Cyclic Experimentation Set x01 - [Game Over]

[popsofctown]

There's enough dead scums that L-almost maximum isn't dangerous. But I'll give you peace of mine, since pressure is not how you beat jello anyway.

unvote

I can cosign everything else in LMP's post. There aren't any powers left in the game that are sooo powerful that we're optimizing nightkills by much with a massclaim.

[LimMePls]

Also, should we ever get to a game state where there are only CONFIRMED players left, WE LYNCH POPS FIRST.

[DrippingGoofball]

Also, I think DGB is the only proper lynch at this point. The fewer kills in this game state the better, and there is the incredibly likely chance that she is SK anyways.

Aw man, no, I want to bust my scum-killing record! I want that "best replacement" scummy award under my name!!! It's sooo obv that my wincon is with the town, the data is all there. It's also a matter of scumhunter pride to prefer the NK to the lynch.

I didn't mind all the SK speculation yesterday, I let it run amock... as YOU should know LMP, I had reasons to be

eager to draw the NK

. I didn't mind if the scum went all "

ZOMG DGB is SK!!! We gotta kill her before she exterminates us

!"

But in any event, if we mine the data correctly, we should eliminate the confirmed townies, and round up the couple of scum. We lynch one; if we don't hit scum or win straight away, I purge the other. EVEN IF I were to shoot a townie instead... and I was a SK... we still have enough players to lynch me tomorrow, which you won't anyway because the game will be won. If I were SK... it would be completely impossible for me to win this game. You gotta believe me, I'm not a SK. I see your points, as my role is an outlier, but I'm not.

I'm reminded of Geezer Mafia where I was a BP/vig. I could pick one or the other. When I saw this role, my thought was: "

I can never, ever, ever claim this actual role. The stench of SK is overwhelming.

" It didn't dawn on me that way in this game, because the role is pretty complicated, as is the formatting, and I suck with rules, but when I saw that my role was unique, I realized it was not realistically "claimable."

But all you have to do to convince yourselves is look at my actions. I've done nothing but bulldoze the town and remove abilities that would help them. Except for the Nero Cain purge, I have not taken a single action that was to the detriment of the town. And you guys KNOW I'm Eruci.

And I'm still trying; because I'm town. An SK would have lost right now, and given up.

Like the Daevori have been doing

[DrippingGoofball]

I've done nothing but bulldoze the

SCUM

and remove abilities that would help them. Except for the Nero Cain purge, I have not taken a single action that was to the detriment of the town.

Oh boy oh boy This is one bad typo.

[LimMePls]

I agree somewhat DGB, but I'll tell you what I fear. By your own admission you have been "shelving" powers and have been going out of your way to be the hammer vote on players. My fear is that you are an SK with an alternate win condition: namely one that requires you to "shelve" a certain number of powers. My fear can be founded on this game where we faced an SK that had an alternate win condition tied to the mechanics of that game.

I just don't feel comfortable with you alive running amok, "shelving" things and causing what I see now as a very town-win state into a less town-favored game state. At this point, if you are town as you claim, surely you can see the benefit in limiting us to 1 NK a night and removing the SK speculation.

Please make two lists for me DGB, one where you rank all of the NON-CONFIRMED players from town to scum, and one where you list all the players together from town to scum. When you flip town as you protest you will, I promise you that while I'm alive, your input will be factored into future decisions.

[I Am Innocent]

I too have a fear of some alternate win condition for DGB. If we are wrong, we still get information that should help seal a town victory, no?

****************

As for the mass claim, I am not so sure about that.

I do not want the Reuser Ability claiming, that is one where the Doctor ability could be used randomly on the "confirmed innocents".

I do think if if DGB dies D5, then the hibernate ability should be rotated to a confirmed innocent going forward.

*************************

So my suggestion:

The four confirmed innocents state whether they have the hibernate ability or not.

If none do, the person with the reuser ability randomly chooses one of the four players to protect. If one does have the hibernate ability, the person chooses one of the other three players to protect tonight. All randomly, and all quietly (DO NOT COME FORWARD WITH THE REUSER ABILITY, & ESP DO NOT SAY WHO YOU WOULD BE PROTECTING).

We lynch DGB. If he dies, we roleblock BunnyLover (who has claimed 0 abilities today) and Track StrangerCoug

If we lynch DGB and for some strange reasons he survives the lynch (Treestump?), we roleblock DGB and Track BunnyLover (who once again should have no abilities).

The the end of the night, Hibernate ability, and probably (?) reuser ability should be passed to Confirmed Innocent.

Thoughts people?

[LimMePls]

So my suggestion:

The four confirmed innocents state whether they have the hibernate ability or not.

If none do, the person with the reuser ability randomly chooses one of the four players to protect. If one does have the hibernate ability, the person chooses one of the other three players to protect tonight. All randomly, and all quietly (DO NOT COME FORWARD WITH THE REUSER ABILITY, & ESP DO NOT SAY WHO YOU WOULD BE PROTECTING).

We lynch DGB. If he dies, we roleblock BunnyLover (who has claimed 0 abilities today) and Track StrangerCoug

If we lynch DGB and for some strange reasons he survives the lynch (Treestump?), we roleblock DGB and Track BunnyLover (who once again should have no abilities).

The the end of the night, Hibernate ability, and probably (?) reuser ability should be passed to Confirmed Innocent.

Thoughts people?

See, this is why I wanted to talk about it. This makes perfect sense, and is why I'm convinced we can devise an optimal (possibly automatic) win strategy.

So, if we're going to follow this route, then should none of the confirmed townies have the hibernate, we're saying that whoever has the hibernate is REQUIRED to pass to one of the confirmeds, but not to say who they are passing it to.

Also, if we're not going with a massclaim, has everyone satisfied our standard claiming? IE shouldn't we be full claiming our N3 and declaring if we had/didn't an ability last night? What exactly are we supposed to claim?

[Saint]

Also, should we ever get to a game state where there are only CONFIRMED players left, WE LYNCH POPS FIRST.

I'm

jealous

confused. Why pops first?

We lynch DGB. If he dies, we roleblock BunnyLover (who has claimed 0 abilities today) and Track StrangerCoug

There is a potential flaw in this. However, that doesn't make this a bad plan.

See, this is why I wanted to talk about it.

I'm pretty sure I already said the full massclaim idea wasn't a good one...

Also, if we're not going with a massclaim, has everyone satisfied our standard claiming? IE shouldn't we be full claiming our N3 and declaring if we had/didn't an ability last night? What exactly are we supposed to claim?

All actions and states should be claimed EXCEPT who was passed to N4. This should include Night action results from N4.

[LimMePls]

Also, should we ever get to a game state where there are only CONFIRMED players left, WE LYNCH POPS FIRST.

I'm

jealous

confused. Why pops first?

Cause I was pretty convinced he was scum?

Also, if we're not going with a massclaim, has everyone satisfied our standard claiming? IE shouldn't we be full claiming our N3 and declaring if we had/didn't an ability last night? What exactly are we supposed to claim?

All actions and states should be claimed EXCEPT who was passed to N4. This should include Night action results from N4.

N3 I Doc protected IAI with the reuser ability. I then passed it to IAI. N4 I had the Monitor ability. I monitored q21, and he had an ability.

[Saint]

N4 I had the Monitor ability. I monitored q21, and he had an ability.

Score one for me being right about irrelevant things!

I may as well go ahead and share my objection to IAI's plan. Roleblocking Bunnylover and Tracking Coug does not, say, prevent Coug from No Killing to evade the Track (or for that matter anyone else No Killing to frame Bunnylover).

That doesn't make it a bad plan, because
1) assuming one Daevori left, a successful kill confirms whoever is Blocked
2) therefore assuming the Roleblocker ability never leaves play, scum should not be able to kill more people than we can confirm, and with our large base of confirmeds at this stage we should never run out of guaranTownies
3, :speculation:) based on Monitor and how the scumkill ability works it's quite possible that a lone scum CANNOT No Kill to begin with (without passing the ability to the Void and therefore losing their NK, which would just prolong the inevitable)

Based on this it's entirely possible that after lynching Goofball it will become impossible for Daevori to win.

If there is more than one Daevori left then we're pretty certain to find one in the next two Days anyway.

[Bunnylover]

@IAI: I'm confused as to why I am going to be roleblocked? I agree that I should be tracked because that would just further push me down the list to who to lynch.
I think the ability cop is still around, so that should be used on me as well, to counter act if scum has the tracker ability and lies to everyone in an act to take down one more townie before their death.

[I Am Innocent]

@IAI: I'm confused as to why I am going to be roleblocked? I agree that I should be tracked because that would just further push me down the list to who to lynch.
I think the ability cop is still around, so that should be used on me as well, to counter act if scum has the tracker ability and lies to everyone in an act to take down one more townie before their death.

The roleblocker can also do more damage than good if we are not careful. For instance, we want to make sure the roleblocker is not used on someone who has the Tracker or Reuser Ability.

The fact that you already claimed vanilla makes you the obvious choice (assuming DGB is dead, if not he becomes the obvious choice).

[Bunnylover]

@IAI: I'm confused as to why I am going to be roleblocked? I agree that I should be tracked because that would just further push me down the list to who to lynch.
I think the ability cop is still around, so that should be used on me as well, to counter act if scum has the tracker ability and lies to everyone in an act to take down one more townie before their death.

The roleblocker can also do more damage than good if we are not careful. For instance, we want to make sure the roleblocker is not used on someone who has the Tracker or Reuser Ability.

The fact that you already claimed vanilla makes you the obvious choice (assuming DGB is dead, if not he becomes the obvious choice).

Now I get it

[DrippingGoofball]

Guys don't make me cry.

I've done such good work here, I want to see all the scum dead in my lifetime. This is my best performance ever. I want to nail the last scum.

[I Am Innocent]

Guys don't make me cry.

I've done such good work here, I want to see all the scum dead in my lifetime. This is my best performance ever. I want to nail the last scum.

Please make two lists for me DGB, one where you rank all of the NON-CONFIRMED players from town to scum, and one where you list all the players together from town to scum. When you flip town as you protest you will, I promise you that while I'm alive, your input will be factored into future decisions.

.

[popsofctown]

Also, should we ever get to a game state where there are only CONFIRMED players left, WE LYNCH POPS FIRST.

I'm

jealous

confused. Why pops first?

Cause I was pretty convinced he was scum?

Also, if we're not going with a massclaim, has everyone satisfied our standard claiming? IE shouldn't we be full claiming our N3 and declaring if we had/didn't an ability last night? What exactly are we supposed to claim?

All actions and states should be claimed EXCEPT who was passed to N4. This should include Night action results from N4.

N3 I Doc protected IAI with the reuser ability. I then passed it to IAI. N4 I had the Monitor ability. I monitored q21, and he had an ability.

That's not very logical. If only confirmed players are left in the game, someone lied about the way abilities were passed. I can't have lied though, neighborizer both cycles and affects the person it targets, and everyone in the neighbor thread watched q21 pass and neighborize implosion, who passed and neighborized me, who passed and neighborized CKD. Implosion can verify this, and he's been confirmed town twice at this point, in addition to having ridiculously obvtown play.

Was hoping he'd make a few explicit statements earlier, but apparently he doesn't quite comprehend that my personal popularity is 20,000 leagues under the sea at the moment.

[popsofctown]

ITT DGB says "the fact that I stay alive is more important than the town becoming composed of only Eruci".

[popsofctown]

Guys I wrote I actually wrote the 'p' in popsofctown at the top of my math quiz today before erasing it and writing my name.




Maybe I should replace out.

[StrangerCoug]

@DGB: Are you still claiming you didn't have the purge ability the night NC died?

I am the new generation. I make the program evolve.

The purge is always mine.

When I purge a player, or when I hammer a player (does this become clearer now?), I get to scan them for abilities. I can shelf their abilities, or I can re-circulate them.

I got the Ability Remover shelved, because it shouldn't fall into the hands of scum.

I got the Tree Stump shelved. It is no longer a threat. The Tree Stump is in my possession, yet it does not affect me.

Let me prove it, showing that I do have a vote:

VOTE: Pops

Now, it should be abundantly clear that I have been gunning for scum, and scum alone.

If I were a SK, I'd be gunning down townies that are likely to have abilities and I would have removed them from play. I also would not have attracted attention with repeated hammers (WIFOM, I know), on players that weren't supposed to have any abilities. I have only removed abilities that were a detriment to the town.

I am NOT NK-immune. The remaining scum will kill me tonight. I am their #1 enemy. I purged two of them from vote analysis alone, and hammered two that were wagoned by the rest of the town.

I think if we lynch pops, we will win the game right there and then.

If we don't, I will be NK'd.

The shelved abilities return to play when I die in a different way depending on whether I am killed during the day phase, or during the night phase.

Letting me die in the night phase would be best.

I suspect pops will fight this one tooth and nail, because his lynch is probably the end of the road for the Daevori

A weak vote on the person you don't want confirmed town by your death. How lovely.

I'd give you my vote, but:

IF YOU ARE VOTING RIGHT NOW, YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY DOING IT WRONG AND BEING ANTI-TOWN. SO KNOCK IT OFF.

We have no deadline pressure and we have a veritable SHIT TON of minable data.

@IAI: I think LMP might have meant a massclaim of the abilities we're HOLDING, so we can confirm more townies at the expense of losing some PRs. I'd rather get some info on the third faction by lynching DGB though, so we can make sure confirmed innocents are actually confirmed to be innocent.

Mostly this. We have a set of confirmed towns and a set of unconfirmed towns. If we mass claim all abilities, we can orchestrate the usage and passing of all the abilities in the game in such a way that we are guaranteed a town win. At least, that's my theory.

But I actually have another idea I've been brewing where we massclaim, but in a controlled way:

We have all the NON-CONFIRMEDS do full claims, including their abilities. Then the CONFIRMED players discuss the targetting AND passing of those abilities. Ideally we force NON-CONFIRMEDS to pass to NON-CONFIRMEDS. In this way we create more links between the NON-CONFIRMEDS so that when we do lynch a scum, if the game doesn't end we should generate more CONFIRMEDS. We then proceed to lynch from the pool of NON-CONFIRMEDS until we hit the final scum.

Of course the downside to the massclaiming (or even the "semi" mass claim) is we're going to be conceding a kill to the scum every night, whereas right now they don't know who the best target is (due to protective abilities).

Also, I think DGB is the only proper lynch at this point. The fewer kills in this game state the better, and there is the incredibly likely chance that she is SK anyways.

TL;DR
What I'm saying is that I think with a mass claim by the NON-CONFIRMEDS plus some optimal strategy we can game this setup from this point to an auto win.

I don't see a problem with this plan.

So my suggestion:

The four confirmed innocents state whether they have the hibernate ability or not.

If none do, the person with the reuser ability randomly chooses one of the four players to protect. If one does have the hibernate ability, the person chooses one of the other three players to protect tonight. All randomly, and all quietly (DO NOT COME FORWARD WITH THE REUSER ABILITY, & ESP DO NOT SAY WHO YOU WOULD BE PROTECTING).

We lynch DGB. If he dies, we roleblock BunnyLover (who has claimed 0 abilities today) and Track StrangerCoug

If we lynch DGB and for some strange reasons he survives the lynch (Treestump?), we roleblock DGB and Track BunnyLover (who once again should have no abilities).

The the end of the night, Hibernate ability, and probably (?) reuser ability should be passed to Confirmed Innocent.

Thoughts people?

On paper, it's great, but in practice I'm afraid of what will happen if scum refuses to kill because he or she suspects being tracked if he or she does.

Guys I wrote I actually wrote the 'p' in popsofctown at the top of my math quiz today before erasing it and writing my name.

I often sign my artwork "Jeffrey 'StrangerCoug' Hope" (my first and last name's in my Wiki, so it's not like it's hard to figure out anyway.

[WrathChild]

Guys don't make me cry.

I've done such good work here, I want to see all the scum dead in my lifetime. This is my best performance ever. I want to nail the last scum.

I like the work that DGB has done and I do NOT support her lynch. In fact, she is the biggest threat to the remaining scum.

We have AT LEAST 1 more Daevori, let's not waste the lynch on DGB and lynch mafia instead. If we fail, she'll kill the top suspect. If either of those flip scum, we will have tons more info. If none flip scum, there's bound to be enough new information to confirm the remaining scum. If all trails die, we lynch DGB in case she is the last remaining threat to the town.

Also, I say no on full claims.

[WrathChild]

Removed from the Game

Ability Redirector

(

TMH

->

Diddin

->RFG N2)

Doctor

(

DBE

->

Parama

->RFG D2)

Ability Remover

(

CHK

->RFG N1)

Double Voter

(

Powerox

-> RFG D1)

Watcher

(

muh

-> RFG Day 1)

Neighborizer

(

q21

->

implosion

->

Pops

->

CKD

-> RFG D4)

Treestump

(

Implosion

->

Curiouskarmadog

->

I Am Innocent

->

q21

-> RFG N4)

Claimed Abilities not RFG

Day Vig

(

diddin

->

themanhimself

(stole the ability) -> StrangerCoug -> WC -> ???)

Void Collector

((nobody D1) ->

I Am Innocent

-> StrangerCoug ->

IAI

-> ???)

Hibernate

(

quadz08

->

MOI

/Void/Collected by

I Am Innocent

->

Implosion

->??? -> ???)

Tracker

(nhammen (CHK) ->

Implosion

(SC)->

I Am Innocent

(Bunny) -> nhammen (DGB) -> ???)

Roleblock

(

Saint

(DBE) ->

q21

->

Implosion

(NC) ->

IAI

(Q21) -> ???)

Purge

(DrippingGoofball)

Ability Cop

(bunny -> nhammen ->

Saint

-> ??? -> ???)

Re-Initialize

(

Pops

-> DGB -> LMP ->

IAI

-> ???)

Duh on the pops thing, someone conuddled me.

This means that the remaining scum is in this group:
-nhammen
-bunnylover
-LMP
-SC
-WC

I will look into the details in a few, but my intial guess is that scum is either pushing for a DGB lynch or Mass Role Claim.

[WrathChild]

Removed from the Game

Ability Redirector

(

TMH

->

Diddin

->RFG N2)

Doctor

(

DBE

->

Parama

->RFG D2)

Ability Remover

(

CHK

->RFG N1)

Double Voter

(

Powerox

-> RFG D1)

Watcher

(

muh

-> RFG Day 1)

Neighborizer

(

q21

->

implosion

->

Pops

->

CKD

-> RFG D4)

Treestump

(

Implosion

->

Curiouskarmadog

->

I Am Innocent

->

q21

-> RFG N4)

Claimed Abilities not RFG

Day Vig

(

diddin

->

themanhimself

(stole the ability) -> VOID -> StrangerCoug -> WC -> ???)

Void Collector

((nobody D1) ->

I Am Innocent

-> StrangerCoug ->

IAI

-> ???)

Hibernate

(

quadz08

->

MOI

/Void/Collected by

I Am Innocent

->

Implosion

->??? -> ???)

Tracker

(nhammen (CHK) ->

Implosion

(SC)->

I Am Innocent

(Bunny) -> nhammen (DGB) -> ???)

Roleblock

(

Saint

(DBE) ->

q21

->

Implosion

(NC) ->

IAI

(Q21) -> ???)

Purge

(DrippingGoofball)

Ability Cop

(bunny -> nhammen ->

Saint

-> LMP -> ???)

Re-Initialize

(

Pops

-> DGB -> LMP ->

IAI

-> ???)

Slight Update

[WrathChild]

Also, should we ever get to a game state where there are only CONFIRMED players left, WE LYNCH POPS FIRST.

I'm

jealous

confused. Why pops first?

Cause I was pretty convinced he was scum?

Also, if we're not going with a massclaim, has everyone satisfied our standard claiming? IE shouldn't we be full claiming our N3 and declaring if we had/didn't an ability last night? What exactly are we supposed to claim?

All actions and states should be claimed EXCEPT who was passed to N4. This should include Night action results from N4.

N3 I Doc protected IAI with the reuser ability. I then passed it to IAI. N4 I had the Monitor ability. I monitored q21, and he had an ability.

Why would you monitor Q21? You knew he had an ability and was about to die. Seems convienent to announce results after they were made public.

[WrathChild]

Ok, I don't like the way LMP is playing today. He is advocating lynching DGB AND having the Hibernator from last night claim. Having the Hibernator claim basically means that there is a better chance of scum killing tonight because they will know who to target. We have no guarantee of a correct Doc or block to protect the person that claimed hibernator tonight. I don't like that IAI who is confirmed town is pushing this, but I like even less that LMP is on-board for it.

[WrathChild]

My suggestion is lynch LMP, Roleblock Bunny, Purge SC