Cowboy Bebop Remix [Endgame]

[UncertainKitten]

I'm interpreting that differently.

@Vi: Clarify what you meant. I'm not going to feed you the answer.

[GreyICE]

vote nachomamma

he knows why

Vote: Rhinox

Absolute chaos descends around you.

And you post this.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[GreyICE]

Now who else is being a pain in this thread besides our wonderful rhino?

UK is town. Based on Brotherhood. Try and succeed!

UT is null. Dunno.

I'm just going to ignore Kdub unless he comes up with some legitimate points.

I actually feel somewhat more comfortable with my vote now however.

If this post contained more waffles Seraphim could open a diner. Not liking him.

Bounties - Right now I don't think there's any reason to deal with it, but later on it might be worth bringing up

This is what I was referring to. She brings up the concept of bounties, and then immediately says that there's no reason to talk about them now.

Hmmmmmmmm.
Done that one as scum when I know something is bad for the town, but want someone else to take the fall.

Vi:

What do you think about the idea of having the bounty named in Fate's post claim, then deciding who our collective strongest town reads are and having them lynch the bounty to see what falls off that wagon? We have to do this day 1, period, because the scum:town ratio will almost certainly never be lower.

LLD:

*huggles*

'kay, no, seriously, some bounties can be achieved with as little as one lynch. If this mechanic benefits town, then it is likely to benefit the most on day 1. Are scum power roles more damaging than town?

Massclaim for flavor purposes:

Nooooooo. Fate like... hates that shit. If he made a game where we could flavor game it to find scum he'd probably shoot himself in the face with a nailgun.

Toasty:

I have a gut read of my own. You're scum. It's a good gut read. Flavor mechanics, IoA, setup speculation, and more waffles than Jahudo.

Unvote

Vote: Toasted

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Vote: Toast

Fate

, could we have a VC?

[Seraphim]

@GreyICE: how the fuck is that post waffling?

More later.

[Jahudo]

Grey just said three people were waffling, and I don't see evidence of it from anybody. And is that a real suspicion on Rhinox or just random vote lulz? I can't tell.

[Vi]

Nacho - To borrow a phrase from a different anime, WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK I AM?
The mechanic was public knowledge before the game and I'm Prof. Paragon; of

course

I have thoughts on it.

My thought going into the game was that it was a useless distraction. If the bounty winds up on Town, we would have to mislynch to get it. Not likely to be helpful. If the bounty winds up on scum, it's not like they're going to claim their role AND scum.

Then after I got my role I thought that it might not be a bad idea to give it a try. Yes, it would be difficult to prevent at least one scum from being on the wagon, but the Town-side rewards might very well be worth it... and we could certainly grill whoever jumped on the wagon that we didn't want. Luckily we don't have Lowell-types ITT.

For us to actually lynch the bounty without any kind of luck factor, we would need to mass nameclaim. That's why Seraphim fishing for unsafe claims would be best answered when the bounties started to come into play. (The claim of role-related info seems dubious tbh.)

And THAT is the unstuffed version of "right now we can probably sit on it; later on we can bring it up".

There was an element of damage control in sweeping it away, but that more came into play later.

---

Jahudo 51 makes me twitch.

I don't think Toast's line in 66 is a slip.

GreyICE - The first thing we'd need is a bunch of Town reads, so for the time being I'm going to put a "no" on that plan. There's also the issue of whether the bounty is likely to be scum, so etc.

Cat - Was my answer in 46 satisfactory?

Seraphim - What is this "I do feel somewhat more comfortable with my vote" about? I had to look to see that it was on UK.

I'm not following GreyICE's Rhinox vote. This isn't like Objection! Redux.

Unvote: Antitown
Vote: Seraphim

(L-4)

U. Vote Count

Cogito Ergo Sum (0):
Vi (2): Jahudo, Nachomamma
Rhinox (0):
UncertainKitten (1): Seraphim
Jahudo (0):
Lady Lambdadelta (2): Untrod Tripod, Antitown
GreyICE (0):
ToastyToast (3): Ladyλδ, GreyICE, CogitoES (L-4)
Antitown (0):
Kdub (0):
Untrod Tripod (0):
Seraphim (3): Kdub, Toast, Vi (L-4)
Nachomamma (1): Rhinox

Not voting:
Trying to go against the flow of all things: UncertainKitten

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Unvote, vote: Seraphim

[Rhinox]

I have a hunch that the scum consist of the main space cowboy team of spike, faye, jet, and edward. Could be completely wrong but the bad guys definitely outweigh the good guys in the show.

That was the case in the last game, may or may not be true. modwifom.

Agreed. The whole Bounty concept should just be ignored for now because it requires mis-lynches.

REQUIRES

? scumslip?

and ninja'd already and answered, but yeah.

Bounties - Right now I don't think there's any reason to deal with it, but later on it might be worth bringing up

This is what I was referring to. She brings up the concept of bounties, and then immediately says that there's no reason to talk about them now.

This is actually a good point. If the idea was to avoid softclaims as UK suggests, why bring up the bounty topic when no one was talking about them (potentially leading to softclaims) in the first place.

GreyICE

, nacho sk-killed me in my last game BEFORE I EVEN GOT A CHANCE TO POST, and I'm most definitely holding a grudge!

For us to actually lynch the bounty without any kind of luck factor, we would need to mass nameclaim.

Not mass nameclaim, only the listed bounty for the day, right?


I don't care to bounty hunt right now. I'll try to lynch scum, and if I get a bounty, its a bonus. What the bounty system will do is change how wagons work. We want townies on the lynch wagon, and scum off it.

[Rhinox]

E

dited game link into last post -Fate

[GreyICE]

@GreyICE: how the fuck is that post waffling?

You

actually

feel

somewhat

more comfortable with your vote

however

?

Put an extra qualifier or two in there, I'm not sure it has enough conviction behind it.

[Vi]

Bounties - Right now I don't think there's any reason to deal with it, but later on it might be worth bringing up

This is what I was referring to. She brings up the concept of bounties, and then immediately says that there's no reason to talk about them now.

This is actually a good point. If the idea was to avoid softclaims as UK suggests, why bring up the bounty topic when no one was talking about them (potentially leading to softclaims) in the first place.

The idea wasn't so much to avoid softclaims, but to see if anyone else was thinking about the mechanic.
I just got out of a game where someone else had better ideas than me about the game's core mechanic, so etc.

For us to actually lynch the bounty without any kind of luck factor, we would need to mass nameclaim.

Not mass nameclaim, only the listed bounty for the day, right?

That depends on how likely you think it is that the scum will claim to be the bounty target.
Actually, now that you mention it I'm not sure if mass nameclaiming is better than just having the bounty claim (or not).
Even so, we can put that question off until later.

Rhinox, do you have any suspicions at this point?

[Rhinox]

That depends on how likely you think it is that the scum will claim to be the bounty target.

As long as its not LyLo, I'm not worried at all whether scum would or wouldn't claim to be the bounty target.

Rhinox, do you have any suspicions at this point?

No, not really.

[Kdub]

Plus, since the bounties will, for the most part, be townies, lynching one is still a mislynch of sorts.

Agreed. The whole Bounty concept should just be ignored for now because it requires mis-lynches.

Requires wasn't the best word to use. When I say it 'requires' miss-lynches, I mean that it encourages us to look for someone other than scum. Isn't that exactly what scum would want? It diverts attention away from them and will possibly get them a power too.

I don't think this was a slip because you've been consistent in this opinion, but I don't understand how it encourages us to not look for scum. First of all, how do you propose that we would "look" for this random player unless they either claim or there is some sort of action that reveals them? Also, why is does that exclude looking for scum?

@Kdub: I'd know it when I see it. The apology was a sort of redirection of my irritation at *that* being the response to my line of questioning as opposed to something lamer that would be more pursueable.

"I'd know it when I see it" is a bit of a non-answer.

[Jahudo]

@GreyICE: how the fuck is that post waffling?

You

actually

feel

somewhat

more comfortable with your vote

however

?

Put an extra qualifier or two in there, I'm not sure it has enough conviction behind it.

I'm not seeing it. What about your other waffler claims?

[UncertainKitten]

@Kdub: Best you're getting. I don't make tables and graphs of what responses are most likely and what responses make someone scum. I read the game questioning odd things until I get an intent read. That softclaim covered the intent I was looking for. It wasn't an answer I LIKED occurring, but it still would answer the matter of intent nicely.

@Vi: Clarify please. Was the statement Nacho quoted intended to shut down DISCUSSION of the bounties?

Hmm...so, last night I was thinking this but was too tired to really pursue it because I'd also wanna check against her ISO and such...
After sleeping on it, I feel a bit more resolved.

Unvote, Vote LadyLambdadelta

That cute little jump on Toast REEKS of opportunism. Further, there's a disproportionate effort spent defending the colored text. Not sure what to make of the bounty stuff but combined with everything else, I feel there's a chance it's a bit of IIoA to try to look pro town going with the mechanics talk. That would be my weakest thing on her.

Basically, I guess the intent read I'm getting is "I'm a good townie! Really, I am! You don't need to look over here and check, nosiree!"

I'm seeing Vi's Jahudo twitch in ISO.

The Seraphim wagon isn't BAD, but I feel like we're missing something with it. Some key questions should be asked at this point.

Seraphim, why do you feel comfortable about your vote? You haven't actually explained it thus far, and the rest of your contribution has been flavor spec. You're better than this, so what's holding you back?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@Kdub: Best you're getting. I don't make tables and graphs of what responses are most likely and what responses make someone scum. I read the game questioning odd things until I get an intent read. That softclaim covered the intent I was looking for. It wasn't an answer I LIKED occurring, but it still would answer the matter of intent nicely.

@Vi: Clarify please. Was the statement Nacho quoted intended to shut down DISCUSSION of the bounties?

Hmm...so, last night I was thinking this but was too tired to really pursue it because I'd also wanna check against her ISO and such...
After sleeping on it, I feel a bit more resolved.

Unvote, Vote LadyLambdadelta

That cute little jump on Toast REEKS of opportunism. Further, there's a disproportionate effort spent defending the colored text. Not sure what to make of the bounty stuff but combined with everything else, I feel there's a chance it's a bit of IIoA to try to look pro town going with the mechanics talk. That would be my weakest thing on her.

Basically, I guess the intent read I'm getting is "I'm a good townie! Really, I am! You don't need to look over here and check, nosiree!"

I'm seeing Vi's Jahudo twitch in ISO.

The Seraphim wagon isn't BAD, but I feel like we're missing something with it. Some key questions should be asked at this point.

Seraphim, why do you feel comfortable about your vote? You haven't actually explained it thus far, and the rest of your contribution has been flavor spec. You're better than this, so what's holding you back?

So wait, let me see if I'm getting this right.

Me voting Toasty on something I found scummy in his posts... Was opportunistic?

I believe there were no other votes on his wagon at the time UK... I don't see how that is "opportunistic".

[Rhinox]

I'm seeing Vi's Jahudo twitch in ISO.

I'm not seeing it actually. Could you or Vi try to explain it to me?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Rather... I have a problem with CES.

You jump on the Toasty wagon without so much as a WORD as to why.

And then jump off just as easily, when Vi shifts her focus onto Seraphim. With the same amount of explanation.

Unvote; Vote: CES

Explain your reasons behind your votes on Toasty and Seraphim. So help me god if you regurgitate Vi and I.

[UncertainKitten]

@LLD: It was something that you could easily seize upon that looked right on the surface, but with a little more examination CLEARLY wasn't that out of place.

Perhaps we have different frameworks of opportunist, but that read as opportunist to me. You were taking the opportunity to use something that *could* be misinterpreted, without further research or thinking, and pushed it on reasonably flimsy logic.

@Rhinox: Go through Jahudo's ISO. I see where Vi is getting her twitch from 51, because she actually voted someone else for the same reason. That said, I feel the twitch is somewhat supported by Jahudo's further posting which hasn't been amazingly great. There's significant IIoA when most of us have gotten past that point. His latest posts are pushing Gray on the waffling issue but still haven't given any thought to most of the issues that have come up.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Opportunist to me speaks as to, "voting on a leading Wagon, with the opportunity to get it lynched and gain something from it".

Whether that be town points, or a mislynch, it's about them not having a case, or a reason for their vote, beyond "this person is an easy and good lynch for me".

Starting a wagon in someone to put pressure on them, when lynch threshold is 7... I don't consider opportunist.

I do consider CES opportunist though.

Also, I got around to reading Toasty's responce... And it's better than I expected TBH. Not warranting a vote anymore, that's for sure.

CES needs more votes and more pressure...

[Vi]

@Vi: Clarify please. Was the statement Nacho quoted intended to shut down DISCUSSION of the bounties?

Not really. However, there was definitely a consensus that was more or less what I was thinking and nobody was interested in discussing it, so answering my own question was closure in a sense. The topic didn't spark conversation until LLD 39, after I was done with the subject.

I'm not sold on LLD-scum. Probably the worst thing about her is this recent jump+push on CES. While I haven't played with CES before, I'm pretty sure he's deliberately playing to be an easy target. But I'm not sure as scum she would have made post 39.

I see where Vi is getting her twitch from 51, because she actually voted someone else for the same reason.

UK gets it.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@Vi: why would ANYONE try and play against their win-con like that? If he's town, he's providing nothing in the form of content or reads for the town.

I don't get where you're drawing that "he tries to be an easy target" from... But if it is true, I hate it already.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Let me re-state that.

If you're right about that, he needs a bullet in his head tonight from a vigil.

[UncertainKitten]

@LLD: Well, starting the wagon for flimsy reasons that look good on the surface, but have no actual standing, is what bugs me. So how about we call it that, and drop the terminology confusion?

@Vi: The vote on CES made me frown as well since I vaguely remember him being one of *those* players. Fortunately, he's the only one, and it's generally good to have one around. I would guess he's a Jack type? That said, LLD might not KNOW that, and it'll be interesting to see how CES confirms. It's a better vote than the toasty one, I think.

To be honest, I see 39 as a bit of a null tell, but I can see where you'd extract town intent from it. For now we'll have to agree to disagree.

I'll be watching raocow, responding one last time to this thread, and then working for the next 4 or 5 hours. Try not to post TOO much while I'm gone.

@LLD: There are players that start off the game like that and then bring in the big guns as things progress. I think this is perfectly valid and quite honestly pretty good in small doses since it's an unusual attack for the scum to fend off. Combine that with some classical scumhunting, intent based scumhunting, etc., you'll find the scum can't hide from everything, and it wears on them.