Mafia 125: Khan's Game of Mafia (Game Over)

[Kublai Khan]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 9

"Time is the coin of your life. It is the only coin you have, and only you can determine how it will be spent. Be careful lest you let other people spend it for you."

- Carl Sandburg

Chevre

- 5 - iamausername, yabbaguy, inHimshallibe, DrippingGoofball, nocase

Dutch one

- 3 - PokerFace, Chevre, SpyreX

PokerFace

- 2 - Dutch one, Weatherman

SpyreX

- 2 - Korlash, Kmd4390

Antihero

- 1 - Cyberbob

inHimshallibe

- 1 - RedCoyote

Cyberbob

- 1 - curiouskarmadog

Players not voting:

Xtoxm, Antihero

Notes/Prods

:
- Prodding: Chevre & Dutch One
- Current Deadline: Monday, March 7th, 2011 @ 11:00pm EST

[DrippingGoofball]

We're lynching Chevre. What's so complicated?

[DrippingGoofball]

And we're doing it quickly, deadline coming up etc.

[Kmd4390]

unvote, vote chevre

[Chevre]

I was going to summarize everyone, but when I got to Dutch one, I realized how INCREDIBLY scummy he is. I feel it's better to focus on him, rather than ISO everyone again.

Point I: Dutch one is entirely too sure that I am town

Exhibit A:

Chevre for an example, has been accused a lot. But if you think about it, he has never had many support. He had to defend himself in his own everytime, and he still has a lot of votes against him. I think that if we lynch him, he will just be a townie, because it's just always the same. Someone like Chevre is always lynched in the biginning, and it is almost always town. In the beginning, we are just lynching the person who says something wrong, or who has a lot of enemies (in the game).

Exhibit B:

Chevre (so many people are attacking her, and if you look back to earlier in the game, then you see that even more people have been voting for her. Se doesn't have many allies/support so I don't think she is scum. She e is just an example of the "standert" townie that is most often lynched in the first day. And about her "text-walls", yes that is kind of scummie (I'm not going to explain now why I think that is a scummie action) action, but everyone can make a long post, the fact that she made a long text doesn't mean she is definately scum. That whole wagon at her is just crap.

Exhibit C:

This whole wagon on Chevre is useless. She is just a townie, you will see if she dies.

This is the first time Dutch one is entirely certain.

Point II: Dutch one recognizes WIFOM, but ends up using it to beef up his cases.

Exhibit A:

Look at his [Jerbs] posts, and you will see that everything he does has to do with me. If you look at all his posts, then you will know he acts extremely scummie.
And something else, even if he is a townie, then what? We don't loose anything, he hasn't done anything good for the town. The only thing he does is a rediculous hunt to lynch me. IMO, if he is scum, then we can say "yes, we got one!" and if he appears to be a townie we can say "what a shame he is a townie... well, at least we don't loose anything important, so it's okay". If he is a townie, then he is a town idiot.

Exhibit B:

Sorry DGB, but that doesn't make sense. Just look at all his posts and everything you find is scummie or atleast something a town idiot would do. I don't see anything he posted yet that convinces me he isn't scum. And even if he is a townie, I don't think his death will harm the town. So he is a safe choice in my opinion

Dutch one is extremely incorrect in saying that, even if Jerbs is town, we lose nothing. Jerbs, if was lynched and was town, the gap between the number of scum and number of town would decrease. Dutch one here appears to be almost advocating a policy lynch. I may not know where your thoughts lie on policy lynches, but I disagree with this one especially.

Point III: Dutch one has contradicted himself

First, refer to Point I, and examine how much Dutch one tried to stop me from being lynched. Remember that I was up to L-1 for some point.

Exhibit A:

Just vote WW and we'll see who has been right. But there is just no way there is going to be a Spyrex, Gorrad, KMD, Seraphim, Xalce... etc. lynch today.

Exhibit B:

true, there are to many people who are sticking with their votes on WW (including me), there is no way someone else will be lynched at the end of the day. So please stop acting so extremely cockey, WW will be lynched. Learn to live with it...So please let this day end, just vote WW, he is the most suspicious candidate, and he is going to be lynched anyway

I will simply not believe that Dutch one believed that the werewolf555 lynch was far less inevitable than mine ever was. It appears that since the person he is voting is actually the leading bandwagon, everyone must go with it. However, when I was nearing lynch or even at L-1, Dutch one certainly didn't "live with it."
Exhibit C:

alright.. the WW-wagon is death now (while he never defended himself with good arguments). I will probably vote him again tomorrow, but he isn't going to be todays lynch anymore. I would've prefered to see a WW lynch, but Gorrad was either at my possible scum list, so I'm fine with a Gorrad-lynch as well.

So for some reason, I thought that werewolf555

was

the Day 1 lynch, and then I saw this. Even after Dutch one said werewolf555's lynch was inevitable, he switches. This actually seems like a subtle wagon hop.

Point IV: The Day 2 reaction

Exhibit A:
[quote="Dutch one, isolation post #41]Crap! We lost a doctor. well, at least Xalxe is gone. But I'm quite disappointed that both Gorrad and Werewolf turned out to be VT's.[/quote]
What have I learned from this post? Nothing I didn't already know from Kublai Khan's earlier posts. Furthermore, this post (and the next few posts) provide absolutely nothing in the way of analysis. Therefore, the post was entirely unnecessary.

Point V: A subtle Appeal to Emotion

Exhibit A:
[quote="Dutch one, isolation post #49]@Pokerface,

sorry

I never answered you about that. I started with pointing out my reads after the nightkills, but it took quite long so I pm'd everything I wrote to myself so I could finish it later. I hope Í'm able to post it today, but

I have to walk the entire day with my parents today

, so I'm not sure when I've got time for it. But I promise I will post it soon [/quote]
Three things jumped out to me as appeals to emotion. First, the (bolded first) sorry is the easiest, it's just kind of a "please don't be mad, I'm really trying, can't you see?" as the rest of that post carries on. The second thing is the (bolded second) useless details. Dutch one could've simply said, "I'll be unable to post today," but he went even further by not only telling us what he was doing, but making it sound awful (at least, walking the entire day with one's parents sounds awful to me). Finally, the winky emoticon. It's just unnecessary, it's not supplementing a snarky joke or bit of sarcasm. I almost feel like it could be subconsciously linking Dutch one and PokerFace.

Other Points

Dutch one's reasoning for DrippingGoofBall not being dead does not make sense. DrippingGoofball, was seen as a prominent player, but he still received his fair share of suspicion.

While Dutch one accuses of me of suddenly dropping my accusations, he's flipping from "Chevre is a townie for sure" to "Chevre is suspicious." In fact, almost everything in Dutch one's last post is suspecting of me.

[Chevre]

I was going to summarize everyone, but when I got to Dutch one, I realized how INCREDIBLY scummy he is. I feel it's better to focus on him, rather than ISO everyone again.

Point I: Dutch one is entirely too sure that I am town

Exhibit A:

Chevre for an example, has been accused a lot. But if you think about it, he has never had many support. He had to defend himself in his own everytime, and he still has a lot of votes against him. I think that if we lynch him, he will just be a townie, because it's just always the same. Someone like Chevre is always lynched in the biginning, and it is almost always town. In the beginning, we are just lynching the person who says something wrong, or who has a lot of enemies (in the game).

Exhibit B:

Chevre (so many people are attacking her, and if you look back to earlier in the game, then you see that even more people have been voting for her. Se doesn't have many allies/support so I don't think she is scum. She e is just an example of the "standert" townie that is most often lynched in the first day. And about her "text-walls", yes that is kind of scummie (I'm not going to explain now why I think that is a scummie action) action, but everyone can make a long post, the fact that she made a long text doesn't mean she is definately scum. That whole wagon at her is just crap.

Exhibit C:

This whole wagon on Chevre is useless. She is just a townie, you will see if she dies.

This is the first time Dutch one is entirely certain.

Point II: Dutch one recognizes WIFOM, but ends up using it to beef up his cases.

Exhibit A:

Look at his [Jerbs] posts, and you will see that everything he does has to do with me. If you look at all his posts, then you will know he acts extremely scummie.
And something else, even if he is a townie, then what? We don't loose anything, he hasn't done anything good for the town. The only thing he does is a rediculous hunt to lynch me. IMO, if he is scum, then we can say "yes, we got one!" and if he appears to be a townie we can say "what a shame he is a townie... well, at least we don't loose anything important, so it's okay". If he is a townie, then he is a town idiot.

Exhibit B:

Sorry DGB, but that doesn't make sense. Just look at all his posts and everything you find is scummie or atleast something a town idiot would do. I don't see anything he posted yet that convinces me he isn't scum. And even if he is a townie, I don't think his death will harm the town. So he is a safe choice in my opinion

Dutch one is extremely incorrect in saying that, even if Jerbs is town, we lose nothing. Jerbs, if was lynched and was town, the gap between the number of scum and number of town would decrease. Dutch one here appears to be almost advocating a policy lynch. I may not know where your thoughts lie on policy lynches, but I disagree with this one especially.

Point III: Dutch one has contradicted himself

First, refer to Point I, and examine how much Dutch one tried to stop me from being lynched. Remember that I was up to L-1 for some point.

Exhibit A:

Just vote WW and we'll see who has been right. But there is just no way there is going to be a Spyrex, Gorrad, KMD, Seraphim, Xalce... etc. lynch today.

Exhibit B:

true, there are to many people who are sticking with their votes on WW (including me), there is no way someone else will be lynched at the end of the day. So please stop acting so extremely cockey, WW will be lynched. Learn to live with it...So please let this day end, just vote WW, he is the most suspicious candidate, and he is going to be lynched anyway

I will simply not believe that Dutch one believed that the werewolf555 lynch was far less inevitable than mine ever was. It appears that since the person he is voting is actually the leading bandwagon, everyone must go with it. However, when I was nearing lynch or even at L-1, Dutch one certainly didn't "live with it."
Exhibit C:

alright.. the WW-wagon is death now (while he never defended himself with good arguments). I will probably vote him again tomorrow, but he isn't going to be todays lynch anymore. I would've prefered to see a WW lynch, but Gorrad was either at my possible scum list, so I'm fine with a Gorrad-lynch as well.

So for some reason, I thought that werewolf555

was

the Day 1 lynch, and then I saw this. Even after Dutch one said werewolf555's lynch was inevitable, he switches. This actually seems like a subtle wagon hop.

Also, in Dutch one's last post, while Dutch one accuses of me of suddenly dropping my accusations and switching to him, he's flipping from "Chevre is a townie for sure" to "Chevre is suspicious." In fact, almost everything in Dutch one's last post is suspecting of me.

Point IV: The Day 2 reaction

Exhibit A:
[quote="Dutch one, isolation post #41]Crap! We lost a doctor. well, at least Xalxe is gone. But I'm quite disappointed that both Gorrad and Werewolf turned out to be VT's.[/quote]
What have I learned from this post? Nothing I didn't already know from Kublai Khan's earlier posts. Furthermore, this post (and the next few posts) provide absolutely nothing in the way of analysis. Therefore, the post was entirely unnecessary.

Point V: A subtle Appeal to Emotion

Exhibit A:
[quote="Dutch one, isolation post #49]@Pokerface,

sorry

I never answered you about that. I started with pointing out my reads after the nightkills, but it took quite long so I pm'd everything I wrote to myself so I could finish it later. I hope Í'm able to post it today, but

I have to walk the entire day with my parents today

, so I'm not sure when I've got time for it. But I promise I will post it soon [/quote]
Three things jumped out to me as appeals to emotion. First, the (bolded first) sorry is the easiest, it's just kind of a "please don't be mad, I'm really trying, can't you see?" as the rest of that post carries on. The second thing is the (bolded second) useless details. Dutch one could've simply said, "I'll be unable to post today," but he went even further by not only telling us what he was doing, but making it sound awful (at least, walking the entire day with one's parents sounds awful to me). Finally, the winky emoticon. It's just unnecessary, it's not supplementing a snarky joke or bit of sarcasm. I almost feel like it could be subconsciously linking Dutch one and PokerFace.

Other Points

Dutch one's reasoning for DrippingGoofBall not being dead does not make sense. DrippingGoofball, was seen as a prominent player, but he still received his fair share of suspicion.

[Cyberbob]

Oh for the love of

I don't like this.

Unvote, Vote: Chevre

[Chevre]

Oh wow, I did not mean to post that twice.

[Kmd4390]

Chevre, you should claim to hurry this up.

[RedCoyote]

If you guys are going to force me to choose between Chevre and Dutch, you know I'm going to choose Dutch. Chevre is not scum.

DGB, how's that big list of reads of yours holding up? Have you been updating it?

[RedCoyote]

Unvote

;

Vote: Dutch one

[Dutch one]

"I was going to summarize everyone, but when I got to Dutch one, I realized how INCREDIBLY scummy he is. I feel it's better to focus on him, rather than ISO everyone again."

please don't act like your read on me is new. You haven't realized anything, you are just saying the same over and over again for weeks.
And those text-walls make it very decouraging to read your post (though this is not an accusation)

VOTE:

VOTE: Chevre

[RedCoyote]

Ugh.

Unvote

[curiouskarmadog]

here about a page behind or so, think Chevre is at -1...have no problem hammering tomorrow (if needed) once I read back up...see bob jumping on the wagon, looks like scum trying to get bus points last second.

[Cyberbob]

here about a page behind or so, think Chevre is at -1...have no problem hammering tomorrow (if needed) once I read back up...see bob jumping on the wagon, looks like scum trying to get bus points last second.

haha yeah totes bro im like fully bussing atm you got it in one!!

[Weatherman]

Weatherman's solid Town, poking at PF with a stick while everyone else is fixated elsewhere.

People I'll lynch:
[...]
Weatherman
[...]

?

I have a full blown null read on Chevre. Iam's case good as far as cases go but not truly feeling either way. D1 wagon makes me meh. With deadline tomorrow willing to lynch a null.
claim asap, chevre. I think you would be hammered already if Dutch hadn't written vote; vote x instead of unvote; vote x.

out of more popular (in speech) second options, I'd lynch this guy

unvote; vote: SpyreX

[Weatherman]

Oh fuck, today is Saturday? Two days until deadline then. Good. I should work less.

[Chevre]

Chevre, you should claim to hurry this up.

I already claimed on Day 1. I am a vanilla townie.

[yabbaguy]

@Chevre's Dutch_one case.

I: That's fine - why is this overconfidence or relying on known information?
II: Not scummy - Dutch is a weaker player, and this is still possible.
III: From A to C, the wagon was actually dying. Fair point by Dutch.
IV: That's your stance. We've been over this, and we generally conclude the tell itself is speculative.
V: This happens constantly from Town. AtE is not a scumtell. People make these posts constantly as all alignments.

Vote sticks.

I'd like to warn the Town that we should have at most two wagons, and I only see Chevre and SpyreX as plausible. PokerFace, I have no read on, and Dutch one is a lousy choice. The standalone votes and nonvoters are categorically anti-Town right now.

[PokerFace]

For Yabba my Top suspects

Chevre and dutch

-Giant gap-

inhim
Red Coyote
Korlash

People I might re-think

DGB
No case
I have been listening to you yabba, there are some questionable things these two have been doing in relation to the dutch and chevre wagons. How they feel about them but I'm saving looking at them for later as if dutch and chevre are not scum then there is not real point to look at no case. I do still want to see DGB regain to luster she had earlier in the game and or give some reasons for what she is doing cause her recent wagoning and comments seem almost par with what inhim is doing. imhim has been wagoning and his recent opinion change on weatherman is surprising. I'll admit to one of the reasons that weatherman pointed to is interesting

I still don't get the SpryeX case. Is it just meta? Cause I don't see or understand where that one came from. I like to lynch on more than meta and I like to lynch on more than just lurking. KMD and ckd to a lesser extent have been lurking but... thats it. Either I missed memo (it probably involved title pages and TPS reports) or lurking is it and I'd rather lynch for more reasons than that. If someone wants to give me more reasons I'd like it

Korlash's view of Anti and xtoxm given the recent proceedings feels all wrong. What anti and xtoxm did made sence. Korlash has been one to point out important details and cercumstances I have missed before but this seemed like he was trying to discredit things other than reason them along to what is likly scenario. Like his purpose was to discredit anti and not see who was telling the truth. Basically get us against them. Xtoxm and Anti are not confirmed but given how everyone thinks so well of them, discrediting them would be something scum would want to do.

Spyre X said Korlash dropped a serious town tell I'd like to know what it was. Other than the antihero comment, Korlash ain't done no wrong. Perhaps Korlash can explain the Spyre X case to me.

That way I can see if investigating or questioning Korlash with further suspicions is worth it and get a grasp on the SpyreX situation too. That would be most helpfull. So yes Korlash enlighten me on Spyre X when you get chance and Spyre X please do the same on Korlash

~~~~~

- Re PokerFace's little followup on my post about CKD: did you miss the part where the thing I was misunderstanding wasn't the entirety of why I voted him or what? I still didn't/don't like the way he threw his vote on an unrelated party for no good reason.
- I mostly concur with Korlash's reaction to Antihero in Post 1328.

Ok that I get. I think I got lost in all the stuff going on and forgot your had brought that up as well. Given what else you said in that post you'd have rather ckd waited out the situation with where his vote was or put it on nither as apposed to seeking a new direction or no taking part and avoind the xtoxm/antihero situation. yes?

And you agree with Korlash? So you think Anti-hero could have done all that in a scum attempt to get rid of xtoxm during the day? Would it not be simplier to just wait til night to kill xtoxm since it looked like he was claiming cop?

Bob's remarks on nocase are good. His jump on the chevre wagon given what no case has said about her before looks bad for no case. The begining of post 1387 paints a good picture of a no case chevre link from the other side of the page. Chevre did kinda stay out of saying how she felt about no case's fake post restriction. The rest of iamusernames post goes into giving good reasons why chevre needs to die and I won't complain about that

~~~~~

I reviewed chevre's recent case on dutch. I don't see how it was buddying or an attempt by dutch to get on your good side chevre or an attempt to look good as a result of your death as in an I told you so manor. 1 he didn't say I told you so about gorrad or the others because he stated he thought the opposite was gonna be true. That was not and I told you so and 2...

I will simply not believe that Dutch one believed that the werewolf555 lynch was far less inevitable than mine ever was. It appears that since the person he is voting is actually the leading bandwagon, everyone must go with it. However, when I was nearing lynch or even at L-1, Dutch one certainly didn't "live with it."

This is why. WW is dead and flipped town. If Dutch is scum and you are vanilla town as you claim chevre, then why didn't dutch treat you the same as he treated WW? If you are town, you have the same role as WW and Dutch knows it as you claimed it and scum would suspect town to lie. And Dutch scum's actions as you present then would make no sence from a buddying perspect because you and WW would have some role and you to had both acted equally dumb and anti town on day one. Hell what you said in that post is half the reason I think you two are buddies. Dutch favored lynching WW over you, you both played bad and anti town, Dutch gave no good reason to thinking you were town other than thinking the day 1 lynch would be unproductive and likly hit town. If he gave a good reason yesterday that goes against why he is voting you now I'd like to see it. Lookslike you too are just desperatly trying to save your own hides. You can read this paragraph again and compare how dutch treated gorrad and jumped to him at the end of day 1. He wanted a townie dead not you dead and WW and goarrad were town while I think both you and dutch are scum

Three things jumped out to me as appeals to emotion. First, the (bolded first) sorry is the easiest, it's just kind of a "please don't be mad, I'm really trying, can't you see?" as the rest of that post carries on. The second thing is the (bolded second) useless details. Dutch one could've simply said, "I'll be unable to post today," but he went even further by not only telling us what he was doing, but making it sound awful (at least, walking the entire day with one's parents sounds awful to me). Finally, the winky emoticon. It's just unnecessary, it's not supplementing a snarky joke or bit of sarcasm. I almost feel like it could be subconsciously linking Dutch one and PokerFace.

Ha Ha yay nice try. Harping on 'anybody' like that when you don't know what they do in real life is just wrong. I'll admit cutch did lurk from my comments some and spyreX pointed it out plainly earlier but its really not in good taste to do it on something like this. Don't harp on an excuse, harp on when there is no excuse. When SpyreX pointed out Dutch's "?" post there was no excuse so that was a good catch while what you are doing is not. Looks like you are just trying to find any reason to go after dutch as your buddying reason was crap. Yay you two can't find the right reasons to go after each other so it all looks like fake distancing because you really are together

I am down with lynching chevre and or dutch. Don't care who goes first. You want me to hammer now or is there something you guys thing we should wait for?

[PokerFace]

ugh I am poor typist ebwop time

Ok that I get. I think I got lost in all the stuff going on and forgot your had brought that up as well. Given what else you said in that post you'd rather ckd had waited out the situation with where his vote was. Or you wish he had not voted either as apposed to avoiding the situation by perhaps looking elsewhere for scum. yes?

my speech gets convoluted some times and I didn't entirly like how i said it earlier, seemed confusing to me and I said it

...

This is why. WW is dead and flipped town. If Dutch is scum and you are vanilla town as you claim chevre, then why didn't dutch treat you the same as he treated WW? If you are town, you have the same role as WW and Dutch knows it as you claimed it and scum

wouldn't

suspect town to lie.

[yabbaguy]

If we can get to L-1 really, really quickly, we can demand a claim and have some time to discuss. NOT swinging the hammer, however, would be a larger problem since the deadline alarm just went off.

[DrippingGoofball]

Chevre making a case against Dutch_one looks like lollipop snatching.

[Antihero]

Chevre making a case against Dutch_one looks like lollipop snatching.

I'm sure there's a universe out there in which this line makes sense.

This one isn't it.

[RedCoyote]

They're both town. I want no part of this, really.