268: Bugsy Malone Mafia - Game over. Mod learns lesson

[Fritzler]

Since the game deathwatch.

Hey, if you're gonna say in your sig that you're a chick, why not use your profile to indicate you don't have a penis? You know, since some people don't activate sigs, but everyone has the gender buttons on.

[Adele]

Because I can change my sig if I want to. Once I set my gender button, I can't ever go back to ambiguity, although (interestingly) it

would

let me switch teams...

[Fritzler]

Oh, that is true. Or you could just create a new account like your hermano to exercise your gender ambiguity.

[Adele]

Since the game deathwatch.

Does this refer to a stage of our current game that we've now reached? Does it refer to a past game called "deathwatch"?

As I go into my exam period, I'm secure in the knowledge that some aspect of, like

half

recent posts in my games have been beyond my comprehension...

[chaotic_diablo]

*seriously* Firstly, enhance your reading comprehention skills. I talked about nameclaim, not roleclaim.

Our reading is fine. However, wouldn't it be apparent who the cop or doc would be? If a character was a cop in the movie, he/she might as well be a cop in the game as well. It would make the scum's job alot easier. All they have to do is pick off the major power roles one by one.

A doc doesn't need to have medical experience to be a doc. For all we know, the doc could just fire a gun/pie at the attacker and scare him/her away, thereby saving the victim.

I've never seen the movie.

[Adele]

I'm relatively new and don't know: is a name-claim situation likely to lead to a role-claim situation?

Just so you all know, I'm still waiting on an answer...

[Alexander]

c_d,

First, the *enhance* comment was not to you, but the broomhead, who mixed up name/role claim.

Second, as I said in the initial post discussing nameclaim, there is no character in the movie who is an obvious doc.

- Blousey could be the doc (female compassion and all... could be reaching)
- One of Sam's bodyguards could be the doc (protection)
- Or someone else

Just by knowing a char's name, we most likely won't know if he's has doc powers. This is not like the Simpsons' Mafia, where someone says "I'm Dr. Hibbert" and it immediately becomes obvious he's the doc. In this movie, there are no medical professionals. I can think of at least 3 names that could CONCIEVABLY be the doc, but I cannot think of one that would OBVIOUSLY be the doc.

As for the cop, alas, there were cops in the movie, and it will most likely be apparent who the cop is. However, with the doc HIDDEN having the cop REVEALED is actually not that much of a problem, isn't it? Sort of a blessing in disguise, no? The doc will watch the cop, the mafia kill random townies scrambling to get the doc.

[Alexander]

I'm relatively new and don't know: is a name-claim situation likely to lead to a role-claim situation?

Just so you all know, I'm still waiting on an answer...

It could, if your role is flavorfully connected to your name. For example, if you are, by name, one of the Cops from the movie, you are obviously a Cop in the game as well.

If your name is relatively flavor-free, like "Knuckles, Sam's right hand man", you could be more or less anything (you'd be town though - Sam's gang are good)

[Adele]

Okay, then I'm cool either way with the name-claim. I guess, slightly in favour. Yes. VOTE: MASS NAME-CLAIM.

[Fritzler]

Since the game deathwatch.

Does this refer to a stage of our current game that we've now reached? Does it refer to a past game called "deathwatch"?

Only the greatest game ever, Deathwatch

[vIQleS]

I've decide after some requests and complaints, the large number of questions about roles, and having checked and realised that there is very little information on the internet regarding the roles in Bugsy Malone, to prevent any sort of mass roleclaim on day one.

The game is very delicately balanced (at least I think it is, you all can let me know at the end). and I think a mass claim at this stage would swing the balance too far.

[Alexander]

So what is the mod saying, essentially? That he doesn't want us to mass-claim because it might break the game? 'cause that's how I am reading the above post, LMK if I misunderstand.

[Adele]

Yeah, it sounds to me like, "it'd be really really good for the town to mass name-claim... please don't"

[MeMe]

I'd normally be against a mass role claim this early as scum usually start with more information than town and mass claim of any kind just gives them a bigger advantage.

But hey. This game is a special case. vIQles

has

made it clear that we shouldn't buy any "I've got a bad name but I'm really GOOD" gambits -- so what the heck. At best, we expose the flaws in a broken game and win it in record time. At worst, all of the names will sound innocent and we'll have to depend on our powers of deduction to figure out who to vote. Exactly like we're doing now.

So, I'm in favor of the name claim.

[MeMe]

Um. Moot post, anyone?

[Adele]

lol.

Unvote: MeMe

I don't think a mass name-claim would benefit scum and she could've avoided coming down on either side of the fence since we're still in the "debate" phase. Just so everyone knows, I still IGMEOY MeMe.

[Alexander]

Oh my God! MeMe, Adele and myself all agree! The Messiah is upon us!

Balance or no balance, I want to win. I spent a lot of time analyzing the movie, the characters, the safe claims, and I must say I do not appreciate anyone telling me "you cannot use the results of your hard work because you can't"

VOTE MASS NAMECLAIM

[Alexander]

Oh, Adele has a point,

UNVOTE MeMe

for the time being.

[Adele]

Are we allowed to defy the Mod?

If so, w00t, and I'm all for it! Claims seem fair game to me.

[Foolster41]

I'd hold off for now. We don't want anyone sizzled by mod lightning bolts.
---
Are you saying a mass claim isn't allowed (for clearification)?

also, what would constittude a mass claim? That seems a tad undefinable. Couldn't we just descide to bandwagon everyone one at a time to get a claim? It'd be the same result, but not really mass claiming...

I don't mean any offence. I know how frustrating it can be to design a game, and then something you coulnd't have possibly forseen ruins the entire game's balance. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.
----
As to if we should to it or not, I think I'd rather not and just play it out normaly (as I said before, it just doesn't seem fair, and seems a tad risky) There's no reason why we can't win without a mass claim.

Fritz: I actually misread your post about the cart accident, and though WHAT? Then reading it again. Ok. you're not

Alex: Fat Sam being good makes sense.

If we don't go by mass-claim the only one who looks remotly bad to me is Pariah, and even then my suspicion of him is pretty thin.

[vIQleS]

As the Mod I have to be neutral. As much as I might be rooting for a town win, or hoping that my friends do well, I have to design the game so that both sides have an equal chance of winning, otherwise what's the point?

For the lynching to be decided based on a mass roleclaim makes it harder for the scum to win, precisely because certain information isn't as readily available as I assumed it would be.

Having said that - I really don't feel comfortable right now, interfering with the game play, so from now on I will keep my big nose out of it and let y'all carry on. (Provided that the rules remain inviolate).

However I have made a pronouncement and that must stand, so as far as day one goes - No Mass Claiming.

[Alexander]

This is my first flavorful game of mafia (I completed several flavoreless games before) and I must say that a pronouncement that we CANNOT USE THE FLAVOR absolutely stuns me. I did a lot of flavor-based work, something the scum obviously didn't do (they found it much easier to just run to you with complaints), and now all my work was nullified.

My first instinct is to just say the hell with it and withdraw from this game... but I don't want to post anything commital before I have a chance to sleep on it. Good night for now.

[Adele]

Don't pull out, Alexander - vIQleS just said no

mass

claimings, day

one

Query - if it is mass claims that are banned, how is that to be defined? I'm not looking to undermine your decision, mod, but if people are pushed to claim, may they? What if this happens several times? May one or two people choose to spontaneously and individually claim? Thanks.

[vIQleS]

I think for the purposes of definition a claim should be based on pressure of some sort: A bandwagon or a strong vocalisation of suspiscion.

Just choosing to have everyone claim on day one makes the game a matter of who has managed to do the best research or has seen the movie the most.
I did promise that you could play this game without knowing the movie, so to be fair to them, and also to see that players on both sides get to use their character abilities and their deductive abilities before the game finishes this rule applies for the rest of the day.

[Talitha]

At the risk of looking scummy, I think we should respect the mod's wishes and just play the game as we would naturally.

Tomorrow might be a different story though ...