Mini 1106 - No Exit Mafia

AntB · Post Post #700 (ISO) » Sun Feb 13, 2011 1:57 pm

I lol severly.
VOTE: Dark Horse
--

Dark Horse wrote:[...] asking nothing more than questions

--

AntB wrote:[Dark Horse's main point in brief about his cases] The Jester: He plays the n00bcard

Dark Horse wrote:ANt, theres more that i've said against jester.

AntB wrote:Clarify for me, what is your main point, in brief against jester?
I'm aware theres a lot more, but I want your strongest point in brief.

Dark Horse wrote:It's his noobcard

VasudeVa · Post Post #701 (ISO) » Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:11 pm

hi. I think I'm replacing ZaZier. Reading and thoughts soon-ish.

Seacore · Post Post #702 (ISO) » Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:15 pm

VasudeVa replaces ZazieR. I decided not to wait since Vas was kind enough to offer and ZazieR has been absent for a week. Thanks Vas!

Also, a friend of mine was watching this game and pointed out the one problem with my set up. Which is that if a member of the scum team is flaking, the scum team will be unable to successfully make a kill. To remedy this, if a member of the scum team is in a position to be replaced during the Night phase, their vote will not be required for unanimity. However, if I detect scum flaking deliberately to make this happen, my wrath will be mighty.

Apologies is people feel this skews the game unfairly, we can discuss it in post game.

Ghostlin · Post Post #703 (ISO) » Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:49 pm

Dark Horse wrote:It's his noobcard

This is an burden of experience, which is a lot like a burden of proficiency argument. Unless you're making this your only case that he plays the n00bcard, in which case this isn't. A case, really.

Darox · Post Post #704 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:28 am

You know, instead of making snippy comments and not really pushing anything on DH, you could start not being useless and vote him.

Ghostlin · Post Post #705 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:54 am

Hrm. Has anyone else read DH in iso lately? It's kinda interesting. There are a number of passive aggressive posts, such as "/not chainsaw defending", and "So what are you going to do? Start a bandwagon on me." an interesting gem where he deflects pressure off of DGB. He asks for a character claim, which would have been interesting if we had gotten distinct flavor in each ones, but from what I'm seeing more and more from flips it is either "superspy" or probably for scum "henchman": I don't see anything to support DGB's observation there must be a way to get us out of the cages, and frankly, it wouldn't surprise me if everyone was revelatively minimalist vanilla. The reason I say THAT is scum need a majority to lynch, and can't talk with each other to guide each other's play.

He accuses Jester of playing the n00bcard, but yet ignores the ignorance in setup that DGB displays. "Twice doctor protected" my ass.

Contradicts himself sorta by continuing to alternate that there's more he's said about Jester (no, you've not, really you've focused and tunneled on the n00bcard most of the game). And then the information you wanted to hear post is just...no. Come on, you couldn't have just told him what he wanted to know?

A lot of his posts are sparse to the point of being unuseful and mostly argumentive against what others have said.

I don't disagree with this wagon, and I find it likely if DH is scum, DGB could be his partner.

Unvote.

Vote: DH

Thor665 · Post Post #706 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:05 am

Agggh, Ghostlin is supporting the DH wagon ::mind melts::

@Ghostlin - as much as I am super happy for your support, could you clarify the DGB connection you're using to damn DH here. Are they both separately scummy, or is there a chain connection you're using to damn them together. Pretty much every part of the case you presented on DH has ties in to DGB and that is worrying the ever lovin' smurf out of me right at the moment. Clarification?

LimMePls · Post Post #707 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:10 am

Thor665 wrote:
The Jester wrote:Thor, you replaced veridis. AntB is still in this game.
To-may-toe to-mah-toe, let DH bumble through his own little scum accusation on his own, I see little reason to help him - though find it hillarious he's calling me out for being veridis and then spends the bulk of that paragraph digging into AntB - lulz.

Only really great thing in last few pages.

Like Zaz less and LMP more.

So now we're caught up to game state and have a lot of suspects and, thanks to fail scum (to tag team with fail town) still plenty of lynch attempts to work through.

Vote: Dark Horse

Seriously now, why didn't this wagon happen yesterday?

LMP is town.
Darnox is town.
Palmer is town.

Undecided on most of the rest of you people whom I hate in horrible ways but I could happily lynch a couple of you, secondary preference is probably still Ghostlin but I could actually go for Ant the lurker, though if people want that one they better explain some sort of brilliance about how DH isn't scum first.

Thor, I'm liking what I'm seeing so far, but I wasn't hot on your slot. Please help me understand why Palmer is town. He doesn't look like it to me at all.

Thor665 · Post Post #708 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:22 am

@LynchMePls - asked in a vacuum it can be hard to say since it's basically asking me to justify a negative, but my general feel is that he was scumhunting, I agreed with what he said, and he was an occasional relaxing beacon of sanity in the rest of the thread. Also, look at those ridonkulous catchup posts he did mid yesterday while catching up and with no real wagon pressure on himself. Yeah, I could buy scum going through that much work if their neck was in the noose and they were like "crappity-crap, gotta look town - WALL POST FYI!" but instead he does a catchup post that is basically far more work then I'd ever do even for a fresh replace in.

What's the case on him for scum in your eyes?

LimMePls · Post Post #709 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:00 am

Thor665 wrote:@LynchMePls - asked in a vacuum it can be hard to say since it's basically asking me to justify a negative, but my general feel is that he was scumhunting, I agreed with what he said, and he was an occasional relaxing beacon of sanity in the rest of the thread. Also, look at those ridonkulous catchup posts he did mid yesterday while catching up and with no real wagon pressure on himself. Yeah, I could buy scum going through that much work if their neck was in the noose and they were like "crappity-crap, gotta look town - WALL POST FYI!" but instead he does a catchup post that is basically far more work then I'd ever do even for a fresh replace in.

What's the case on him for scum in your eyes?

There's no need to justify a negative or view this as looking in a vacuum. I put out a huge massive wall-o-case on him, he countered with a wall-o-defense, and I recountered with a wall-o-shred-your-wall-o-defense. So there are specific points of mine that you could refute if you think he's town.

Thor665 · Post Post #710 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:31 am

Link if you'd like me to, I'm happy to give it a whirl.

Ghostlin · Post Post #711 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:35 am

Thor665 wrote:Agggh, Ghostlin is supporting the DH wagon ::mind melts::

@Ghostlin - as much as I am super happy for your support, could you clarify the DGB connection you're using to damn DH here. Are they both separately scummy, or is there a chain connection you're using to damn them together. Pretty much every part of the case you presented on DH has ties in to DGB and that is worrying the ever lovin' smurf out of me right at the moment. Clarification?

Only that DGB has claimed repeated times DH is town. DH has ignored some of the more...suspect aspects of DGB's play and vice versa. I think the connection is likely. However; the most revelant points here that should be focusing on is the fact that really, DH has not really come up with cases, more like one liners. His case against Jester doesn't really track: I could see voting certain aspects of Jester's anti-town play, but saying 'he's playing the n00bcard' too often is akin to a BoP argument and is in essence a dead end; he could be town, he could be scum. Most of his time is spent defending himself and not building on whatever cases he has on others. This play is what I'm voting him for. His accusation against the Darox strawman argument almost seems like he wanted to deflect onto Darox after the Xalxe lynch rereading it: Darox is guilty of many things but not letting town know what he thinks apparently isn't on that list.

I'm saying a link probably exists, and it should be something we investigate going into Day 4.

LimMePls · Post Post #712 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:02 am

Thor665 wrote:Link if you'd like me to, I'm happy to give it a whirl.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p2783352

palmertrou · Post Post #713 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:09 am

Okay, so I'm back now. I've read through and am up to date. I just need to go back and see what needs addressing.

LMP wrote:And hey look, a convenient V/LA from palm after he is coming under scrutiny. We haven't sen that before.

Sorry I didn't send you a postcard from London. I suppose I could send you a picture of my travel card for the tube but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't even buy that.

Thor665 · Post Post #714 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:29 am

LynchMePls wrote:Here are my points against him:

palmetrou wrote:I really don't like this jester speculation, it really muddy's the thread and clear lines of thought. IMO if someone is acting scummy and they are lynch flipped as jester then that's just crappy luck.

Just for clarification though, town can still 'win' if a jester is lynched right?
If he doesn't like the jester speculation, THEN WHY IS HE ENGAGING IN IT! Read the first bit. Then read the second. If he thinks the jester speculation is bad, why does he ask the question "just for clarification". This is COMPLETELY ILLOGICAL and looks to be trying to push the jester talk further while distancing from it at the same time. SCUMMY.

palmetrou wrote:There is a differance between a day 1 lynch and a day 1 wagon. Why do you group the two?

The more wagons we can fit in a day the more information we get as long as the wagons have lynch potential (no pressure otherwise). This ends with a lynch. I think that early wagons aren't as pressurising as wagons at the latter stages of the day. The biggest early wagons are generally the same wagons at the end of the day though.
Pure IIOA that does nothing to move the game forward. More posting from palmetrou that is actively trying to 'look town'.

palmertrou wrote:
@ mod; Does town lose if a jester is lynched?
- this is all we need to know about jesters. End of jester discussion.
Again, for someone who doesn't like the jester speculation, we have MORE JESTER SPECULATION. This is twice now that, after palmetrou claims to not like the jester talk palm goes on to ACTIVELY STIR UP AND KEEP THE JESTER TALK GOING.

DrippingGoofball wrote:
palmertrou wrote:
DGB wrote:palmetrou is scum, for the entirety of his
oeuvre
.
What? Because I want you to answer questions I've asked of you from like 3/4 pages ago? Not just mine either. If anyones name should be in this statement it's you or/and Vezo.
No, because of every single one of your posts. Do you want me to go through them one by one?
@DGB: Remember this? Palm completely lurked himself away from this. You should go back and reread this time period and then palm's play from this point.

vezo wrote:Palmetrou is trying to push cases on easy lynches. Somehow he doesn't say anything about DH even if he could accuse him of being scum with DGB. I.E. He doesn't care who he is trying to lynch. He is just trying to lynch someone.

unvote
vote palmetrou
This was a 100% correct interpretation of palm's play to this point in the game. You should all go back and read it.

palmetrou wrote:also, what is meant by cults? Does that mean masons?
Palm claims to not like jester speculation (but engages in it anyways) AND THEN, when under pressure (from DGB and vezo) starts CULT SPECULATION!? WTF!???!?! ARE YOU PEOPLE READING THIS!?

palmetrou wrote:Things are moving in a way I don't quite understand yet. I've been away for a while without knowing I would be. I kinda get why DGB thinks Vezok be town though. RW and Veridis are pinging my scumdar that weren't really pinging it before. Goofball seems likely town (or more likely town to be more accurate) even though I have issues with how she's playing. Xalxe and Dark horse (maybe ghostlin) seem most town although I haven't written anyone off yet and I don't think anyone should before a flip. Seems non-sensical to me.

Will re-read and possibly look at a couple of peeps in more detail tomorrow but in the meantime: Unvote
Note the "being away a while" reference. Do you know what this leaves out? That the being away a while came CONVENIENTLY when people started calling palm scum. And palm lurked it away, and deadline pressures turned the town towards Xalxe mislynch.

I don't find the jester talk trying to end it/still stirring it to be scummy. I'll agree he tried to end it poorly, but he was also the only voice asking to end it. What scum gain was there exactly? Freaking town out and making them unfocused? Mission was achieved before and after these events without jester discussion.

You tag him once for IIOA - I submit he doesn't do it much and his ratio when compared to players like AntB or Ghostlin is competitive or superior to. Let's not even get into the player who were just slacking off, at least he was attempting to talk about things that were currently going on.

What do you see as the change in palm's play from before DGB mocked his 'whole posting content' to after she did? You accuse him of something and ask DGB to do the legwork on it. ::shrug::

Vezo's point on palmer may or may not be correct. Help my lynch DH though, because for vezo's point to be correct DH has to be scum *and* palmer has to be his buddy avoiding him. Like so many vezo cases it's misfocused - this is a scumtell on DH if anyone.

The cult speculation *start* is unfair to toss at palmer because someone else brought it up and he continued it. Also, it lacks even the hypocrisy value of your earlier jester tell on him because he never suggested it was bad to theorize about cults (not that I really think he's doing so, as this was a one off in response to someone else bringing it up) This tell looks like you're just trying to paint everything he does as scummy, you're working too hard even if he is scum.

I'll concede the lurk away was potentially strategic. It was also potentially just lurking away via flaking. Considering he had a lurk away on Day 2 when he wasn't under pressure I tend to suspect the latter - but that defense is obligatorily thin due to the nature of this type of tell.
-------------------------------------------------------

Overall I see some aspects to your case, but it mostly looks like a skeleton with some extra bits lobbed at for thickness and I'm just not seeing it as remotely as sturdy as you are. I think the worst is the vezok bit which is really a case on DH, not palmer at all. Half of the rest are tells I just don't see as scumtells.

Thor665 · Post Post #715 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:30 am

Woof - sorry, I messed up the spoiler tags that were going to help hide the giant and ugly quote wall. But be amazed by my mysterious black boxes that should be spoiler tags;

OoooooOOOOOOooooWEEEEEooooo.

Seacore · Post Post #716 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:46 am

Vote count 3.5

palmertrou (1) -

LynchMePls

The Jester (2) -

Dark Horse, DrippingGoofball

Dark Horse (4) -

Darox, Thor665, AntB, Ghostlin

Not voting (3) - The Jester, VasudeVa, palmertrou

With 10 alive, 6 votes are needed for the lynch

Deadline countdown viewable here.

The Jester · Post Post #717 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:57 pm

Ghostlin wrote:Hrm. Has anyone else read DH in iso lately? It's kinda interesting. There are a number of passive aggressive posts, such as "/not chainsaw defending",

Spoiler:

Ghostlin wrote:and "So what are you going to do? Start a bandwagon on me." an interesting gem where he deflects pressure off of DGB.

Spoiler:

More later.

VasudeVa · Post Post #718 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:13 pm

Well that was a horrible 29 pages.

Lesee what I got here:

Town

VasudeVa

->obv.

LynchMePls

->Former buddy intuition. Didn't see him make this much effort when we were scumbuddies, and we were rollin' that game.

DrippingGoofbal

l ->If she's scum, Townies would have been NK'd. She's the queen bee that keeps the scum hive together. No NKs = DGB Town.

Ghostlin

->Seeing some genuine effort from him, I liked his spot on the Jester wagon. If Jester flips scum, he'd be greenified here.

Dark Horse

-> Reads like scummy Town.. too unfocused to be scum FMPOV. Scum act like they have buddies, he doesn't. Not too confident on this though.

Thor

-> veridis was Townie sounding, as is Thor. Their actions have to speak for themselves though.

Darox

-> vezok hammerrer. Also on both mislynches, he finds his way to slink into wagons.

AntB

-> His play is too reactive, much like I'd expect from scum. Also on both mislynches.

The Jester

->Was the leading wagon until a magical counterwagon appeared on vezok(flippedTown). Very suspicious.

palmertrou

-> Was attacking DH(an easy mislynch, FMPOV), then was the swing vote toward the vezok lynch. He also forced my dumb gullible predecessor onto this lynch.

Scum

AntB, palmertrou, Darox, The Jester. I ain't voting outside this block. Probably the scum team right here. There have been very very weird movements between these four, as outlined in my list ^.

vote: palmertrou

VasudeVa · Post Post #719 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:14 pm

Whoever the fuck is voting for DH, Unvote or FACE MY WRATH.

Darox · Post Post #720 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:20 pm

I hope you've got a better excuse than "vezok hammerer", because vezok is a joke and killing him is practically always a good thing.

VasudeVa · Post Post #721 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:22 pm

Baw, but if a giant counterwagon appears when an L-1 wagon is one somebody, I have every right to be suspicious of the counter wagoners especially if the counterwagon flipped Town.

Darox · Post Post #722 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:42 pm

I wasn't actually on either wagon and have been pushing Dark Horse since day one, but sure, picking vezok over Jester makes me scum.

DrippingGoofball · Post Post #723 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:42 pm

Hey VV is town.

Thor665 · Post Post #724 (ISO) » Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:25 pm

@VV

palmer is scummy because Jester was going to be lynched and then palmer helped make it VV who was lynched - vote palmer!

^^^
This is vezok logic all over again, this only makes sense if Jester is town, why do you want to lynch palmer over Jester if palmer is scummy because he helped reverse a lynch on Jester? Am I a raving idiot here or are you? Please let me know.