Mini 269 - Game Over

[Adele]

/confirm
yay!

[Adele]

My PM states, along with the investigation ability, I have a drawback, I can not be protected at night. So I am actually wondering if there is another cop out there

huh.
1) Why did it seem like a good idea to share that you can't be protected? If it's assumed you're being protected then the doc's protection isn't exactly "wasted" since whether you really are or not, the mafia would probably prefer to hit someone else. You're playing like you

want

to get night-killed.
BTW, is there any flavor explaning why you aren't protected? ta.
2) You expect another cop? So a counter-claim is anything but evidence against you?

Too weird. Not enough for a vote, considering the claim, but certainly

FOS: Graken

; that post was mighty odd.

[Adele]

agreed.

UnFOS: Gracken

[Adele]

I'll add my voice to the chorus of: Flavour, please, Graken! You've already said everything of any use to the scum, may as well finish the job.

Ok people, PLEASE no more role claims!
At this rate, the scum will be able to figure out who our Doc is, if anyone else claims.
Its plain madness!!!
As for Graken, you've blown it mate! Revealing that you can't be protected night 1 is a suicidal thing to say, that is... if you are our cop?
I seriously suspect you are but you are saying some very sytange things and I'm starting to think you may be playing us.
I know many people that play on this site, who are VERY experienced, that scrap their details and create new names so that they will appear newbies when infact they arn't.
I think we all need to decide whether we take Graken at face value or whether we think he has made too many stupid mistakes now to be our real cop.
I'm undecided and am watching him closely but would like to hear other peoples views on him.

1. Graken said he can't be protected at any night, not only N1, so furhter nights are irrelevant.
2. This post seems a little over-emotional, he could be trying to come of as a worried townie.
3. He asks for input from others, then when two people have proposed the (really quite obvious) plan of testing Graken by letting him alive for a night, he calmly states that that's fine with him.

1. Graken didn't contradict this, but (I'd infer) thought Graken'd die N1
2. There'd been 2 roleclaims by then - post 46! I think emphasis was appropriate
3. Asked for input, got input, used input. How's that suspicious?

It's enough for me:

Vote Falcone

[Adele]

1) I thought that N1 comment of Dodgy was a slip-up that implied he knew something only the mafia could know. I realize now that the mafia probably didn't even get to talk before the game, so even if Dodgy were mafia, he wouldn't know that piece of info.
2&3) The main thing that got my attention was the sudden change in tone between Dodgy's posts 46 and 49. Adele is right that some emphasis was called for, since the two claims we have had probably won't do the town much good, let alone any further claims. And I researched some of Dodgy's earlier games, and his posting style is consistent with some earlier games he was protown in. So I don't have a reason anymore to think Dodgy is scum.

Unvote: Dodgy

Hate to repeat myself, but:
It's enough for me

Unvote: Falcone

[Adele]

armlx doesn't post much, but then nor do I. This is a weird game.

Would it be hypocritical to ask Babyjesus: "why did you vote for him?" at the same time as saying: "um, armlx, could you post please?"

I feel zero compulsion to be angry at anyone here. No-one's insulting people, there are no dumb bandwagons (or smart ones either)... this is

such

a weird game.

[Adele]

i think that is fairly nuts

First off, if you reveal who you targeted and Speedy says he targeted the same guy, the mafia

might

manage to figure out who Speedy targeted.

Second, you believe you are proposing pro-town actions. Why would the scum support you?

Third, you... um...

want

people to vote for you? Like, to kill you? If you are a townie and you get killed your results will be verified then. If people don't want to kill you because they don't think you're scum and they trust you, why push them to kill you? that doesn't make sense to me.

none of that makes any sense to me. I am confused.

[Adele]

Assuming speedy's role was truth, do you think he's pro-town or mafia, BabyJesus? He may be less valuable than vanilla (depending on if the mafia have an investigator), but if he's more probably town, then he's not a better lynch, is he?

[Adele]

I don't know if I trust Graken; him telling us everything the way he did seemed foolish to me and I don't see how he thought he'd benefit town by oversharing. But pursuing that avenue is a job for another day, when we've got more claims and evidence under our belt - we can't be sure this wasn't (or that it was) a gambit knowing what we know now.

Speedy's role looks scummy to me, and the flavor does too.[quote="Poirot]]Plus he's a tabloid reporter. Nothing good can come from that.[/quote]Seriously, are they generally thought of as the "good guys"? Seems like a scum rolename to me.

Vote: SpeedyKQ

That's his fourth

[Adele]

That's his fourth

Sorry, when I wrote that I'd not seen Graken's post. It's his fifth vote.

[Adele]

I don't think so. I make that six votes, with seven to lynch.

[Adele]

Game started in day, 12 alive, seven to lynch, right?

Falcone, Dodgy, Poirot, Graken, Adele, BabyJesus. Who've I missed?

[Adele]

That doesn't answer my question and is just annoying.

[Adele]

To the very best of my knowledge.

[Adele]

Well, I'm very easily confused...

Nah , it's for people who

aren't

me, because I don't want to set the gender button.

[Adele]

Any flavour for why a tabloid reporter's a good guy? That seems really nonintuitive to me.

[Adele]

You have got to be kidding me. Did you not consider

asking

?

confirm vote: SpeedyKQ

come on, this guy is scum to the best of

his

knowledge!

[Adele]

A doc lied and said he was a cop? That is the

weirdest play ever

! I cannot overstate my confusion. There is too much confusion for me to effectively communicate it. Suffice to say: Huh???

[Adele]

May I ask why?

[Adele]

btw,

mod

, the thread

title

still says "night one"

[Adele]

Rule 5, Graken. Move to strike.

[Adele]

We should start with the Speedy wagon

I think lynching Speedy was the right play. He told the truth about his role, but we couldn't trust him to not be scum anyway.

@BabyJesus: why are you voting for me?

[Adele]

And why do you think I should be lynched?

[Adele]

Sorry, didn't mean to be slow there.

How about: what is the reasoning behind your thinking that I am scum?

[Adele]

good idea!

vote: BabyJesus

For obstinacy and

no

logic.

[Adele]

Yeah, I really feel at peace with my vote too, almost as though I gave you several chances to make any attempt at explanation...

It's nice that we're both happy

[Adele]

And I must admit, I'm curious too.

You might not have picked up on that.

I was pretty subtle about it.

[Adele]

Unvote: BabyJesus

. Thank you. And I can see what tweaked you. His behaviour just seemed

so

illogical that I was at something of a loss. It's like my kryptonite. Our interactions were atypical.

btw, the "voice from beyond the grave" thing? Just wrong, man. Our poor mod...

[Adele]

Every time I see his name, it jumps into my brain anew:
"Matjoe, Matjoeman... I've got to be, a Matjoeman..."

grr

[Adele]

Remember, the "preview" button is your friend.

Fixed:

Back sorry, was focusing on my other mafia game on another site, but now I'm dead.

Every time I see his name, it jumps into my brain anew:
"Matjoe, Matjoeman... I've got to be, a Matjoeman..."

Yeah I get that a lot.

Reading through everyone's posts his stuck out to me....contributing very little, but what he DOES contribute is a whole lot of FOS'ing and casting suspicion on everyone, but not committing himself often with a vote....

Its been hard for me to read people this game. Your older vote of Adele was scummy, but from what I've heard you do that a lot.

Regarding the second point, once BabyJesus (finally) explained his vote for me, I understood it. Obviously I don't

agree

but I can see where he was coming from and I don't think it was scummy.

[Adele]

Regarding the "commanding" accusation, it's worth mentioning that (from what I've seen), Falcone's not a reticent player. Speaking up and being willing to take the lead look like natural Falcone play to me, town or scum.

[Adele]

First, the general point made against Green Crayons. Some people have said that he's not contributed content. If those people would be kind enough to give an example of a good "content" post and explain the distinction between it and GC's I'd be grateful, because GC's contribution sure looks like a solid, fairly extensive, and high content post to me.

He presented quotes and explained why they seemed suspcious to them. He made his position clear. This isn't under-the-radar stuff; he's perfectly upfront about where he stands.

Now, BabyJesus.

LOL, your small comments about why certain people arn't dead yet BJ, do make me laugh , and now your'e asking someone else for their reasoning on why they are voting someone???

No, their irksome and add nothing to the conversation. It's a wonderfully dull tactic of making himself look like he's active while adding nothing to the conversation. And since it seems to be his general play style, one can't directly derive guilt or innocence from it. Another

FoS

. I'll vote shortly when I get reactions.

What is the point of a "FOS" for someone thing which you claim is not an indicator of guilt....

I'm starting to get tired of people behaving in a way that does not assist the town (or is even detrimental); in a way that is entirely self-serving whether town or scum but more so in the latter case, and being told: "it's not a scum tell; he's always like that". Well,

don't be

. He's FoSing you because your behaviour (while not inherently suspicious) is a good cover for scum.

I've looked through your posts again.

Vote: BabyJesus

. I'm ready to hear more content from you. You've shown you're capable, mostly just disinterested in contributing, whether it's caution or laziness.

[Adele]

Refusing to contribute doesn't win games. Pressuring people (to provide content, to claim if useful etc), from what little I've seen, does. This isn't me trying to encourage you to take some ivory-tower ideal to heart. Some people only give more when folk go on at them. I think you're one of those people.

Your role? To be honest, having read your posts several times, I don't know what it is. You haven't claimed, and I'm not gonna assume you're a certain role because you imply it.

[Adele]

BJ: What's the point of hinting at a role if you think it's "that obvious"? Just tell us so we're not confused

QFT. I have a theory, but I'd rather have a claim. When things are subtle, scum have better chance of figuring it out than townies, so you might as well spell it out.

Well duh. Doesn't EVERYONE try to play the same whether they are scum or town? I thought that was the whole point? There's not a single player that wishes they could avoid having a scum tell. Why would that draw your ire?

Personally, it draws

my

ire because you go too far. You prioritise it too high, sacrificing pro-town behaviour that might put you at risk. And, frankly, if you're a townie who'd rather put the town at risk than yourself, I don't consider you to be on my side.

[Adele]

(Note to self: don't post after watching superhero movies; you get melodramatic)

[Adele]

Falcone, Dodgy, Poirot, Graken, Adele, BabyJesus

Those people lynched SpeedyKQ. I actually forgot about looking back on that. BTW, why were there 7 votes on Speedy when 6 people were voting him?

Green Crayons also voted for Speedy. His was the lynching vote.

Anyways, both people I went after were on the Speedy wagon, even without me remembering that. Coincidence? I think not.

I'm not sure what point you're making here... that we can infer that your attacks were justified? Anyway, you make it sound like attacking two people on the wagon was rather unlikely. In fact, if you had attacked two people completely randomly, there'd be an 8.3% chance neither of them were on the wagon, 50% chance one of them was, and a

41.6% chance

that they both were on the wagon. Coincidence? Not exactly spooky...

[Adele]

I

had

assumed it was a minor error on the part of the mod...

but, then, the mod is never wrong.

[Adele]

I'm still voting for Baby J.

[Adele]

Because I hadn't decided to unvote you yet. And with only one vote to your name, you can hardly claim I'm trying to push a bandwagon or any such thing.

Anyway, the only time I've seen your role with my own eyes, it was in the hands of scum.

[Adele]

Killer7.

[Adele]

as I said its not TYPICALLY a scum role, although there is nothing that says it can;t be.

Fair do's; I have some research ahead, clearly. Still, I hope you understand why a pro-towner might have chosen not to unvote yet.

[Adele]

Speedy had seven votes, and I was the last to vote him. The mod just forgot to add my name into that final vote tally. But, for the record, I was the lynching vote.

Well, you

would

have voted him, if you'd only had the chance.

[Adele]

No, twelve were alive. 12 / 2 = 6 + 1 = 7 as majority. Since I was number seven, I was the last vote to count towards his lynch.

I think he would have died without your vote.

[Adele]

Being as how I was so slow, I've unilaterally decided to stick my nose where it doesn't belong and provide a hint.
I've emboldened certain sections.

Game started in day, 12 alive, seven to lynch, right?

Falcone, Dodgy, Poirot, Graken, Adele,

BabyJesus

. Who've I missed?

he's dead, Jim.

If it's seven to lynch and only six have voted... he would still be alive..

Fine, you're right, and I'm wrong.

Vote Count

7

, SpeedyKQ (Falcone Dodgy Poirot Graken Adele

BabyJesus

)

Oh, and you can't seriously be voting me becuase you think I'm scum.

If you don't know my role

, then you either 1) completely useless to the town because you're not paying attention, or 2) are scum who doesn't care and just wants to run somebody up.

You really need to stop skimming. The mod posted the final vote tally,

I don't think GC was on it.

btw,

unvote: BabyJesus

[Adele]

@ Adele, you seem to vote people and then when they stand up for themselves, you unvote.
For gods sake, stand by your convictions for once!!!

Sorry sir...


Just kidding. I'm no coward, and I don't appreciate the implication. What have I done?
1) I first voted for Falcone because of his reasons for voting for you, and unvoted after he did - due in part to the arguments I presented.
2) I voted for Speedy, I confirmed my vote for Speedy and I stuck by that until he died.
3) Then, today, I voted for BabyJ out of frustration, unvoted when he did what I asked, then voted for him again out of frustration, and when I unvoted it was because, at the end of the day, I'm not that suspicious of him - I just don't think he plays nice.

@BabyJ: could you give us a rundown of why we oughta lynch Matjoe (besides that we should follow you like big ol' sheep)? Ta

[Adele]

Exactly @ Adele

What do you mean?

[Adele]

@ Adele
Your post addressing my comments about you not sticking with your convictions was upheld by yourself in your subsequent post.
Thays what "Exactly" meant.

Okay, you are really getting on my t... nerves. You reckoned that when people stood up for themselves, I unvoted. I said that of the three people I voted for, one backed down, one got lynched, and one was never intended to get lynched anyway. You reply "exactly"

when I have contradicted you flat

?

FOS: Dodgy

I wouldn't be surprised if he was trying to get me riled to distract me from playing a part in real discussions - if I have got the reputation of being that easily enflamed and redirected, darn, it's on me to fix it, but I'm not playing into it.
So, obviously, I'll add more to the general discussion asap.

[Adele]

Get over yourself, either you think yourself important enough for me to want to try to stop you from entering into discussions (which is hilarious by the way) or as I suspect, you are angered by my comments and have FOS'ed me for personal reasons, masked by a laughable theory.

"Important" nothing, I think you'd do it to any townie it'd work on.

armlx has some quick thinking and good talking to do - a good, long solid post from him would help - but I don't think we should lynch him yet. I'm all for giving people one more chance to try to dig out of their hole... and maybe just dig themselves deeper.

[Adele]

<---- Mason. Don't Lynch.

Who're you masoned with?

[Adele]

Adele, are you sure it's a good idea to out the other mason(s)? Mason is a fairly common role, even in Mini games. And I think that when no dead masons appear in a couple of days, armlx' position would become untenable if he were lying.

That he might be

lying

isn't my concern, exactly...

[Adele]

Adele, are you sure it's a good idea to out the other mason(s)? Mason is a fairly common role, even in Mini games. And I think that when no dead masons appear in a couple of days, armlx' position would become untenable if he were lying.

That he might be

lying

isn't my concern, exactly...

Then why do you want the other mason(s) to come out?

I don't want them to come out, exactly, either. I want to know if he has one mason only or if there are more.

[Adele]

You're right, the original question came at it from the wrong angle. I think armlx understands what I mean, though.

[Adele]

Look, I'd rather not say anything else until armlx replies.

@armlx: am i right in thinking xyz with the ... and only that and hmm?
'cos if so, ooh...

[Adele]

IGMEOY=I've Got My Eye On You.
There's a list of Commonly Used Abbreviations (heh, or "CUA") on the wiki.
IGMEOY is one step down from a FOS

[Adele]

Look, I'd rather not say anything else until armlx replies.

@armlx: am i right in thinking xyz with the ... and only that and hmm?
'cos if so, ooh...

I think I know what this means. Armlx, do you know what she's talking about?

I do know. Whether or not you know what I know that she knows is a different matter.

Okay. Now

I'm

confused. Which you could argue I deserve

How Poirot knows what I'm getting at, I have

no

idea.
armlx

should

know what I mean, broadly speaking; he hasn't answered my question/concern yet, but It's not urgent; we can leave it 'til tomorrow or whatever.

so can we focus on lynching falcone now....

Do I look like a sheep?
*checks mirror*
Okay, yeah, I do kinda look like a sheep. I ought to style my hair differently...
But, anyway, I'm

not

a sheep. If you want us to follow your lead, you need to give some kind of reasoning, and not just expect us to lynch someone at your seemingly-random behest.

[Adele]

Obviously as the 2 confirmed townies are voting Falcone he is scum.....

Yeah, because townies are *never* wrong...

And I don't know that either of you have been

confirmed

...

[Adele]

hmmm... for want of any other leads to pursue right now, I'm gonna jump on the Falcone wagon (there's something about him I don't quite trust) but ask again that if anyone has anything solid on anyone - not just Falcone - to pipe up now.

vote: Falcone

[Adele]

It has been less than thirty hours since Falcone claimed, opened up a claim-test option and

got lynched

! That's so wrong. Major

FOS: Dodgy and Poirot

for ignoring Falcone's willingness to prove his claim - and so definately die one way or the other - and throwing their votes on without bothering to give anyone else a chance to remove theirs.

[Adele]

By my reckoning, BabyJesus is one of those five, and he's a double-voter, bringing the

count

up to 6, so he's lynched.
I was complaining about not having fair opportunity to

un

vote him, but on the off-chance you're right,

Unvote: Falcone

And I never claimed to be certain of his innocence - but I think this claim is his death sentence one way or the other, so why not give him a chance to be useful to the town?
Possible answer: because your interests run contrary to the town's.

[Adele]

Regarding post 402, I'm sorry you feel that way.

Regarding post 403, My "protection of him is alarming"? I stated that his claim was testable, so perhaps we should give him that chance. I certainly don't want to collude in his lynching today. Why so skittish?

[Adele]

MOD, can you tell us if we have a lynch here or not please.

Vote Count

3 Falcone (Baby J, armlx)

6 to lynch

Then me, Dodgy and Poirot. Makes 6, right? Where's the confusion?

Read my third-to-last post. I responded to his post by saying that it made sense, but he threatened to kill me, which is a mistake. Do what you will, tell me when to claim, but Falcone, in the grand scheme of things, could have done serious harm...if we believe his claim in the first place. And I would definitely not want to see two dead townies on day three, with no progress made.

He also said he'd follow town consensus. If you thought the Martyr nightkill was dangerous to use, that might have been worth discussing. I guess it's all moot now, though. Twilight unvotes count for nothing.

[Adele]

Vote: Poirot

. Even though Falcone turned out to be scum, dropping the hammer in that situation was scummy of Poirot, whether he's in a different scum group, an SK, was deliberately distancing or had a different idea of the plan than Falcone's.

The other possibility - that he's a townie who is

so important

it was worth just ending it there to reduce the risk on his life , or is merely selfish, shortsighted, or impatient - is far from remote, of course. But Poirot's behaved in a scummy, scummy way.

Read my third-to-last post. I responded to his post by saying that it made sense, but he threatened to

kill

me, which is a mistake. Do what you will, tell me when to claim, but Falcone, in the grand scheme of things, could have done serious harm...if we believe his claim in the first place. And I would definitely not want to see two dead townies on day three, with no progress made.

He said he'd follow the town's decision. Unless you knew at that point that he was scum, you deliberately took from the town the opportunity for an extra kill.

[Adele]

Vote: Poirot. Even though Falcone turned out to be scum, dropping the hammer in that situation was scummy of Poirot, whether he's in a different scum group, an SK, was deliberately distancing or had a different idea of the plan than Falcone's.

The other possibility - that he's a townie who is so important it was worth just ending it there to reduce the risk on his life , or is merely selfish, shortsighted, or impatient - is far from remote, of course. But Poirot's behaved in a scummy, scummy way.

Read my third-to-last post. I responded to his post by saying that it made sense, but he threatened to kill me, which is a mistake. Do what you will, tell me when to claim, but Falcone, in the grand scheme of things, could have done serious harm...if we believe his claim in the first place. And I would definitely not want to see two dead townies on day three, with no progress made.

He said he'd follow the town's decision. Unless you knew at that point that he was scum, you deliberately took from the town the opportunity for an extra kill.

I'm sorry, Poirot, did I miss the bit where you answered this point? I was just wondering if you'd been certain that Falcone was lying or if your intention was to deny the town an extra kill?

[Adele]

That looks like a lepton to me.

Are you stating that if we lynch Dodgy and he's innocent we can consider you scum? If so then

Unvote, Vote: Dodgy

[Adele]

Now I have role claimed, I am bound to be killed tonight so lets make use of my role and go through every player

I

like

this idea... get your thoughts on every player then lynch you to see what you are, and if you're innocent, follow your results (and if guilty, mostly ignore them).

...in a

way

, you've counterclaimed Cop (well, it's an investigative role). Could there be any Millers? Actually, it occurs to me that an Undertaker role

might

have a Miller aspect (I dunno, they seem related to me), so maybe Poirot's a clear cop yet Dodgy's telling the truth. It'd be a funny turn-up for the books if Dodgy actually confirmed Poirot!

[Adele]

Woo-hoo!

Two down.

[Adele]

Bah! Go town!

[Adele]

Heads-up: If you aren't Graken, don't bother reading this post; I'm just ranting at him for sucking so much.

Graken:
"Bah, go town" is standard fare. It didn't relate to the game in play. If it upset the mod, then I'm sorry (though he didn't PM me) but unless the "bah, go town" post is explicitly forbidden, it's cool. It's a convention that follows the spirit of the rules.

Posting game-relevant stuff, however, is uncool. Very, very uncool. You broke the letter of the rules, the spirit of the rules, and all conventions about friendly play.

And lying is also uncool. Halo has every right to give you a role that changes mid-play. The fact that he didn't let you know straight away, as he'd planned? It reflects

marginally

badly on him, but is irrelevant to you. Why join the game if you're only interested in being cannon-fodder? What if you'd not been nightkilled? You'd have likely been lynched the next day, effectively giving the scum an extra kill.

[Adele]

GG, btw

If anyone was curious, my PM didn't name me "mason", but "cleaner"; I cleaned armlx's house at night and could talk to him then, but he wasn't confirmed pro-town. So when he claimed mason, I was worried. Did he have another mason (or masons) who

could

confirm him, or was it just me? Had he been told that he wasn't confirmed to me (I don't think I ever mentioned it in a PM).
I was trying to communicate this information in such a way that armlx'd get it and no-one else would. Didn't quite succeed. I'm pretty sure Matjoeman figured it out; did you too, Poirot? You said at the time you thought you knew what I was asking...

And I felt so dumb for reading and rereading the end of Day 1 so much before I realised what BJ's role was. Heh.