1119: The Might of Mordor: Game Over

[Andrius]

Day Three, Lynch-Count Three

SpyreX (2): singersigner, gandalf5166
Sevei (2): Fate, SpyreX
singersigner (1): MasterSpy
Fate (1): VasudeVa

Not Voting (2): Sevei, AlmasterGM

Day Three, Imbue-Count Three

VasudeVa (2): VasudeVa, singersigner

Not Voting (6): Fate, gandalf5166, AlmasterGM, SpyreX, Sevei, MasterSpy

Notices

With 8 alive it takes 5 to Lynch and/or Imbue.
Deadline is set at Saturday, March 5th, at 4:00pm PST.

[Sevei]

Actually the more I've argued with you the less certain I've become about my SpyreX read because it actually makes more sense that he is telling the truth than being cheeky scum. I want him to talk about this "unblockable" shot before I say more. Other than that, no, I don't assume he would be truthful about his abilities as scum; that's why I was calling him cheeky--because if he is scum he is being pretty ballsy to talk about Gandalf (the character) being in the game.

And yes, I'm doing some speculating, but I'm drawing on what people are doing and saying and trying to put the pieces together. IF ANYTHING speculating is getting people to talk more and FINALLY this day has moved passed the "I KNO U R BUT WHAT AM I" crap that dominated the first part of it. As to your second point, I remember Gandalf almost exclusively using his staff, and the wizard's staff is almost synonymous with his power in most stories; I would guess if the Gandalf character truly is in the game and submits a kill then his kill flavor would be related to magic, not steel.

[SpyreX]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p2812257

What are you going on about Gan?

[singersigner]

Oh hey, scum said something about me.

For the record, I never claimed to respond to your "mini case" on me. I said I forgot about it. Difference.
I'm working on a response as we speak.

Also, MasterSpy, isn't Sauron, like, the ruler of Mordor or something?
Also, VV is TOWN.
What we need to do is imbue him and guarantee three awesome town to play tomorrow and lynch the last scum (whichever is left of Spyrex and MasterSpy, of course).
ALSO, IF SEVEI IS SCUM THEN SHE HAS THE ABILITY TO TALK TO ANY TOWN PLAYER THAT GETS THE RING. FATE YOU'RE MAKING ME WANT TO TAKE DRUGS WUT IS THIS SHIT.

[Fate]

Seveis in a corner.

Give her death

[gandalf5166]

SS

DID YOU ACTUALLY READ MY LAST POST?

OR ARE YOU JUST BEING FUCKING STUBBORN ABOUT VV?

HES CLEARLY FLAILING SCUM

[gandalf5166]

Actually the more I've argued with you the less certain I've become about my SpyreX read because it actually makes more sense that he is telling the truth than being cheeky scum. I want him to talk about this "unblockable" shot before I say more. Other than that, no, I don't assume he would be truthful about his abilities as scum; that's why I was calling him cheeky--because if he is scum he is being pretty ballsy to talk about Gandalf (the character) being in the game.

And yes, I'm doing some speculating, but I'm drawing on what people are doing and saying and trying to put the pieces together. IF ANYTHING speculating is getting people to talk more and FINALLY this day has moved passed the "I KNO U R BUT WHAT AM I" crap that dominated the first part of it. As to your second point, I remember Gandalf almost exclusively using his staff, and the wizard's staff is almost synonymous with his power in most stories; I would guess if the Gandalf character truly is in the game and submits a kill then his kill flavor would be related to magic, not steel.

No, in the battles Gandalf almost exclusively uses his sword. And if he doesn't he's BEATING people with his staff, not casting spells with it.

[Fate]

VV is scum..

Let's lynch his buddy first so I can live longer

[SpyreX]

Gandalf is NOT in this game.

This is not a bastard setup.

Ignoring what the mod SAID WITH HIS WORDS is fffff

Stop FEEDING THAT MADNESS and perhaps explain what you were going on about with I am confirmed to ME like that's been something I've said anything aboutt mr dalf

[MasterSpy]

Seveis in a corner.

Give her death

Have you decided what your opinion on Imbueing is if VV isn’t going to pledge loyalty to your plan. We probably need to get the Imbue hammered away before we hang someone (and if that someone could be Singer it would be great!).

--

YOU REALIZE SHE CAN ONLY BE SCUM IF VV IS TOO, RIGHT? SO WE LYNCH VV AND GIVE THE RING TO CONFIRMED TOWN

IF SEVEI STARTS TALKING TO US SHES TOWN

So the possibility she’s a scum neighborizor using the Ring as a cover story hasn’t occurred to you at all?

--

And yes, I'm doing some speculating, but I'm drawing on what people are doing and saying and trying to put the pieces together. IF ANYTHING speculating is getting people to talk more and FINALLY this day has moved passed the "I KNO U R BUT WHAT AM I" crap that dominated the first part of it. As to your second point, I remember Gandalf almost exclusively using his staff, and the wizard's staff is almost synonymous with his power in most stories; I would guess if the Gandalf character truly is in the game and submits a kill then his kill flavor would be related to magic, not steel.

Ok, I get it. Passing speculation that may or may not be close to reality is excusable as long as you feel it moves conversation in the right direction.

Once again I’m not really interested in your speculation as it clearly isn’t evidence by any stretch.

--

@Singer

– Once again I see now that I respond to your little ‘case’ you have nothing to say about it and just let things float away hoping they will be forgotten.

Oh hey, scum said something about me.

For the record, I never claimed to respond to your "mini case" on me. I said I forgot about it. Difference.
I'm working on a response as we speak.

Rich. Singer you are either just bad scum or one of the ‘elite’ along with players like Furc and Chesskid.

You raged against me not responding immediately to your ‘case’. You outright lied about what I said and tried to infer I was scum because “Discussion is Pro-Town” for not responding immediately.

Yet you let a case go for TWO FUCKING DAYS and are acting like it’s no big deal. You ‘forgot’ it. Sure.

Also, MasterSpy, isn't Sauron, like, the ruler of Mordor or something?

You mean Sauron who is disembodied and makes no physical appearance in the Trilogy directly? Who certainly doesn’t appear in the form of Annatan or whatever you claimed. Just want to be clear for those who are up in arms about Nazgul versus Non-Nazgul claims.

ALSO, IF SEVEI IS SCUM THEN SHE HAS THE ABILITY TO TALK TO ANY TOWN PLAYER THAT GETS THE RING. FATE YOU'RE MAKING ME WANT TO TAKE DRUGS WUT IS THIS SHIT.

Are you sure you haven’t already been hitting the drugs hard? Because a Neighborizor isn’t that big a stretch if you have any clue what Mafia games are about.

[VasudeVa]

Not voting Sevei. She's the FUCKING One Ring morons. I do not see any reason why she'll be scum. Plus her early attack on Plum is Town gold.

I'll only lynch one of the Two Spys. That's it.

[singersigner]

^good posting.

[Fate]

I don't give a flying about flavor.
Every post VV makes WITHOUT acknowledging that he's the mason bitch this game is one less chance hell get imbued by me today.

[gandalf5166]

I actually like VV's posts lately. I love it when scum bus.

For those who are all skeptical about Sevei: How do any of the surviving town from last game make sense as a neighborizer? And WTF happened to "SEVEI IS TOWN LOLOLOLOLOL" from D1?

[Fate]

He was town whenn he helped kill Plumscum.

He seems unwilling to bus VV, thus is now scum.

[gandalf5166]

Gandalf is NOT in this game.

This is not a bastard setup.

Ignoring what the mod SAID WITH HIS WORDS is fffff

Stop FEEDING THAT MADNESS and perhaps explain what you were going on about with I am confirmed to ME like that's been something I've said anything aboutt mr dalf

I DONT GET WHAT YOURE SAYING

PRETEND IM STUPID

I ALREADY EXPLAINED HOW IM CONFIRMED

UNLESS YOU SERIOUSLY THINK ME AND VV ARE SCUMBUDDIES THAT CAME UP WITH SOME CRAZY FUCKING GAMBIT

[gandalf5166]

OH

And that there are zip and nada protective roles.

[Fate]

HE'S TALKINNG ABOJUT GANDALF THE CHARACTER PAY ATTENTION DAMNT

[gandalf5166]

NOT WITH THE LAST SENTENCE

[SpyreX]

Yes. The last sentence is in relation to:

Also SpyreX, I AM nearly confirmed for two reasons: One, I knew that VV had not lost his bulletproof. Two, I knew that there was a blocker because of my superpower. Both of these were announced a LONG time ago, and the ONLY way I could be scum is if BOTH me and VV are scum, and we came up with CRAZY GAMBIT OF GREATNESS THAT MAGICALLY KNEW THAT THERE WERE NO PROTECTIVE ROLES IN THE GAME.

What does that have to do with anything?

Why is that in reference to me?

[MasterSpy]

So this is how we are going to play it ... just listing who to lynch and not responding to posting?

Hey Singer what happened to that response you were working on again?

Who I will lynch today? -

SingerSinger, VV, Sevei or Spyrex.

Imbue: AGM

until a decision is made otherwise.

[gandalf5166]

Yes. The last sentence is in relation to:

Also SpyreX, I AM nearly confirmed for two reasons: One, I knew that VV had not lost his bulletproof. Two, I knew that there was a blocker because of my superpower. Both of these were announced a LONG time ago, and the ONLY way I could be scum is if BOTH me and VV are scum, and we came up with CRAZY GAMBIT OF GREATNESS THAT MAGICALLY KNEW THAT THERE WERE NO PROTECTIVE ROLES IN THE GAME.

What does that have to do with anything?

Why is that in reference to me?

I seem to remember you saying at some point something to the effect of "Why are we all running around acting like Gandalf is confirmed?"

[Sevei]

First

, Fate, please stop calling me a “he.”

Second:

It doesn't really matter if you don’t

care

about flavor, it won't change anything. The effing One Ring is basically the storage bin for all of Sauron’s malice, cruelty, and will, so explain to me how it would ever be buddies with the “heroes”? It was a traitor in the last game but only until it could get to Sauron. The flavor is and has been 100% accurate in these games. The person whose alignment is not confirmed in the neighbor situation with me is the ringbearer’s. The ring never was and never will be or could be on the same side as the Heroes because it is PURE EVIL. And the town in this game are also beings of pure evil.

Third:

You don’t really think I will flip scum. Why? Because you are talking about needing more night protection then just tonight. If you thought I was scum with VV, you wouldn’t need more than one night’s protection because you would be thinking you could lynch one scum today, get protected by Gandalf tonight, and then even if he died tonight, you could lynch the other scum tomorrow.

Instead you want VV alive to protect Gandalf tonight so you can be alive on N4, too. WHY would there be a N4 if you really thought I was going to flip scum today and that VV would flip scum tomorrow?

Fourth:

Are you sure you haven’t already been hitting the drugs hard? Because a Neighborizor isn’t that big a stretch if you have any clue what Mafia games are about.

Neither is scum-mason, so do you have anything more then speculation about role mechanics that would support your hypothesis? (There is more about this in my ISO 18/Post 1076). (Calm down, Fate, this is rhetorical.)

(More coming, just breaking up a big wall.)

[gandalf5166]

Oh, that's right. Fate, even if she WAS a scum neighborizer, why would she show up as the PRECIOUS? AKA She's mod-confirmed as the ring. Deal with it.

[Sevei]

Finally:

My read on you, MS, isn’t based on role speculation, it’s based on things you've been doing since D1, which is when I first started talking about you:

It is notable that when MasterSpy replaced in, Mina made a case on Singer (who MoI has mentioned briefly since then, but is not focusing on) and MoI made a case on Mari. Up until this point neither Singer nor Mari had been truly scrutinized (aside from Quadz’s case on Mari which was at a standstill), and now Mari/Hohum is a likely lynch candidate.

Also, when MS entered the game and these cases were made, what happened? Attention was taken away from Plum

, and she has since relaxed and no longer seems quite as driven by the nervous energy that informed her early play.

It’s a bit of a conundrum that MS is in fact a hydra; dealing with both heads (and one that apparently “waffles” a lot) allows for a certain amount of grace for inconsistency that isn’t afforded to the rest of us. MS scum could be getting away with target fishing and fence-sitting solely because of this, which I don’t like—especially

since MoI has pointed out how often Mina is waffling in their QT. I often find drawing attention to something like that is a tell of sorts; it’s something he’s worried about, so he mentions it to sort of diffuse suspicions of it

. Also of note:

Mina’s first post was very sympathetic to Plum; MoI’s posts considerably less so.

I also pointed out MoI-head’s two comments that HoHum or Plum needed to be lynched, but that his entire case on her was this:

Her response to Edge here is much more along the line of ‘Ooops, tehehehe’. Damning? No. But inconsistent enough that I think it scummy.

I said it then, and I will say it now: HE DIDN’T THINK THE CASE ON PLUM WAS DAMNING BUT HE HAD HER IN HIS TOP TWO READS. Any time he talked about a lynch, it was of both Hohum or Plum. One town, one scum. I also said this:

MS and Plum make sense as partners to me; Plum’s relief at being removed from the spotlight is apparent.

MS is keeping a safe distance from Plum, not totally clearing her but not focusing on her, either.

I can also see the Hohum/Plum pairing, but Mari’s early interactions with Plum didn’t strike me that way; I need to do some more rereading for that.

Either way, I can only fit two of these three into a scum equation, and Plum fits in both pairings. I’ve got an “either/or” read on MS and Hohum; still trying to work it out.

And here we are on D3 and Hohum was town, eliminating my "either/or" read.

I still think the hydra is getting away with literal murders here because they are playing a sort of good cop/bad cop type game, in which Mina waffles and plays (as Fate called her) the "girly girl" who wouldn't vote and MoI playing the firm and stern voice of authority. If one makes a mistake, the other glosses it over.

LIKE HERE:

I have to agree with this. Seriously, you had a guilty AND hohum was acting suspicious as fuck and you didn't vote for him right out of the gate? I mean, I know you like to waffle, but this is kinda beyond that.

Correction – Mina is the Queen of Waffle Hut. As soon as I got on I rectified that issue. I personally think Mina needs a Mafiascum Life Coach who can teach her a little self-confidence.

Also, MasterSpy and SpyreX's role sound a bit mutually exclusive. Two roles that hunt for people in an already all-PR game? That's pretty strong. The fact that this "Gandalf" figure hasn't been outed already makes me extra skeptical of his existence.

Agreed. Along those lines what are your thoughts on the Gandalf / VV dichotomy and the Mason / Neighborizor / your ability dynamic?

Nice deflections going on here. AGM says: you didn't vote for him with a guilty? MoI puts it on Mina; what bothers me is not the fact that Mina didn't vote right away; as a "swordsmith," their "guilty" isn't as rock solid as a cop's, and furthermore, Hohum claimed right away, so it made sense that he would have a sword. What BOTHERS me is the extra commenting about the self-confidence. It's back to that nervous energy and the drawing too much attention to something when a simple statement would do.

In point two, AGM says "these roles are a bit mutually exclusive." MoI says: Agreed, but what about this other situation? SAYS THE GREAT AND POWERFUL OZ....PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN.

AND THEN THERE IS THIS:

Why has SpyreX suddenly been tacked onto your lynch list? The only things you've even said about him during this game are:

Quadz, Spyrex and Katy earn my strongest Town reads so far. Everyone not mentioned in this catch-up falls solely in Sort-Town / Null for me.

SpyreX was early on Plum and had felt very townish

SpyreX confuses me. Maybe I'm too prone to trusting players who are early on scum wagons, but I had a town read on him for most of the game. Aside from his Plum push, his early request not to have the ring and overall activity felt townish. (There was a moment in which I wondered if he was Mariyta's buddy when he voted her after Mariyta's wagon seemed like a rising star, but my doubts evaporated after Plum's flip.) Magna actually trusted him more than Fate, because he claimed that Fate is always a mega-busser. Hell, I even predicted to Magna last night that SpyreX might be the NK because of all the WIFOM over whom VV would protect.

So you are claiming a Normal power that is useless since Gandalf can’t be in the fucking game (aka completely useless) but a Super-Power that is awesome. That makes absolutely no sense in context of your ‘I don’t want the Ring’ Day 1 play.

This feels like what happened with Plum, when you kept saying that either she or Hohum needed to be lynched, but you really never had a case on her at all. Your only comment on SpyreX so far is his weird claim, which makes far less sense than any other claim so far, and you aren't pressing him about it at all, instead focusing on Singer whose claim makes sense, and mine, which is unquestionably flavor proof if you know anything at all about the plot of LotR.

Combine the very smooth way the heads are playing off of one another, the inconsistencies with Plum and now SpyreX, the subtle liar's tells peppered throughout the posts, a dubious claim, and the fact that MoI tried every way he could to twist everything I've said today into something scummy, I have a very clear scum read on him.

Vote: MasterSpy