Open 276- Friends and Enemies Mafia (OVER)

[Fate]

K NobodyScum. At least I'm useful to Town and post things of substnce.


Anyway, like I said, Hoopla needed to out her buddy anway to be believed. I didn't want real town masons countering her so I made her claim a buddy.

That's pretty much all it comes down to. The messin with Hoopla stuff was what took place betweeen me asking for a hammer, then saying "why the fuck not" and ccing a claimed mason.

[Fate]

Hey Hoopies. Tell them how town I am kthx

[Hoopla]

@Hoopla: I get that you want to use today to scumhunt for scum #3, but there is no reason why we can't do that, come to some conclusion on who that person is, and then lynch Fate? Tomorrow the remaining mason can be sure to herd the town towards the agreed upon lynch. AND, if Fate were just being dumb and VT, we'd be getting the mislynch over with now, not having it bite us in the ass at some later date.

In other words, why not lynch Fate today?

If you believe Fate is confirmed scum, here are the differences between the two days;

Day 3:

Hoopla
Andrew

Fate

Battousai
AlmasterGM
Albert B. Rampage
LynchMePls
Debonair Danny DiPietro
Nobody Special

Day 4:

Hoopla/Andrew

Battousai
AlmasterGM
Albert B. Rampage
LynchMePls
Debonair Danny DiPietro
Nobody Special

~~

This is one less mason we have to direct the lynch tomorrow, when the suspect pool is

exactly

the same. I refuse to accept Fate being a VT and fucking this game over as a possible option, because not even he is that fucking stupid and disrespectful.

[Fate]

Hoopla don't be dense. I don't throw my life away when I'm scum, its far too valuable.

I haven't fucked anything over. I just didn't believe you mason claim and needed your buddy to confirm before I believed your play was that bad.

[Nobody Special]

Whatever.

unvote

RAGE.

This fucking game.

[Fate]

I'm gonna laugh my ass off if Hoopla is making a mega post game analysis with me as confirmed scum in it.

[Hoopla]

I'm arguing from the perspective of Fate-scum. There are 6 players who could take up the third scum slot;

Battousai
AlmasterGM
Albert B. Rampage
LynchMePls
Debonair Danny DiPietro
Nobody Special

Sadly, of the bunch, I think

Nobody Special

is least likely to be this scum. I have several theories; the first is, I don't think Fate would have thrown the game away by outing himself if Nobody Special was the last scum. He's played an underwhelming game, rarely contributing and generally being on the outskirts of everyone's radar. Elmo in particular was suspicious of Nobody Special on Day 1 and throughout our chat in QT on Night 1, as were several other townies - why would Fate leave his chances of winning in the hands of Nobody Special?

The second consideration is Nobody Special's hammer on Empking. Surely in a hypothetical scumteam with Fate/Empking/NS, there would have been talk on night 1 that if one were to get in trouble, claim mason to either survive or (hopefully) out a mason. Although Empking's fate was virtually sealed once he picked up several quick votes, NS's hammer was brazen and out of the blue, and certainly doesn't read like a last-minute bus.

Thirdly, Nobody Special jumped ship to Empking's wagon late on Day 1 (off of me), to take Empking ahead 5-4 over parknourie. Both were perfectly viable wagons, with no shortage of excuses to get on either - why take the option of bussing Empking? Sure, it turned out that parknourie was lynched in the end, but NS couldn't have predicted that. His single vote tipping the scales Empking's way greatly improved his chances of getting lynched, and I don't think NS is that cagey, especially when his voting pattern prior to jumping on Empking showed bussing wasn't a plan at the forefront of scum's priorities. I think these three tells are individually enough to compensate (and then some) for his seemingly scummy, and certainly lacklustre play. I wouldn't waste one of our lynch chances on NS.

The way Empking's wagon spiralled to L-1 so quickly (on Day 2), and with little to no competition is remarkable for a scum lynch. It suggests scum had a significant hand in this play - Fate was aided unconditionally by his lackey Nacho, which made his wagon influence more concentrated than usual, and slightly obfuscates the typical make-up of the wagon needed to explain what happened. I

could

quite easily see a second scum on this lynch wagon (when ordinarilly it is unlikely), only because the precedent was set so strongly the day before - but lets look at that final vote count;

parknourie

(7):

andrew94, Hoopla

, Newbie2010, flinter,

Empking

, Albert B. Rampage,

parknourie

Empking

(5):

Fate

,

Nachomamma8

, Debonair Danny DiPietro,

Elmo, Nobody Special

Nobody Special

(1): Dafish

This is a strong town tell for

DDD

, because if he were scum it means parknourie's wagon still managed to beat out Empking with two scum bussing a buddy. Despite parknourie's wagon needing one less player to lynch him due to his self-hammer, it's still a lot more likely scum were nursing a park-vote, given how much ammo was readily available for the Andrius wagon. It's a completely subjective judgement in determining how scummy/deserving a particular player was of their votes, but I fail to believe two scum sitting on Empking is the cause of that final equation. This result is particularly indicative of two-scum on park, given the other competing wagon was scum and was pushed incredibly hard by another scum.

If I'm right about two scum on parknourie's wagon, it whittles it down to three,

Battousai

,

LMP

and

ABR

. Of the three, I'm most suspicious of LMP and Battousai. I'll elaborate on this soon, but I have other things I want to do. I won't be lynching DDD or NS, though.

[LimMePls]

@Hoopla: Suppose we follow your play, don't lynch Fate today, and the person we lynch today flips town. What do we do tomorrow? If the answer, as I suspect, is "lynch Fate", then I still don't understand why we don't just DO THAT TODAY! If it's "keep hunting Fate-buddy" I don't see how that situation is better than D4 sans Fate.

@Everyone else: I'd love some other comments on this. Am I the only one who doesn't get this?

[LimMePls]

BTW, I accept that if we lynch non-Fate scum today then Hoopla's play is great. I just don't understand how it's better given that we may not lynch scum.

[Nobody Special]

LMP, I don't get it either.

[Fate]

LOL ILL TAKE THT CARD NOW

[AlmasterGM]

YESSSSSS.

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.

FATE. Why did you pull a gambit claim and steal all my glory? Your lynch was supposed to be MINE. MINE. MINE.

Anyway, Hoopla - remember that other game where you did all that VCA and said it strongly pointed to me being town? And then I was scum and won the game because of it?

[Fate]

AGM damn, I was just about to make a post predicting you would come in here and foam at the mouth for my lynch

[AlmasterGM]

Unfortunately you were a tad late.

Anyway, even if you are town just DOING IT FOR THE LULZ, the LULZ would be much greater once you flip and Hoopla's analysis gets a giant pie thrown at it.

However, that is not happening because you are not town. Ba-dum-ba-dum.

[Fate]

AGM and Hoopla are the only ones justififed in voting me today (see: Yesterday's "reasons" for suspecting me) everyone else is voting me for countering a claimed mason which is HORSESHIT.


The scum motivation for such a move is so null and worthless it isn't transparent.

AGM you aren't familiar with my scum meta as you should be. I THOUGHT Hoopla was just pushing my lynch for political reasons while knowing I was town, but doing a faulty as fuck analysis of the game shows she REALLY doesn't know hwo to read me.

My scum meta: Surviving. Surviving, killing off people who suspect me, surviving, playing a safe VT game.

No gambits.

AGM-This should be obvious in DEFCON mafia, where I base the scumteam strategy around ME living to endgame. The battleship protecting me always, the endgame plan involging ME in lylo with Mina and Faraday.

ME.

Hoopla, in Ellie's mafia, by far my best one, I power bussed and when I bussed

they got lynched

None of this parknourie bullshit. If I were scum I woulda LYNCHED Andrius D1 and yelled at his ass in the qt to NEVER fucking play with me again, and if he ever rolled scum with me to replace out before he fucking posts. His play was that bad and THATS why the wagon was so easy to build, though your analysis may point to DDD as a busser (I thought he was a mason myself). Sidetracked-Ellie mafia all I cared about was MY PLAY and MY SURVIVAL. I coulda made some gambit where I had gotten Spy lynched a day or two earlier or something, but I DONT GAMBIT AS SCUM. Never. Never have. And I CERTAINLY wouldn't fucking start with a "hey lets coutnerclaim a confirmable town role. Yeah. I'll do that" thats fucking MORONIC scumplay, and I am not a bad scum player.

There's NO REASON to suicide myself just for you to out your third buddy, which town would've likely made you do anyway considering I WOULDNT have let you get off lynch without proving it, assuming that the real masons were debating a CC. Besides, if I WERE to trust another player to make it to endgame, it would certainly ONLY be ABR, and using that logic would get him lynched (9p alive right? yeah) pretty easily by PoE. BUt theres a paradox, if I were scum with

ABR

a player I looked forward to playing with, I would never in a fucfking million years pull such a terrible gambit, because I'd want him to respect me as a scumbuddy and peer. This town gambit however? I think its fairly justified and care little for how people judge my town gambits, because if they judged them and knew them well they could predict them, which defeats the point.

[Fate]

Unfortunately you were a tad late.

Anyway, even if you are town just DOING IT FOR THE LULZ, the LULZ would be much greater once you flip and Hoopla's analysis gets a giant pie thrown at it.

However, that is not happening because you are not town. Ba-dum-ba-dum.

Yeah, but that would also ruin my streak of not getting lynched as town outside of LyLo, I mean hell in this game I'm not going to count it ANYWAY because fakeclaiming mason is suicide and I knew as much, but it'd still be nice to have a clean record.

[Fate]

That was in reference to the why "the LULZ would be much greater" Is not appealing to me. Those LULZ will already be had once this game is over as Hoopla already analyzed the game without my townflip considered. Hell even

I

the great tunneler (who was so fucking right) took a step back and analyzed Empkingtown, for fucks sake.

[Fate]

Please hammer.

There are two minutes in between these quotes. During which, the gears in my head are saying: "hmmmm there's a chance I could be wrong about Hoopla and she's town. Claiming mason as VT would REALLY be fucking bad then. But she's more likely scum and I want the glory of stopping her from outing real masons.... Ah nacho, this one's for you, fuck it:

I am a mason, and Hoopla is not in my qt.

Hammer at will.

That should be clear to you all, that I took time to decide and make this a gambit. That I was looking at this from a town point of view. I don't even know what I would've thought as scum at this point (here's a hint: I WOULDNT have outed myself for no fucking reason). Likely what I would've done is rage for Hoopla to confirm her claim with a partner based on who she tried to deflect a wagon from scum not one but TWO consecutive fuckin days.

[Fate]

Actually, unless Hoopla takes her head out of her ass and analyzes the game with my flip, then lynch me first.

This way you don't make a misinformed HERPDERP lynch on a supposed "third" scumbuddy that doesn't fucking exist and then wind up tomorrow lynching me and then having TWO scum after that to catch. (by then it will be 9-2, 7-2=5p LyLo bitches) assuming that we don't hit scum today (which we likely won't with all these clowns shouting WHO IS FATES BUDDY? WHO IS FATES BUDDY?)

Balls in your court Hoopla. Either declare this is a policy lynch on me, declare you are unable to read me any further, or work out that I'm very, very, likely town given my train of thought this game and my suicidal gambit and my easy to read (your quote, not mine) play. But don't go lynching third scums when you don't have two caught yet.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I think we should consider the possibility the Fate is town.

[Fate]

analyses the game with me as town** it should say.

Be back later.

If you lynch me while I'm gone I'll say I'm suspicious of NobodySpecial for reasons I said earlier (his hammer on Empking is scummy, he's more likely to do that as scum anyway given the way he self-hammered when I was scum with him. Aka hes NOT good at optimal scumplay), and DDD just by sheer manner of PoE and his complete lurky-nonmason play.

LMP's reaction to Hoopla's claiming of andrew is TOWNTOWN, Batt's "I wanna PL Fate but DAMMIT HES TOWN I KNOW IT AND LMP AND ABR ARE SCUM" I can see from a town point of view. PIKA PI is in his own lil towntunnel world hoping for glory that ISNT COMIN BITCHES, ABR is town for baiting that nachokill last night as I mentioned, and I don't think he'd be so blatant as to say "is that a gambit Fate?" when he saw two TOWN people claiming mason, because that would be a scumslip. (aka knowing we were both town, me and Hoopla).

I think that's everybody.

<3

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm all for a NS lynch.

Unvote, vote NS

[Fate]

I think we should consider the possibility the Fate is town.

I'm glad to see someone is capable of reading gambits (though if I'm an unevolved version of you that isn't really fair).

Lead them to victory ABR. As it stands you're likely to get lynched by Hoopla today by sheer virtue of being the only person I'd trust the rest of my "scumteam's" win to, and I won't stand for it.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Hey I'm glad you caught that btw

[Fate]

/grin