Mini 1113 - Brotherhood of the Wolf Mafia

[Lady Lambdadelta]

GreyICE (LYNCHED) - AlmasterGM, Spyrex, Fate, Lady Lambdadelta, GreyICE
UncertainKitten (LYNCHED) - AlmasterGM, Fate, Spyrex , Lady Lambdadelta

What don't you notice on these last 2 wagons?

Oh, I KNOW. YOU.

As a matter of fact, I'm fairly confident that you haven't placed a legitimate vote in the past 2 game days.

You clearly were planning for this situation ever since GreyICE was wagoned.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Here are our lynches:

Katsuki (LYNCHED)

-

Mina, StrangerCoug, AlmasterGM

,

GreyICE

,

CooLDoG,

Zang

, Untrod Tripod

Zang (LYNCHED)

-

StrangerCoug, CooLDoG, LynchMePls

, Untrod Tripod, Mariyta/LLD,

GreyICE

GreyICE (LYNCHED)

-

AlmasterGM, Spyrex, Fate

, Lady Lambdadelta,

GreyICE

UncertainKitten (LYNCHED)

-

AlmasterGM, Fate, Spyrex

, Lady Lambdadelta

Look at this. In your votes, you have hammered a townie, and bussed Zang.

Zang was obv scum. Would have been to obvious had you NOT voted on that wagon.

But you skillfully avoided the GreyICE wagon.

And then you lurked the entire day yesterday, so there was no way you could vote without being scrutinized.

Your hammer on Katsuki is bad.

Your vote on Zang was a required bus.

Your lack of vote on GreyICE was scummy.

Your lack of INPUT on the UK wagon is scummy.

[Untrod Tripod]

Look at this. In your votes, you have hammered a townie, and bussed Zang.

Zang was obv scum. Would have been to obvious had you NOT voted on that wagon.

But you skillfully avoided the GreyICE wagon.

I started the case on Zang on day 1. While I was the popular wagon. Before Zang was "obvscum". What you're claiming is that I (since the GF and RB have flipped, it's a pretty good assumption that the remaining scum is a goon) preemptively bussed the mafia roleblocker to save myself. Right.

And then you lurked the entire day yesterday, so there was no way you could vote without being scrutinized.

I'm just going to say this one more time, the UK wagon happened in about 12 hours, and the day lasted roughly 13. You cannot make an activity case here. It's complete bullshit.

Your hammer on Katsuki is bad.

The only pro-town thing Kats did was not flip scum. Kats was scummy as hell.

Your vote on Zang was a required bus.

I started that case.

Your lack of vote on GreyICE was scummy.

Ehhhhhhhhhh no. My play regarding GI (which I was very clear about) was more that I was confused as hell about his apparent bipolar disorder.

Your lack of INPUT on the UK wagon is scummy.

Ohhhhhhhhhh but UK had been one of my expressed town reads all game long. Are you arguing that because I didn't say "I still think UK isn't scummy!" and did not get on the wagon then I was therefore fine with the wagon?


_____________________________

In the end, this is really for AGM to decide. Obviously I'm not going to convince you to stop pushing for my lynch and you're not going to trick me into thinking you're town. You already know your alignment and I already know mine. This argument is ultimately fruitless and will just drag on forever until AGM picks one of us. However, by all means keep talking. The more you post, the more you're going to reveal your anti-town motivations. To my mind, even without the UK hammer, the fact that your go-to argument against me is about things I did not do rather than things I did do is pretty telling.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I find it interesting that you come out of the woodwork in this FINAL DAY, with TONS of info and attacks PREPARED.

It's just a stark difference from your passive... scratch that, NON-EXISTENT input yesterday.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm putting this all out for AGM to see how scummy you are.

In any case, the only thing my posts show are your anti-town motives.

And tell me again, why are you so eager on having us stop argue? AGM will have more information and reads to use in the <MOST IMPORTANT VOTE OF THE GAME>.

So I see no reason to end our discussion. It just helps me further show to AGM why you are scum. Only scum would want what you are suggesting. AGM, do you see this?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Vote Count 5.0 - As of Post 1854

Untrod Tripod (1) - Lady Lambdadelta
Lady Lambdadelta (1) - Untrod Tripod
AlmasterGM (0) -

Not Voting (1) - AlmasterGM

The Current deadline is March 12, 2011 at 1pm EST. The Countdown can be found

HERE

With 3 alive - 2 are required to lynch.

Activity Check - All good currently.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

:3

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Alamaster, do you have anything to say? Any questions for us you want answered?

[AlmasterGM]

No, I'm good, thanks. As a side note, I can't help but notice you have a perfect record on this site. I'd hate to be responsible for messing that up, whichever way it is.

I'm going to look things over a bit more. I should have a decision by Tuesday afternoon.

[AlmasterGM]

Gah, this game is getting to me. Here's the thing: UT's play is more blatantly scummy, but the more I look at it, the more I marvel at how Mariyta's play resembles EXACTLY how you should play this game if you are scum. You're stuck with idiot partners, so you need to bus, but they are also strong PRs, so you need to dance. And dance she does. Her votes weave magically around her buddies...always putting on the perfect amount of pressure to make the bus clear, but then pulling off and probing for another counter wagon. Looking at everything in retrospect, it says INTELLIGENT SCUM. UT, on the other hand, has votes all over the place. With such an idiot team and facing such heavy pressure , it's hard to believe UT wouldn't just go for the bus and the easy town cred. Lead a few wagons against GreyICE and Zang, become probtown, and then fall back on your generally "meh" posting style as an excuse for not getting NK'd ... it's the PERFECT strategy. But UT never did that. He's disorganized and all over the place. It's bad scum strategy. It's TOWN.

But then there's the SK thing.

The. SK. Thing.

And that's what keeps getting me.

Because there is just zero reason for town-UT to push the SK issue.

However, there is 1001 reasons for scum-UT to have it hovering in the back of his head.

And that might be the selling point.

[Untrod Tripod]

Looks like you're going to help LLD's record then.

AGM, why wouldn't a town player be at least a little worried about your alignment? You led the charge on UK yesterday partially because of this silly "EVERYONE WHO THINKS I MIGHT POSSIBLY MAYBE BE SK IS TEH SCUMZ" thing you have going on. Yeah, that UK wagon turned out well didn't it? She was the most pro-town player in this game. Maybe this whole "thinking you're the SK" thing is actually not actually a scumtell.

Here's my question: are you seriously basing your decision on who wins this game on the argument that I said "if you're town"? And you really think that's more scummy than LLD's UK hammer? You just got writing a long paragraph saying "man, UT's game makes no sense as scum and Mariyta's game makes perfect sense as scum". Does that not clue you in on anything? You're hearing hoofbeats and thinking zebras. They're horses dude. Scummy, scummy horses.

If you really think that me saying "if you're town" is scummier than LLD's overall play and her hammer on UK, then G effing G scum.

Go ahead and hammer me. All you lose is the game.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

AGM, according to UT he "led the Zang wagon push", which he is claiming as town points. (I'll quote that lone if you need it.)

While it is true that IF Mari were scum, she would have played the perfect scum game... Maybe. She would have had to BUS BOTH her partners, and then survive a 6:1 town:scum ratio. Of her own VOLITION. I don't care how bad ass you are, to bus both your teammates by that point is lunacy.

The true scum intent lies with UT (because he's obv scum from my PoV).

First off, he hammers Katsuki

BEFORE KAT CAN CLAIM THAT SHE GOT HER ACTION OFF

This seems like a scum quick hammer.

Secondly, his vote on Zang. I don't believe he STARTED the push. Rather, he saw a lot of people lining up Zang, and jumped in on it before it became too suspicious. This is the "easy town cred" you are looking for.

The next few days, UT decides his best move is not to be outward aggressive, but rather passive and lurk. On the GreyICE wagon, he posts a few comments, but doesn't help or hinder the GreyICE case. When Fate appears, UT all but DISSAPEARS, except to defend himself from me.

I will note NOW that I have seen the scum!UT for 3 days now, and no one listened to me :3

I digress, he lets the ICE wagon go without voting on it. Voting on it would give him some town cred, BUT it would also draw attention to him. His strategy at this point was to remain silent.

The next day dawns, I start with a vote on UT, he asks for a case. I promise a wall later, and he leaves.

Fate wagons UK. UT is forgotten.

And what does UT do? Nothing. He doesn't even post. Everyone forgets about him in favor of UK.

I will admit my hammer on UK was weird, but I wanted to give Fate he benefit of the doubt. He's got an amazing scumdar, and my UK reads have known to be blinded (See:Higurashi Mafia).

You could claim that my hammer was the scummier move that day, but truly, UT's lack of a vote was worse.

He knew that Spyrex asked to be shot. He knew Fate would not give up on UK lynch. So, in essence

If he kept his mouth SHUT, he would not die.

And he didn't. And here we are. He killed the more obv town Fate last night, and ten came into today with his plan about going after me, but also labeling you as potential SK, to keep his options open.

For the past 5 days, he has done nothing but scum moves with scum intent. I caught on to him Day 3. Don't let his operation LURK2VICTORY succeed.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Gah,

Mod, can you fix that one tag?

Done.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Mod Note - I will be reviewing the thread for vote changes but will not be posting Vote-Counts unless either

A. Votes change
B. A player requests it.

At this stage everyone has a good handle on the situation IMO and I don't think posting essentially duplicate material just to post is very useful.

The deadline for Day 5 can be found in the opening post for anyone wanting that information.

[Untrod Tripod]

First off, he hammers Katsuki BEFORE KAT CAN CLAIM THAT SHE GOT HER ACTION OFF This seems like a scum quick hammer.

We talked about this on Day 3 or 4, either way this isn't the first time. I didn't think Kats was town, why would I want her to get a hypothetical action off?

Secondly, his vote on Zang. I don't believe he STARTED the push. Rather, he saw a lot of people lining up Zang, and jumped in on it before it became too suspicious. This is the "easy town cred" you are looking for.

I started the case on Zang on day 1. No one was voting for him at the time and no one had yet. We've gone over this in days previous, too.

The next few days, UT decides his best move is not to be outward aggressive, but rather passive and lurk. On the GreyICE wagon, he posts a few comments, but doesn't help or hinder the GreyICE case. When Fate appears, UT all but DISSAPEARS, except to defend himself from me.

Except for that whole pushing cases on SpyreX and Mina, but whatever you want to tell yourself.

I will note NOW that I have seen the scum!UT for 3 days now, and no one listened to me :3

Your slot has been tunneling me since the beginning of day 1. Subtle distinction there.

I digress, he lets the ICE wagon go without voting on it. Voting on it would give him some town cred, BUT it would also draw attention to him. His strategy at this point was to remain silent.

I wasn't silent on that point. I was actually pretty vocal about the fact that I couldn't decide if GI was scum or not because he was acting like such a raving lunatic.

And what does UT do? Nothing. He doesn't even post. Everyone forgets about him in favor of UK.

You are trying to make an activity case based on the fact that I went about 13 hours without posting.

You could claim that my hammer was the scummier move that day, but truly, UT's lack of a vote was worse.

Yes, hammering a 12-hour wagon on one of your town reads leading to LyLo is more town than not being on that wagon.

____________________________________________________________

You have gone from just posting illogical cases to actually attempting revisionist history. Your true colors are showing, LLD

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Revisionist history? I'm sorry if I have a perspective bias. But to be fair, you have the same bias, in reverse.

I will not that it's not "tunneling" on you when a) You're scum and b) Mari and I have had other suspects.

:3 How about instead of defending yourself against my posts, you go find actual scum moves I or Mari have made this game, hmm?

[Untrod Tripod]

In the order they were received:

tl;dr version: I'm not going to argue with you because I don't have a real answer to your points. I'll just keep my mouth shut and hope AGM picks me! It works last round when Fate ignored me, why not now?

I find it interesting that you come out of the woodwork in this FINAL DAY, with TONS of info and attacks PREPARED.

How about instead of defending yourself against my posts

Pick one:
I'm ignoring your points
I'm attacking you
I'm only defending myself

You've said I'm doing all three.

how about you go find actual scum moves I or Mari have made this game, hmm?

Frankly, I don't really need to go to the trouble (again). Beyond the fact that (by your own admission, I might add) I HAVE done this, if you read AGM's last post, he already realizes that your body of work is scummy. Are you asking me to convince YOU of that? You already know you're scum.

My case: your hammer was scum-fucking-tastic. You said UK was a strong town read. You hammered her. Before the flip you said you had UK as a strong town read. No town player who isn't totally brain-dead hammers a scum read leading to a LyLo situation. In defense of your hammer, you're blaming Fate for being wrong because "oh, Fate has such a good scumdar I just went against my own read". YOU'RE BLAMING FATE FOR YOUR HAMMER. You're basically arguing that you're easily-mislead and bad at mafia. You may as well have used this guy:


Remember what I said about how keeping this argument going will only hurt your case? Keep contradicting yourself.

Hell, I'm not even accusing you of completely ignoring my point about your bulllllllllllshit "activity" case on me. You are. But I hadn't mentioned it yet. I'm saying it again: how can you possibly make a lurking case when the window in which I didn't post was about 12 hours long? This isn't a marathon game. Four days without posting, yes that could be lurking. Twelve hours? No effing way.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Why do I have to choose? You've done all 3.

You ignored points you can't defend against.
You are prepared for today with minimal points against me, and lots of defenses for your slips.
And you have clearly defended yourself against points that I brought up that you have prepared for.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Prod Check - All players are still within acceptable activity.

Carry on, then ...

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Waiting for AGM to come hammer scum!UT :3

[AlmasterGM]

Decision today.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Decision today.

Just wondering; Is having the LYLO hammer as shitty as I think it is? It seems like a lot of pressure >.>

[AlmasterGM]

Alright, I've thought about it, and there's evidence on both sides. UT was a scummy motherfucker. Mariyta played what could be exemplified as a perfect scumgame. Ultimately, though, it's just really hard to vote for LL. I don't think her behavior at the end of yesterday was incredibly scummy, given that she prefaced her UK hammer with, "this doesn't matter because we're lynching scum tomorrow anyway" … which was the EXACT same logic I was operating under. I also find UT's lurking at the end of that wagon really, really bad. It's also really hard to justify voting LL over UT when UT has played a pretty "meh" game from the get-go. Lastly, though, there's one singer thing I just CANNOT get over:

UT saying that I could be the SK.

UT says it's stupid to bring it down to this, but it actually matters a LOT. If you're town and I'm SK, you've lost anyway because no matter who dies, you're getting shot the night afterwards. So you don't care what happens. However, if you're scum, getting me lynched over the townie is the difference between a win and a loss. If you lynch me, you NK the last townie for victory. Lynch the townie… and your shot slams into my bulletproof, we no-lynch the next day, and then you get killed that night. You've had this thought hovering in the back of your head for AGES, ever since GreyICE launched his SK theory two days. You've got that smidgen of incentive, however small, to leave the option over for my lynching to ensure the victory.

The person who does that isn't LL. It's UT.

Vote: Untrod Tripod

If I'm wrong, please don't kill me.

[Fate]

BRAINSS

[Lady Lambdadelta]

:3

<3

[Lady Lambdadelta]

BRAINSS

SHIT IT'S A ZOMBIE.

FUCK.

ROLL THE D20.