Mafia 125: Khan's Game of Mafia (Game Over)


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Post Post #1075 (ISO) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:21 pm

Post by RedCoyote »

Weatherman 1063 wrote:I'm not "excusing" him, I'm stating he sounded super sincere D1, and acted like a noob. noobness is independent of sincerety, but a trait how to categorize his behaviour (meta climate matters a huge amount so i don't care about 5 games on some other site).
Well, I never thought he sounded that sincere. I thought Runner sounded even worse. What do you think of that?
Weatherman 1063 wrote:Do you think Antihero would be the best lynch? Y/N please.
Yes. At the moment, I would say so, yeah.

I mean, if you're going to continue to push this idea that a person may only go after one target and it must be their biggest current scumread, then that's your prerogative. I'm guilty as charged of not subscribing to that policy. I'm a pragmatist and a realist. I realize that my reads aren't infallible, I realize that there are multiple scum, and I realize that you can't always get what you want in this game.
Weatherman 1063 wrote:"This first post of the day made 20 minutes after the opening of the thread is OBVSCUM and never could come from town's mouth because it's an inexperienced player blurting aloud the obvious and has no analysis or vote. No town would ever state the obvious! Instead it must be scum PRETENDING to do so to fit in. Why? Because it's just what the town thinks. Look, look, it's in the wiki!"
1.) It has nothing to do with being 20 minutes into the day or 20 days into the day. The content is absolute crap. You know it. I know it. Dutch knows it.
2.) This is the second time
you're
bring his experience into the game to defend him. I never said a word about his experience. If DGB had taken the positions Dutch has over this game and made a post like that, I'd have voted her.
3.) It's more than just "stating the obvious". There's no analysis, no vote, and no logical content involved there. It's a pure emotional reaction meant on conveying feelings of, I'd argue, false empathy. He wants to attempt to reinforce the idea that he's part of the town in a backhanded sort of way.
4.) I don't scumhunt based on the wiki. The logic is sound enough to stand on it's own. I've not referenced the wiki as my foundation.

---
Kmd 1074 wrote:Korlash, I believe that a Day 1 mislynch almost always contains multiple scums. Also, Gorrad was obvtown. Werewolf, not so much.
Oh, I agree. Antihero most certainly. One between DGB and Cyberbob is probably another, and I'm not really 100% on inHim or Spy either.
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Post Post #1076 (ISO) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:04 am

Post by iamausername »

Hey there's an open Wifi hotspot just about in range here so it turns out you don't all need to wait a week for my return. Rejoice.

Continuing where I left off...

Post #540: I don't think Korlash's case is as strong as he thinks it is here, but this post reads pretty strongly as town to me. I believe that he believes it.

Post #548: dutch one still town.

Post #562: Korlash now arguing for the sake of arguing, and making some incredibly dumb comments in the process. I think he might have accidentally unearthed something worthwhile though, the Xalxe/CKD stuff seems like there is a definite inconsistency going on from SpyreX.

Post #589: Now that the Chevre wagon has come to a sudden halt, Antihero returns to his contrived suspicion on werewolf, the most easy target money can buy.

Post #595: I'm glad I wasn't the only one taken aback by kmd randomly declaring the scumteam as the most experienced players here (give or take a farside, I guess). I'm really having trouble seeing how that statement could be born out of a town mindset.

Post #624: Antihero, Chevre, CKD and now RedCoyote all jumping on the werewolf wagon in quick succession. Boy, I can't imagine how I resisted that one.

Post #626: Dutch one I can understand, but nocase really should have known better.

Post #632: This makes so much sense that I'm still surprised it turned out to be wrong. It was probably the main reason I gave in and joined up with the Gorrad wagon, actually.

Post #677: Oh wait, yeah, Korlash voted SpyreX in #540, then in #562 he said "I don't think you're scummy, just being stupid", but continued voting for SpyreX, and here he reaffirms that SpyreX vote. What the hey?

Post #711: Strong opening statement from yabbaguy. I never saw what DGB saw in Jerbs, but from the looks of his replacement, she was right.

Post #716: There's something about "Correction:
You
are scum" that I find hilarious. I know it's straight up OMGUS, but he phrases it like he's reverting a Wikipedia edit.

Post #729: Hello guilty conscience speaking. Antihero takes a statement that says "The werewolf wagon is really, really lame. I bet it's heavy with scum." and takes it to be all about him, even though there were 7 other players in the wagon at the time, and DGB did not give any indication at any point that this comment was directed at Antihero.

Post #753: Interesting stuff going on with CKD around this point. He decides that werewolf is so scummy that it would be literally impossible for anyone to believe that werewolf was town without insider knowledge, and votes Xalxe on that basis... but then he misreads Xalxe's join date by a year and mistakenly believes him to be a raw noob, and therefore lets him off the hook for noobishness. While werewolf, the actual noob, still needs to die for his sins. It really doesn't make a lot of sense, but the way he lets Xalxe off is the first time CKD has appeared to show any concern about figuring out another players alignment in this game, and now I'm thinking it's possible that he's just really misguided town.

Post #813: Something really oily about this post. I am trying to put my finger on it but it just keeps slipping away.

Post #817: I didn't think I could be more interested in discovering the true identity of an alt than I was in knowing who roflcopter is, but then Weatherman comes along and calls me "one of the few greatest players of all times on mafiascum". Damn my narcissism.

also this post is town.

Post #897: Oh, but this righteous indignation feels totally genuine. Dammit people, town or scum, just pick one and stop flitting between the two.

Post #941: For real.

Post #958: Fucking finally. If I don't get an Antihero lynch on D2 after this, THERE WILL BE BLOOD.

Post #981: Hey DGB, you missed me in your list of players who suspected Xalxe D1. Also if you think scum were deliberately aiming for a cross kill when they shot him you are living in a fantasy world. I have never seen scum try to take out other scum on N1, and I severely doubt that you have either.

Post #985: This vote is unxpected and throws me off.

Post #991: Oh dear, SpyreX is scum, isn't he?

Post #1030: Weatherman bringing the fury. Fuck yeah.

Post #1038: Interested to know a) how CKD ends up any higher than Neutral, and b) how nocase and inhim end up in different sections when they've been largely indistinguishable in this game.

Post #1045: Chevre claims that her CKD vote was born out of confusion after her top suspect werewolf flipped town, and cites her massive L-1 "I'm gonna die here are my thoughts" post as evidence of previous suspicion of CKD. But that post pretty clearly lists her top four suspects, in order, as werewolf, Jerbs, dutch one, THEN CKD. So what changed to keep Chevre from voting Jerbs/Yabbaguy or Dutch one? Especially considering she reiterates her suspicion of dutch one now that a wagon has formed there, it seems to me that she was just voting CKD because other people had voiced suspicion of him.

Post #1072: This would make sense if people had been calling dutch one scummy prior to the werewolf flip, and changed their minds a result of it, but I for one have found dutch one to be noobtown through and through since well before I even had an opinion on werewolf.

Post #1075: RedCoyote, are you seriously suggesting that you are being "a pragmatist and a realist" by giving up on an Antihero lynch as a possibility after making NO FUCKING EFFORT WHATSOEVER to make one happen? Because I will cut you.

UPDATED SPECTRUM LOOKS LIKE THIS:

DrippingGoofball
Runner
Weatherman
Dutch one
Jerbs
yabbaguy
Cyberbob
inHimshallibe
nocase

Korlash
Seraphim
Xtoxm
Katsuki
PokerFace

Kmd4390
curiouskarmadog

SpyreX
RedCoyote
Chevre

Antihero
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Post Post #1077 (ISO) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:50 am

Post by RedCoyote »

I've made my peace with the fact that you'll never like my posts, username. You've clearly got a friend in Weatherman, and I wish you both the best. I'll tell you what I told him. If you want to push me on the basis of not focusing on one person, then so be it. I implore you to prove me wrong about the strength of an Antihero wagon, because I would be interested in seeing it gain steam and hopefully joining it. If Antihero ever starts posting, I'd of course be interested in poking him some. If it'd make you feel a little better, I'll reiterate the fact that I want to hear more from Antihero because I did not like his Gorrad vote at all.

With that said, I see something unsavory in Dutch, and I want to point it out. I have few ways of doing this other than my vote and my text. You and Weatherman have a real political issue with players using their vote this way. It's a reasonable issue, but not one I subscribe to. Yesterday I hammered Gorrad with my vote, not because I saw him as the most scummy, but because I saw no way of getting the werewolf wagon back to the forefront. I could've held out, but it so happened that I saw the Gorrad wagon as reasonable and was willing to move my vote there. I'm not trying to equate the situation here, but I do see both Dutch and Antihero as scummy, I do not see them as very far apart degree-wise, and I would like both of them to post more.
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Post Post #1078 (ISO) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:15 am

Post by DrippingGoofball »

I think I'm in love with post 1076.
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Post Post #1079 (ISO) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:46 am

Post by iamausername »

RedCoyote wrote:I implore you to prove me wrong about the strength of an Antihero wagon, because I would be interested in seeing it gain steam and hopefully joining it.
There are already three people voting for Antihero (Myself, Weatherman, DGB). In addition to these, you have the following:

RedCoyote - claims it is his #1 choice, votes elsewhere.
Cyberbob - claims it is his #1 choice, votes elsewhere

So that's five people who either are or ought to be voting Antihero, which just happens to be the same number of people as the number who would currently be voting dutch one if you put your vote in its rightful place.

In addition, just by isoing players and looking for the last time they mentioned Antihero, I can find several other players who are clearly, at the very least, not opposed to the idea of an Antihero wagon.

This is not a case of you being a pragmatist and a realist, and compromising on a second choice vote because no one is willing to go with your first choice. This is a case of you saying one thing and doing another.

QED.
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Post Post #1080 (ISO) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:53 am

Post by PokerFace »

To be honest Dutch, the main reason I decided to vote you today was your stance on gorrad. You reaction to the flips with no new analysis of who you do and do not suspect as a result are reasons I am still voting you. Your post just looked like an insincere reaction with no other purpose. I'd expect you to draw some conclusions from all that like how DGB wondered why xalxe died. What views do you have as a result of the flips? I asked you this earlier and am yet to get an answer. You only suspcion so far is let's go after PF since he went after me and i don't think he has read everything.

If Dutch flips scum I am thinking of going at chevre. There are a couple of things that link them and I will agree with yabba the time he took to claim was long, why did no one want his head just for that yesterday?

If Dutch flips town I am not sure where I will go. I will likly try to see who may have been unsincere while voting him or see hoped on what wagon with no reason. At the moment cheevre's vote seems most insincere like he is trying to get rid of dutch to protect himself later

@Chevre

Why did you vote CKD at the start of today? Why did you abandon that wagon and go after dutch? Is dutch scumier to you and why?

~~~~~

@RC

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p2790883
1. ok yes I did misread at onwe point. damn page breaks.
2. Yay I thought he was just surprised farside survived it while he got MKed for it elsewhere. Its up to interpretation. I was wondering if you were trying to make him look worse than he did. Either way I guess you are right it doesn't matter now
3. Anybody who anybody will tell you I am better at hiding what I am than finding what others are. I scumhunt better on later days as connections from one scum to another seem to help me best. I didn't think you had much of a scum read on gorrad back then and fact you go after antihero at the same time you vote gorrad kinda through me for a loop. Kinda what DGB said once. FOS the scumier one and vote another? felt like some kind of misdirection, though i severly doubt you and antihero would be buddies so I am not going to hype on that at the moment

Are you voting Dutch because you think he is scumier than antihero or that he needs pressure right now? You kinda made simular remarks at antihero yesterday and voted elsewhere too. Basically why are you voting Dutch over hero when you seem to dislike hero more. If its just for pressure then do you plan to join the push for hero's death today?

And unless I'm still reading you wrong, did you say Dutch's reaction to the flips was worthless?
RC wrote:If you want to analyze it, that's fine by me. Why was there no analysis? If you want to vote based on it, that's fine by me. Why was there no vote? It's just this pure, "Dang! They got our doctor... frowny face. But at least we nabbed that serial killer... happy face." It's the most basic type of psychological manipulation. You're trying to tell everyone that you feel just like they do, and it's okay. It's like a forced empathy. I mean, I don't want to sound like I know anything about psychology, I just call out worthless drivel when I see it. This particular worthless drivel was aimed at making Dutch seem like "part of the town" more than anything else that I can tell. Unless you can point me to someone analytical angle that I'm missing.

And later


1.) It has nothing to do with being 20 minutes into the day or 20 days into the day. The content is absolute crap. You know it. I know it. Dutch knows it.
~~~~~

@Korlash

how much do you suspect Dutch one if at all? Is it greater than you SpyreX suspicion? Why or why not? Also why do you think Spy is scum I think I missed that somewhere.

~~~~~

I think weatherman is town. Off reads i had earlier were likly when he was not caught up. I think I might know who's alt he is and if i am right he is town

Something that just came to mind. DGB argues that the xalxe kill was a cross kill where scum wanted to kill scum. This would require 2 things. Scum knowing their are multiple groups and scum thinking xalxe is scum or wanting to get rid of xalxe to protect themselves. I don't think anyone had 2 out of those 3 reasons to kill xalxe.

I'll read posts 1077+ later today. My break at work is about to end!
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Post Post #1081 (ISO) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:10 am

Post by PokerFace »

@kubla
Can we get a vote count?
Can you possibly explain how a "delayer" SK works
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Post Post #1082 (ISO) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:10 am

Post by PokerFace »

PokerFace wrote:
@kubla
Can we get a vote count?
Can you possibly explain how a "delayer" SK works
sorry for triple posting but I want this to be seen and thus bolded
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Post Post #1083 (ISO) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:50 am

Post by Korlash »

Poker wrote:@Korlash
how much do you suspect Dutch one if at all? Is it greater than you SpyreX suspicion? Why or why not? Also why do you think Spy is scum I think I missed that somewhere.
I believe, short term memory lose and all that, that dutch was number two back when I did my read up, which I guess would qualify him as "pretty suspicious". As far as Spy goes I don't like how he pretty much tunneled on Gorrad all day complaining about how no one was bothering to look at his "case" then when i did he walked away saying he didn't want to talk about it. In addition, his one brief stint off the Gorrad train was him jumping on Werewolf, which would technically put him on both wagons. All in all though it's mainly the tunnel/whine/refuse to discuss thing that makes my vote stick.
Poker wrote:sorry for triple posting but I want this to be seen and thus bolded
Again short term memory lose not withstanding, didn't KK give us his Role? I thought that pretty much explained it all.
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Post Post #1084 (ISO) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:56 am

Post by Korlash »

KMD wrote:Korlash, I believe that a Day 1 mislynch almost always contains multiple scums. Also, Gorrad was obvtown. Werewolf, not so much.
While I may disagree with some of what you said sir, I will defend to the death your right to say it. As long as it's behind closed doors away from the rest of us.

I never said that Gorrad's wagon (a.k.a. mislynch) didn't contain scum, I just said the WW wagon would be a better place to start, if only for the reasoning you just said.
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Post Post #1085 (ISO) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:57 am

Post by PokerFace »

ouch, not sure how i missed that explaination of his role earlier. I guess i skiped over it as i didn't expect we'd get all the info just like that. my bad yo

just want vote count then. I'll read 1077,8,9 shortly as my boss seems busy
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Post Post #1086 (ISO) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:08 pm

Post by yabbaguy »

Quickly: Flips include the role PM, PokerFace. ISO KK if you have to.
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Post Post #1087 (ISO) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:59 pm

Post by Kublai Khan »

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 9


"All mankind is divided into three classes: those that are immovable, those that are movable, and those that move. "
- Benjamin Franklin

Dutch one
- 5 - PokerFace, SpyreX, yabbaguy, RedCoyote, Chevre
SpyreX
- 2 - Korlash, Kmd4390
Antihero
- 3 - iamausername, DrippingGoofball, Weatherman
PokerFace
- 1 - Dutch one
Xtoxm
- 1 - nocase
curiouskarmadog
- 1 - Cyberbob
Chevre
- 1 - curiouskarmadog
Cyberbob
- 1 - inHimshallibe

Players not voting:
Antihero, Xtoxm


Notes/Prods
:
- iamausername is V/LA 14-21 (still?)
- Weatherman is V/LA until he(?) fixes his(?) internet connection problems
- @Pokerface: Delayer Serial Killer PM is here
- Prodding Antihero
- Current Deadline: Seeeeecret.
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Post Post #1088 (ISO) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:00 pm

Post by yabbaguy »

Actually, I'll bend. I'm looking into Dutch, and while he is perhaps an extremely disagreeable player, I've noticed his voting patterns actually seem to be pretty Town motivated. It's odd how he goes to FoS DGB several thousand times after the first, but my mind's split now considering that consistency. Still niggling me are those points about how he's committed both blatant "That Sucks" and "Appeal to Emotion", but the latter ain't a scumtell and the former, I have to realize, I haven't much of an idea as to its reliability. Does anyone have more of an insight on the "That Sucks" tell?

I'm looking at the next one down, Antihero. It could be- I know he's even more of a saucy character when he draws a scum role- about the level he's at now. The thing is, I want to do my game plan again, and Chevre's not that far below.

So it's
FoS: Antihero
. But...

Unvote, Vote: Chevre


...why did this wagon fall apart at the end of D1 anyway?
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Post Post #1089 (ISO) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:16 pm

Post by DrippingGoofball »

yabbaguy wrote:Does anyone have more of an insight on the "That Sucks" tell?
It does help distinguish players that have read the wiki, from those that haven't.
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Post Post #1090 (ISO) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:52 pm

Post by Gorrad »

To those who killed me before I posted my epic post, I have but one thing to say.

UP YOURS, TREBEK!

Bah.
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Post Post #1091 (ISO) » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:04 pm

Post by RedCoyote »

Alright, username. You did your homework.

Unvote
;
vote: Antihero


The lynch may proceed.
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Post Post #1092 (ISO) » Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:17 am

Post by iamausername »

Kublai Khan wrote:- iamausername is V/LA 14-21 (still?)
Hopefully not, but it's kind of tempramental. I wouldn't be surprised if it suddenly dropped out entirely, it did for several hours last night.
RedCoyote wrote:Alright, username. You did your homework.
Yes. The question is, why didn't you?
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Post Post #1093 (ISO) » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:35 am

Post by Xtoxm »

PokerFace, are you sure you're happy with your vote? Thought's on Spyrex?

Looking forward to hearing Antihero's opinions.
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Post Post #1094 (ISO) » Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:13 am

Post by Cyberbob »

Alright, ugh - finally got a solid chunk of time to post.

CKD pressure thing is generating disappointingly slim results and my single vote isn't especially likely to produce any further data, so back to my original intention I guess. Reasons same as yesterday, etc etc. He hasn't posted anything since then that's really altered my stance on him in any materially significant way.
Unvote, Vote: Antihero

RedCoyote wrote:Alright, username. You did your homework.

Unvote
;
vote: Antihero


The lynch may proceed.
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Post Post #1095 (ISO) » Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:26 am

Post by inHimshallibe »

lolololol

Cyberbob and yabbaguy all over the map. Who did yabba replace? Were they town before?

Let's kill

yabbaguy (Pending)
Cyberbob
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Post Post #1096 (ISO) » Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:40 am

Post by nocase »

fucking. infuriating

seraphim commits scum tells of volcanic proportions and then xtoxm makes a triumphantly lackluster appearance, promises content, and then lurks. and yes, for the total morons out there, "and then lurks" entails that he has not followed up with content.

i am toying with the idea that there are two scum teams and that both targeted farside22. if this is the case then ckd is a bad guy.
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Post Post #1097 (ISO) » Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:45 am

Post by inHimshallibe »

OH CHRIST YABBA REPLACED JERBS.

Well, a pass from me for now.

I'm fine with Xtoxm as well.
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Mod of the continuing World of Warcraft Dungeon Run series
:

Mini 1135 - Mafia in the Deadmines
Mini 1208 - Mafia in the Scarlet Monastery
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Post Post #1098 (ISO) » Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:10 am

Post by yabbaguy »

inHim, I will change my mind all I damn well please anyway. There's a tell for changing one's mind too often (hopping) and too little (tunnelling). Therefore, it stands to reason that I am allowed to change my mind a reasonable amount of times. There isn't even a quota- it's just if I swap at a time that doesn't seem Town. If I do that, *then* go after me.

I'm willing to bet you knew that already somewhere in your mind.

@nocase: Multi-Mafia and a Serial Killer? Run me through that, I don't find the likelihood of that high at all.

---

Fiiiiiiiiine, I'll revert.

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and probably a 4th, but I'm not sure.
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Post Post #1099 (ISO) » Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:18 am

Post by Cyberbob »

inHimshallibe wrote:lolololol

Cyberbob and yabbaguy all over the map. Who did yabba replace? Were they town before?

Let's kill

yabbaguy (Pending)
Cyberbob
"oh hey my first preference for a lynch is antihero, just want to put a bit of pressure on ckd for now though and see what happens"
"ok well that's not working out very well, back to plan A then"

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