Mafia 125: Khan's Game of Mafia (Game Over)

[nocase]

@nocase: Multi-Mafia and a Serial Killer? Run me through that, I don't find the likelihood of that high at all.

okay then let's lynch xtoxm.

[curiouskarmadog]

Fiiiiiiiiine, I'll revert.

Unvote, Vote: Antihero

suspect list:
Chevre
Antihero
nocase (contingent on Chevre)

and probably a 4th, but I'm not sure.

what is the case on Anti-hero again? and why is this wagoning developing so fast for no apparent reason?

Chevre is a much better lynch

[SpyreX]

The thing on dutch is it isn't simply the that sucks.

Its the that sucks + "OHO, it is YOU the miscreant" + ..... nothing.

Nothing.

[Dutch one]

???

[SpyreX]

Case.
In.
Point.

[Cyberbob]

CKD: In a nutshell, the case on Antihero is that he's a skeezy poster who makes poorly justified reads and votes along with other fluffy and generally useless posts.

[yabbaguy]

Nobody likes the Chevre wagon, ckd. I mean, I've already put the stuff out there, she hasn't said much to add to that, and nobody's buying. :(

[PokerFace]

PokerFace, are you sure you're happy with your vote? Thought's on Spyrex?

Looking forward to hearing Antihero's opinions.

At the moment yes though i am considering looking into the antihero wagon. Iamusername's homework is good and it notes conections between antihero and chevre. I have noticed quite a few between dutch and chevre.

If there are multiple scum groups, I doubt they knew about each other, so scum would unlikly shoot xalxe for that reason. Either a vig hated xalxe or scum hated him. This is only a guess of course but werewolf probably was the vig target if there was one, leaving farside as xalxe's target and xalxe as the scum target. And given what DGB said and what i pointed out, I am really starting to consider an antihero, chevre, dutch pairing. Though I would expect a scum group in this setup to have more than 3 members. Not sure who else would be in a group like that

And yay i don't see the case on spyreX because i agree with him on a few things like dutch. Hense why i kinda want it outlined as i usually overlook those i agree with

[Weatherman]

My access still sucks; internet at home completely down and I'm gonna basically have to rely to late night visits in internet cafes for at least a week more to access mafiascum at all.

Happy with Antihero wagon!

GUYS (especially Kmd)
YOU ARE STILL USING THE NON-COMPLETE VOTECOUNT FOR WAGON ANALYSIS.
KK didn't post the final votecount at the lynch scene.
Final D1 recount:

Gorrad - 11 - iamausername, Cyberbob, DrippingGoofball, SpyreX, Antihero, inHimshallibe, yabbaguy, nocase, farside22, Dutch one, RedCoyote
werewolf555 - 3 - Chevre, Korlash, curiouskarmadog
Chevre - 2 - Seraphim, Xalxe
nocase - 2 - Gorrad, werewolf555
DrippingGoofball - 1 - Kmd4390
Antihero - 1 - Weatherman


For Korlash and RC (I don't think these debates are going to places right now) I will post the succint reply that since my first replacing in post the Dutch one has been up there in the town stratosphere for me and I'm confident enough about that to fight for him at this stage if needed.

A couple of notions: DGB, inHim, farside, the Dutch one are extremely non-mafia.

The whole noob/not noob thing is not very relevant. Korlash, he has stated that it is his first game here and it's obvious he's ignorant of the meta climate.

I'm so happy that iam is town.

SpyreX is scummy

No. I'm still happy with the Gorrad lynch and I'll take that gamble on risk-reward every time.
This one though wraps itself up all nice and clean.

SpyreX. Clarify what you meant with that last sentence please. The Dutch one "caught"?

The ohh shucks isn't a huge deal by itself.
Followed up with the "It is YOU, good sir" on PF is a dealbreaker.

If there's nothing to gain and one isn't trolling, noone in the game of mafia lies about something verifiable. I'm certain that even if I would be tragically wrong on the Dutch one, he would have had a genuine mixup of not remembering that Gorrad was on his „questionable“ list instead of his „scummy“ list. The dealbreaker then boils down to whether it is Dutch town going „you haven't read my posts and your vote seems opportunistic after yabba; vote pf“ or Dutch scum going „OMGOMGUS“
What do you see here that I don't? What is huge there?

[Chevre]

Pokerface, I voted for curiouskarmadog to begin today because I didn't have a solid starting point, and I felt he was slightly scummy before. I'm very convinced that Dutch one is scum; the way he alone defended me on Day 1 when it looked as if I was going to be lynched looked so much like scum buddying to town.

[Weatherman]

Oh yeah,

Well, I never thought he sounded that sincere. I thought Runner sounded even worse. What do you think of that?

I think nothing about it, really. I was too biased by my role pm to judge how his posts read to outsiders/pay too much attention to what he thought (I don't even remember his stances anymore).

I mean, if you're going to continue to push this idea that a person may only go after one target and it must be their biggest current scumread, then that's your prerogative. I'm guilty as charged of not subscribing to that policy. I'm a pragmatist and a realist. I realize that my reads aren't infallible, I realize that there are multiple scum, and I realize that you can't always get what you want in this game.

Iam already made the point well, but you didn't even try. Start of a day you cannot even know the positions of others; you automatically reverted to your second choice which is very weird in a situation where you basically start from scratch (second day, extremely early, first wagon just up after one day). That is not pragmatism, that is not when you compromize unless you're half-assed about what you're pushing.
I just checked your sitewide activity at the time; had you had serious posting in your other games while missing for the first 30 hours after thread opened D2 I would have absolutely gone for your throat for waiting out on a way to wiggle out of your hammer post statement. You were not on the site, though, so we'll see about the issue later.

[Kmd4390]

The case on Antihero seems to be a summary of his posting style. Spy is a much better lynch.

[Antihero]

The case on Antihero seems to be a summary of his posting style. Spy is a much better lynch.

Aren't you going to take a few pot shots at me first like everyone else?

The people who are crapping on my "fluffy posting" are the same people who were crapping on the werewolf wagon yesterday. If his posting wasn't fluffy and useless, I don't know whose is.

PokerFace, are you sure you're happy with your vote? Thought's on Spyrex?

Looking forward to hearing Antihero's opinions.

Anything in particular? I think I might have enough energy tomorrow to put something up, but it might have to wait until saturday.

[yabbaguy]

The case on Antihero seems to be a summary of his posting style

as scum

.

Don't you dare bastardize the case as something it isn't. FTFY.

[SpyreX]

If there's nothing to gain and one isn't trolling, noone in the game of mafia lies about something verifiable. I'm certain that even if I would be tragically wrong on the Dutch one, he would have had a genuine mixup of not remembering that Gorrad was on his „questionable“ list instead of his „scummy“ list. The dealbreaker then boils down to whether it is Dutch town going „you haven't read my posts and your vote seems opportunistic after yabba; vote pf“ or Dutch scum going „OMGOMGUS“
What do you see here that I don't? What is huge there?

I'm really not sure what the first part has to do with anything.

The response to PF calling him out on the Jeeper's Creepers with that vote is the key point.

As I said earlier, when you add to that nothing (and he IS around, as can be seen by the ??? response to my saying just that before) its busted and skating, hoping the winds will blow a different way.

[RedCoyote]

Are you voting Dutch because you think he is scumier than antihero or that he needs pressure right now? You kinda made simular remarks at antihero yesterday and voted elsewhere too. Basically why are you voting Dutch over hero when you seem to dislike hero more. If its just for pressure then do you plan to join the push for hero's death today?

And unless I'm still reading you wrong, did you say Dutch's reaction to the flips was worthless?

As username pointed out, people are more receptive to lynching Antihero today than I initially thought. Earlier in the game, both Korlash and DGB liked Antihero for town. Chevre almost never talks about Antihero (rest assured, if Antihero flips scum, my townChevre read is taking a nosedive. Rejoice, yabba.) inHim has had Antihero as solidly town this game. Kmd has had Antihero as solidly town. nocase, like Chevre, has had very little to say about Antihero as well.

Top this off with the fact that, outside of that horrible, horrible vote, I was really seeing Antihero as town myself.

So, I mean, that's half the game right there. Dutch, on the other hand, you can go back and find numerous instances of people suspecting him. I was probably going to start the day with an Antihero vote, but Dutch's post was extremely ugly, and, I saw no reason why he shouldn't have been criticized for it.

I don't understand your second question. No, Dutch's reactions are not worthless. Quite the opposite.

Something that just came to mind. DGB argues that the xalxe kill was a cross kill where scum wanted to kill scum. This would require 2 things. Scum knowing their are multiple groups and scum thinking xalxe is scum or wanting to get rid of xalxe to protect themselves. I don't think anyone had 2 out of those 3 reasons to kill xalxe.

What's your point?

---

Yes. The question is, why didn't you?

I'll concede that I underestimated how much Antihero hate there was, but I made it pretty clear that I am happy with either lynch. You and Weatherman need to get that through your heads.

---

what is the case on Anti-hero again? and why is this wagoning developing so fast for no apparent reason?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p2782843

---

At the moment yes though i am considering looking into the antihero wagon. Iamusername's homework is good and it notes conections between antihero and chevre. I have noticed quite a few between dutch and chevre.

I just noticed the same thing when I did some research for my response to your post 1080. You are probably town, PF.

Either a vig hated xalxe or scum hated him.

Well, duh. Who else would've shot him?

---

Start of a day you cannot even know the positions of others; you automatically reverted to your second choice which is very weird in a situation where you basically start from scratch (second day, extremely early, first wagon just up after one day). That is not pragmatism, that is not when you compromize unless you're half-assed about what you're pushing.

The only thing that really makes me nervous about you is how confident you sound. I mean, I agree that it was a good catch when Antihero voted Gorrad out of nowhere, by no means do I think that makes him obvious scum. You have to understand we have two entirely different interpretations on Dutch and, apparently, two entirely different interpretations on Antihero's post. We both think it's scummy, yes, but you have got it in your head that I'm trying to sneak a Dutch vote in out of nowhere, which is clearly not the case. I've

never

been fond of Dutch this game. On the other hand, I've had ups and downs with Antihero.

And you can keep pushing me on how I'm not being reasonable or prudent, but I will not apologize for using my vote as a tool.

---

The people who are crapping on my "fluffy posting" are the same people who were crapping on the werewolf wagon yesterday. If his posting wasn't fluffy and useless, I don't know whose is.

You abandoned it without reason! You never responded to me or Weatherman!

[Kmd4390]

Yabba, show me the difference. Show me some Antihero town games where he posts differently and show me how it's different.

[curiouskarmadog]

what is the case on Anti-hero again? and why is this wagoning developing so fast for no apparent reason?

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p2782843

not seeing a case there

can ya give me a couple points....and this goes for anyone CURRENTLY voting him.

[Cyberbob]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 8#p2746088
That's my summary of the case I did for DGB yesterday. Stuff's happened since then as well but it's a good foundation.

[RedCoyote]

Well, ckd, considering the fact he won't engage me on the point despite asking him twice and having it brought up at least four different occasions now isn't doing him any favors.

Additionally, do you think there was scum on the Gorrad lynch, and, if so, whom?

[DrippingGoofball]

Well, ckd, considering the fact he won't engage me on the point despite asking him twice and having it brought up at least four different occasions now isn't doing him any favors.

Additionally, do you think there was scum on the Gorrad lynch, and, if so, whom?

@ CKD

Just give us your partners.

[Korlash]

Weird made a post earlier that didn't show up... Oh well wasn't important then I guess.

Anywho, I'm devoting my current free time elsewhere But I feel it's important to make an appearance.

YOU ARE STILL USING THE NON-COMPLETE VOTECOUNT FOR WAGON ANALYSIS.

I believe it's a more accurate representation before half the WW decided to "cave in". Using the last vote count given before the actual lynch should show which "camp" everyone was actually in. You can use the actual final vote tally to see who switched sides at the end, but ultimately doing that you would still be focused on the people originally on the WW.

The whole noob/not noob thing is not very relevant. Korlash, he has stated that it is his first game here and it's obvious he's ignorant of the meta climate.

Yeah it isn't relevant, so people shouldn't be using it to explain away his actions. And I seem to remember him saying he has played "quite a few games" or however he phrased it, so I don't get what it being his first game here has to do with anything. I can get your "I'm confident enough about that to fight for him at this stage if needed" but it does seem like your slightly contradicting stuff here. 'His newbieness is irrelevant but I'm going to use it to defend him right here!'...

As I said earlier, when you add to that nothing (and he IS around, as can be seen by the ??? response to my saying just that before) its busted and skating, hoping the winds will blow a different way.

Oh don't start seemingly making sense now... I may have to unvote you...

[SpyreX]

Oh don't start seemingly making sense now... I may have to unvote you...

That'd be nice.

Because despite all this going on I'm still on the town side there and maybe you can help push this through. Sometimes we miss the forest for the trees and this is bordering on textbook.

[curiouskarmadog]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 8#p2746088
That's my summary of the case I did for DGB yesterday. Stuff's happened since then as well but it's a good foundation.

now this is actually a case...

but meh, still think that both Dutch and Chevre are scummy than Anti.

[curiouskarmadog]

scummier....