American Gods Mafia - Game over

[farside22]

@Saint:

My comment about Agar is he is saying that Ghostlin had a higher level of commitment to the wagon after he made his point about the large game BW theory
there was more to my comment after (which I don't like repeating myself but apparently is required by some) was this:

Needless to say I find that a bit reaching. A person who feels someone is scum will push on the lynch too, or as you stated have a higher level of commitment to the wagon. I don't like people who use idea's and twist things to make someone looks scummier.

What is the point in that? It doesn't make sense

I see someone pushing for a quick lynch. I asked how long he had been on MS as Day 1 usually takes at least 2 weeks especially in large games.

Farside still pushing for ani-town reasoning... egh. His iso 1 is a town post, he shows no freakout over me trying to get him lynched on policy, he is making elects he thinks is best for the town, he is pushing a case. I just read town up and down from it. Nothing else is scummy, so he is leaning town.

So him pushing a bad case on an easy lynch goes out the window? No thought on scum buddying townies?

The ghostlin case actually makes to take a step back and reevulate.

[LlamaFluff]

Farside still pushing for ani-town reasoning... egh. His iso 1 is a town post, he shows no freakout over me trying to get him lynched on policy, he is making elects he thinks is best for the town, he is pushing a case. I just read town up and down from it. Nothing else is scummy, so he is leaning town.

So him pushing a bad case on an easy lynch goes out the window? No thought on scum buddying townies?

I dont think he is doing it in an scum motivation manner, especially the first WC one which I actually dont see as a bad spot to look at this point in the game. The SGR one is weaker, but it doesnt cancel out everything else that he has done making him look town.

The ghostlin case actually makes to take a step back and reevulate.

What?

[farside22]

I keep going back and forth on Ghost when I read him. Your case makes me want to step back and re-evaluate everything all over again.

[farside22]

Alright did another glance. One question to Ghost.
Who are your scum suspects and why?

maybe this question won't be ignored this time, as you have yet to answer my question about ythill.

Llama: Although you point on morph seem's reasonable, his play reminds me of another game I was in with him where he was scum. I see him pushing easy lynches with weak reasoning and lurking. I remember another game we were in with him and morph was town, so I will look at the 2 games and compare and get back with a final analysis on it.

[LlamaFluff]

Llama: Although you point on morph seem's reasonable, his play reminds me of another game I was in with him where he was scum. I see him pushing easy lynches with weak reasoning and lurking. I remember another game we were in with him and morph was town, so I will look at the 2 games and compare and get back with a final analysis on it.

Yeah I remember that game... a good example of how I always tend to think he is scum.

[Saint]

a couple of scummy people electing seacore...

unelect: myself
unelect: agar
elect: LlamaFluff
elect: Locke Lamora

What are peoples opinions on electing LL? I would be happy with him being elected. He doesn't have enough support!

@apokalyptica

I said, and I quote "I feel like MoI's play has been scummy due to replacing in"
How is that me having him as a suspect?
The 1 out of the 3 I am pretty sure of was obvious if you knew how to read

Yeah, I was just thinking that. There was really no reason for Saint to get towncred on me based on the fact I commented that LynchMePlz was viweing the thread form time to time.

I've done this as town, in Mafia in Mendo. It might not have anything to do with your alignment, but I see no point in analyzing who is browsing the thread as scum. Surely that can be faked, but I liked your tone in response to that. LMP was really shocked at you saying that, and with good reason. I'd have been shocked too!

I don't know. I think that someone acting like that much of an idiot can't be scum, because scum would be more careful. So, I think he's town. Probably naive of me.

I hadn't noticed his defending of OGML
OGML doesn't seem like he is going to be lynched, and I have no idea what I was smoking when I vainly believed I could get Ythill lynched. If anything, he's probably right. All it did was hurt my credibility. I have seen much better players than I say you need to bandwagon d1 in LThemes
Well, this kid is dropping scumtells to me
this helps ogml if nexus is scum, so I want to see him flip

Vote: Nexus

Saint: do you think I'm scum too?

You are my strongest town read. Why?

[Saint]

Farside, my comment about your AGar comment was that you were reiterating
I like your response to my second comment

[Nexus]

The whole crux of this argument is that I'm scummy because I refused to hammer, and have subsequently tried to "derail" the lynch on OGML. I didn't have a vote on OGML. I don't force the others to unvote him. If other people believed so much in the wagon, they would've kept their votes on. They haven't.

Hammering on day 1 of a thread, when there's about two weeks left til the deadline is stupid. Just because Furc/Saint is an idiot and doesn't understand the value of a long day, doesn't make his arguments correct.

I shouldn't have called OGML a town idiot, just an idiot. That's what he is.

Finally, SGR is pretty damn scummy. ISO #55 is pretty damn scummy. "I don't want to talk anymore lalalala". Man, you know that there's more than one scumbag, right? So if OGML flipped scum, we'd still have to find his buddies. Day 1 can be good for trying to root them out. So, anyone advocating ending the day so early is pretty scummy, imo. That's you SGR and you Saint.

Why do you believe that a short day is better than a long day? Obviously people didn't believe in an OGML lynch, because it got derailed quite quickly. Scumhunt more maybe?

Finally:

vote: SGR

[Nexus]

EBWOP: There were 11 days to the deadline when I came back from v/la. There's still 9 days. There's no value in ending the day now. Unless you're scum trying to avoid detection.

[Ythill]

Reread complete. Current read summary in a bit. First, here are a couple of things that jumped out at me:

I’m just judging how far you are going to take your ‘I always wagon Day 1 and do my late Day scum-hunting via VC analysis’ stance. Because in the game we briefly played together (where you were Town) you certainly didn’t do either.

That's a pretty serious accusation, saying I'm both playing off my town meta and lying about it. I ask him to back it up. His response?

AGM’s Mini Normal Classic Mafia. The game where you spent Day 1 as Jesus...

In that game, I was playing under an alt that I'd specifically created to try out a new approach. I can't fathom that someone of MoI's level of intelligence would think that Classic Mafia is a fair comparison of meta, yet he uses it as excuse to both lie about how I play

and

falsely accuse me of lying.

My most recent suspicion on SGR is that he is pushing for a quick end to the Day with the weight of the wagon on OGML. I think an OGML flip would tell us a ton about SGR.

This may be the biggest slip so far. Wrath is suspecting SGR based on the assumption of an OGML townflip while supposedly suspecting OGML. Double scumpoints.

...a good example of how I always tend to think he is scum.

Why are you going off topic to offer preemptive evidence of your honesty?

@Nexus:

That's not actually the crux of why #379 was scummy. You tried to play both sides of the lynch and you asked for permission to hammer.

[Nexus]

No but it's the crux of what Saint's saying.

I was asking permission to hammer because it was 11 days from the deadline, and I wanted to see whether everyone who wasn't voting OGML massively objected to it. Turns out, a lot of people on the OGML wagon weren't in fact that behind it anyway.

We've got more information since I made that post (albeit some of it incorrect reads on me) than we would've had I just been like "lol hi guys, back from vla, ========[]"

We've seen SGR actively refuse to participate in the thread, Saint talk rubbish and a number of other posts that can be analysed.

Next time though, I'll just go with "lolhi ==============[]"

[Ythill]

So first you were asking permission for the hammer and now you are blaming us that you didn't?

Anyway... I have solid reads on 12/17 players, and leans on a few more. We've had a few decent wagons and two of my townreads are clamoring to end the day. I think I'm ready to start working on the lynch.

Ghostlin remains at the top of my suspect list by a decent margin. Ani and Nexus are the runners up. A lynch on any of them would be good. By the numbers, OGML, Apok, and Wrath have been sufficiently scummy that I wouldn't mind seeing them hang. However, that last bit from Wrath means I'd definitely vote him over OGML and so I'm going to stay away from that wagon unless there is some serious to hop back on.

I'm going to keep my vote where it is right now because it seems like this wagon is still building. If people want to start rallying the Ghost wagon, you can count on my vote there to seal the deal.

[Saint]

Nice Ad hominem from Nexus. I'd expect as much from a person with weak play. Also, nice misrepresentation - I didn't like you talking about the hammer, more than not hammering. To clarify, I didn't like the UNVOTES, and you LIKING THE UNVOTES, and TALKING ABOUT IT... Not hammering/wanting to extend the day is scummy; scum are indecisive when they are inexperienced like you are.
Many good players view longer days negatively. Town are brash, and eager to hammer.
That being said, don't blame me for the wagon on you. Lashing out at your most recent voter doesn't help you. I was more suspicious of Ythill for the unvote than you for not hammering, if you go back and LTR.

My voting of you is for the post you made, which I will quote again.

I don't know. I think that someone acting like that much of an idiot can't be scum, because scum would be more careful. So, I think he's town. Probably naive of me.

Your simple hammer would not have been anything to me. Your lack of hammer would not be anything to me, EXCEPT HERE YOU ADMIT "SCUM WANT TO BE CAREFUL"

YOU WERE CAREFUL
YOU ARE SCUM.

[AGar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Nexus

This needs to happen, since the OGML wagon fizzled at the point.

I read a higher level of commitment to the wagon from him as it gained steam, which happened after I gave my (Fate's, in all truthfulness) theory on large game wagonning and consolidation, and he said the theory was essentially bunk.

So your theory so far is that your statment is that he has a higher level of commitment on the wagon......

Huh?

Badly worded.
Your theory is that ghost "had a higher level of commitment" on someone because of your comment.
Then read the rest of what I said after that.

No. I'm saying he showed a higher level of commitment AFTER the comment, but not because of it. The comment didn't influence him in either direction. The support is what I think did.

[Apokalyptika]

Saint: if you don't think MoI is scum, then why would you bring him into the conversation you were having with vezok? Why wouldn't you say "What do you think of Ythill and Farside being scum together?" Also, not hammering is not scummy, since almost nobody was ready to be done with the day. And look, since the day continued, I'm getting lots of information that I wouldn't have otherwise.

[A Gaggle of Geese]

i'm sick. i'll post stuff when better which will hopefully be soon

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well today is Thursday … I wait for OGML’s content with great anticipation

of more scumtastic play.

--

"I feel like MoI's play has been scummy due to replacing in"

Please explain this because I don’t even know what you are saying here.

I am playing scummy because I replaced in? Are you differentiating my play here from games I start?

Am I scummy because I replaced Tasky who you thought was scummy?

OGML doesn't seem like he is going to be lynched,

Why do you think that? OGML is still the leading wagon and I believe the only reason he’s gotten any slack is his announced V/LA til today.

Many good players view longer days negatively. Town are brash, and eager to hammer.

Appeal to Authority much?

--

That's a pretty serious accusation, saying I'm both playing off my town meta and lying about it. I ask him to back it up. His response?

Cropping my response to suit your needs? Scumtastic. Of course it's a serious accusation. I don't make light-hearted ones

Are you disputing the fact that in AGM’s Classic Mafia you did not use V/C analysis at all in the late game stage? Because you specifically went out of your way to avoid addressing that aspect and focused on the “Jesus” comment.

Here is the LINK again for those who want to review for themselves. As Town Ythill makes not one mention of using V/C analysis to determine who is scum.

I do appreciate that you've pretty much acknowledged that your scummy jabs about intelligence and my suspect list were just that -- scummy jabs.

--

This needs to happen, since the OGML wagon fizzled at the point.

It has only fizzled since he’s completely ducked the thread due to Marti Gras.

[farside22]

No. I'm saying he showed a higher level of commitment AFTER the comment, but not because of it. The comment didn't influence him in either direction. The support is what I think did.

does not compute
does not compute

Time back for morph

robot mafia morph town

fire & ice morph scum

town morph: jokes around and votes without much reason. No views on why player is scum and flakes off.
scum morph: makes cases based on weak reasoning.

So in short morph still looks scummy here to me.

[farside22]

@ythill: I was in one game with you and I don't recall you vote hopping as much as this game.

geezer mafia
You had 3 people you were will to vote on day 1. Very different from here. This game you seem a bit more hey lets BW X and see where it goes. I also see from geezer there is no VC analysis coming from you there.

unelect: ythill

[Locke Lamora]

Saint: do you think I'm scum too?

You are my strongest town read. Why?

You said that Ythill and Nexus were scummy for deterring the OGML lynch, but although you were later told that I also unvoted OGML, you haven't treated me in the same way. Seems inconsistent.

[A Gaggle of Geese]

This head has only seen Ythill in jurrasic park which is still ongoing, but Ythill is dead and flipped town, and he did vote hop a lot on D1. I have a mild townread on him...from what I gather, the way to read him is in how successful his VCA and other shenanigans are.

[LimMePls]

So first you were asking permission for the hammer and now you are blaming us that you didn't?

Anyway... I have solid reads on 12/17 players, and leans on a few more. We've had a few decent wagons and two of my townreads are clamoring to end the day. I think I'm ready to start working on the lynch.

Ghostlin remains at the top of my suspect list by a decent margin. Ani and Nexus are the runners up. A lynch on any of them would be good. By the numbers, OGML, Apok, and Wrath have been sufficiently scummy that I wouldn't mind seeing them hang. However, that last bit from Wrath means I'd definitely vote him over OGML and so I'm going to stay away from that wagon unless there is some serious to hop back on.

I'm going to keep my vote where it is right now because it seems like this wagon is still building. If people want to start rallying the Ghost wagon, you can count on my vote there to seal the deal.

What I don't understand about this Ythill is that your vote carries a lot of weight. There are lots of players that view you as town, as evidenced by the election count. If Ghostlin is your number 1 scum read, you should be HELPING US GET THE WAGON GOING, not sitting around waiting to see if we can get it going, and only then coming over. Your vote will be a big drive in getting the Ghostlin wagon fired back up. So quit farting around and vote Ghostlin. You know he's scum, I know he's scum, and he knows he's scum.

[LimMePls]

I've made two large posts catching up to the game with MOUNTAINS of evidence why Ghostlin is scum. If that doesn't get him lynched, then I don't know what the fuck would. Seriously, did you people read that shit at all?

[A Gaggle of Geese]

I've read some of it, but still feel ghostlin is town.

I also think Seacore is highly likely to be town, this is more-so from knowing him in past games and from modding with him I at least like to think I could read him.

[A Gaggle of Geese]

Also why the sigh at us calling MOI scummy?