American Gods Mafia - Game over

[farside22]

@Wrath: I asked the mod about whether it take a majority to put someone backstage. He stated it didn't so in my view electing a person I have a good read on (yes page 6 is possible) I will elect them backstage.
I don't see why there is a reason to hold back. Do you?

I agree with Llama; discussing the possibilities of who to sacrifice/resurrect is pointless when we don't have any flips. If there's someone we want to resurrect then we should sacrifice a scumread, not specifically keep someone around for a policy sacrifice. With that in mind:

Vote: Agar

Except...I just read Llama's ISO, and he didn't mention anything like this. Ythill DID mention sacrifices, but he advocated the opposite (sacrificing players that are blatantly VIs). Hence, where are you getting the information from? I'd like you to explain what you meant, because I'm uneasy with the thought that you pulled this from somewhere less public than the normal thread.

Unvote; Vote: LL

Someone has selective reading here.

There is no real point to get into resurect at this point since no one is dead.

I'd also be up for an SGR lynch, however. That post on D2 just screams "Hello, I'm here and I'm going to defend Wraith because he's my scum buddy".

Have you seen scum day 1, first few pages that is a newb do this before?

@Wrath: I'm not explaining because you obviously didn't read and/or comprehend.

I read it. I understood so let me ask you something. If people are attacking you/voting for you are you not supposed to defend yourself?
Also the meta was a request from Ythill so your point on why that is scummy is....?????

Wrath could easily be SGR's scumbuddy after that little show

Referring to him defending wrath?

3) animor for thinking I am incredibly retarded and for placing down a small FoS so he can vote me later if the BW picks steam

Wait, saying that I'm suspicious of someone is scummy? First I've heard of it. Tipping point = reached.

unvote, vote: SGRaaize

That's not what I read from what you quoted above.

SGR is trying to avoid confrontation and attention. I find the latter more insidious, and definitely worthy of my attention first and foremost.

He is? He is responding to everyone. He's definately on my people's radar that were talking so how do you get avoiding confrontation and attention from?

If/when SGR flips scum, the following are his most likely buddies in order of likelihood:

AGar
Wrath
Locke

I'm still happy with my election votes right now, though I could just as easily elect Ythill as either of the two I'm currently voting to elect

Except for Locke your putting people together that are defending one another? How is that scummy?

None of the things you've just stated are fact. Its all spin. You're spinning things to try to make SGR look better.

unvote:
vote: OGML

scum list at this time:

OGML
Morph
Ghostlin

People of interest that make my spidy senses tingle:

GG
Llama

[Tasky]

I see a fair number of unfamiliar faces in the player list. That's what I get for inning based on flavor. Nexus, Tasky, Ghost, SGR, Saint, Apoc, Wrath: what is your level of experience?

I've played around 20 games since I joined, a lot of real life experience before that.

Can you please explain your case on me because I'm completely lost as to what it is. Are you seriously advocating my lynch because I OMGUS voted someone RVing me? It was clearly a return joke-vote, and basically the RV that he was voting me for not making. Do you really believe that I would in all seriousness OMGUS vote someone on a joke-vote and label it "OMGUS VOTE"?

I repear, If it were a true OMGUS vote, do you really think I would label it as such?

As far as the SGR lynch topic goes, of course this will be biased, but when I see someone defend a player who was not in need of a defense at the time (Yes, I did not need anyone to stick up for me because the votes on me make no sense and I consider them non-threatening at this time), I tend to think it is scum trying to buddy-up with a townie that they see as a likely lynch in an attempt to gain town-points. I think that scum-babying is incredibly obvious and would be avoided at all costs by scum.

first you act like "oh shit, they are voting me and I can't understand why!" and then you state you never considered them threatening.
VOTE: WrathChild

Also, protip: OMGUS isn't a scumtell.

finally someone who agrees with me on that.

Alright, so I'm being voted here.
Honestly, looking back at this game, I see nothing I did wrong, thus I don't feel guilty of this wasted day.
Have fun

UNVOTE: VOTE: SGRaaize

[A Gaggle of Geese]

Why is what SGR there said scummy, Tasky?

[Jahudo]

“It was you that brought me here, you and a few like you, into this land with no time for magic and no place for piskies and such folk.”

Nexus is V/LA until Tuesday, March 8.
Llamafluff is V/LA from March 5 to March 9.

Lynch Vote Count

SGRaaize (6) - OhGodMyLife, Ghostlin, Apokalyptika, Llamafluff, animorpherv1, Tasky
Animorpherv1 (5) – WrathChild, Ythill, A Gaggle of Geese, SGRaaize, vezokpiraka
OhGodMyLife (2) – AGar, farside22
Ghostlin (1) - werewolf555
Agar (1) - Locke Lamora
Llamafluff (1) – Nexus
Locke Lamora (1) – Seacore

Not Voting (1):

Saint

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to lynch.

--------------

Backstage Vote Count

Ythill (8) – Llamafluff, Seacore, animorpherv1, Ghostlin, Agar, farside22, SGRaaize, Vezokpiraka
Farside22 (7) – OhGodMyLife, animorpherv1, farside22, Seacore, SGRaaize, AGar, Ythill
Seacore (5) – Ythill, Seacore, Vezokpiraka, A Gaggle of Geese, SGRaaize
Llamafluff (4) – Ythill, Llamafluff, OhGodMyLife, animorpherv1
A Gaggle of Geese (4) – Vezokpiraka, WrathChild, Ghostlin, Apokalyptika
Ghostlin (2) – A Gaggle of Geese, Ghostlin
OhGodMyLife (2) – Llamafluff, OhGodMyLife
AGar (1) – farside22

Not Voting (21):

A Gaggle of Geese x1, Nexus x3, werewolf555 3x, Tasky x3, Saint x3, Apokalyptika x2, Agar x1, WrathChild x2, Locke Lamora x3

Top Four Players Go Backstage

Today's deadline is March 19 at 6:00 PM EST

[AGar]

Liking what I see so far from GG. I know CK3 can play well, he just seems to have had a complete lapse in town abilities in recent games. (But who can blame him after Lost S1).

Elect: A Gaggle of Geese

Going to move back to the Animorpher wagon, as I see that more fruitful at this point in time.

OGML is still uber scums, btw.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Animorpherv1

[Ghostlin]

Finished rereading. Both Seacore and Llama have gained some actual cred, the former more so.

Scum (in order): Ghost, ani, wrath, Apok.
People of interest: GG, LL.
Town: vezo, SGR, Seacore, Llama, farside.

Happy with my vote for now.

Re-elect: Seacore, Llama, farside.

Self-vote was being wasted. I'm indifferent to GG's hydra status; questioning their alignment.

@OGML:

You intrigue me because you've dropped a few towntells but your shift from gut to bad reasoning as the wagon built seems dirty. I looked closer at SGR and my initial read was accurate: he's doing the opposite of avoiding attention. It seems like you thought adding fluff to far's point would make it seem like your own.

@Wrath:

Did you read the rules?

This interests and concerns me. It interests me because according to this, I'm Ythill's #1 scumtell, full of congitive dissonance and pouplist: and yet he doesn't vote for me. If the point of the day 1 exercise is to get wagons moving and suspect as many people as you can, not voting your biggest scumtell seems...wrong to me. It either says he's not confident on getting a case on me, which hasn't stopped some folks in town or that he feels I'm really not the best lynch for today, which makes no sense if I'm really your number 1 scumtell you should be more than willing to get rid of me.

Sorry, no. I see some of you electing Ythill, I'm questioning his motives in posting a scumlist and not following up on it. It's insincere.

Unelect: Ythill

I need to reread the game, see what people are seeing about Ani, and maybe even decide if Ythill's worth a vote.

[SGRaaize]

Basically, Ythill doesn't want to vote for you because you aren't a BW, with only 2 votes on you and not many agreeing to join it.
If I could, I would also have you killed today, for sure

[AGar]

Large Theme Theory: Express your suspicions, try and start a bandwagon or get on a leading bandwagon to run up pressure on players.

If all of us chased our own suspicions, we'd have NLs left and right D1 & D2.

It's in towns best interest to form wagons on suspicious people, even if it's not everyone's #1 choice.

Ghostlin just jumped up as a scum-read, woo.

[Ghostlin]

Large Theme Theory: Express your suspicions, try and start a bandwagon or get on a leading bandwagon to run up pressure on players.

If all of us chased our own suspicions, we'd have NLs left and right D1 & D2.

It's in towns best interest to form wagons on suspicious people, even if it's not everyone's #1 choice.

Ghostlin just jumped up as a scum-read, woo.

That's an interesting deduction, and completely obseletes the reason we even bother to have cases. We're pretty early in Day 1: it wouldn't be hard to get a wagon started on me or any other player. That's my point, and I guess not one many want to latch onto.

[LlamaFluff]

unelect OMGL
elect GG

Can someone actually give me a concise ani case right now? As much as I think he is great policy lynch bait, I really cant find much there that justifies a lynch of him. That for him probably is a town tell since I have never seen it happen before.

SGR is a far better wagon then ani is, although there are a few people I think are more likely to flip scum at this point, and since this is very likely my last post until wednesday... time to make the best of it

unvote
Vote Ghost

His entire early case against SGR is that SGR is trying to figure out what the ani case is somewhat inefficiently. I think its a good thing to try and force out that case, because im not too sure it exists at this point.

Later we get this really nice comment

I need to reread the game, see what people are seeing about Ani, and maybe even decide if Ythill's worth a vote.

Well, now he is voting SGR, trying to see why ani is scum (which apprently is a tell to him) and maybe going in a third direction against someone who is already probably town for what looks like OMGUS-fuled reasoning. Agar already explained the logic behind that one, but I think we actually can get the ghost wagon started up here. To summarize this doozy though, Ghost just set himself up to be able to vote any of the top vote getters, without showing any indication of where he is leaning, the post is a great definiton of keeping your options open.

So yeah, I would like to see a third wagon option here by the time I get back. Also a few of the people voting ani give me a nice case on him. Just a paragraph or something will work, even though reading him in iso I think its going to be hard to scrounge up that much.

[Apokalyptika]

Elect: farside

I'm not seeing the Ghost-hate. Ani's last post is amusing; not necessarily because of the vote, but because of his failure to acknowledge that he was doing exactly what SGR said. Worth keeping an eye on, but I still like my SGR vote more (and I agree with Tasky as regards the scumminess of SGR's giving up post).

Looking at the interaction between OGML and AGar, OGML did misrepresent SGR, which is never good, but I'm actually getting fairly town feelings about him.

Wrath's completely dropped off the face of the earth in the last few pages, I see; the game's been moving pretty fast so it's not the biggest scumtell in the world, but still noteworthy.

Preview edit: I had a thing saying I hoped Llama would post before going V/LA and he did! That accusation against Ghost actually makes a fair bit of sense, I'll have to look into it more.

[Locke Lamora]

First of all,

Unvote; Vote: SGR

...for this change of tune on Ythill in the space of 36 hours:

1. Tells Farside Ythill would make much more sense as a suspect than WC:

If you have to suspect someone, it should be Ythill, for:

1) Suspecting WraithChild under no basis (Cause he didn't RV? Doesn't matter. Cause he said "First Post"? Means jackshit. Cause he joked "OMGUS", doesn't mean crap either

2) Thanking WraithChild for a confirmation on being scum, where in the last post he didn't say absolutely anything that would confirm or even slightly give a scum tell (For saying he is inactive at certain parts of the day? Nope, and ythill suspected Locke based on him quoting that. For saying he has victories as Mafia on another game? WIFOM at best, WTH at worst.

So, yeah, I know I sound like I'm buddying, but I have no idea what part of the answer turned you from "What's the pro..." to "WOW, yeah, I see it".

2. States people should nominate those they trust to go backstage:

Nominating people for backstage should be dealt out now, I see no disadvantage in voting for people you trust and putting them in the backstage, so that they can discuss whatever.

3. Nominates Ythill:

And I think I can decide on my election as of now:

Elect: farside22, Seacore, ythill

SGR: I asked WC about his schedule statement because for him to declare it unprompted, particularly when he wasn't actually about to go on V/LA, hinted at a concern that people might call him out on his schedule otherwise. I think that's more likely to be a scum concern than town. Having looked back at his first game, it seems that he did draw a lot of heat for being more concerned about how others perceive him than he was with scumhunting, so I'm putting less stock in it as a scumtell as he did it as town. Why did you think it was a) weird and b) lynch-worthy for me to ask that?

Seacore: do you disagree with my line of reasoning there?

Ghostlin: you seem to have completely glossed over this - when you 'read' Llama's ISO, what did you actually do?

Apok goes onto my scumlist for that last post, which features a whole lot of fence sitting and tentative finger-pointing at Ani, Wrath, and even taking the opportunity to fit Ghostlin in after 'not seeing the Ghost-hate' moments earlier.

Elect Farside, LlamaFluff, Gaggle of Geese

.

[Ghostlin]

unelect OMGL
elect GG

Can someone actually give me a concise ani case right now? As much as I think he is great policy lynch bait, I really cant find much there that justifies a lynch of him. That for him probably is a town tell since I have never seen it happen before.

SGR is a far better wagon then ani is

, although there are a few people I think are more likely to flip scum at this point, and since this is very likely my last post until wednesday... time to make the best of it

unvote
Vote Ghost

His entire early case against SGR is that SGR is trying to figure out what the ani case is somewhat inefficiently. I think its a good thing to try and force out that case, because im not too sure it exists at this point.

Later we get this really nice comment

I need to reread the game, see what people are seeing about Ani, and maybe even decide if Ythill's worth a vote.

Well, now he is voting SGR, trying to see why ani is scum

(which apprently is a tell to him) and maybe going in a third direction against someone who is already probably town for what looks like OMGUS-fuled reasoning Agar already explained the logic behind that one, but I think we actually can get the ghost wagon started up here. To summarize this doozy though, Ghost just set himself up to be able to vote any of the top vote getters, without showing any indication of where he is leaning, the post is a great definiton of keeping your options open.

So yeah, I would like to see a third wagon option here by the time I get back. Also a few of the people voting ani give me a nice case on him. Just a paragraph or something will work, even though reading him in iso I think its going to be hard to scrounge up that much.

Emphasis mine. You hedge your bets, then accuse me of doing the same thing when all I'd said was reread Ani and Ythill. Hypocrasy much?

I'm acutally trying to find the reasoning for cases on my own. You've 'requested' people present you with a case. In other words, it's

pretty damn scummy

to vote for people trying to do the same thing as you.

SGR case incoming.

[SGRaaize]

Elect: farside

I'm not seeing the Ghost-hate. Ani's last post is amusing; not necessarily because of the vote, but because of his failure to acknowledge that he was doing exactly what SGR said. Worth keeping an eye on, but I still like my SGR vote more (and I agree with Tasky as regards the scumminess of SGR's giving up post).

Looking at the interaction between OGML and AGar, OGML did misrepresent SGR, which is never good, but I'm actually getting fairly town feelings about him.

Wrath's completely dropped off the face of the earth in the last few pages, I see; the game's been moving pretty fast so it's not the biggest scumtell in the world, but still noteworthy.

Preview edit: I had a thing saying I hoped Llama would post before going V/LA and he did! That accusation against Ghost actually makes a fair bit of sense, I'll have to look into it more.

So, you agree with the logic that Ani was clearly FoSing me so he could BW me later, but you think that I'm still scummier, based on the fact I said "If you vote me, may god have mercy on this Town" (which isn't "If I'm lynched we're doomed", but more like "If you are derpy enough to lynch me for the reasons you have, then I don't see you winning this")

Ok then

1. Tells Farside Ythill would make much more sense as a suspect than WC:

What I said is that, on the sequence of messages I showed (The 4 quotes), you should have seen Ythill as the scummiest person of the group, because he was the one to cause a shitstorm for no motives, I have been corrected on the "no motives part", he does have motives, but honestly, they the one that started the shitstorm is completely far-fetched and the one after that is a little bit too far-fetched for my tastes

2. States people should nominate those they trust to go backstage:

Yes...

3. Nominates Ythill:

I am not contradicting myself, I said that Ythill was the one to cause the shitstorm between him and WrathChild, and I explained why one neutral person should see Ythill as the scummiest of the two based on those 4 posts. Regardless, I trust Ythill for his logic and scumhunting.

Am I being confusing? I think its fairly clear.

[Locke Lamora]

What are you talking about? You've disagreed with Ythill's logic throughout the game. I don't think you trust Ythill, I think you're electing him because you're just going with the crowd. It's totally inconsistent with your attitude to him.

[SGRaaize]

What? The only thing I disagreed on was WrathChild, we agree on Ghostlin and Ani, and we semi-agree on you.

[SGRaaize]

BTW, by that logic, you also have to suspect Ythill, amirite?
I disagreed with him on WrathChild "all the way through the game", yet he says I am a Town-read

Unfortunately, you decided to overlook Ythill.

I sure wonder why, I wonder if it has to do with the fact I have 6 votes on me

[Locke Lamora]

You can disagree with someone and still have a town-read on them. My point is you specifically outlined why people should find Ythill scummy (yet somehow abstract yourself from this situation as though you personally don't find these things scummy, but some people might, which is scummy in itself), you've stated on more than one occasion that you don't understand his reasoning, you specifically said people should elect based on logic and trust, then you elect someone whose logic you've disagreed with on multiple occasions. The inconsistency is mindboggling. Let's have a look:

To continue on from the quote I included at number 1 last time, here you imply that Ythill's suspicion of WC is highly dubious:

I'm still more curious on the beginning of this shitstorm instead of its current state.
What exactly, did Ythill see that could lead to a lynch on WrathChild.
Not only that, but he's not the only one thinking this, this isn't a insane idea in his mind, people are agreeing with him.

I just want to know:

What's so scummy about the first three posts from WrathChild?

You're telling me that you're not strongly disagreeing with his logic there?

Here, you address his clarification:

Hi there, SGR. The answer is quite simple.

Elucidate me

In Wrath's second post he changed his behavior in order to fit in.

Completely far-fetched, to say the least

In his third post he eluded to the fact that he wouldn't have failed to random vote at all but he'd forgotten it was considered scummy here, thereby confirming that his top priority is avoiding suspicion.

That's a good point, I think its still a little bit far-fetched, but I see where you're getting at

Finally you half-agree with ONE of Ythill's points, and even that's a stretch; how can it be a 'good point' and 'far-fetched' at the same time?

Then, Ythill helps to build the wagon on you, even saying that "Wagoning townreads iz fun" and I'm assuming you don't agree with that logic.

[SGRaaize]

Here's the deal
Ythill votes Wrathchild under a extremely far-fetched motive
Wrathchild responds confused
Ythill now gets a logic (although still way too far-fetched for my taste) scum-tell from Wrathchild

^
If I had to vote one of these two, I'd vote Ythill, because he was the one to create the shitstorm, first making a vote out of something very far-fetched, so that he could use a read later. What I said here wasn't supposed to mean "I suspect Ythill" (and I'm fairly positive it didn't give that impression). It was in answer to farside22 seeing the same thing Ythill saw in WrathChild's response.

I was basically saying "What the heck are you guys seeing in WrathChild that is scummy? If I had to vote someone, it'd be Ythill, he was the one to create this in the first place"

Now, Ythill has made good points aside from this (and he followed a BW on me while saying I'm a Town-read, so, basically, he wants to lynch someone, which isn't Scummy, wasting days with NL's = Scummy) and I trust him.

So, I elected him.

I hope that makes it clear

[animorpherv1]

@farside:

@Meta - I see little to no reason for meta in most cases, because people can easily enough go around and switch their behaviors, which makes meta a null, imo.
@ no defense - I understand you are supposed to defend, I just saw a whole crap load of it.
@"that's not what I read" - That's a difference of opinion. I can't really argue that.
@ Scum D1 - SGR has been around for about a year. Something tells me that it's not a noob mistake, but a more planned gesture.

[SGRaaize]

How exactly would I be making a Noob Mistake by trying to see logic in a BW with far-fetched motives on someone?
You assume two possibilities, Noob Mistake and Planned Gesture, you ignore Noob Mistake because you don't think I'm a noob, that's all fine, but you're missing the possibility where I actually wanted to find out what people found on WrathChild that justified a BW

[WrathChild]

OK, I'm back, and people saying I dropped off the face of the earth are exactly why I posted my schedule. BRB with comments.

[WrathChild]

Though before I do my re-read today, I was thinking about this game last night. I shouldn't have got worked up like I did earlier and I don't really plan on getting worked up in the future UNLESS we are in LyLo or out of revives. I was playing this like a normal mafia game where once you are lynched you are dead, but that's not the case in this game. The very best thing any one can do in this game is make their opinions valuable. So I'm gonna get to work with that in mind.

[Locke Lamora]

SGR: so you don't think Ythill coming up with 'far-fetched' reasons to vote WC is scummy? Also, you never answered my question about me talking about WC's schedule.

WC: have you got some kind of paranoia about your schedule? It's not like you've been away a week. It hasn't even been 24 hours. This is why I picked up on that first post; if you were more concerned with hunting scum than with your own appearance to others, that would not be your first thought upon returning to the game.

[LlamaFluff]

I'm acutally trying to find the reasoning for cases on my own. You've 'requested' people present you with a case. In other words, it's

pretty damn scummy

to vote for people trying to do the same thing as you.

Im saying that ani is more likely town then scum, asking for a case on him is my attempt at taking down the wagon since I dont think such a case exists.

The way you present the SGR/ani/Ythill thing, you seem to say that all three players are scummy, but you are putting the burden of finding a case on ani on others. I am saying ani is town, and forcing a case out of people, completely different things given how our reads differ.