Mini 1113 - Brotherhood of the Wolf Mafia

[GreyICE]

Lemme paraphrase DGB: It takes 30 seconds to explain your logic. It takes forever to come up with a town line of logic when you had none.

[SpyreX]

It's already been explained.

Very, very clearly in fact.

There is no secret mystery.

[GreyICE]

Awesome. Well that answer was quick and thorough! I commend, you, let me unvote.

Dear god you set off my sarcasm mode. Everything you post is like "oh you don't comprehend my plans and shit." Well, I admit to total non-comprehension. I'm a bloody moron. Enlighten me how this works, again.

[SpyreX]

Here's the deal.

You're flailing. Not a little bit.

If someone else really needs the diagram explaining what the difference is from that post till now they'll get it. Instead, it is far more beneficial for me to watch you bang against this wall because sure as sure can be it acts as rope-lube.

[GreyICE]

Nice.

Well, I feel entirely comfortable with where my vote is at.

[SpyreX]

So, you're saying for sure you can't puzzle out the difference.

You managed to user powers of deduction that had nothing to do with Zang and on the flip side can't see what changed?

Yes, let us allow the votes to decide.

[GreyICE]

Yup. There the line of logic was fairly straightforward, although I held onto a possibility I might have been wrong, which is why I needed the reaction. But the only thing it made sense for him to be targeting SC with was some sort of killing power, and once I made that jump it's exactly like you said from reading the posts - there's absolutely no way AGM is town.

Any line of logic that has someone who NEEDS to lynch town today doing what AGM is doing involves industrial grade WIFOM. If you at least thought there was a good chance AGM was town, I could buy it. But this line of logic doesn't work at all for me.

Occam's Razor:
1) You hit the day, realized AKR's posts were abysmal (from the first post calling Reck/Dram "gay" on forward, they were horrible).
2) You decided to build a case against me for the sins of AKR.
3) AGM managed to get the wagon to L-2 with sheer force of... something. Mariyta has hated me pretty much since the curse word day 1, UT... man, no offense, but there's a reason you're the designated mislynch of this town.
4) Ooh, opportunity!

Question in my mind now is whose the buddy. Ghostwriter makes the most sense - he could quickhammer, then get lynched for it tomorrow. AGM commutes tonight, and he can't NK you and win, so that leaves the town at 1:1:1. Then it's down to you to prove that AGM is scum, while he tries to convince the last townie that you're scum and he's the town vig/doctor.

If I find a line of logic that you can use to make AGM scum and not the serial killer, I think I have the plan pretty much locked up here.

[SpyreX]

If you at least thought there was a good chance AGM was town, I could buy it

See, this is why you're flailing.

Because, again, like I said things have changed.

And since you've went ahead and supplied the rope:

Your change in role DOES change things for the better and definitively means you're not getting lynched today sans shenanigans.

Because the modifications a.) make sense to lie about and b.) fit much better now with everything else. It makes sense.

AGM IF YOU GET ANOTHER SHOT THERE IS A MYSTERY IN THE VC. I KNOW YOU CAN FIND IT.

I've got 15 whole posts. So, you just didn't pay attention to a full fifth where I very, very directly say I went 180 degrees on AGM the moment he altered his claim. And even explained why.

So, dissecting the "logic" of the first post is absolutely simply an attempt, and a poor one at that, to shift away from the inevitable.

Or, to put it far more succinctly:

CHOO CHOO SUMMON LOS ROPOS

[GreyICE]

Other buddy possibility is Kitten, which would lend credence to my "one on, one off theory," which is pretty much how this wagon should be running. I think you trust Kitten enough to carry this game if she has to bus you, and the dance the two of you are doing feels a little contrived. Still, GW lurked epically through the entire drama on day 2. Like, "hand out awards for this" level of lurk.

PEDIT: @SpyreX: That was supposed to be a 180? Oh come on. You know there's a serial killer variant where they can commute every other night to be immune to investigations and NKs, at the cost of their kill. Wonder how fast you'll remember that when you need AGM lynched. Or maybe he just eats the NK when he's forced to kill rather than commute.

[SpyreX]

You've got the termosity to shout Occam's Razor and then fluff that rubbish out?

Woooo nelly.

[GreyICE]

Yep. I think it's more likely that AGM claimed 'odd night' (or every other night, I suppose) doctor with his commuter role than he's town, with the posts he's made and the reaction he's had. Doctor is such an amazingly fake-able roleclaim. I notice you haven't called for a cop to come forward, which should be pretty basic if we have a doctor in the house tonight.

Of course that opens the possibility of why a NK wasn't submitted on the doc/vig tonight, doesn't it? Unless you have the same suspicions I have, and have no real desire to submit an NK that's just going to bounce.

[SpyreX]

What in the name of everything holy?

On one hand you're espousing the SK that jumps through mystical hoops to not get a kill AND THEN because I say his doctor claim I believe as a half and half (hint: that's not the reason why I shifted) means there HAS to be a cop?

I sure don't remember any of that "There has to be a cop" business when the MILLER WAS ALIVE. When, you know, it would have actually made a lick of sense even if it was still a bad, bad idea.

(and there was a kill on a confirmed vig good lord almighty)

I need some of that magic juice.

[GreyICE]

Wow, you like to make everything much much more complex than it is.

1) No mystical hoops. Two possibilities. One, AGM said exactly what happened in the thread. He got poisoned by Katsuki. Two, Zang RBed him because he didn't want the SC shot, and AGM chose not to commute night 2. Either make sense to me, and frankly I don't give a shit which happed. AGM said he got RBed/JKed, there was no kill. 1+1 = 2

2) I don't remember anyone claiming doctor before now. As a roleclaimed doctor/vig, AGM should be pretty much dead tonight, and he can protect a Cop before he goes. This creates, for tomorrow, a minimum of two confirmed townies which is fairly hax (or one confirmed town, one confirmed scum). Right?

Talk about flailing - Mystical hoops for someone to not submit a kill night one when they claimed JK in the thread (and you think they're town, no less)?

Talk about flailing - If a cop does exist, that pretty much raises the roof on the power level, so you're laying the groundwork for non-confirmed sanity? Really convenient if he gets a guilty you don't like, right? No sanity test.

Yep. This is pretty much confirms it to me. Scum.

[SpyreX]

Ok.

1) No mystical hoops. Two possibilities. One, AGM said exactly what happened in the thread. He got poisoned by Katsuki. Two, Zang RBed him because he didn't want the SC shot, and AGM chose not to commute night 2. Either make sense to me, and frankly I don't give a shit which happed. AGM said he got RBed/JKed, there was no kill. 1+1 = 2

Apples aren't B52 bombers good lord.

There is a huge and fundamental difference between "AGM is town and telling the truth" and "AGM IS SOME KINDA WILD WACKY HYPER SK WHO GAVE UP ALL HIS SKING INS THIS BIZ"

2) I don't remember anyone claiming doctor before now. As a roleclaimed doctor/vig, AGM should be pretty much dead tonight, and he can protect a Cop before he goes. This creates, for tomorrow, a minimum of two confirmed townies which is fairly hax (or one confirmed town, one confirmed scum). Right?

Yes, he's dead tonight. WHICH WOULD GUARANTEE THIS MYSTICAL COP (WHICH IS EVEN MORE TECH CONSIDERING THE SPLIT SETUP THUS FAR GOOD LORD) IS DEAD. VERSUS HAVING THE SCUM HAVE TO TAKE A GUESS TO WHERE HE IS.

Additionally, AND THIS REALLY SHOULDN'T BE NECESSARY, the existence of a split roleblocker makes the existence of any number of roles that can manipulate said results higher which makes this whole cop claim yee-haw a bulls-eye for SCREW WITH MA RESULTS PLEASE.

GOD IN HEAVEN

Talk about flailing - If a cop does exist, that pretty much raises the roof on the power level, so you're laying the groundwork for non-confirmed sanity? Really convenient if he gets a guilty you don't like, right? No sanity test.

Yea that's me "laying groundwork"

LynchMePls - Henri Sardis, Head of the Brotherhood of the Wolf [Town Miller] tomahawked Night 2.

OR OHH SNAP THERE IS A MILLER ALREADY FLIPPED

GOOD LORD

[GreyICE]

Uh huh. Hey SpyreX, the hypothetical cop has had 2 nights to investigate any combination of CooLDoG, LMP, and Zang to get results that would confirm their sanity. And frankly, any one of them was quite worth investigating. Kinda nice if they don't come forward until tomorrow, right? Everyone knows what to do with non-confirmable information brought forth when you need one mislynch to lose (though I suppose our friendly neighborhood SK makes that a mislynch and a miskill).

AGM got a slightly nonstandard SK build (not even a very non-standard one). He got RBed/JKed night one. He claimed this himself.

This doesn't seem to need mystical hoodoo or wild wacky SK fun. Just a little bit of bad luck for the scum.

[SpyreX]

Split roles.
Like every other damn one.
Good lord its not rocket science.

I've also played in one or two games and I'm pretty sure I've never seen this "slightly nonstandard SK build" that you're espousing.

[Mariyta]

This game makes my head hurt. I really don't see AGM as an SK. And where is GW? He said he was going to post, then disappeared.

I'll try to get a re-read in today, but I need to get the last 15 pages of my book edited by the end of Sunday, so we'll see.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Vote Count 3.2 - As of Post 1417

Untrod Tripod (1) - UncertianKitten
Mariyta (0) -
AlmasterGM (0) -
Spyrex (1) - GreyICE
GreyICE (3) - AlmasterGM, Mariyta, Spyrex
UncertainKitten (0) -
Mina (0) -
GhostWriter (0) -

Not Voting (3) -Untrod Tripod, Mina, GhostWriter

The Current deadline in Februrary. The Countdown can be found

HERE

With 8 alive - 5 are required to lynch and 3 are required to lynch at deadline.

Activity Check - All good currently. First activity test will be Monday morning.

I have an extra busy Weekend planned so the next offical vote-count most likely be Monday. I will be following along via Cell and will do what I can from there in case of emergency.

[UncertainKitten]

So, GI, you're accusing a lot of people at this point.

Can you narrow it down to two or three suspects with a nice summary of each?

[AlmasterGM]

I can't decide whether this whole tirade is last minute distancing or really, really bad flailing.

[Mariyta]

A little bit of both, likely.

[GreyICE]

So, GI, you're accusing a lot of people at this point.

Can you narrow it down to two or three suspects with a nice summary of each?

Accusing a lot of people? Not really. Looks like we were fairly close to the mark all along.

StrangerCoug/SpyreX - #1. Makes perfect sense. Was either hoping his buddy quickhammered, or trying to sell the town on hammering me before we had any time to plan. Leaves us in 3:2:1 (or 4:2, if you believe AGM). He believes AGM is definitely not town, then gets a song and dance about this doctor ability and is like "okay, that makes perfect sense, lets go quicklynch!"

I think his massive misrepresentations of me earlier summarize that. "Mystical magical hoops that show how the serial killer didn't kill anyone night 1!" when he claims to be jailblocked? It's nice rhetoric, but he hasn't even been able to put together a line of logic for it. The case against our friend StrangerCoug from Day 1/2 doesn't really need any more summary.

Partner - Either GhostWriter, or Kitten. I'm leaning towards Ghostwriter, just because of how fucking impossible it is to find a GhostWriter post when you need one. Whenever you're like "wait... he's still in the game?!?" that sets off alarm bells in my head. Kitten only because of the ridiculous dance you've played with SpyreX, and your waffling to LMP yesterday over Zang... could be you were going to bus, then saw an out, where I'm sitting. My gut still says town, but guts can only be trusted so far. Also, fwiw, Kitten dragged SpyreX into the game, and it has to suck balls when your partner is as worthless as StrangerCoug (and your other partner was Zang... dear lord).

[UncertainKitten]

I dragged him in cause I was sick of this game and saw a way to spice it up. I *do* try to have fun you know.

Well, your gut is right on me, but, I have an increasing suspicion that you don't need gut to know I'm town. Your role PM probably lists that I'm not your buddy ^-^.

But, hey, I'll give you this. SpyreX is a plausible buddy to you, for the sins of SC. And you do have a couple points, particularly the fact Spy was willing to drop AGM on the doctor thing and I'm like "what?" over here about that still.

[UncertainKitten]

EBWOP: Might as well money where my mouth is for now.

Sorry Spy.

Unvote, Vote SpyreX

SC really just made things nigh impossible for you. Granted, I still think we should lynch GI today, but I don't wanna open things up to a scum quickhammer.

That said, you made a good entry and I thank you for joining us for even a little bit. Made me feel so much better about this game.

[Untrod Tripod]

I am going to go ahead and post everything SC had to say about Zang, for reference (and posterity)
___________________________________________________________________________

The first quote encompasses SC's first two posts about/to Zang

-AKnottedRope, again, what do you think about havingfitz? And although Zang pestering everyone to give reasons for voting him is annoying, can you explain more of why Zang shot to the top of your suspect list?

So I'm supposed to let people vote for me for no reason at all?

Why are you jumping in here? Annoying ≠ scummy, and the question was directed at AKnottedRope.

I was not jumping in, I did not answer or comment on the question directed at AKR. Why are you jumping in here? My question was directed at Mina.

This is a straight-up lie. Mina claimed, in the question to AKnottedRope, that you bugging the people on your wagon for vote reasons is annoying and you chime in by asking if people are supposed to just pile on you for the hell of it. Therefore, you jumped in.

UNVOTE: AlmasterGM
VOTE: Zang

Let's trim down the pyramid a bit...

This is a straight-up lie. Mina claimed, in the question to AKnottedRope, that you bugging the people on your wagon for vote reasons is annoying and you chime in by asking if people are supposed to just pile on you for the hell of it. Therefore, you jumped in.

UNVOTE: AlmasterGM
VOTE: Zang

How is that scummy?

He said something about me that I didn't agree with so I asked him to explain.

As I said, annoying ≠ scummy. The way you asked Mina the question is paranoid.

I was asking Mina. Once again, why is that scummy?

Oh, why is you asking Mina a question scummy? There wasn't a need to intrude on her line of questioning. Yes, she posted an opinion of you, but I interpret it as relatively null.

So, why are you voting me?

Your reaction is unnatural, Zang. A milder response such as "I don't like how you dismiss my trying to figure out what the case on me is as annoying" might have gone over with me well, but basically asking "What the hell am I supposed to do, sit there?" comes off as panicky scum to me.

*laughs at the wagon building on me*

I still like Zang as the lynch. He's more worried about himself than finding scum. AlmasterGM (sorry) and CooLDoG are lynches I support also.

*laughs at the wagon building on me*

I still like Zang as the lynch. He's more worried about himself than finding scum. AlmasterGM (sorry) and CooLDoG are lynches I support also.

I'm not more worried about myself than finding scum. I found Mariyta and I probably found another one. Also, why are you voting for me? As I said before, your reason is weak.

For the ten millionth time, I don't like how you reacted to Mina's comment about the wagon on you. Annoying ≠ scummy, and there was no reason to react by asking if the correct thing to do was to ignore all the votes on you. I've pulled that "am I supposed to sit there and let the votes pile on me?" stunt as scum myself,

IN A GAME YOU MODDED.

Granted, I answered my own question, but still...

As for the CooLDoG wagon, I'm going to jump on. I commented earlier that I didn't like the meta case on xRECKONERx by either him or AlmasterGM. I'm still pretty confident that there is a scum neighbor, but hey—I might get info by leaving them alive.

UNVOTE: Zang
VOTE: CooLDoG

Oh, and...

Given a choice between StrangerCoug and CooLDoG, I'd choose the former, because I dislike the way he tried to spin Zang's question as "lying".

Where did I do this? I believe the case I spun off it is that he is overreacting, not lying.

But is there anyone other than Mariyta who'd be up for a lynch that isn't CooLDoG or StrangerCoug?

Zang can die in my opinion.

So yes, the bulk of your accusation was that he was jumping in. But you calling him a liar felt like a misrep. Zang did not lie about the fact that he didn't answer my question to AKR. Also, in Zang's defence, the implication was there that I disliked his pestering people for votes (and therefore found it slightly scummy).

And although I also disliked his jumping in, the fact that you conveniently found Zang scummy for something small that occurred after his wagon took up steam also rubbed me the wrong way.

The lie was that he didn't jump in when, in fact, he did, and your post aligns with this thinking. It's true that Zang didn't answer your question for AKnottedRope and asked you a question himself, but that's it.

A dead Zang would make me happy, but whatever floats your boat...

Untrod Tripod and Zang are my other suspects, but I need to read UT a bit closer. I'll continue my Day 1 push on Zang in the meantime.

VOTE: Zang

Wait—you think Zang could be scum, yet I'm scummy for voting him? Unless you think I'm bussing him, this makes no sense. FoS.

Maybe that's because your reasons for voting me are terrible.

Well, I'm not the only person that needs to learn how to read, now am I?

Reread #1020. Mariyta considers you a suspect as well. She also clarified that she never discussed my vote on you.

unvote, vote:zang

Zang is today's lynch. Lurking, not generating any content by himself. Only being reactive. Nos cum hunting. And one helluva lurker. I dub thee scum. Get lynched or get out.

I am lurking. How is this different than any other games I've played or earlier in this game? I don't see how I'm not generating any content. It's not like I'm wasting a whole post just to say my favorite flavor of ramen.

I can't tell if this is supposed to be a concession or a sarcastic response.

________________________________________________

When you take SC's posts in context of the game, he doesn't really jump out to you, but taken in ISO, and especially when you compile everything he had to say about Zang, it's pretty damning. SC only posted token arguments against Zang and then backed into the case and sat there like he'd always been for it. Also SC's votes on CD, UK (not pictured here) are TERRIBAD. Also his "UT and Zang are suspicious, but I'll vote for Zang for now" post smacks of bussing. I was a popular wagon at the time (oh wait, when was I not) and he voiced token support for it (for the first time in the game, might I add) for no reason, but votes Zang and never revists me. Also in his last post before his replacement request he said

HoS: LynchMePls

Wake up and smell the OMGUS, folks.

I'm liking AlmasterGM better.

Whaaaaaaaaaat? AGM and Zang were EXCEPTIONALLY unlikely to be buddies, so going for AGM and Zang as scumbuddies (remember, he was still voting Zang at the time) AND LEAVING HIS VOTE ON ZANG is awful. Also, his replacing out when he did (when Zang was almost definitely the day's lynch) allowed his vote to stay on Zang while his slot didn't have to do anything other than help the lynch. That feels bad to me.


tl;dr
I find SC/Spyrex likely to be Zang's buddy, but I'm not dropping my vote yet, I will explain why in the next post