Mafia 125: Khan's Game of Mafia (Game Over)


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Post Post #1375 (ISO) » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:18 pm

Post by Cyberbob »

Ugh, ok finally. Sorry about the longer than expected delay... I had some unforseen things crop up that needed dealing with.

Dotpoint ListTM starting from the top of Page 52:

- Don't really like inHim's "(along with me :))" bit in his Post 1277.
- Agree with nocase's Post 1281; he's really just not been coming off particularly well with many of his posts during this little saga.
- I think some people are overreacting a little bit to yabbaguy's ~confirmed town~ schtick, it never seemed that serious to me.
- Somewhat grateful for xtoxm's Post 1301 putting his claim in a nice and unambiguous manner; I fucking hate it when people dole out that kind of thing in dribs and drabs and then every time you want to go back and read up on what they claimed you have to trawl through a heap of posts. I'm rambling.
- Oh Antihero. His reaction to DGB in the following post from his claim was hilarious and if he is indeed town he made an incredibly hasty move with that claim. Still, his claim is believable enough as stupid town.
Unvote

- nocase's vote on me is a non-issue, I do wish people would get over this fad of using placeholder votes in lieu of simply going for a while without having their votes on anyone though.
- Re PokerFace's little followup on my post about CKD: did you miss the part where the thing I was misunderstanding wasn't the entirety of why I voted him or what? I still didn't/don't like the way he threw his vote on an unrelated party for no good reason.
- I mostly concur with Korlash's reaction to Antihero in Post 1328.
- Not quite sure why people are still voting Chevre. Has anything changed in the last few pages that I've missed? Doesn't really seem like it to me.
- At least nocase saw the error of his ways in Post 1355 I guess.
- lol @ ckd's Post 1371. lol.

Generally speaking I still don't like that Chevre wagon, I mean sure I'll jump on if it means avoiding a No Lynch or something stupid but I don't think there's any likelihood of that happening. nocase is literally jumping back on there for lack of anything else to do - after admitting that he liked the way she's been posting today no less. Ridiculous.
Vote: nocase
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Post Post #1376 (ISO) » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:21 am

Post by Antihero »

Hm, my vote's being wasted. UNVOTE:

The only votes I can see the reasoning for are inhim (I'd have to look at cyberbob and dutch).

In retrospect, cyberbob calling anyone down on "douchebaggery" is laughable.
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Post Post #1377 (ISO) » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:22 am

Post by Cyberbob »

Antihero wrote:In retrospect, cyberbob calling anyone down on "douchebaggery" is laughable.
chill out bro it's just how i roll nothing personal
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Post Post #1378 (ISO) » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:23 am

Post by Cyberbob »

(actually it's a moot point I haven't called anyone out for "douchebaggery" so)
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Post Post #1379 (ISO) » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:35 am

Post by Antihero »

Cyberbob wrote:
Antihero wrote:In retrospect, cyberbob calling anyone down on "douchebaggery" is laughable.
chill out bro it's just how i roll nothing personal
Yeah keep up with that cute response and then call me stupid again. That'll show me you're not acting like a condescending jerk.

I'm not seeing the nocase suspicion; willingness to settle for a suboptimal lynch is more of a sign that he's given up on getting his first choice.
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Post Post #1380 (ISO) » Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:01 pm

Post by Cyberbob »

Antihero wrote:Yeah keep up with that cute response and then call me stupid again. That'll show me you're not acting like a condescending jerk.
You're not stupid for making a stupid move, everyone does these things from time to time. You unironically shouldn't take it personally - no cuteness here.
Antihero wrote:I'm not seeing the nocase suspicion; willingness to settle for a suboptimal lynch is more of a sign that he's given up on getting his first choice.
Except it's not even a suboptimal lynch - he's literally going straight from "oh I guess there's not really anything to suspect Chevre of" to "welp guess I'd better vote her!!" with little in between. I could understand if KK had called the 3 day warning or something but there's no valid reason to be pulling this kind of move yet.
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Post Post #1381 (ISO) » Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:01 pm

Post by nocase »

i'm voting chevre because i'm bored as fuck, the game isn't moving forward, and my town read on her is weak.
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Post Post #1382 (ISO) » Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:08 pm

Post by Cyberbob »

nocase wrote:i'm voting chevre because i'm bored as fuck, the game isn't moving forward, and my town read on her is weak.
If you're bored as fuck then either find a way to unbore yourself or replace out. Your influence is every bit as toxic as the things you've been bemoaning.
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Post Post #1383 (ISO) » Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:13 pm

Post by nocase »

would rather ride the spell out.
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Post Post #1384 (ISO) » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:21 pm

Post by Cyberbob »

looking forward to its conclusion then I guess
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Post Post #1385 (ISO) » Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:27 pm

Post by RedCoyote »

inHim sounds like a lynch that will please everyone.
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Post Post #1386 (ISO) » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:08 pm

Post by iamausername »

iamausername wrote:I might do some effort posting to explain why everybody should be voting Chevre if I need to
Korlash wrote:I've forgotten more then I know about chev already, in fact the only thing I can remember about her yesterday was that I seemed to be against her lynch. So while I'm willing to relook at whatever case is against her today odds are I'll come to the same conclusion.
Cyberbob wrote:Not quite sure why people are still voting Chevre. Has anything changed in the last few pages that I've missed? Doesn't really seem like it to me.
Antihero wrote: The only votes I can see the reasoning for are inhim (I'd have to look at cyberbob and dutch).
alright alright i get it guys
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Post Post #1387 (ISO) » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:34 am

Post by iamausername »

Here are a couple of quotes from Chevre regarding nocase post restriction nonsense at the start of the game:
You need to explain your restriction; otherwise, people have plenty of reasoning to suspect you.
That being said, nocase and inHimshallibe, why would you lie about having a post restriction? Certain philosophies would have you lynched under that statement.
"people have plenty of reason to suspect you"
"certain philosophies would have you lynched"

The important point here is that neither of these quotes actually say anything about how Chevre herself feels, merely that people in general would probably find this behaviour suspicious. It's seriously weasely.

Image

Later, Chevre posts 98 paragraphs explaining the rules of mafia which nobody is actually able to read, and implies that inHim is scum for admitting to not reading it. I find it difficult to believe that Chevre would genuinely think that every town player would bother to read that post. I'm pretty sure Chevre was fully aware that someone would respond to that pile of bullshit with a "tl;dr", and the entire reason she posted it was to act snotty and say "I guess you don't care about the town winning" as soon as anyone balked at actually reading it.

Katsuki says "Re: Chevre wall, I see no pro-town reasoning for typing such a giant wall of text at this point of the game". Chevre responds with "Katsuki, give me a few reasons why scum would make the post I did".

Yes, that's totally reasonable, Katsuki can't just say "there's no reason for town to do that" without also explaining why scum would do iOH HEY WAIT A MINUTE
Chevre, [url=https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=2743843#p2743843]Post #182[/url] wrote:I do know that anything that seems out-of-the-ordinary or not seeming to benefit the town is scummy.
I guess this doesn't apply to Chevre herself.
Chevre wrote: nocase, I find that very anti-town of you, to say that Xalxe is not scumhunting and then when he asks you a legitimate question of elaboration, you tell him to stop posting. How is that going to help us?
"That's anti-town" is basically another version of "some people would find that suspicious". Why is Chevre always talking about the average man's reads and not her own?

Chevre's second giant text wall is actually readable, and it's understandable that this saved her from the lynch yesterday. On the surface, it looks pretty good; she actually takes a lot of solid stances here. It's too bad that's all completely evaporated over the course of D2.

Chevre begins D2 with a vote on CKD, which she explains thusly:
Chevre wrote:In my "I'm going to be lynched so here's everything" post, I stated that I thought you were leaning scummy ever-so-slightly. That's pretty much my sole reasoning for the vote. I with werewolf555 nked, I was unsure of where to start.
What she doesn't ever explain is why her vote fell on CKD, her fourth highest scumread in the referenced post, and not on her #2 or #3 suspects, Jerbs and Dutch one (#1 suspect was werewolf, who is of course dead). Especially given her quick hop over to the Dutch wagon, it seems to me that she was just voting with popular opinion there.
Chevre wrote:Pokerface, I voted for curiouskarmadog to begin today because I didn't have a solid starting point, and I felt he was slightly scummy before. I'm very convinced that Dutch one is scum; the way he alone defended me on Day 1 when it looked as if I was going to be lynched looked so much like scum buddying to town.
Here she explains again and directly contradicts herself. "I didn't have a solid starting point" followed by "I'm very convinced that Dutch one is scum". Why wasn't that a solid starting point? It's not based on anything Dutch one did on D2.
Chevre wrote:Hmmm, I seem to have missed where we confirmed XtoXm as town.

This is not a town post. This is the response of scum who is irritated that people have figured out that someone is town.

Chevre's latest post. We've gone from those seemingly solid stances at the end of D1 to this jelly-like substance where everybody gets coated in a thin layer of suspicion, and Chevre floats along with popular opinion like a Drifloon in the wind.

I don't understand at all how nocase reached the conclusion that Chevre's D2 posting has been good. It's been horrendous.
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Post Post #1388 (ISO) » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:28 am

Post by Cyberbob »

RedCoyote wrote:inHim sounds like a lynch that will please everyone.
I'd be down.
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Post Post #1389 (ISO) » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:54 am

Post by Xtoxm »

While I don't object particularly to an inHim lynch, Spyrex would be my personal perference.
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Post Post #1390 (ISO) » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:47 am

Post by PokerFace »

Man I need to request some off work and soon. Read through the chevre and duth posts I missed earlier. Here's what I have to say:

@DGB

I'm starting to see what Antihero is talking about. I don't remember you guiving any reasons why you think certain players are scum. Can you give reasons on who you think is scum and why or direct me to where you have posted reasons? Do you still think Anti-hero had no reason to claim?

~~~~~~~

Chevre's presence on the dutch wagon is unsettling to me. From my point of view it looked like he jumped on the dutch to straight up protect himself.
Chevre wrote:In my "I'm going to be lynched so here's everything" post, I stated that I thought you were leaning scummy ever-so-slightly. That's pretty much my sole reasoning for the vote. I with werewolf555 nked, I was unsure of where to start.

I think if I am lynched/killed before Dutch one, you should immediately lynch Dutch one afterwards. The way he buddied me seemed like scum trying to appear town by saying "I told you so" after I'm lynched. Now with his reaction to the night's events, we know he will do that.
Vote: Dutch one
I don't see how he was budding with you earlier. If anything I think some of your interactions could make you both out to be scum buddies given I thought of it as scum buddy 1 trying to protect scum buddy 2.

@Chevre

Can you explain how you believed his actions too be buddying?

Your other comments on dutch don't look so good either
Chevre wrote:
Dutch one wrote:@Pokerface, sorry I never answered you about that. I started with pointing out my reads after the nightkills, but it took quite long so I pm'd everything I wrote to myself so I could finish it later. I hope Í'm able to post it today, but I have to walk the entire day with my parents today, so I'm not sure when I've got time for it. But I promise I will post it soon ;)
There are so many instances of subtle Appeal to Emotion in this post it was noticeable. I'm not saying that he lied about what he was doing that day, but I think by specifying exactly what it was instead of saying "I'll be unavailable for the day" was a subconscious way to try to detract suspicion
Meh, do you like the idea of people online knowing what you are doing in real life? Some people don't even if the online people are practically strangers
Chevre wrote:Xtoxm's immediate reaction of a vote to Antihero calling him out was very suspicious. It reads as if he'd been seemingly caught, so he retaliated in the harshest way he knew possible.
Looked to me like anti was calling him a liar originally and if you are being called that then xtoxm's reaction was fine. He unvoted later figuring what Antihero was doing had to have a reason. So in a way that kinda shows he kept his head about them whether acting harshly or not
Chevre wrote:SpyreX was far too easily pressured by Antihero asking for a vote on either him or Xtoxm. I probably wouldn't have voted either, simply because there was far too little information visible at that time. Xtoxm had said he knew yabbaguy was not dangerous, and Antihero said he was lying.
I didn't think antihero was really pressuring. he just thought xtoxm was lying. I think pressuring would be more in depth than. X is lying vote X. I don't really like where you are thinking in General here

@Chevre

Do you have any remaining suspicions on xtoxm and antihero that are actually rational?[/b][/i]

~~~~~~~
Dutch one wrote:One of the things that took my attention is a kill that didn't happen.
If you think about it, DGB has played a leading role since the start of the game, what makes him a very dangerous player. I really expected him to be nightkilled in day1 because of this.

Why is this noticable.
it would be very likely that they would've killed him, unless:
- he was scum himself (scum won't nightkill it's own members)
- he was at a very wrong track. Since he has quite a lot of influence in the game, people he thinks that are town are relatively save. If there is scum between his town reads, it is quite likely that they want to keep him in the game sice he is almost like a buffer for them.
- he was exactly at the right track. If he was exactly right it would've been obvious if he was nightkilled.
It is always diffcult to determine why certain players are alive. The scum may be planning to kill them later, there could be multiple people on the right track and scum can't make more than one kill. I can see why you are surprised but I don't know if we can actually determine the most likly answer
Dutch one wrote:Chevre. Before the end of the day, you have
always
been marked as a townie by DGB. That did save you from getting lynched. If you are scum it is very likely that you would've kept him alive, as a shield.
Can you show me this
always
? I am pretty sure DGB wanted him dead at a few point yesterday

Dutch one wrote:The thing about you is that you entirely changed after day 1. in the first day I had the feeling that you didn't really care that you was suspicious (you dared to take risks and your opinion about everything) but in day 2 you became very cautius. The only thing you have actually done in day 2 was accusing me from buddying you. A lot of people voted me in the beginning of this day so it was an easy bandwagon to jump on. I have the feeling that the only reason that you are still saying this is because you can't drop your accusations suddenly, you have to go on to not make it look like you didn't mean it.
And buddying??? How did you even get that idea? I defended you a couple of times in day 1 (maybe because I thought you were town and there were only a few votes needed before you was lynched), so that means that I tried to buddy you so I had a save status as scum?
in the beginning you started with saying "If I die, than Dutch One could possibly use my death to prove he was right." And now you are saying (without anything happened between these two posts concerning this case) "Dutch One was obviously buddying me, with meta's he tries to keep a neutral status. He has to die, no matter what."
I don't see how you can suddenly change you opinion from "well... it could be, but I'm not sure, it's only an idea..." to "OMG!! It's so obvious!! he is certainly scum, all evidence is there."

FOS Chevre
He figures if you'll give a reaction to night deaths and lynch deaths once, that you will do it again. I don't see it as scum buddying to town either nor do I believe your orginal actions were an I told you so
Dutch one wrote: _____________________
Gorrad
- 8 - iamausername, Cyberbob, DrippingGoofball, SpyreX, Antihero, inHimshallibe, yabbaguy, nocase
werewolf555
- 6 - Chevre, farside22, RedCoyote, Dutch one, Korlash, curiouskarmadog
Chevre - 2 - Seraphim,
Xalxe
, nocase - 2 -
Gorrad
,
werewolf555
, DrippingGoofball - 1 - Kmd4390
RedCoyote - 1 - Weatherman
_____________________

Gorrad wagon has too many persons on it to not have any scum.
Antihero probably voted Gorrad because he was a large (and believable) wagon. Antihero has had a lot of accusations his self, so I assume he went for the "easy and good" wagon.


Werewolf555 wagon. CKD has accused WW many times, he was very inactive so that was quite an easy target. Same as with Chevre.

DGB is not scummier because of Gorrads alignment. He was so busy with hammering Gorrad, you aren't doing that if you already know he is town. Than I would've suspected him to be more passive and neutral about his lynch (not obvious "screaming" your opinion).
Yabbaguy just jumped in at that moment, so I don't see any to get more suspicious on him because of this.
I'm a bit neutral about the others who voted Gorrad now.

Nocase wagon was purely town. But Nocase have been accused by many people on here (it's certain that both scum and town have accused him), when the day ended it was just coinicidental that there were only 2 townies voting for him. I don't really see that as very scummy, just coincidence.

Chevre wagon. Xalxe was third party scum. Probably voted him because he was still considered as a reasonable lynch. But Xalxe did not know who was all town and who were scum, so this doesn't defend Chevre either.
Descent analysis.
Tell me what you think of the recent anti and xtoxm events and if you have any suspicions that still hold on them


~~~~~~~

I'll catch up on everything else when I am off work tomorrow. Got to read all posts from 1363 onword. Rate things going I'd be happy lynching either of them. I think they can both be scum and scum together so order they go does not seem to matter
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Post Post #1391 (ISO) » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:38 am

Post by SpyreX »

yabba wrote:Who I absolutely would not lynch:
Dutch_one - case has been disintegrated ages ago
I missed this one before yabba. Squirrels going on a spree doesn't 'disintegrate' the play.

Seriously.

---

As for scum. It's still dutch. The vanishing act and then the comeback to an 'analysis' post that ends with no vote (and more than a little DGB is scum because she's not dead in there).

Chevre I'm still not seeing - I DO like IAUN's layout AND it'd be pretty tech to have that be a flip (inHim's leap isn't a bus, IAUN wouldn't be droppin team bombs up ins).

Of course, it could be moot because the more I think about it the more I'm convinced if there's multiple scumgroups DGB slipped up real, real bad in the before times and that DOES cause issues in the Chevre hate even if chevre is scum.

Of course, dutch flipping team-aligned scum would be a double hand to DGB scumbolinal
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Post Post #1392 (ISO) » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:54 am

Post by inHimshallibe »

People I'll lynch:
RedCoyote
Dutch one
Weatherman
DrippingGoofball
Kmd4390
Cyberbob
yabbaguy
curiouskarmadog
Chevre
PokerFace
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Post Post #1393 (ISO) » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:56 am

Post by Antihero »

That list is way too long.
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Post Post #1394 (ISO) » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:58 am

Post by Antihero »

And I have no idea why yabba, weatherman, or Pokerface are on it.
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Post Post #1395 (ISO) » Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:38 am

Post by DrippingGoofball »

Antihero wrote:That list is way too long.
Actually, half the players are missing, it's not long enough.
Paraphrasing a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.

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Post Post #1396 (ISO) » Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:45 am

Post by inHimshallibe »

DrippingGoofball wrote:
Antihero wrote:That list is way too long.
Actually, half the players are missing, it's not long enough.
She's right, you know.

Hell, I might vote for anyone but myself.
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Post Post #1397 (ISO) » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:25 pm

Post by nocase »

i feel for inhim. the town reads are not coming easily.

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Post Post #1398 (ISO) » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:35 pm

Post by Antihero »

It seems like there's a lot of spyrex hate floating around, but not a lot of people who actually voted spyrex (maybe a lot of people did and I'm just misremembering...?)
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Post Post #1399 (ISO) » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:00 pm

Post by SpyreX »

The number of votes is fairly connected with the number of reasons.

Additionally, as much as I'd love to hate all over Korlash for going BACK to this he did drop a pretty serious towntell so.
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