when yours are haphazard and sloppy at best.

Waiting for someone to chase the CESredherring...
...

Alright, we have a taker

[PING LLD] This sudden push on CES looks pretty forced and an attempt to divert attention (see: "CES needs more votes and more pressure...")

[PING Vi] You're OK with that recent LLD behavior, but some....inexplicable thing in Jahudo's ISO is making you "twitch". Yeah, OK.

WTF, Greyice, WTF?

[PING LLD] Soft attacks are scummy, and in your case, hypocritical

Toasty Hm, if you keep being reasonable, I might have to stop suspecting you...

[PING LLD] The "why me" scumtell might be the crappiest scumtell ever. Also, if you really think he's scum, you shouldn't have any problem putting him at L1 and wouldn't need to ask for confirmation first. Actions and convictions are really not matching up here.

[PING LLD] You remember who was calling you an opportunist a while ago? I don't either, but I agree with her.

Next vote is an attempt at a comeback, but kind of fails in that OMGUS isn't a scumtell (and neither is AtE), and there's no hypocrisy when you think about it.

*facepalm Greyice*

...it seems we've descended into a slapfight... great

Antitown · Post Post #416 (ISO) » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:55 pm

more tomorrow morning, I promise.

-AH

Rhinox · Post Post #417 (ISO) » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:56 pm

Nachomamma8 wrote:
Rhinox wrote: have a bad habit of my fingers not always doing the same thing my brain is thinking while I'm typing.
If anyone needs me to, I'll go dig up a recent game where I did the exact same thing.
Why did you need to tag on the bolded?

obviously because it was a real scumslip and I wanted to cover my ass

umm, idk why actually.

Lady Lambdadelta wrote:@Rhinox: Who else is scum? Besides GreyICE what's your next top scum read?

did I just say I was going to look at toasty and others I've been ignoring up until now? I mean seriously, it was like 2 posts back.

And no I didn't do it yet. I'll do it tomorrow.

greyICE, why so hostile all of a sudden?

Antitown · Post Post #418 (ISO) » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:56 pm

GreyICE wrote:You are so fucking scum it hurts Toasty. Die in a fucking fire, you failure.

grey, I know you're better than this. Don't ever say something like this. Ever again.

-AH

UncertainKitten · Post Post #419 (ISO) » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:59 pm

@AT: That's really cool and I appreciate the format, but I'm kind of guilty of some of those things listed. Why aren't you pinging me at all?

Lady Lambdadelta · Post Post #420 (ISO) » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:16 pm

@AT: For the L-1 thing. I wasn't asking because I wanted to know if it was ok. I was asking because I didn't want to accidentally hammer Seraphim.

For the CES thing... I had no idea what the he'll he was doing. I sort of get his game now... But he appeared to just be jumpin on whatever wagon he wanted.

The soft attacking thing... I don't see the problem with me telling him that he wasn't simply going to be given the answer...

Kdub · Post Post #421 (ISO) » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:30 pm

GreyICE wrote:I removed my vote because ToastyToast is fucking acting scummy as shit right now, and I'm surprised more people haven't commented on it. Seriously, look at that post. That is such a fucking scum post. It feels like scum celebrating about the day 1 bandwagons. "Oh if one's town I'll lynch the other!"

It's the first fucking thing in this game that makes me think Seraphim is town, because that post screams SCUM in mile high letters.

Why can't Toasty be town who legitimately sees one of you as scum and one as town? The fact that you immediately came to the conclusion that Toasty was doing this from a scum motivation even though you thought Seraphim was scum seems strange.

Actually, before I say anything else...

Seraphim:
Since you think GreyICE and Toasty are both scum, what is your take on GreyICE's attack on Toasty? Is it still bussing?

Seraphim · Post Post #422 (ISO) » Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:29 am

In all complete honesty, I could definitely see GreyICE trying to attack Toasty as a distancing attempt if he thought he was going to be lynched for sure.

I think speculating about it is sorta pointless at this juncture until one of them flips.

Antitown · Post Post #423 (ISO) » Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:31 am

UncertainKitten wrote:@AT: That's really cool and I appreciate the format, but I'm kind of guilty of some of those things listed. Why aren't you pinging me at all?

Specifically, what do you mean? Context is key.

Alright, moving on.

Vi 178 Asking where nacho is. Mental note: look for a followup to this

Jahudo 188 Vote is still on Vi (and still "random" as far as I can tell), but it looks like he doesn't like Seraphim. It's already page 8, what's up with this?

Rhinox 214

This

post made me *twitch*. First off, the glossing over of the two major wagons. Second, the kind of sucky vote on GreyICE. Yeah, reads change, what's your point?

Seraphim 220 LLD isn't an idiot, and I don't want to read another post like this. Ever.

Oh, and Vi-Nacho update: no follow up.

Vi 252 Oh, there's the "don't argue with scum" horsehockey.

Got to go now. Sorry.

More later.

UncertainKitten · Post Post #424 (ISO) » Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:17 am

-"inexplicable thing in Jahudo's ISO is making you "twitch". Yeah, OK.

I saw that and agreed with Vi.

- "The "why me" scumtell might be the crappiest scumtell ever."

I'm pretty sure I said it bugged me. The why meness.

So, yeah, actually, not as bad as I thought. Just I've supported some of the "scummy" things you've pinged and yet and absent from your list.

It just felt weird.