268: Bugsy Malone Mafia - Game over. Mod learns lesson

[Alexander]

In my opinion our mod took a completely, irrevocably, 100% wrong path on this one. He designed the game poorly, with no safe claims and outs for the scum, and now we have to pay the price. More specifically, me. The time I wasted doing the research could have been better spent playing Mag-Jongg; the lazy mafia, who didn't care to research even one safe claim, whined their way into a get-out-of-jail-free pass.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with "benefiting the player who had done the most research". In fact, the very reason I joined a flavorful game, was to combine regular mafia strategies with flavor research. My plan was mod-shut, and I consider this the highest stamp of approval possible.

I have already 4 flavorless mafia games in progress across different sites; in those games, my roles are DOC, BACKUP COP, VANILLA TOWN and MASON respectively, really oozes with flavor, huh? I wanted this game to be different, but it's not. Overall, there is no reason for me to stay in the game.

Since proposing such an obviously pro-town plan clearly labels me as town, I am sure my replacement would appreciate doc protection tonight.

I REQUEST TO BE REPLACED

[Fritzler]

[quote="Foolster41"]Fritz: I actually misread your post about the cart accident, and though WHAT? Then reading it again. Ok. you're not /quote]

What cart accident?

And hope you have fun leaving the game alex.

[MeMe]

Alexander --

1) It is the mod's right (and, I think, duty) to do their best to balance a game to make it fun for ALL of the players. I respect vIQles' attempt to do that. I do agree that it's his fault if it wasn't balanced in the first place and that it was ill-advised to a) post the "good in the movie=good in the game" publicly (he should have answered each confused question individually) and b) say that he was changing the rules due to "complaints."

2) To say that the scum "whined their way into a get out of jail free pass" is ridiculous. It's quite possible that, due to that research, they know full well that a mass claim makes it impossible for them to win and pointed that out to vIQles. Good on them, if that's what happened.

3) What would your opinion be of players who chose to quit if vIQles DIDN'T implement some sort of non-game-breaking policy? I daresay it'd be low. You might have believed that flavor games should be easier because of the flavor -- but it's a flaw in the game if they are.

4) Even with the "no mass claiming" rule -- vIQles has basically written us the loophole (the same one suggested by Foolster41): pressure each player in turn. So why are you quitting, anyway?

Full disclosure: as a moderator, I've tweaked a game midstream to make it more playable/fair for the SK, so I'm sympathetic to a moderator who wants to do the same with his game. You're upset that all your hard work might go to waste (though, as pointed out, it won't if we just

pressure

everyone). Well, think how much MORE hard work vIQles did writing the game. His fix attempts are surely a way to stop his hard work from being flushed away in no time.

As for this:

Since proposing such an obviously pro-town plan clearly labels me as town, I am sure my replacement would appreciate doc protection tonight.

...forgive my skepticism. But I can certainly see this little scenario

• you are scum who did research and realized that you and your scum buddies have the only "bad" names in the movie without safe claims
• you complained to him that when it comes to claiming, you guys are screwed
• he said that if mass claim looks like it's going to happen, he'll step in to stop it
• you forced the issue knowing that he was going to save you...but the WAY he did it (admitting it was due to "complaints" and then providing a loophole) still made it rather unwinnable for you
• you quit out of frustration and because it's still rather unlikely you'll win

See? No reason for anyone but scum to quit. So, if you're not scum, you might as well stay in.

[vIQleS]

Last comment: The complaints that I mentioned were not from the scum but from players who could not find info on their characters and certain other clues that I provided them.

As has already been pointed out this rule applies only for today... I am glad that some players have taken the time and effort to do research (and probably watch the movie), and you can use that information as much as you like. Just not a mass claim on day one.

[Foolster41]

Really Alex just stop whining and play.

Playing the game is the fun part of about mafia. It's about the trickery and desception that makes the game so muxh fun. Sure, a plan was wasted. That sucks, but plans are scrapped all the time, and new ones are made.

Uesless replacements just disrupt the game and add down time (The new guy catching up). So please, please stay in the game.

Meme: So acording to this scenerio, if he really does get a replacement, should we suspect his replacement?

fritz: Uh, cart sans the "t" is what I mean.

[Adele]

So please, please stay in the game.

@Alexander: I second that. I've been enjoying your style and I think if you'll just hold out a little while you'll get the benefit of all that research.

@Everyone: If we were to pressure someone to claim, who would we do first? Someone who supported a mass claim or someone against it?

[chaotic_diablo]

I also agree that Alexander shouldn't leave. We still have to mob him of all his prized possessions.

Besides, I've seen mods who tried to leave it as it is. For instance, I once was a mafia godfather, which was a pretty good start. Unfortunately, the mod also gave my name to another player in the game in hopes that the player would not reveal I was the godfather and try to get me lynched. Although it was a good concept, that player decided to do things differently. I ended up getting lynched day one. Following that, the mod stopped the game due to the unbalancing. To me, it wasn't really fun when I was playing that time. I don't exactly remember who the mod was, but I think it was someone in this game... can't remember though.
vIQleS way of balancing the game is by prohibiting name claiming day one. He never said anything for day two. Just stay and have fun.

[chaotic_diablo]

Sorry for the double posting, but I checked and I can say that the mod

is

in this game.

[Tamuz]

OK back and completely caught up
Does anyone else think we should get to tommorow as quickly as possble and abuse the "

Day One

" Lawyer style?
That being said, my vote may be quick to jump to No Lynch if we think getting to tommorow and mass claiming will be the most beneficial.

However, I'm going to

vote: N_lich

for now because I believe he is the most scummy from his few posts and his extreme lurkerness (excuse my hypocracy)

[MeMe]

I rather like the idea of no-lynching quickly today. Pressuring everyone individually sounds like rather a time-consuming hassle when the restriction will be gone tomorrow.

unvote: Adele
vote: no lynch

[Adele]

...okay. Maybe it's just that Alexander's post style suits me well, but he's not a player I want to lose from this game, so if this makes him more likely to stay in...

Vote: NoLynch

[Pariah]

I am usually not a fan of no lynch, but it seems apparently the game can be broken by a mass claim in this situation. The possible negatives are far out weighed by the possible positives. So, let's go for it.

Vote: No Lynch

.

Also, Alex, please don't get replaced. It messes up the game by having a new poster who has to go over everything again.

[chaotic_diablo]

vote no lynch

due to the above posts.

[Fritzler]

unvote vote: no lynch

[N_lich]

alright then

unvote,vote no lynch

[Tamuz]

As promised

unvote: N_lich vote: No lynch

[Adele]

I need a replacement for Alexander in Bugsy Malone...

we lost him

[Talitha]

I don't understand why we can't just play mafia.

No no-lynch vote from me. Not on Day 1. Not ever on Day 1.

[Adele]

That's

seven votes

for no lynch, isn't it? So we're into

twilight

[Talitha]

Oh wonderful.

[Fritzler]

I don't understand why we can't just play mafia.

No no-lynch vote from me. Not on Day 1. Not ever on Day 1.

What about in dethy?

[Adele]

See? No reason for anyone but scum to quit. So, if you're not scum, you might as well stay in.

You demonstrated why scum might want to quit, not why townies wouldn't.

[vIQleS]

The town retires to their beds shaking their heads in confusion and their fists skywards in anger. Random dangerous-looking lighting bolts hit trees and abandoned buildings in a strangely vengeful manner...

No one has been splurged...

It is now night, with all that that entails.

[vIQleS]

Hearing gunfire and thumping noises down a dark alley, you all rush to investigate... A spralled body, custard stains and an unfortunately ineffective baseball bat...

Talitha - Blousy Brown - has been splurged.

Day two begins - Use it wisely...

[broomhead]

well the first thing that pops into my head is, what role did she play, is s/he good or bad, and what could s/he do at night?