Mafia 125: Khan's Game of Mafia (Game Over)

[yabbaguy]

...in a clearly stated way.

[RedCoyote]

And I'm not "lashing out at quotes in a random fashion". I'm engaging multiple people various ways in an organized, chronological order (like I've been doing all game in every game I've ever played here including the time I was town with you). And you have a pretty lame definition of "lashing out" if that's your threshold.

[Korlash]

No, I don't buy that RC. Xtoxm clearly laid out that he had, and therefore probably would, go down the tactics of picking the Towniest person he thought would not die.

As much as I hate to butt in here, his reasons for picking a townie person was simply because he had to make a decision at a moments notice. The way he said it implied that would not have been the way he would choose a target had he been given more time. Thinking he would choose a target last night under the same logic he used the first night would be retarded on our part. Add in his attitude toward the game he showed yesterday, and its highly likely he would have picked someone he thought was scum. he seemed bored, almost outright tired with the game. I wouldn't be surprised if he choose a target with the expected outcome to be his own death and subsequent removal from the game.

Sure I'd love to believe he played the role trying to confirm town, but that wouldn't match up with what he said and the implications he gave yesterday.

[Kublai Khan]

@MOD: what happens first in the night action resolution in this game, hiding or blocking?

That is not information provided to players in this game.

[Kublai Khan]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 7

"If the world should blow itself up, the last audible voice would be that of an expert saying it can't be done."

- Peter Ustinov

SpyreX

- 2 - Kmd4390, iamausername

inHimshallibe

- 1 - RedCoyote

RedCoyote

- 1 - yabbaguy

Players not voting:

Antihero, DrippingGoofball, PokerFace, SpyreX, Dutch one, Korlash, Cyberbob, inHimshallibe, Weatherman

Notes/Prods

:
- No prods
- Current Deadline: Secret

[Cyberbob]

Okay.

CKD's flip didn't really come as a surprise but I was a little nonplussed at nocase being town given my read on him yesterday. Oh well.

I think there's no question of there being scum in either DGB or inHim (or both), if I had to pick one I would probably lean towards inHim on account of his really sketchy voting habits yesterday - though that Kmd vote from DGB was seriously questionable as well. SpyreX... the case there is based on interactions with ckd, right? I'll have to go back and have a look at that again myself before passing judgement but I will just note that the Spy wagon initially grew very very quickly and only a small minority of those votes were backed up by anything. Need to keep an eye out for scum just going with the flow on their partner's wagon to avoid being called out later on for defending them. Weatherman looks a little suspect in this regard

stream-of-consciousnessing right now, more possibly to come in a bit

[Dutch one]

I have to go to school (and things like that) now, but I will post my reads later today. (I'm posting this because I'm afraid of getting another prod now when I'm just not able to post)

[SpyreX]

Ohh look more staggering dutch one. I swear against everything about that one.

But:

And hey, curiouskarmadog is on the list. Obviously, he was quite wrong, but maybe quite literally he was dead wrong and hid with him. In that case, we have no further business to discuss.

But aside from that, there are plenty of other Town people and I also think he was Nightkilled manually by the factional kill.

How, praytell, does this work?

----

More importantly:

Well that would still leave the assumed vig's kill MOA, and i see no suggestion CKD's role would prevent

the other scum

from also killing. Meaning their second kill would be AWOL as well. CKD bombing Nocase is a bigger stretch then the spanish Inquisition... yeah yeah...

werewolf555 - Vanilla Townie - Killed Night 1
farside22 - Doctor - Killed Night 1
Xalxe - Delayer Serial Killer - Killed Night 1

Three kills. One obviously a vig (WW), the other the SK (Farside), the final being the scum (Xalxe)

Seraphim Xtoxm - Hider, was killed on Night 2
curiouskarmadog - Mafia Suicide Bomber, was killed on Night 2
nocase - Vanilla Townie, was killed on Night 2

Three kills. One probably a vig (CKD), one the scum (nocase) with either hid behind scum OR hid behind nocase.

And, of course, once again:

curiouskarmadog - Mafia Suicide Bomber, was killed on Night 2.

No adjectives for the mafia.

Thats now you and DGB who've both done this.

Please, Antihero, tell me you threw out an RB somewhere awesome and we can start entertaining tinfoil theories because this business is more than a little chicanery.

----

And then and you can sure add this to the VCA:

inHim, KMD, IAUN, RC, Weatherman

There's one there. Maybe two. It gets even better when you remember KMD is probably town.

And, really, I can hand you one FO SHO on a platter:

Unvote, Vote: RC

The chevre jump at the end (with the flip now clearly 'blaming' IAUN with a 180) is bad. The "I agree with SpyreX 100%" to "I wouldn't miss SpyreX because of CKD" is worse.

And, please ohh great and holy vig, if I get this and I'm right shoot dutch for me. TIA.

And, additionally, if a scum faction that isn't simply "mafia" flips DGB and Kor have some serious 'splainin to do.

[RedCoyote]

I'm not blaming username in the sense that I'm calling him scum. I made it clear that I willingly drank his kool-aid. He's very much town. I was just pointing out that we could've avoided a mislynch yesterday had more people been more enthused (even Chevre). The game stalled and there wasn't any real argument against Chevre. You threw a word about Dutch every once and a while, but that was probably just to stop any prods.

Of course any sort of 100% quote, probably something dug up during D1 because I don't really remember it, would be subject to change over the course of, oh, 60 pages or so.

[SpyreX]

Yea, that is what happened:

Agree with Spy 100% in all things said over the past couple of pages.

Unvote; vote: Dutch_one

I don't look forward to another ten pages of debate between Chevre, Dutch, or a PF lynch. We've got firm proponents in all sides, I think.

I really think we should go in one of these directions. I don't particularly care as to which one. I wouldn't miss either of these folks much at this point.

I'm also skimming over ckd's posts in isolation. I absolutely do not like his interactions with DGB or Spyrex. With DGB every argument just looks so pitty-pat. These weak, forced little spats they have with one another throughout the course of the game.

With Spyrex it's completely opposite. I did not see one interaction with Spyrex at all.

In any case, I'm fairly confident that one of these two people are scum. This is easily the biggest lead we have to work off of.

[RedCoyote]

The point is that now two people are trying to twist my honest interpretation of Xtoxm into something sinister. Probably only one of them is doing so for town reasons.

[SpyreX]

So, not even going to address that wasn't "something dug up from D1" and actually "7 RC posts between"?

And it's pretty damn direct:

You tossed aside, again, your 'read' to jump onto the bandwagon.

Gorrad - 11 - iamausername, Cyberbob, SpyreX, Antihero, inHimshallibe, yabbaguy, nocase, farside22, Dutch one, Dripping Goofball, RedCoyote
Chevre - 9 - iamausername, yabbaguy, inHimshallibe, nocase, Kmd4390, cyberbob, Dutch one, Pokerface, RedCoyote

Something look... interesting here?

[RedCoyote]

No, it looks like someone trying to move this long, boring game along because the only time the town gets crap done is during the night.

And what is there to address? I'm not going to go poring through my history over something so trivial.

You advocated a Dutch lynch.
I agreed with that.
Dutch convinced me otherwise.
I agreed with that more recently.
Xtoxm died as a Hider.
He has you listed as scum.

End of story.

[RedCoyote]

So quit being part of the problem and start being part of the solution. Voting inHim would be a good start.

[SpyreX]

I'm almost ready for bed.

I'll go into further detail tomorrow which, again, will probably involve me pulling more hair out but I will.

So, before I sleep, I issue a challenge to the game at large:

Read RC's ISO.

There's one thing very, very specific I want to see if someone finds. Its a pattern, a delicious one.

[Kmd4390]

Unvote, Vote Inhim

[DrippingGoofball]

WOW

Moonbeams, at last.

RedCoyote and KMD are scum.

[PokerFace]

Reads

Cyberbob

- given the ckd flip he is town given their previous exchange

Antihero

- town

iamausernam

e - town

yabbaguy

- town

Weatherman

- Still thinking town even though his unvote of spyreX felt bad. Seriously why do Vanilla claims ever deter anything? I don't get it

Kmd4390

- Nuetral, no firm pull either way but he hasn't done anything truly scummy in my mind

Dutch one

- Nuetral, given chevre's flip and a couple other things I'm not really certain what to think. Hoping he gets time to give some new good activity to solve all that

inHimshallibe

- Something he has done with wagon riding and reads have sparked me as odd. I get the feeling he is not closely following the game. Is quick unvote of SpyreX felt bad though

RedCoyote

- When the spyreX wagon started he was all its any man's guess where xtoxm went and then he changed opinions. I get the feeling he is scum riding on the coast of opinions so he can go and attack either way

DrippingGoofball

- Really hating all of her play except they day 1 stuff. I could see her as scum

Korlash and SpyreX

. One of them needs to die. Anyway I look at it Xtoxm had to go one of these 2 ways. No doubt in my mind. Looking over CKD, didn't lead me to either of them. Looking over SpyreX and Korlash I think this statement is true

The first person to stand out to me was Spy, so i guess the read up focused on him more then anyone else. But I like the content I was able to amass in my notes on him so I'll stay where i am before attempting a second read-up. So lets get somethings down on paper.

...

4* His skirting of the question who besides gorrad is scummy, saying Xalxe is his number two, yet I can't recall him ever saying anything about Xalxe. (If he did it didn't make my notes.) I don't see how CKD isn't his number two... I'm fairly sure He's mentioned the link with Gorrad more times then he's mentioned Xalxe...

** - Or at least make his case look better/stronger for it.
*** - Not actually saying you ever said this, but mentioning it as a preemptive so you can't use it as a reason for why you did it.
**** - I think that's what he meant. i never fully understood his post 463.
***** - Huge exaggeration on my part. But it's honestly the first reaction I had to his comment.

The only point in Spy's favor is that he doesn't want to go after CKD before Gorrad, but it only helps show how little he has talked about CKD on his own. for someone who has said multiple times "Gorrad-CKD scum pair yuk yuk yuk" I would think he would care enough to say something about CKD...

I'm going to

vote: spyrex

like I said I do feel i was slightly bias on my reread paying more attention to the first person to strike me as 'scummy', but the end result is too good to ignore. I'm all for the 'whatever' wagons, like Chev's and the soon-to-be Gorrad one, but a lot of you have mentioned Spy's stuff as being good, or well explained, or making sense... and it is plain and clear bullshit.

Vote: SpyreX

In my head I am batting arround the idea of a CKD, SpyreX, DGB, RedCoy scum team. Sounds pretty darn good at the moment. Inhim could replace Red in that possibility but red is making more sence in the pairing at the moment. If SpyreX is scum that would def confirm Korlash isn't scum to me. Cyberbob is already good and town and most of my other town reads are strong

[SpyreX]

You're killing me game.

Breakin' my heart.

[DrippingGoofball]

Oh wait

SpyreX and CKD were interacting like buddies. I'll blame #1516 on too much vodka, but it's just to save face.

[Weatherman]

My life sucks mafiawise atm. Another foreign city with crappy hotel and crappy internet. I'll try to get up early tomorrow morning to make my post.

Weatherman

- Still thinking town even though his unvote of spyreX felt bad. Seriously why do Vanilla claims ever deter anything? I don't get it

...that's the

point

, they rarely ever do. we're up from the lowest point of site meta ebb and flow - that was claiming vanilla under wagon pressure=> very close to certain lynch => scum motivation to claiming vanilla (massclaim/claim not under pressure is obv a whole other story) extremely low.
it's gotten more mixed. but a premature vanilla claim under pressure still gives me pause.

DGB seems

biased

about Spy, I found his D2 horrid.
I still find DGB town though. Do you guys have an affectionate history?

[RedCoyote]

I'll blame #1516 on too much vodka, but it's just to save face.

*phew*

I was worried for a second there that you had caught us.

[Weatherman]

...hey, wait a minute, if that applies then antihero wouldn't have blocked Xtoxm N1 and yabba would be confirmed again!

Explain. When was he not confirmed?

anti blocked xtoxm n1, unclear about resolution order.

RC, why do you interpret Xtoxm was hitting scumß?

do you know what i hate about europe? every fucking little country has different keyboards.

[Korlash]

Ok cool,

Vote: spy

i'm not putting a whole lot into the Xtoxm breadcrumb, don't get me wrong I know that as an outed hider he had to in some way breadcrumb his target (logically speaking) but I'm not going to bank anything on it. (the fact i seem to think a hider is about finding scum and everyone else says it's about confirming town just suggests I wouldn't know what I was talking about anyway.)

However seeing as how there is a connection to you and CKD (which I apparently found... Hard to argue with it then I suppose), the wagon isn't as close to death as it was, and you've had some time to get a few words in edgewise I have no objections to putting my vote back on you. Seeing how I've spent the last two days, I don't think I need to go into it too much more. I still want to take the time to look at CKD myself, but I'm willing to trust my past instincts atm. Oh and the usual 'Die Scott Die' blah blah as well. have to get those low blows in while I still can you know.

If SpyreX is scum that would def confirm Korlash isn't scum to me.

I'm interested in why. Wouldn't Spy as scum make me questionable? Not only have I been "arguably" focused on him almost all game, but isn't he the one that mentioned some sort of "town tell" I did? I would think that would at least be evidence of a possible buddy relationship. Hey, I'm all for being "confirmed town" in any which way I can, but I'd like to know why if it's possible.

[Korlash]

anti blocked xtoxm n1, unclear about resolution order.

RC, why do you interpret Xtoxm was hitting scumß?

do you know what i hate about europe? every fucking little country has different keyboards.

I've had this discussion myself in another forum when I modded a game. The enigma in that one had to do with multiple RBers and what not, not important. Anywho, the way I see it, based, if nothing, else simply on the way Doc protection works, the "defensive" abilities would trigger first. (hell yeah I got a magic reference in...)

Assuming all actions happen, theoretically, "simultaneously", then a scum (or other) attempting to kill someone protected by a doctor fails, because the Doctor's ability is accounted for first. I would assume in much the same sense, a hider's ability would always hit the stack (hell yeah I did it again!) first over any other "targets" simply because it follows the defensive pattern. You would have to take into account all the "protective" roles of any sort before going on to the aggressive roles (kills, investigations, blocks, etc.) otherwise you make the defensive roles worthless.

In short, based on Krapyrighted Theory, a hider should beat a Roleblocker every time. Doubt I said anything worthwhile, but it was fun to pretend to know what I was talking about for a few minutes.