Reckamonic's WoW Mafia (Over)

[Krazy]

Wait why is substrike scum again?

[Toogeloo]

Probably because he is an easy target for not posting yet.

[Toogeloo]

EBWOP: meant to say not confirming yet

[Arthas]

Probably because he is an easy target for not posting yet.

HE HAS TOO

[vezokpiraka]

Fate is awesome alright.

We caught two scum on day 1.

Le's lynch one and get to day two.

[Starbuck]

Had a long day at work, I'll break up my catch up posts so they aren't just one big wall.

Krazy

The thing about LLD is that he did successfully catch that my asking about "cult" early on was sort of strange (I was sort of fishing at the time since my role was recruitment-immune). But that might mean LLD is cult himself...

I think this may be a possibility and that we should keep it in mind.

Toogeloo

I claimed to be an expert on Enhancement and Resto, not Elemental, and I am not a WoWhead that theorycrafts, I just know my own classes and how to play them.

This sentence contradicts itself.

Knowing your class means at least having a working knowledge of all aspects of it.

Obviously anyone on my train is suspected slightly, vezok, AGar, and Starbuck all seem like they are trying to incriminate me without evidence and more circumstance. Starbuck attacked me for not theorycrafting or knowing that Elemental Shaman use Lightning Shield as much as Enhancement Shaman do for example. What does this have to do with her thinking I am scum? It's more of a tunnel on a tunnel excuse in my opinion since she originally didn't like me for tunneling iPie, and then used the role pm quote as an excuse to drop a vote on me while bashing my lack of knowledge on Elemental Shaman.

See my reply directly above this quote about knowledge of classes.

It's not just that which bothers me about you. You kept a push on iPie even after he came clean about his gambit. I mention it here and your repeated tunneling on that even after multiple people told you that he came clean is suspect. I do FOS you for it in the same linked post.

The missing Reckamonic quote is just an added bonus.

So stop trying to make it out to be just about your lack of knowledge because it's not.

The Fonz

I find it suspicious that Starbuck says that she thinks pickclaim is bad because it leads to role discussion (I disagree, but that's beside the point- we don't need to do that to spur discussion) then blatantly rolefishes Katsuki (chose Elf, huh)?
On the twilight's hammer point, starbuck, I don't suspect them because I don't know who they are. Like I said, my flavour knowledge is basically limited to the games themselves rather than WoW, but undead make sense as cult flavor in general).

First off, you didn't state your original statement like that you said the following to which I had the following reply...

I would like us to discuss the benefits and drawbacks of everyone claiming the two upick choices they made that didn't end up as their actual role.

I'm not quite sure why you would like this discussion as it will lead to role speculation.

You don't seem to see the downside of this. Why would we want to give scum more information?

Second, how was a blatantly rolefishing? It was a joke. Here let me show you...

I'M GONNA BE A COMPLETE TREE-HUGGER THIS GAME

Picked Night Elf, huh? =P

Night Elves are well known to be nature lovers (i.e. tree huggers), hence my reply to Katsuki.

So far your suspicions of me are very, very weak.

Next, You don't suspect Twilight's Hammer because you don't know who they are. That's a GREAT reason. Here why don't you educate yourself....Twilight's Hammer Page on WoW Wiki.

Lack of knowledge and/or lack of even trying to learn is no excuse.

I understand how undead/DK make sense, now how about you get caught up on the latest events of WoW before you discredit my working knowledge of the CURRENT LORE of the game.

Sathoris

For one every has playable race/class role.

How do you know this, Sathoris?

Bunnylover

Scum don't have fake claims filled out for them. Look at your role pm, and pretend its empty. Scum then have to fill out all of that. That how it was done in OoT.

First, this is not OoT.
Second, this is not OoT.

[Starbuck]

Substrike22

Honestly, Toog was scummy before for pushing the iPie thing which I thought was a vote of opportunity in and of itself, and then the "slip" on the role pm is just kind of icing on the cake. The two in combination are enough for Day 1 and more, cumulatively, than anyone else has on them at this point.

My thoughts exactly.

Sathoris

Like we all know Reck/dram put fake role PMs for scum but they don't give abilities to them.

Here he 'admits' scum dont know the abilities. So why did he want to mass claim class abilities earlier and say scum know more than us?

He isn't the only one. Bunnylover said the same thing. How would they know? Just because things went one way in OoT doesn't mean they'll go the same during this game.

The Fonz was pushing for the massclaim uPick at the very beginning as well.

And I found a scum.
Look at toog's claim. It misses the Reckamonic quote. Because he is scum. In Oot I was scum and my fake role PM was under my real PM. Toog deleted the his real PM and with it the Reckamonic quote. That's the only explanation.

Bit of a stretch and calling it the only explanation is ridiculous. If I were to claim I would remove reck's quote tags too to make it look cleaner.

I think it's also the only reason that he calls Toog scum. I may have to re-read him, but as far as I remember he made no mention of any other scummy behavior of Toog.

vezok

Also we shouldn't worry about flavor.

Since both Reck and dram are active WoW players, we should definitely worry about flavor.

Arthas

More votes here please.

Certainly.

Unvote

Vote: LLD

Totally laughed at this.

Lady Lambdadelta

I asked you to vote VEZOK you FOOL.

JESUS CHRIST.

Take a joke and quit saying the Lord's name in vain. It offends people!

Toogeloo

I'm happy with this vote. I've made the point previous, others have noticed it as well. Didn't need the OMGUS issues earlier, but it's apparent enough that vezok is definitely scummy through the vote hops and calling people scum and unvoting them anyways. I think I can brave the storm.

vezok being vezok is null.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I hate that defense. "Vezok being Vezok". No. He's scum. I don't care for whatever meta you associate with him, his actions read as indecisive and cautious scum.

[The Fonz]

Secondly, onto the most pressing matter at the time of this post:
Vezok's catch of Toog's error is actually a big deal, and not something that we should just ignore. I had a similar role pm in OOT mafia, along with Bunny and Vezok, where my primary role was in a block above my "fake claim" role. I didn't have to fill in the blanks, for reasons I won't go into

((which, by the way, Bunny or Vezok, look at Chrono's claim on the previous page or two (it's in the block of claims) and tell me if where it says "abilities go here", did your role pm's look like that? if so, chrono could be scum too.))

, but in order to quote just the secondary role pm, I just copied and pasted it and almost made the same error. I previewed it and it was the only reason I caught my mistake. Someone in a hurry could've easily screwed that up. So for me,

VOTE: Toog

No, really, it isn't. Copy and paste your role pm, write the tags on manually. Voila.

Also Toog was pushing really hard for iPie's lynching over the whole "gambit" deal. I'm not sure how smart a gambit like that on day one is, but it's a null tell at best. Most people that do something that stupidly-attention-grabbing on day one are not the leaders of a cult trying to get their numbers off the ground. He was reaction hunting, more than anything, and he also got discussion sparked. I'm reading him as town, honestly. Which inherently makes you a bit scummier, plus the slip up. Comfortable with that vote for now.

You're assuming cult are the only scum, which is not an assumption town can make at this stage. Also, the fact that you think it is a null tell at best doesn't mean people are scum for thinking it isn't. I can see obvious scum motivation: the town motive is far more opaque. The SWDT argument doesn't really work since not only is there not anything close to a majority of the town, and in fact there's at least as many people willing to go after anyone who ever suggests a policy lynch (ironically, a policy lynch of policy lynchers) as there are people who actually support policy lynching (as the number one advocate of policy lynching on this site, I should know).

See Jack in Consulmaker. Lots of people made the 'scum wouldn't do that' argument there, as well. (That said, the level of arrogance in IPie's posts does make me think he genuinely believes he was doing the right thing).

This vote on Agar is weird. What's the reasoning behind it? If it is simply that he joined a wagon with no reason, then you will need to lynch half the people in this game. Anything else scummy about Agar?

Also, thanks for signing your posts Chess.

If you never voted someone for doing something scummy because someone else was doing it, you'd never vote anyone, least of all scum. Also, that's pretty clearly not Bunny's point (it's a pretty good argument, imho).

Honestly, Toog was scummy before for pushing the iPie thing which I thought was a vote of opportunity in and of itself, and then the "slip" on the role pm is just kind of icing on the cake. The two in combination are enough for Day 1 and more, cumulatively, than anyone else has on them at this point.

This just feels opportunistic as fuck.

About Vezok:

I think we should claim classes and their bonuses. Scum probably know more than us.

Fishing for class bonusses. Scum probably doesn't know more as they have to fill in their role PM's themselves and as such knowing all the class bonusses makes that a lot easier for them.

Uh, no. Asking people to claim a certain piece of information is not fishing. Fishing is where you try to trick or finesse someone into unwittingly making a statement that outs role information. Outright asking people to do so is not fishing. It's not a great idea, but I don't tend to find proponents of such things to be scummy. Usually, they're town trying to find a way to help the town who haven't thought it through.

And again..

You see, why does Vezok sticking to his guns make him scummier? Your argument is basically 'He said something I didn't like, and he didn't immediately back down when people questioned him over it."

IPie voting Toog for LALvoting him stinks. Hey guys, supporting LAL is good play, but more importantly, players who support LAL always do it as town. Voting someone for that is scummy.

Look at my wiki. The game is Handsometown, I think. I was scum and pushed someone that fakeclaimed BP as doc (I think) under the pretense of LAL. So no, not always.

And you're normally a policy lynch opponent? This would be the first time I have ever seen that happen. Usually, when someone who's normally anti-PL has the opportunity to support one, it would be so fucking obviously scummy that they wouldn't do it.

Seriously IP, were you actually not aware that people who think they're dead often claim? ("Nice going dumbass, you just killed the doc' etc).

The fact that LLD is quite content to push any VI wagon she can get traction on is nott awesome enough for you?

What happened to her Chrono suspicions and his "terribad just iso him" play?

This is obvious, ill look awesome after the flip obviously.

Pretty good point.

Vote LLD

since there doesn't seem to be much prospect of an IPie lynch, and this is much better than a toog lynch, since toog is very townish.

Wait why is substrike scum again?

Because 'OMG HE SUPPORTS POLICY LYNCHING, HE MUST BE SCUM!' is a terrible argument and looks opportunistic.

Second, how was a blatantly rolefishing? It was a joke. Here let me show you...

I'M GONNA BE A COMPLETE TREE-HUGGER THIS GAME

Picked Night Elf, huh? =P

Night Elves are well known to be nature lovers (i.e. tree huggers), hence my reply to Katsuki.

Yeah, it's totally impossible that he might reply to this in such a way that suggests whether he's an Elf or not. Then you've got the convenient 'it was a joke' excuse.

Lack of knowledge and/or lack of even trying to learn is no excuse.

Bugger me, you're condescending. I've read the wikipedia page on the setting. How much research do you think it's possible to do, short of actually playing the game?

I understand how undead/DK make sense, now how about you get caught up on the latest events of WoW before you discredit my working knowledge of the CURRENT LORE of the game.

How about you don't try to say things that are utterly untrue? Where have I once even discussed your knowledge of the game? You asked me why I thought X and not Y, and I explained. Accusing me of trying to 'discredit' anyone is just utter bullshit, and you know it.

[Toogeloo]

Toogeloo

I claimed to be an expert on Enhancement and Resto, not Elemental, and I am not a WoWhead that theorycrafts, I just know my own classes and how to play them.

This sentence contradicts itself.

Knowing your class means at least having a working knowledge of all aspects of it.

So you make the assumption that because Shaman was my main when I played, that I should know how Elemental works? What was that you said about assuming again? I consider Enhancement Shaman, Resto Shaman, and Elemental Shaman all different classes. That's kind of the beauty of WoW, ya'know.

Are you one of those WoW elitists that says if a Paladin doesn't know how to tank even if he's a damn good ret and healer, he is a fail paladin?

[Starbuck]

Yeah, it's totally impossible that he might reply to this in such a way that suggests whether he's an Elf or not. Then you've got the convenient 'it was a joke' excuse.

Kats is a she and I didn't expect an answer because it was a JOKE. But keep pushing this to say I was rolefishing because any normal WoW player would get it.

Bugger me, you're condescending. I've read the wikipedia page on the setting. How much research do you think it's possible to do, short of actually playing the game?

You said you didn't know, hence the education and link.

How about you don't try to say things that are utterly untrue? Where have I once even discussed your knowledge of the game? You asked me why I thought X and not Y, and I explained. Accusing me of trying to 'discredit' anyone is just utter bullshit, and you know it.

It seems as though you think your undead/dk theory is the end all be all. So why disregard me when I provide another possible threat (and known cult in the game)? It's still a possibility.

I'm not crossing the DK theory off my list, but the Twilight's Hammer theory shouldn't just be thrown to the wind (as Twilight's Hammer is the current force Azeroth is fighting against).

[Starbuck]

Toogeloo

I claimed to be an expert on Enhancement and Resto, not Elemental, and I am not a WoWhead that theorycrafts, I just know my own classes and how to play them.

This sentence contradicts itself.

Knowing your class means at least having a working knowledge of all aspects of it.

So you make the assumption that because Shaman was my main when I played, that I should know how Elemental works? What was that you said about assuming again? I consider Enhancement Shaman, Resto Shaman, and Elemental Shaman all different classes. That's kind of the beauty of WoW, ya'know.

Are you one of those WoW elitists that says if a Paladin doesn't know how to tank even if he's a damn good ret and healer, he is a fail paladin?

No assumptions, you *SHOULD* have basic knowledge, just because you don't play the spec doesn't mean that you shouldn't know what it does.

Just because a Paladin doesn't know how to tank doesn't make him fail. He should know what each aspect of his class does though and what they bring to the group (buffs, etc).

Did you ever raid? If you weren't a raider, I can understand your lack of knowledge.

[Toogeloo]

I did raid, I'm fairly certain I mentioned that. I was constantly Top 3 dps as Enhancement Spec, and I was the only Resto Shaman in our guild (and there were only 2 shaman in the guild period). I was never asked about my knowledge of the third spec I never used though. I don't think I respeced more than once in the two years I played the Shaman either. You do realize some people just don't give a shit about more than their primary spec, and they can still be quite knowledgable in that one spec, right?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

The fact that LLD is quite content to push any VI wagon she can get traction on is nott awesome enough for you?

What happened to her Chrono suspicions and his "terribad just iso him" play?

This is obvious, ill look awesome after the flip obviously.

Pretty good point.

Vote LLD

since there doesn't seem to be much prospect of an IPie lynch, and this is much better than a toog lynch, since toog is very townish.

Wait why is substrike scum again?

Because 'OMG HE SUPPORTS POLICY LYNCHING, HE MUST BE SCUM!' is a terrible argument and looks opportunistic.

Here is two arguments you just proposed.

In one, you agree with Fate's point that "LLD is only lynching VI's, thus scum."

In the other, you condemn Substrike for saying "These people are policy lynching, therefor scum."

Contradictions, ho~!

[Lady Lambdadelta]

If you want me to be more precise here is the long and short of it:

Either you agree with Substrike's analysis, or you consider Fate to be scum.

Your arguments tell us this much.

You can't have it both ways.

[Tragedy]

EBWOP: meant to say not confirming yet

And then you're trying to re-direct a lynch towards a non-confirmed silly noob who will be replaced.
Good job.

[Krazy]

Been reading a couple isos since I haven't really been thrilled with my vote on LLD, and the Agar/Bunnylover cross is getting more interesting to me than the Toog/Vezok cross. I'm getting good vibes from Starbuck, but maybe that's just because I like BSG.

Alright, everyone we are lynching Reckamonic today and will test if they need to be lynch tomorrow.

Pretty much your first post in the game, and you're saying if we don't lynch Reck, we will try to lynch him again tomorrow. I think you've already been poked about this but it still bothers me. At the time, this could have easily produced a failwagon that would end day1 pointlessly.

I disagree with this. Scum are more then likely not a class that players can pick (according to other people like the Lich King could be scum), which mean they don't know any kind of bonus town would have unless its in their fake claim.

I just have no idea why you would assume Scum are more likely to be a class players can't pick. I think someone might have already poked you about this too.

A fake day kill on a person who is a PGO just seems so unlikely that it was setup.
I can't remember if we had day chat during OoT =/.
This is why you lynch all liars, because lieing causes WIFOM =/.

Wait. You remember the nature of your fake PM in OoT, but you can't remember if you had day chat?

I'm more then sure

their

have to be another one who can settle this before Vezo gets on.

Please, just once, use "there" instead of "their". Sorry I had to say it.

I'll unvote him to prevent a quick lynch.

Unvote

I'm not sure there really was a threat of a quick lynch at this point, and... what? If you believe he's scum, then why hold off on the lynch? If you aren't sure if he's scum or not, wouldn't you want to keep the pressure on?

And what Vezo is saying about the catch is that it doesn't have the "Reck thing like every other claim. This means you just joined a wagon you have no idea why it has started.

Your vote on Agar is that you claim he didn't understand Vezok's claim, and I have read both your critique and his vote like five times now and I just don't understand where you came up with that.

Its pretty much opportunistic scum bandwagoning.
Most of the people joining the Toog wagon is doing so because of what Vezo has posted.
I think Agar had said he agree with that, but then goes off on something that Vezo wasn't even talking about which was the "catch".
That means Agar is just joining the bandwagoning just to get someone lynched.
Basically:
Here's the reason Toog is been voted.
Agar explains his vote which has nothing to do with why Toog is been voted.
Agar just joined a wagon he has no understanding of which makes me view him as scum.

I have to agree that Agar was pretty much just flat bandwagoning, which CAN be scum, but can also just be... well, band-wagoning.

I'm not sure Agar's post was really commenting on the catch as an explanation for his vote; I think the entire explanation of his vote was "nice catch Vezo" or whatever he said.

I also don't like the way Agar basically tunnels on Vezo and then after his one catch flips around and joins with him, but right now I'm not liking the trend in your posts toward ultra-sensitive positioning Bunny. I'll give you a chance but right now my vote is gravitating toward you.

[Reckamonic]

Plushie: "I'm 85 at last!"
Big Daddy: "Congratulations babe!"
Plushie: "And now to bitch at the players..."
Big Daddy: "...what?"

The Fonz (1): mothrax
Krazy (1): Chronopie
Arthas (2): DemonHybrid, AKR
Chronopie (1): Gollum
InflatablePie (1): Baby Spice
LLD (5): Fate, Katsuki, Krazy, Arthas, The Fonz
Toogleloo (6): AGar, Starbuck, Tragedy, drmyshottyizsik, Substrike22, VezokPiraka
Baby Spice (1): Benmage
vezokpiraka (4): InflatablePie, Sathoris, LLD, Toogeloo
AGar (1): bunnylover

Not voting: mockingjaye

With 24 alive, it takes 13 to lynch!

Look you guys. I like yall, really I do, but in case you hadn't noticed, this game has WoW for a theme, a game in which toons are basically healers. Yes, there are some parts of the flavour that sound weird or don't seem to fit so well. We did the best we could, so the next one of you I read bitchin about his flavour not fitting his role is getting yelled at. Trust me, if we all wanted to make you people vigs it'd have been easy to find a fitting ability for each -_-[/b]

[Bunnylover]

@Krazy: I meant we would lynch Reck, then lynch them again (in case they had like a reviver ability) as in OoT they were anti-town and I believe had two different roles (therefore had to be lynched twice. As we all found out, Reck isn't in the game (for now <_<).
Well since alliance and horde aren't enemies or at least we've seen both sides claiming to be town I would assume that that would mean players who are scum got something we couldn't have gotten. Or we are trying to find scum in the alliance side and scum in the horde side. Both are possible.
I didn't use the QT that much, but I was constantly thinking of a fake role and therefore kept looking at my pm as it had a safe claim. I wanna say we didn't have daychat, but I'm still not sure =/.
I fail at grammar ._.
A quicklynch prevents information from been gather by the town. It also allows scum to bus without taken much notice (imo).
Ultra sensitive? Can you explain what that means to me? Its true that townie's do bandwagon at times. But I believe that Agar was trying to give himself an excuse to vote Toog without looking like he was bandwagoning.

[InflatablePie]

Seriously IP, were you actually not aware that people who think they're dead often claim? ("Nice going dumbass, you just killed the doc' etc).

I don't care how often "dead" people claim or not, the point is that it wasn't my intention. Just happened to be a side-effect.

[Arthas]

@Bunny: Yes, you had daychat. ALL QTs in reck/dram games are ALWAYS open. Whether it be a masonry, scumteam, or neighborhood.

[Krazy]

@Krazy: I meant we would lynch Reck, then lynch them again (in case they had like a reviver ability) as in OoT they were anti-town and I believe had two different roles (therefore had to be lynched twice. As we all found out, Reck isn't in the game (for now <_<).

I can understand you would be skeptical of Reck based on your experience in OoT, but if the first lynch this game had gone nowhere... would you really expect a second lynch to go somewhere? I mean really?

A quicklynch prevents information from been gather by the town. It also allows scum to bus without taken much notice (imo).
Ultra sensitive? Can you explain what that means to me? Its true that townie's do bandwagon at times. But I believe that Agar was trying to give himself an excuse to vote Toog without looking like he was bandwagoning.

I know that a quicklynch would be problematic, but was a "quicklynch" really probable at that point? Moving off a wagon just to avoid a quicklynch when a quicklynch seems improbable makes it seem more like you want to appear cautious and pro-town when really you're just positioning yourself (this is what I meant by ultrasenstive).

[Fate]

I'm gonna replace out if you guys keep up this WoW talk.

I'VE BEEN OFF THAT DRUG FOR THREE YEARS THIS MONTH DAMN IT.

STOPITSTOPSTOPITIM HERE TO PLAY MAFIAAAA

[Krazy]

So play?

Mod already asked them to stop too yo, iirc.

[InflatablePie]

I'm gonna replace out if you guys keep up this WoW talk.

I'VE BEEN OFF THAT DRUG FOR THREE YEARS THIS MONTH DAMN IT.

STOPITSTOPSTOPITIM HERE TO PLAY MAFIAAAA

...

So you joined

World of Warcraft

Mafia and didn't expect WoW talk?

Someone's still addicted... deep down inside.

Come back, Fate. Azeroth misses you.

PEdit: They didn't say to stop WoW talk, just stop with flavor speculation. Which I think is a perfectly valid form of scumhunting, but since it's at request of the mods...