Mini 1137: Long Overdue Mafia [Game Over!]

[Voidedmafia]

EBWOP: And that his gut feeling isn't enough to me.

[Xalxe]

dammit lost the post

Anyway, my top 2 would be you and pappums obv obv, my #3 would actually be PT Barnum for this nugget:

I'll mostly be posting in the evening EST. I enjoy brevity.

Vote Idiotking

. Wagon.

For trying to distance himself from Jahudo.

How so?

Where he tries to defend me, which, quite honestly, bothers me.

[Voidedmafia]

Why does it bother you that he's defending you? You think he's buddying you or trying to cover up something?

[Xalxe]

Why does it bother you that he's defending you? You think he's buddying you or trying to cover up something?

The first, yes. I think that if he were ever to turn up scum, that's an easy way to say ZOMG XALXE PARTNER LYNCHLYNCHLYNCH.

[Voidedmafia]

Why does it bother you that he's defending you? You think he's buddying you or trying to cover up something?

The first, yes. I think that if he were ever to turn up scum, that's an easy way to say ZOMG XALXE PARTNER LYNCHLYNCHLYNCH.

well, I could see how you could draw that conclusion.

Also, beyond Pappum's claim, what makes you think I'm your top (or 2nd) suspect?

[Xalxe]

Nope, pappums' claim. That's it, but it's certainly an issue that can't be avoided.

[Voidedmafia]

Nope, pappums' claim. That's it, but it's certainly an issue that can't be avoided.

Sadly enough.

Anyways, my two suspects are Rat, ofc, for his claim, and jinxx because he has almost nothing behind his vote. I'm not counting the claim with him because he's kept his vote on me before that came up. Beyond that, I can't really choose anyone because their primary reason for voting me is becasue of Pappum's claim. I do wonder if something can be made out of that IK/you/Jahudo stuff, though, but I'm not sure what, exactly.

[andrew94]

voided mafia, it would be wise to claim now

[mikemike778]

Nobody hammer until pappums gets back to the thread and answers questions and then some.

Agreed 100%

Rat specifically said -

Do not quick lynch

. Given the timing, its possible its a (town) fake claim intended to check for reactions. Pretty dangerous strategy if it is but nontheless at least wait for him to get back - its not like we are racing againt time to meet the deadline.

[Voidedmafia]

voided mafia, it would be wise to claim now

Andrew, it would be wise to start participating more.

Anyways, I claim Neighbor. 'Course, since we're still not N1 yet, I haven't picked anyone, but yeah.

[pappums rat]

unvote

only because i dont want anyone hammering yet. we can still milk this day for more scum. more coming very shortly.

[Voidedmafia]

...

YOU'RE THE ONE WHO PUSHED MY LYNCH IN THE FIRST PLACE!!

[pappums rat]

Rather quick with that reveal, aren't you? Maybe YOU'RE worried about your scumbuddy instead?

But then, that raises the question: Why go after me, then, since I haven't really tried to go after you?

...wait...YOU DON'T SAY WHAT YOUR PM TELLS YOU, YOU IDIOT.

what 'scumbuddy' are you talking about?
what does

'Why go after me, then, since I haven't really tried to go after you?'

mean? shouldnt i go after whoever came up as scum in my investigation?

quoting

a pm is against the rules, not paraphrasing.

My point is that there's absolutely no reason to claim such a role now, which makes me wonder why he didi it. The first question that came to mind was if HE was trying to get protection for scumbuddies. I don't know if it's true, though, but it's the first question that came to me.

All in all, this is a VERY suspicious post that pappums has made.

there is a reason to claim, i have irrefutable proof that you are scum. (i used my one-shot early because i had a very good gut feeling that voidedmafia was scum).
why is my post suspicious? does it make sense for scum to make this kind of insane play, especially against a new player?
why would scum do something like this to ease pressure off of their buddies?

Honestly, this sounds more like Rat just picked a random target and then just decided to give him a guilty verdict.

However, I believe that in this kind of game there can also be naive or insane or paranoid cops, which would make his claim practically useless otherwise.

The one big overhanding question, though, is this: Why the hell didya pick me? Don't like the fact that I'm not really participating? Still ticked off that I didn't participate in RVS?

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_game

'Roles which are explicitly Non-Normal include:
Non-Sane Cops, Blanks/Quacks, Janitor, Survivor, Lyncher, Cultist, Jester, Scum Masons, Bus Driver, Lightning Rod, Nexus, Redirector.'

eod.

And right now I'm just focusing more on proving that rat's claim is false and stupid without getting myself lynched in the process. If I escape this particular hole, I'd be glad to start scumhunting again.
[/quote

why do you say my claim is stupid? you cant prove my claim is false because my role is allowed in normal games.

voided mafia, it would be wise to claim now

Andrew, it would be wise to start participating more.

Anyways, I claim Neighbor. 'Course, since we're still not N1 yet, I haven't picked anyone, but yeah.

what do you mean 'i havent picked anyone'? neighbors dont pick who they want to be neighbors with, they are assigned a person at the beginning of the game.

[Voidedmafia]

Rather quick with that reveal, aren't you? Maybe YOU'RE worried about your scumbuddy instead?

But then, that raises the question: Why go after me, then, since I haven't really tried to go after you?

...wait...YOU DON'T SAY WHAT YOUR PM TELLS YOU, YOU IDIOT.

what 'scumbuddy' are you talking about?
what does

'Why go after me, then, since I haven't really tried to go after you?'

mean? shouldnt i go after whoever came up as scum in my investigation?

quoting

a pm is against the rules, not paraphrasing.

I'm not going to answer that first part, because that should be obvious enough.

You just decided to pick on me, given nothing other than the fact that I did not wish to participate in RVS, and came up with a guilty. I find it pretty intriguing that I'm the one you picked over someone else, like IdiotKing, for example. Though, now that you mention it, nearly every post of yours has had something to do with me, all of 'em acting as if I am scum.

My point is that there's absolutely no reason to claim such a role now, which makes me wonder why he didi it. The first question that came to mind was if HE was trying to get protection for scumbuddies. I don't know if it's true, though, but it's the first question that came to me.

All in all, this is a VERY suspicious post that pappums has made.

there is a reason to claim, i have irrefutable proof that you are scum. (i used my one-shot early because i had a very good gut feeling that voidedmafia was scum).
why is my post suspicious? does it make sense for scum to make this kind of insane play, especially against a new player?
why would scum do something like this to ease pressure off of their buddies?

to

YOU

, it's irrefutable. To us...not so much. Also, I'd call myself anti-town more than scummy.

I'm not technically new, but still.

why wouldn't they? It gives the town something else to think about, and in this case, someone else to lynch.

And right now I'm just focusing more on proving that rat's claim is false and stupid without getting myself lynched in the process. If I escape this particular hole, I'd be glad to start scumhunting again.

why do you say my claim is stupid? you cant prove my claim is false because my role is allowed in normal games.

I say it's stupid because it's wrong. And I have irrefutable proof of that, since a Neighbor is town.

voided mafia, it would be wise to claim now

Andrew, it would be wise to start participating more.

Anyways, I claim Neighbor. 'Course, since we're still not N1 yet, I haven't picked anyone, but yeah.

what do you mean 'i havent picked anyone'? neighbors dont pick who they want to be neighbors with, they are assigned a person at the beginning of the game.[/quote]
Yeah they do. -_-

[pappums rat]

i am fairly sure havingfitz is a scumbuddy of vm's. these posts are just terrible:

I agree that pappum's claim was very premature. Assuming he is telling the truth (which I believe he is) it is coming so early in the day that Voided's scum buddies will not do anything to link themselves to him. So we have essentially lost the ability to gather potentially good interations between scum partners. Best thing to do IMO is to just eliminate Voided and if by some chance pappums is not being truthful...lynch him. I would think everything else from this point on with respect to Voided is going to be WIFOM.

VOTE: Voidedmafia

How are other scum going to be pressured? Are they at risk of being lynched today?

If they aren't at risk of being lynched today all your "pressuring" is going to serve to do is to allow the remaining scum (assuming Void is in fact scum) to intelligently manipulate who they NK based on what type of pressure to do or do not recieve. Ex....we all mistakenly focus on a townie and "pressure" him. Then we lynch Void...and scum NK's one of the pressured townies main opponents. That sets up the townies mislynch tomorrow. I'm sure scum could equally come up with a beneficial way of selecting their nk as well if the pressure was appropriately placed (ie on scum). The concept is the same as voting for a no lynch without any discussion when that is deemed the right move. IMO the right move now is to prove out pappum's investigation result.

tl:dr;

If we have identified scum it is in town's best interest to eliminate asap vs letting scum manipulate or assess town. At this early stage of the game scum may not have the best idea who is the most obvtown or most dangerous town to keep alive.

wanting the day to end early is anti-town, and this sort of thing is exactly what i was hoping for with extending the day past just lynching vm. your desire to get to night early shows that you dont want town doing what they do (discussing and coming to conclusions about who is scum). your reason for wanting night to come early is illogical at best, and scum-motivated at worst.

This looks more like a gambit to me than the alternative options (pappums scum lying, pappums town telling the truth). I know some people like to cop hard to read roles or VI's, so his target would make sense but I think it would make more sense to hold off on using a one shot power in case someone else becomes even more hard to read after 10, 15 pages.

If this isn't a gambit then naturally I think pappums would be telling the truth. Scum wouldn't want to create a "me or him situation" when it would be easy to lynch both. As scum he would have at least given himself an out. So if this isn't a lynch, voided is scum and pappums town.

Though it is also a good idea to keep talking and think how scum would react in these different scenarios, after everyone has reacted of course. I have a few ideas based on other games.

i see this as anti-town. if you believed my claim to be a gambit, you should have let it take it's course to see what sort of blunders the scumteam would make. i see this as tipping your scumbuddies off to keep their mouth's shut and not do anything incriminating.



and for the record vm, the pm explicitly stated that i am sane.

once again, no one hammer vm. if you do without us all discussing this in full, you will have earned the title of 'honorary scum' in my book if you are town.

p. edit: mason is town, neighbors are unconfirmed.

[havingfitz]

pappum....what is illogical about my reasons supporting a quick voided vote? What point or points that I made do you not understand or disagree with. Please elaborate. Your early claim was poor play and your ego at thinking you have pegged a scumbuddy based on my posts is ridiculous. The fact you think I am scum bussing my partner only supports my comment that everything to do with your finding on voided from this point on is going to be WIFOM and do town no good. And the longer the day goes before we do lynch voided the more time town has to screw itself over....more so IMO than scum does.

[Jahudo]

Neighbors don't choose their night talk partners.

i see this as anti-town. if you believed my claim to be a gambit, you should have let it take it's course to see what sort of blunders the scumteam would make. i see this as tipping your scumbuddies off to keep their mouth's shut and not do anything incriminating.

I didn't see a point to keeping quiet about that. If voided is mafia, scum would assume you were telling the truth even if you pulled a gambit and got lucky. If voided is not mafia, they would know you were either pulling a gambit or accidentally targetted a miller. Either way they would have much more information than townies during a fast-paced part of the game. I feel it is important that townies consider all scenarios then so there isn't any quicklynch despite your request or a backlash in case you did say you pulled a gambit and a quick wagon formed on you.

---

Voided looks like he could be trying to reason with Xalxe and Mikemike in post 113, like they could be townies he could get on his side still. And then he suspects Jinxx in post 131. I wonder if he would think to distance at that point, or if he still thinks he could swing a lynch that's not himself or pappums. Maybe Jinxx is town too, although I feel a little more confident about the post 113 tell.

[Voidedmafia]

Neighbors don't choose their night talk partners.

Well, I can't say anymore since that'd be talking about my PM, but yes I can.

Voided looks like he could be trying to reason with Xalxe and Mikemike in post 113, like they could be townies he could get on his side still. And then he suspects Jinxx in post 131. I wonder if he would think to distance at that point, or if he still thinks he could swing a lynch that's not himself or pappums. Maybe Jinxx is town too, although I feel a little more confident about the post 113 tell.

I'd prefer to get the lynch away from me, maybe onto pappums or Jinxx. Really, anyone but me until I get out of this mess.

What tell does 113 give you? At that point I honestly thought cops other than Sane were available to Mini Normals.

[Xalxe]

OKAY STOP

pappums, why aren't we lynching your guilty again? Please, please don't tell me you're gambiting.

[pappums rat]

xalxe, we are not lynching him yet because there is still much to be gleaned from what people can still put into this day.

not quicklynching voidedmafia has allowed me to get a number of town- and scumreads, and i hope it has done the same for other people as well.

i did an

exhausting

(lol) re-read of the game, and i am definately not liking havingfitz' call for a policy lynch on andrew. if andrew had been actively doing anti-town things and was being a menace, then i probably would have went along with it, as i agree with pl's a good deal of the time. but when it was based solely on meta, i dont think so. combined with his rush to get this day over, he is my #2 scumread atm.

i didnt think this post by xalxe was really necessary:

I agree with Cecily. I think this claim has put us in a weird position, but there are really only a few options today.

Option 1: Lynch voidedmafia today

If he's scum, pappums is both clear and an obv nightkill target.
If he's town, pappums is the D2 lynch.

Option 2: Lynch pappums rat today

If he's scum, voided is most likely town, unless this is a fucking brilliant gambit.
If he's town one-shot cop, voided is mafia.
If he's vanilla town, he's a moron.

Option 3: Lynch somebody else scummy

If pappums is legit one-shot cop and voided is mafia, scum have to keep him alive or out voided as mafia.
If both are town, pappums dies, voided is mislynched.
If both are scum...???

To me, the best plan appears to be a voided lynch, as we're more likely to catch scums. VOTE: voidedmafia

i dont see why lynching me was ever really an option.

i can see where jahudo is coming from with his reasoning for him saying he thought my claim was a gambit.

what i really want to know is:

what does everyone think of voidedmafia's defense of himself?

[Xalxe]

pappums: Lynching you is/was an option where we believe you are liarscum, so we lynch you to test. Obviously this is sub-optimal.

Also, voided's defense is...better than I expected, actually. He hasn't laid down without a fight.

[Voidedmafia]

pappums: Lynching you is/was an option where we believe you are liarscum, so we lynch you to test. Obviously this is sub-optimal.

Also, voided's defense is...better than I expected, actually. He hasn't laid down without a fight.

what if he is liartown, instead? It's certainly a possibility, though I still think he's a liarscum.

And thanks, I guess.

Rat: and what do YOU think of my defense?

[Idiotking]

Unvote

Because the Xalxe thing seems like small potatoes now.

I am very, very wary of anybody who acts purely on gut, as pappums seems to have done. And to waste a one-shot ability on D1, on a gut feeling... that's just terrible play, in my opinion. I do not believe pappums one tiny bit. I also do not believe that, assuming that voided did turn up mafia, it would clear pappums. This could easily be a scum gambit to get voided lynched and have pappums "confirmed", when he is in fact voided's scumbuddy. Under this assumption it would make sense that voided would try to defend himself, 1. because then it wouldn't be obvious that it's a gambit, and 2. they (probably) wouldn't have planned it out like this, so it would catch voided by surprise.

Whether voided is scum or not, I don't believe pappums' claim at all. It just seems terrible play no matter how I think about it. If he's actually a 1-shot day cop,

why use the ability so early?!

If he's pulling a townie gambit, that's also bad. I don't like gambits because they mislead the town. If he's scum, then there's no reason to do something like this, unless he's pulling a gamble like I mentioned above.

[havingfitz]

Honestly, this sounds more like Rat just picked a random target and then just decided to give him a guilty verdict.

However, I believe that in this kind of game there can also be naive or insane or paranoid cops, which would make his claim practically useless otherwise.

The one big overhanding question, though, is this: Why the hell didya pick me? Don't like the fact that I'm not really participating? Still ticked off that I didn't participate in RVS?

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_game

'Roles which are explicitly Non-Normal include:
Non-Sane Cops, Blanks/Quacks, Janitor, Survivor, Lyncher, Cultist, Jester, Scum Masons, Bus Driver, Lightning Rod, Nexus, Redirector.'

eod.

Not exactly eod...

Mini Normal Games

[*]There can only be a maximum of one new/variant role in the game.
[*]Only normal mechanics and roles (

besides the single variant

) are allowed. See here for more information.

That said, until we have a voided flip I am inclined to believe your investigation.

Also pappums...you failed to answer my questions to you.

[mikemike778]

what i really want to know is:

what does everyone think of voidedmafia's defense of himself?

As good as could be expected but really there's absolutely no reason for him not to ultimately be the day's lynch. If Rat is scum it doesn'tmake any sense for him whatsoever to claim the guilty on Voided unless its a gambit, either way Voided is probably scum.

i did an

exhausting

(lol) re-read of the game, and i am definately not liking havingfitz' call for a policy lynch on andrew. if andrew had been actively doing anti-town things and was being a menace, then i probably would have went along with it, as i agree with pl's a good deal of the time. but when it was based solely on meta, i dont think so. combined with his rush to get this day over, he is my #2 scumread atm.

Agreed 100% - as discussed earlier, both these examples indicate Fitz avoidin talking about what was happenning in the game both by discussing PL and then attempting to end - if he did end up turning up scum, makes me wonder if there was some sort of minor scum slip early on, he was looking to avoid talking about.

Voided to answer one of your other questions, I've no other reason than the Rat claim to vote for you (not that my vote is being used currently but you know what I mean) but given that its Day 1, thats more than a good enough reason in itself.