Mafia 123 - Outdoorsmen Mafia 2 GAME OVER

[DemonHybrid]

Vote: Nacho

- He wasn't originally aware of there being two scum factions.

Nothing that he talked about involved one scum faction total and you can't honestly prove that he had that in mind regardless. Can you contribute more?

DH, why did you feel the need to jump to Nacho's defence here? If you read Nacho's posts again now, with the benefit of hindsight, do you still think there's nothing in them that indicates that he wasn't aware of there being two scum teams?

I thought the reasoning was a bit shoddy for the vote. Notice that I asked Empking to contribute more; I wanted more information from him instead. Nacho even mentioned 2 scumteams in a later post before Empking asked that question, and nothing before that mentioning of two scumteams was indicative that he believed that there was only one scumteam: Just a lot of grouping players into a town or scum category.

[SharkFinn]

@iam: The best I can see is that DH was basically putting himself in a very defensive position and putting himself in hole? Idk tbh what the hole reference is toward. Maybe bad logic? What are you thinking UT meant by it?

tbh, at that time of his post, DH was in a defensive position basically protecting his "if EPM is scum, then Guardian is scum too" position as well as getting onto EPM for critizing Nacho (soon to be Calcifer).

Reading back again and DH's mentions a statement where he basically critizes a player for chainsawing another (i'll go back and find it), yet DH basically chainsaws EPM for attacking Nacho since EPM was not going to call him obvtown. I know as town, I've played the way EPM did (in that regard) so Im thinking DH is overreacting, thus the chainsaw.

[SharkFinn]

Parama. Easier to say.

If EPM is scum, so is Guderian.

DH, despite whatever you say, you setup this lynch. Whenever EPM flips, you would have autovoted Guderian by default. Sadly your logic was wrong still. You bet that he'd pick the town and not his buddy but it was reversed. ahahaha.

You overly defended your setting up the lynch which you refused to budge on. You kept emphasizing "IFFFFF EPM flipped scum" but the fact is that you trusted your partner's read (aka Nacho) of EPM and basically setup the lynching an Eastern + a town mislynch. sadly Guderian was modkilled but EPM was still lynched over you.

To reanswer Iam's question. Digging of the hole was protecting an illogical stance to take. He defended his setting up of a lynch.

[SharkFinn]

Exactly. He's not obvtown. Could be scum. Not saying he's likely to be, not saying I have a case on him or the evidence with which to build one. Just everyone's got him on their town lists. That's never good for town. If he is scum, he's already in position to coast his team to the win.

Ok so I reread and I didnt see DH "really chainsawing" but he did defend EPM. I kinda think DH was right (logically) in stopping that.

Ignore previous chainsaw comments.

[DemonHybrid]

I didn't really setup a lynch on Guderian; it was RVS and I was piecing together information. It happens.

How many people in the early game defended nacho or praised him for being town at the time? He was niversally considered town, so singling me out on that point alone isn't fair, no matter if you call it a "chainsaw" or just plain defending.

[DemonHybrid]

Sorry, on my droid, didn't finish my statement about guderian.

Sure, I connected EPM with Guderian, but you have to realize the context of that suspicion. How far through the game were we at that time?

[SharkFinn]

I didn't really setup a lynch on Guderian;

it was RVS

and I was piecing together information. It happens.

How many people in the early game defended nacho or praised him for being town at the time? He was niversally considered town, so singling me out on that point alone isn't fair, no matter if you call it a "chainsaw" or just plain defending.

My EPM vote was not serious at the time

. So, you're wrong about that.

My confirmation that if EPM is scum

, then you are IS serious and what I was talking about. So you're wrong.

I did not set up a chain of lynches, either. "

If EPM is scum, then you are" only sets up your lynch if...well, EPM is scum

. And you seem to be freaking out on the premise that I made that up. Which means you're soft defending EPM. Cool.

You can thank EPM for setting himself up as scum and then including you through a mind-fuck game. IF EPM is scum, then so are you. If he is not, I need to reread you, but you've contradicted something already, so I don't have high hopes for you, but we'll see.

I HAVE SAID THIS LIKE 5 TIMES. IF EPM IS SCUM, I BELIEVE GUDERIAN IS SCUM. IF EPM IS TOWN, I NEED TO REREAD GUDERIAN. 5 TIMES.[/size]

You said EPM WAS a RVS but you later made it serious. When it was serious, you defended your position. Again, when your buddy claims that someone is scum then you trust the read as well. If EPM flips, you set up a lynch. You gave yourself an out, but you still set up a lynch. EPM was a scumdriven wagon for D1 (Nacho is a good driver BEEP BEEP).

My point is still there. You set up a lynch. You admit you set up a lynch. Yes it isnt 100% set, but you laid it down, giving yourself an out if you were wrong.

[SharkFinn]

awww stupid tag didnt make the gigantic quote size you made.

[don_johnson]

hm. tough one.

carry on.

[DemonHybrid]

My point is still there. You set up a lynch. You admit you set up a lynch. Yes it isnt 100% set, but you laid it down, giving yourself an out if you were wrong.

I set up suspicion. It was too early for a lynch setup.

Even so, lets assume that I am Western. What I believed at the time was that if EPM was scum, Guderian most likely is and I would be in support of his lynch from RVS reasoning, which was pretty shoddy. I admit that; it was RVS and I was looking for information.

But are you saying that I was setting up lynches 100% based on EPM's flip? If I was Western scum, I wouldn't have known EPM's alignment, so I wasn't setting up a lynch; I was legitimately suspicious, but didn't want to go into definites. You can call it creating an out, but Shark, a lot of people were playing that game in the first few pages.

[DemonHybrid]

And yes, I agree that I set up suspicion, but it stemmed from legit suspicion on Guderian. A lot of people set up suspicion early game, it's a fallacy to call me out alone on that just because I'm left till MyLo and call it a special case.

[SharkFinn]

DemonHybrid: Fair argument, but as mentioned I believe you trusted your associate (Nacho) in his read (since he planned to set himself up as town leader (leading everyone to sheep to his will). Of course Empking broke the game open with 2 reads. Yes you voice suspicion but I still feel binding two players up like that is not good. It could lead to a mislynch in the future.

[SharkFinn]

o. And who else was doing it? I must have missed it.

[iamausername]

LET'S SEE WHAT HAPPENS IF I

VOTE: SharkFinn

[SharkFinn]

iamusername: Why me over DemonHybrid?

[DemonHybrid]

LET'S SEE WHAT HAPPENS IF I

VOTE: SharkFinn

Nothing until don votes. He's the other mason, remember?

[DemonHybrid]

o. And who else was doing it? I must have missed it.

Everyone who posted a scum list in the early game. Granted, I linked EPM and Guderian, but it stemmed from RVS. That's how RVS works sometimes.

My main point is that, assuming I am Western for a second, I couldn't have been truly setting up Guderian's mislynch if I didn't even know EPM's alignment (since he was Eastern). In fact, I knew no one's alignment. Sometimes, RVS plays out that way.

I don't really know what else to say about that.

[don_johnson]

^^ excellent.

iam: hows about sharkfinn?

[SharkFinn]

DH: fair point. Well. Gaaaaa. DH's posts are increasing in quality. Was I wrong? /me has to rethink this.

[iamausername]

LET'S SEE WHAT HAPPENS IF I

VOTE: SharkFinn

Nothing until don votes. He's the other mason, remember?

I knew that. I was hoping maybe you or Shark would forget and start gloating. Or even that you'd remember, but I'd still get something useful out of the reactions.

If don wasn't around, mind, I'd be about ready to hammer Shark at this point.

iam: hows about sharkfinn?

I think it's him. The Battle Mage stuff looks pretty damning to me.

[Haylen]

VOTE COUNT!

Sharkie: DemonHybrid, Iamusername
DemonHybrid: Sharkie

Not Voting: Iamusername, Don_Johnson

How many votes to lynch?

3/4

When is deadline?

Sunday 6th March, 9pm GMT time.

[SharkFinn]

What Battle Mage stuff?

[don_johnson]

vote: sharkfinn

[DemonHybrid]

*whew*

I was afraid I was going to lose the game for you guys ._.

You know how you say one stupid thing and then everything you say after that is just a train of stupid? Yeah..

I just hope it's not iam.

[don_johnson]

its probably iam. if its you, fess up. games over.